What Apple software has not / cannot be reverse engineered?
Runtime modification and replacement is limited by hardware root of trust, but for sheer source inspection I don’t think they’re special. What products are you thinking about?
As a long-time RE this does not surprise me. It feels like an eternity ago that the MCPs for various reverse engineering tools dropped, but from the onset it seemed like a perfect fit. While we've had ML-assisted solutions before, nothing of this scale comes close, and as the recent Linux kernel presentation mentioned, a lot of it boils down to a massive effort-by-exhaustion and pattern-matching. This is the golden road for RE - if you know your compiler versions, processor arch, and you have something trained on countless permutations of different complexities, you're going to hit the right notes.
Yesterday's news on the mathematics breakthroughs were a foregone conclusion - there is a lot of hidden overlap between it and RE. RE is just the more obscure of the two, but among my circle of peers, many people have already undertaken (and succeeded) at very ambitious projects. Obvious standouts are things like Modern Warfare which gets mentioned because it is highly popular, but many games have already been reversed by the quiet majority.
I don't see many options for PS/Nintendo. Some form of bespoke-hardware-based lockdown reminiscent of the Cell processor, perhaps. But that is a lot of R&D to spend on something like this. Will have to wait and see.
So, what to make of this? Machines of the future or stochastic parrots? Of course. I'll take two.
Is there still a market for physical media? I assume they're transitioning to download-only because it costs more and most customers prefer downloads anyway.
Article is wrong about one point, Wolverine is perfectly playable on 13.60 jailbreak. Currently, there are no unsupported titles with jailbreak.
The upcoming GTA VI announced that it will require the latest software to be playable.
Usually you could overcome simple version checks with a little reverse engineering / live debugging. However, I'm certain with Sony being on notice, they'll probably introduce a bunch of breaking APIs in the coming versions (existing APIs will start behaving differently, might introduce more server checks - worse still, some game/PS5 logic lives on the server). More work for game developers.
I miss the old days of the PS1 where you got a chip fitted into the machine and then used a spring so it would still boot up when the lid was open.
And you could cheat with games by plugging Action Replay or Gameshark into the serial port which basically just fucked with the game's memory. I don't even know what the serial port was actually meant for.
You short pins on the right joycon connection at boot time to enter recovery control mode in the boot firmware which (via an unpatchable exploit) gives you full access to the hardware IIRC.
(I presume the picofly & similar devices are just doing this automatically so you can boot the hardware under user control without requiring other hardware to make the exploit work?)
Unpatched v1 models can be softmodded no hardware modding (picofly) needed. For those you only need to enter the recovery mode which can be done with a paperclip > sorting the pins on the right joycon rail. Though it's also not recommended because you can fry the whole Switch with the paperclip. Nowadays people use 3D printed cheap RCM jigs.
This is not like the PS3 generation where the Cell processors had massive untapped potential, and were priced well below market for that kind of compute.
The PS5 (and its Xbox counterpart) is more-or-less just a modern budget gaming PC with a little bit of special sauce. The only advantage here is that component pricing may have been locked in before the RAM crisis.
CPU is a rather weak Zen2. If that still appeals to you, instead purchase a BC-250 mining board. It's a PS5 reject and nearly all of them can be fully unlocked for all 40CUs and 8 CPU cores. They are quite popular right now for building Steam Machines and all the hacking has been done with replacement BIOS mods.
Not worth it. It's basically a knee capped Ryzen 3700X with less cache. You can get a better CPU for less money. The GPU performance is still alright but it's not good at non-gaming tasks as it lacks cores for ML tasks.
Beware that you need a hypervisor exploit to run Linux. And these are incredibly rare. But, there was one patched very recently on firmware version 14.10
It is indeed a good time. Latest firmware patched the recent exploit, but most or all boxed PS5s in stores should still be on old enough firmware. This will not be true forever. Beware of used units since they could've been updated already.
Wouldn't make much sense since hardware-wise you're very much paying for the GPU power and not CPU power, which isn't gonna help you much at compiling.
This quote has been taken too far out of context from the original talk, which is worth viewing.
He was saying that piracy can be reduced by making the product easily available. When it was easier to download a pirated version from home than to drive to the store and back and unwrap a physical CD, piracy was easier.
That is not true today. The easiest path is to buy the game digitally through the service on the device and play it directly. Pirating it is more work and harder to do.
So quoting Gabe Newell in support is wrong. Saying it’s a service problem is also wrong when the piracy route takes a lot more work. The goalposts keep moving around (and I’m sure they’ll move more in the replies) but we have to eventually admit that a lot of pirates are pirating because they don’t want to pay for the game. It’s the most obvious fact on this topic but the comments are always full of mental gymnastics pretending the pirates are noble people doing the right thing.
> He was saying that piracy can be reduced by making the product easily available. When it was easier to download a pirated version from home than to drive to the store and back and unwrap a physical CD, piracy was easier.
Could've sworn the original context was that he was referring to Russian piracy, where many of the games are not available there legally at the time, leaving piracy as the only recourse.
I will give you an example. Try to find the DLC's for the original Skyrim on Steam. Technically they exist, but Bethesda has requested Steam to delist them from the search and navigation. And they are not subject to the yearly discounts etc the base game is.
I think you're missing 2 factors in the service/distribution problem:
- pricing - for some kids some games are just too expensive, and they still want to play, and don't want to be left out;
- platform lock - this is more for emulation, where people don't want to buy a platform to play 1 or 2 IP;
I see Gabe's reference in both of those scenarios, because Steam always had good deals, while retailers didn't.
You might say: "in that case, some people are only willing to pay 0$ for a game, and they shouldn't have access to it."
While I understand it, I bet you a massive chunk of GTA V, RDR2, and soon GTA VI players that have available income now, had their first experiences with the series through piracy.
But I agree there's no nobility, just people that can't afford stuff, or don't value it enough to part with their money, but you can't assume they would be customers at the moment they get a copy.
Piracy is more “I don’t like the terms you’ve set.” Some terms are overbearing. Some are more reasonable. Both get pirated but at different rates. Some people just don’t like the idea of paying at all. Some people will pay onerous terms.
Gabes point is thay the balance of the two is overwhelmingly; yes some pirates will always pirate. Most win prefer to buy the game if the terms are reasonable. Being smart enough to undetstand this and run his business accordingly is why Gabe owns yachts.
So how is it now? Do they still play games or has it reduced? (Genuinely don't know the year on year market).
edit: I looked up some figures and the numbers had a brief dip in 2022 but are continually increasing since. So I would say, games are being played and rising still.
Of course and perfect example of that is the existential crisis of Hollywood. Video games aggressively outpace traditional cinema in revenue, cultural relevance, and audience time and Hollywood can't really do anything with that.
GTA V hit $1B in 3 days. GTA VI will be even bigger than that, arguably the biggest entertainmant product launch ever
Yeah, all software will be open source software real soon, whether their owners like it or not.
One hack in Anthropic is all it takes. They already have all the source code of each company in the world.
More like open-to-utilize-full-capacity in that case.
Not all software, obviously. Apple is notoriously good at producing "black box" products.
What Apple software has not / cannot be reverse engineered?
Runtime modification and replacement is limited by hardware root of trust, but for sheer source inspection I don’t think they’re special. What products are you thinking about?
Not OP, but macOS for ARM can only run on Apple hardware. Same for iOS.
I'd say that this has already been at least partially addressed with asahi linux
It's addressed running other OS's on Apple ARM, but not MacOS on generic ARM as the post you responded to mentioned.
Well, try to jailbreak iOS on iPhone version >X.
On PS5 it's done in couple of seconds.
Are they? This term jailbreak originated from people getting more access to iOS devices.
The iPhone hasn't been jailbroken since the iPhone 14
No need to jailbreak it when Claude can rewrite the whole stack in a matter of days.
As a long-time RE this does not surprise me. It feels like an eternity ago that the MCPs for various reverse engineering tools dropped, but from the onset it seemed like a perfect fit. While we've had ML-assisted solutions before, nothing of this scale comes close, and as the recent Linux kernel presentation mentioned, a lot of it boils down to a massive effort-by-exhaustion and pattern-matching. This is the golden road for RE - if you know your compiler versions, processor arch, and you have something trained on countless permutations of different complexities, you're going to hit the right notes.
Yesterday's news on the mathematics breakthroughs were a foregone conclusion - there is a lot of hidden overlap between it and RE. RE is just the more obscure of the two, but among my circle of peers, many people have already undertaken (and succeeded) at very ambitious projects. Obvious standouts are things like Modern Warfare which gets mentioned because it is highly popular, but many games have already been reversed by the quiet majority.
I don't see many options for PS/Nintendo. Some form of bespoke-hardware-based lockdown reminiscent of the Cell processor, perhaps. But that is a lot of R&D to spend on something like this. Will have to wait and see.
So, what to make of this? Machines of the future or stochastic parrots? Of course. I'll take two.
Don't poke the bear then by trying to change the definition of ownership and making games download only.
Is there still a market for physical media? I assume they're transitioning to download-only because it costs more and most customers prefer downloads anyway.
Sony was already planning to do that by ending disc production entirely
Perhaps it is us who is poking the bear, and games will become stream only!
Article is wrong about one point, Wolverine is perfectly playable on 13.60 jailbreak. Currently, there are no unsupported titles with jailbreak. The upcoming GTA VI announced that it will require the latest software to be playable.
Usually you could overcome simple version checks with a little reverse engineering / live debugging. However, I'm certain with Sony being on notice, they'll probably introduce a bunch of breaking APIs in the coming versions (existing APIs will start behaving differently, might introduce more server checks - worse still, some game/PS5 logic lives on the server). More work for game developers.
Works fine on my 13.00 console too FWIW
Can this happen to the Switch 2 please
They should really give you code execution with nothing but a paperclip like the original Switch models
I miss the old days of the PS1 where you got a chip fitted into the machine and then used a spring so it would still boot up when the lid was open.
And you could cheat with games by plugging Action Replay or Gameshark into the serial port which basically just fucked with the game's memory. I don't even know what the serial port was actually meant for.
> I don't even know what the serial port was actually meant for.
The rarely-used Playstation Link cable, ostensibly:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_Link_Cable
Never used it myself, but it allowed a really weird first-person multiplayer mode in Bushido Blade:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-obFMn_u3U4
Elaborate please; mine is in a limbo disassembled state since months because i'm too scared to install the picofly
You short pins on the right joycon connection at boot time to enter recovery control mode in the boot firmware which (via an unpatchable exploit) gives you full access to the hardware IIRC.
(I presume the picofly & similar devices are just doing this automatically so you can boot the hardware under user control without requiring other hardware to make the exploit work?)
Unpatched v1 models can be softmodded no hardware modding (picofly) needed. For those you only need to enter the recovery mode which can be done with a paperclip > sorting the pins on the right joycon rail. Though it's also not recommended because you can fry the whole Switch with the paperclip. Nowadays people use 3D printed cheap RCM jigs.
First models of the switch can be jailbroken by connecting pins accessible without disassembly (used to connect joycons), lookup switch jig RCM.
It will probably happen once the new Pokémon game releases. The most dedicated players really want their hacked monsters.
I'm not a gamer, but it makes me wonder if I should buy a PS5 for possibly some amazing non-gaming future use - maybe compiling software?
This is not like the PS3 generation where the Cell processors had massive untapped potential, and were priced well below market for that kind of compute.
The PS5 (and its Xbox counterpart) is more-or-less just a modern budget gaming PC with a little bit of special sauce. The only advantage here is that component pricing may have been locked in before the RAM crisis.
CPU is a rather weak Zen2. If that still appeals to you, instead purchase a BC-250 mining board. It's a PS5 reject and nearly all of them can be fully unlocked for all 40CUs and 8 CPU cores. They are quite popular right now for building Steam Machines and all the hacking has been done with replacement BIOS mods.
Not worth it. It's basically a knee capped Ryzen 3700X with less cache. You can get a better CPU for less money. The GPU performance is still alright but it's not good at non-gaming tasks as it lacks cores for ML tasks.
"Everyone" uses GPUs to run serious models anyway, so ML tasks are not a problem. Still not a great deal.
Nah you're better off just buying a PC. Gone are the days where you were getting amazing hardware for the price
Beware that you need a hypervisor exploit to run Linux. And these are incredibly rare. But, there was one patched very recently on firmware version 14.10
So, if you buy a PS5 now, you should be good
It is indeed a good time. Latest firmware patched the recent exploit, but most or all boxed PS5s in stores should still be on old enough firmware. This will not be true forever. Beware of used units since they could've been updated already.
Wouldn't make much sense since hardware-wise you're very much paying for the GPU power and not CPU power, which isn't gonna help you much at compiling.
Maybe telling people they don't own their games and your usage is subject to their whims wasn't the best idea.
"Piracy is a service problem" - Gabe Newell
> "Piracy is a service problem" - Gabe Newell
This quote has been taken too far out of context from the original talk, which is worth viewing.
He was saying that piracy can be reduced by making the product easily available. When it was easier to download a pirated version from home than to drive to the store and back and unwrap a physical CD, piracy was easier.
That is not true today. The easiest path is to buy the game digitally through the service on the device and play it directly. Pirating it is more work and harder to do.
So quoting Gabe Newell in support is wrong. Saying it’s a service problem is also wrong when the piracy route takes a lot more work. The goalposts keep moving around (and I’m sure they’ll move more in the replies) but we have to eventually admit that a lot of pirates are pirating because they don’t want to pay for the game. It’s the most obvious fact on this topic but the comments are always full of mental gymnastics pretending the pirates are noble people doing the right thing.
> He was saying that piracy can be reduced by making the product easily available. When it was easier to download a pirated version from home than to drive to the store and back and unwrap a physical CD, piracy was easier.
Could've sworn the original context was that he was referring to Russian piracy, where many of the games are not available there legally at the time, leaving piracy as the only recourse.
I will give you an example. Try to find the DLC's for the original Skyrim on Steam. Technically they exist, but Bethesda has requested Steam to delist them from the search and navigation. And they are not subject to the yearly discounts etc the base game is.
I think you're missing 2 factors in the service/distribution problem:
- pricing - for some kids some games are just too expensive, and they still want to play, and don't want to be left out;
- platform lock - this is more for emulation, where people don't want to buy a platform to play 1 or 2 IP;
I see Gabe's reference in both of those scenarios, because Steam always had good deals, while retailers didn't.
You might say: "in that case, some people are only willing to pay 0$ for a game, and they shouldn't have access to it."
While I understand it, I bet you a massive chunk of GTA V, RDR2, and soon GTA VI players that have available income now, had their first experiences with the series through piracy.
But I agree there's no nobility, just people that can't afford stuff, or don't value it enough to part with their money, but you can't assume they would be customers at the moment they get a copy.
Piracy is more “I don’t like the terms you’ve set.” Some terms are overbearing. Some are more reasonable. Both get pirated but at different rates. Some people just don’t like the idea of paying at all. Some people will pay onerous terms.
> Both get pirated but at different rates.
Gabes point is thay the balance of the two is overwhelmingly; yes some pirates will always pirate. Most win prefer to buy the game if the terms are reasonable. Being smart enough to undetstand this and run his business accordingly is why Gabe owns yachts.
There aren't really any games worth playing these days.
I'm hearing this since the early 90s when I started playing games but probably happened before too
So how is it now? Do they still play games or has it reduced? (Genuinely don't know the year on year market).
edit: I looked up some figures and the numbers had a brief dip in 2022 but are continually increasing since. So I would say, games are being played and rising still.
>Do they still play games or has it reduced
Of course and perfect example of that is the existential crisis of Hollywood. Video games aggressively outpace traditional cinema in revenue, cultural relevance, and audience time and Hollywood can't really do anything with that.
GTA V hit $1B in 3 days. GTA VI will be even bigger than that, arguably the biggest entertainmant product launch ever
Yeah, I’m old, it was a thing in the 80’s too.
Many multiplayer games are worth playing on PS5 because there is less cheating. Due to stronger software integrity protections. Oh...
If it gets opened up for Linux, other people might be interested.
Ace Combat 8 just came out bro