"Self-hosting is the practice of running a website or service on a home server instead of a web hosting service outside of the administrator's own control."
And then basically contradicts itself in the next paragraph:
"The practice of self-hosting web services became more feasible with the development of cloud computing and virtualization technologies, which enabled users to run their own servers on remote hardware or virtual machines."
In any case, I think the generally accepted definition of self-hosting has expanded over the years to include software that you're running on rented hardware in someone else's data center.
I think the opposite. 20 years ago self hosting almost always meant "in a data centre" but as home internet got better people started to think "or maybe in my basement" and now it's swung so far that a few think if it's not in your basement it's not self hosting
I only use Wikipedia occasionally but this is seriously the worst article I've ever seen. It switches the definition between "running on my own hardware" and "running it in the cloud" multiple times. It's been pointed out in a discussion about the article several months ago but nobody bothered to correct it.
I would define hosting in the cloud as "self-hosting" because you perform the act of hosting that thing and thus have full control over it.
Yes it's not the same as hosting as your own hardware but I would argue that it accomplishes the same goals. The goal is to get other people out of your data. With a "service" the underlying company has every incentive to look at your data and use that to improve it's service, but when you host something yourself with a provider, it's in that providers best interest to never look at your data.
For me it all comes down to the goals of the people your are doing business with. With Cloudflare at least, their goal is to just upsell me on hosting equipment, they couldn't give a rats ass what I'm hosting on that hardware so long it's not illegal.
It is confusing, I agree. IMO we should have "self-running" and "self-hosting". Self-running if I provide the hardware, self-hosting if I manage it. Or swap the term, still not sure but there is a difference between you are the one maintaining it and where does it run.
I gave it a second thought and I think terms should be "self-managed" - you manage it either locally or in cloud and "self-hosted" you host it locally. Idk "self-contained" doesn't click with me, to be fair.
I think the reality is the goal posts are shifting on owning your own data, and apps. The idea that self-hosted is not on your _own_ hardware is crazy to me.
Is it a "goal post" shift or an insidious confusion? Clouds can be regulated, guard-railed, censored, spied on. Since your local computer is also just "cloud," it too can be regulated. This makes the mental-model change: what used to be "my personal thing" now becomes "a thing in the common network". That's different; it represents different values.
I think it's a pretty clear line. Self hosted means you can run it locally in your home, using a saas platform or vps is just a convenience, not a requirement.
I think a VPS is acceptable because otherwise you just can't let the broader internet talk to you, then. The internet's structured that way.
I hope AI will push infra, including good-enough AI itself, dirt cheap, so that everyone has "good enough" software for themselves. Tailscale is a game changer in this regard but only the first step.
What about FOSS SaaS alternatives that are meant for team collab? Like Plane (Jira replacement). Does that have to be ran locally at home for it to be considered "self hosted"?
Self hosted means you host it yourself. I.e. you run the software. Running on your own home machine is definitely self-hosted. Hosting it on a VPS in some datacenter still is. Running it in a cloud platform somewhere is stretching it but I'd say that sill is. SaaS definitely is not self hosting even if the software is open source. The important part is that you're the one in control of the software.
I would describe it as externally hosted yet managed specifically because someone else is most likely, whether they admit to it or not, recording some sort of logs on my service and data and that is a choice that I do not own or, in some cases, have access to.
No, crazy would be owning the router and cables/satellites as well as producing your own power and having a manufacturing plant for hardware capable of running the software.
People have been running public websites off of the back of their ISPs since the 90s. I know a few today that are nothing but a Raspberry PI running Pocketbase.
It scales for the intended audience.
Self hosting doesn't mean you need to build the next AWS.
Careful with Cloudflare's "free" AI tier if you use paid workers. I was never able to get an answer on why I was billed for their confusing neuron usage for stuff that should have been covered under their usage limits. Their customer support just ignored my ticket. Apparently it's a known issue that they don't give a shit based on discussions in their support Discord.
Not disagreeing because I don’t know anything about this particular situation, but I think if you look at any company’s support discord, you will find that they don’t give a shit because of the sample bias. People whose problems they solved. Don’t end up there.
For all the people complaining this isn’t self hosted, it’s open source - it’s a relatively minor tweak to replace the AI calls to point to a local model server. Everything else runs locally via wrangler. It’s less than 20 minutes of work by hand, less than a minute to ask AI to do this.
It’s a weird complaint for people who supposedly like hacker culture.
Eh, it's the phrasing that's off-putting. Things that can be self hosted usually emphasize that first and top most, with a paid option being mentioned 2nd.
For those questioning (rightly) the "self-hosted" description, I suspect its a poorly-worded attempt to clarify there is no third-party requirement (eg. the repo is not cloudflare-owned) beyond your own cloudflare account.
Sometimes these "open source" services are a bit misleading as there is a coupling to the org providing them; I think the OP here just means there's nothing extra needed beyond whatever cloudflare commitment you already have.
"Hosted" is the term that describes an application running on someone else's hardware. As opposed to "self-hosted" which describes an application running on my own hardware. There's no need to invent new terms, just use the existing ones properly and this will prevent any confusion.
Durable Objects are the coolest thing I have seen in a while. Code and its data locked away together, frozen when not in use, but ready to go in milliseconds when a request comes in. They are so damn useful.
Claude suggested the same approach for something very similar I asked and ended up deploying and using.
Quite useful and snappy architecture (never used workers or durable objects).
Definitely not self-hosted but whatever, I think you got the msg from all other comments.
I built it without having a chatbot interface cause I don't see much of the point, like I didn't see the improvement in usefulness 5 years ago re "natural language" task creation a la todoist.
Did a side project on Workers and the self host test for me was whether I could run it off Cloudflare at all. Durable Objects and KV bindings meant no, so it was really just deploy it yourself.
Hi HN! I built Talorys, an open-source personal AI agent that runs entirely in your own Cloudflare account.
The idea came from wanting a personal AI assistant that I could own and control, without paying a monthly subscription or relying on someone else's hosted service.
Talorys uses Cloudflare Workers, Workers AI, Durable Objects, and Pages to provide:
AI chat with persistent memory and conversation history
Task, note, and project management
Scheduled reminders and recurring automations
A responsive web interface accessible from any device
Password-protected access with no signup or external accounts
One-command deployment: npx create-talorys@latest
Everything runs in your Cloudflare account. Your data stays under your control, and there's no telemetry or third-party backend operated by me.
It's designed to work within Cloudflare's free-tier limits for personal use. You don't need to manage a VPS, database server, or Docker containers.
The biggest challenge was making deployment simple enough that someone could set up their own AI assistant without manually configuring Cloudflare services.
The project is still early, and I'd love feedback from the HN community, especially on the architecture, security, and what would make a self-hosted personal AI agent genuinely useful.
This is a neat implementation, regardless of the argument over how it is hosted! There are a number of other systems along the same general lines, but for me the sticking point is that there is no good implementation equivalent to the Alexa devices scattered around my home (and RV!) that allow me to interact via speech. I'm working on one of those now in my copious spare time. (Yes, there are a bunch of rPi projects. Their rates of errors are unacceptably high.)
> without paying a monthly subscription or relying on someone else's hosted service.
But you are hosting it on Cloudflare? There is always a cost when running on someone else's platform that advertises itself as 'free-tier' and it can change at any moment.
I'm torn in situations like these, because OP is clearly furthering societal trends that are objectively harmful by watering down terminology like this.
It is snark, but it is immune-response snark and not petty snark.
One shouldn't crush them for it, as it might be driven by naivety, but soft politeness alone doesn't steer us away from harmful ideas.
Social friction caused by feeling stupid for saying something is an important tool if wielded with responsibility and not just swung for ego.
This might sound kinda crazy, but I define “self-hosted” as something that I host myself.
To me, "self-hosted" means, either I use a rented hardware or I use a purchased hardware.
If the software can be switched to a rented or purchased hardware (I do not want Cloudflare's offering) then it is "self-host-able" IMO.
I think there are open source Cloudflare alternative hosting software.
I would call that self configured, cloud hosted.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-hosting_(network)
That is a very poorly-written Wikipedia article.
The first sentence states:
"Self-hosting is the practice of running a website or service on a home server instead of a web hosting service outside of the administrator's own control."
And then basically contradicts itself in the next paragraph:
"The practice of self-hosting web services became more feasible with the development of cloud computing and virtualization technologies, which enabled users to run their own servers on remote hardware or virtual machines."
In any case, I think the generally accepted definition of self-hosting has expanded over the years to include software that you're running on rented hardware in someone else's data center.
I think the opposite. 20 years ago self hosting almost always meant "in a data centre" but as home internet got better people started to think "or maybe in my basement" and now it's swung so far that a few think if it's not in your basement it's not self hosting
I only use Wikipedia occasionally but this is seriously the worst article I've ever seen. It switches the definition between "running on my own hardware" and "running it in the cloud" multiple times. It's been pointed out in a discussion about the article several months ago but nobody bothered to correct it.
You can correct it
Yourself? In your brain?
I would define hosting in the cloud as "self-hosting" because you perform the act of hosting that thing and thus have full control over it.
Yes it's not the same as hosting as your own hardware but I would argue that it accomplishes the same goals. The goal is to get other people out of your data. With a "service" the underlying company has every incentive to look at your data and use that to improve it's service, but when you host something yourself with a provider, it's in that providers best interest to never look at your data.
For me it all comes down to the goals of the people your are doing business with. With Cloudflare at least, their goal is to just upsell me on hosting equipment, they couldn't give a rats ass what I'm hosting on that hardware so long it's not illegal.
Can “on-prem” solve this debate?
You can self-host on-prem or in the cloud.
This makes sense. You can self-host on-prem or host in the cloud. Easy and intuitive.
It is confusing, I agree. IMO we should have "self-running" and "self-hosting". Self-running if I provide the hardware, self-hosting if I manage it. Or swap the term, still not sure but there is a difference between you are the one maintaining it and where does it run.
Self-hosting is when you install and run something for yourself.
Whether you use the cloud, or a vps, or a dedicated bare metal server, or your own equipment at home is all self hosting.
“Self contained”? Like a container, run on Cloudflare, run locally, run anywhere (if supported by the container and required underlying primitives).
I gave it a second thought and I think terms should be "self-managed" - you manage it either locally or in cloud and "self-hosted" you host it locally. Idk "self-contained" doesn't click with me, to be fair.
All he had to do was to title it properly: 'An AI agent hosted on Cloudflare's free tier'.
I think the reality is the goal posts are shifting on owning your own data, and apps. The idea that self-hosted is not on your _own_ hardware is crazy to me.
Is it a "goal post" shift or an insidious confusion? Clouds can be regulated, guard-railed, censored, spied on. Since your local computer is also just "cloud," it too can be regulated. This makes the mental-model change: what used to be "my personal thing" now becomes "a thing in the common network". That's different; it represents different values.
Where do you draw the line? Some SaaS acceptable? VPS? Bare metal? Or your own server in your own home?
I think it's a pretty clear line. Self hosted means you can run it locally in your home, using a saas platform or vps is just a convenience, not a requirement.
I think a VPS is acceptable because otherwise you just can't let the broader internet talk to you, then. The internet's structured that way.
I hope AI will push infra, including good-enough AI itself, dirt cheap, so that everyone has "good enough" software for themselves. Tailscale is a game changer in this regard but only the first step.
What about FOSS SaaS alternatives that are meant for team collab? Like Plane (Jira replacement). Does that have to be ran locally at home for it to be considered "self hosted"?
Self hosted means you host it yourself. I.e. you run the software. Running on your own home machine is definitely self-hosted. Hosting it on a VPS in some datacenter still is. Running it in a cloud platform somewhere is stretching it but I'd say that sill is. SaaS definitely is not self hosting even if the software is open source. The important part is that you're the one in control of the software.
I think the line is obvious... If you can't unplug it, you're not self-hosting.
I would personally draw the line a the data centres. If your infrastructure involves data centres, this is not self hosting. In my opinion.
You should have the option to host it at home. Then you may choose to host in a vps. Must be vendor agnostic.
Agreed, in my mind it’s where the developer can’t unilaterally change your installation.
IMO physical hardware in your own material possession, so only the last of your examples.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-hosting_(network)
I agree.
I would describe it as externally hosted yet managed specifically because someone else is most likely, whether they admit to it or not, recording some sort of logs on my service and data and that is a choice that I do not own or, in some cases, have access to.
honestly the fact that Cloudflare pays for infra instead of you is even more impressive ngl
As impressive as Facebook paying for your social media experience.
No, crazy would be owning the router and cables/satellites as well as producing your own power and having a manufacturing plant for hardware capable of running the software.
To make an apple pie from scratch, one must first create the universe?
People have been running public websites off of the back of their ISPs since the 90s. I know a few today that are nothing but a Raspberry PI running Pocketbase.
It scales for the intended audience.
Self hosting doesn't mean you need to build the next AWS.
I think op is thinking about local.
So am I
Is this an Elon reference?
Careful with Cloudflare's "free" AI tier if you use paid workers. I was never able to get an answer on why I was billed for their confusing neuron usage for stuff that should have been covered under their usage limits. Their customer support just ignored my ticket. Apparently it's a known issue that they don't give a shit based on discussions in their support Discord.
You should put anything like this on a privacy.com card with a monthly limit.
I got my bill reversed after having an AI agent pester them long enough
was the ai agent running on their free tier
Not disagreeing because I don’t know anything about this particular situation, but I think if you look at any company’s support discord, you will find that they don’t give a shit because of the sample bias. People whose problems they solved. Don’t end up there.
Only if the support discord isn't actually for support and just for venting, which seems to be the case for Cloudflare's.
For all the people complaining this isn’t self hosted, it’s open source - it’s a relatively minor tweak to replace the AI calls to point to a local model server. Everything else runs locally via wrangler. It’s less than 20 minutes of work by hand, less than a minute to ask AI to do this.
It’s a weird complaint for people who supposedly like hacker culture.
Yeah completely agree. Jeez someone made something cool.
It’s self hosted as in not by an ai provider. This is obvious.
Sure it’s set up to run on some infrastructure but just tweak it if you want to and stop complaining.
Eh, it's the phrasing that's off-putting. Things that can be self hosted usually emphasize that first and top most, with a paid option being mentioned 2nd.
For those questioning (rightly) the "self-hosted" description, I suspect its a poorly-worded attempt to clarify there is no third-party requirement (eg. the repo is not cloudflare-owned) beyond your own cloudflare account.
Sometimes these "open source" services are a bit misleading as there is a coupling to the org providing them; I think the OP here just means there's nothing extra needed beyond whatever cloudflare commitment you already have.
"Hosted" is the term that describes an application running on someone else's hardware. As opposed to "self-hosted" which describes an application running on my own hardware. There's no need to invent new terms, just use the existing ones properly and this will prevent any confusion.
"Self-managed" seems the better term.
I'm not sure I understand the use-case or target audience for this. Selfhosted on cloudflare is a great oxymoron though.
Unless you use cloudflare tunnel to host it
Durable Objects are the coolest thing I have seen in a while. Code and its data locked away together, frozen when not in use, but ready to go in milliseconds when a request comes in. They are so damn useful.
Claude suggested the same approach for something very similar I asked and ended up deploying and using. Quite useful and snappy architecture (never used workers or durable objects). Definitely not self-hosted but whatever, I think you got the msg from all other comments.
I built it without having a chatbot interface cause I don't see much of the point, like I didn't see the improvement in usefulness 5 years ago re "natural language" task creation a la todoist.
There's nothing self-hosted about relying on Cloudflare for _literally_ everything.
Sure, but this is a free thing for some to play around with. Nothing literal, reliant or histrionic about it. :)
Call it "A free personal AI agent" if "free" is what you care about, self-hosted doesn't imply free nor vice-versa.
Agreed. Better yet, call it "free (as in beer)" to distinguish from the other meaning of free when talking about software :-)
This is the first I’m hearing about Cloudflare’s worker AI product. I see they provide 10,000 neurons a day on the free tier. What on earth is that?
10k neuron is roughly 0.11 USD for the usage https://developers.cloudflare.com/workers-ai/platform/pricin...
Looks like it's about 4M input tokens or 0.5M output tokens with their cheapest model `@cf/meta/llama-3.2-1b-instruct`
With `@cf/qwen/qwen3.8-27b` it's 240K input tokens and 34,000 output tokens
A fantasy currency like in shitty mobile games to obfuscate the actual amount of money spent.
Did a side project on Workers and the self host test for me was whether I could run it off Cloudflare at all. Durable Objects and KV bindings meant no, so it was really just deploy it yourself.
Cloudflare worker AI is verrrrry slow for user interactive use cases. Fine for background jobs or evals.
In any case, I think the generally accepted definition of self-hosting has broadened
Used to be broader. Some people wish to narrow it
all of the people disagreeing in this thread are evidence to the contrary
> Your personal AI agent. Your own cloud.
Sorry, I don't own any cloud.
FYI. Give Claude a cf key. Done. All work is now a prompt.
Hi HN! I built Talorys, an open-source personal AI agent that runs entirely in your own Cloudflare account.
The idea came from wanting a personal AI assistant that I could own and control, without paying a monthly subscription or relying on someone else's hosted service.
Talorys uses Cloudflare Workers, Workers AI, Durable Objects, and Pages to provide:
AI chat with persistent memory and conversation history Task, note, and project management Scheduled reminders and recurring automations A responsive web interface accessible from any device Password-protected access with no signup or external accounts One-command deployment: npx create-talorys@latest Everything runs in your Cloudflare account. Your data stays under your control, and there's no telemetry or third-party backend operated by me.
It's designed to work within Cloudflare's free-tier limits for personal use. You don't need to manage a VPS, database server, or Docker containers.
The biggest challenge was making deployment simple enough that someone could set up their own AI assistant without manually configuring Cloudflare services.
The project is still early, and I'd love feedback from the HN community, especially on the architecture, security, and what would make a self-hosted personal AI agent genuinely useful.
GitHub: https://github.com/rociiu/talorys
It's MIT licensed. Contributions and suggestions are welcome!
A suggestion: write the reader yourself next time you’re launching a product/project. It’s painful to always be reading this Claudeish prose.
This is a neat implementation, regardless of the argument over how it is hosted! There are a number of other systems along the same general lines, but for me the sticking point is that there is no good implementation equivalent to the Alexa devices scattered around my home (and RV!) that allow me to interact via speech. I'm working on one of those now in my copious spare time. (Yes, there are a bunch of rPi projects. Their rates of errors are unacceptably high.)
This is a neat idea, but I wouldn’t say you aren’t relying on someone else's hosted service. Cloudflare isn’t a public utility quite yet.
So instead of relying on someone's hosted service, this is relying on someone's 4 hosted services?
> without paying a monthly subscription or relying on someone else's hosted service.
But you are hosting it on Cloudflare? There is always a cost when running on someone else's platform that advertises itself as 'free-tier' and it can change at any moment.
That’s great! Where do I download cloudflare?
> Be kind. Don't be snarky. Converse curiously; don't cross-examine.
https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
I'm torn in situations like these, because OP is clearly furthering societal trends that are objectively harmful by watering down terminology like this.
It is snark, but it is immune-response snark and not petty snark.
One shouldn't crush them for it, as it might be driven by naivety, but soft politeness alone doesn't steer us away from harmful ideas.
Social friction caused by feeling stupid for saying something is an important tool if wielded with responsibility and not just swung for ego.
Rebuild it with swarm of agents in rust
Except for Workers AI, I don't see any reason this wouldn't run on celld.
from the internet
Can't. Clouflare is MitM-ing large parts of the internet and denying service with their shitty captachas.