The biggest barrier to ending tipping in the USA is that restaurants are almost always over staffed there.
The owner wants the maximum ratio of servers to customers possible. In the typical USA system, being paid primarily in tips means the server is highly incentivized to upsell the customer as much as possible and do everything they can to increase the total bill, and therefor increase their tip. Essentially a commissioned sales person but the customer pays the commission.
This is the least efficient way to run a restaurant with regard to staffing.
European restaurants typically use a team service model, which greatly reduces the number of staff needed. Every front of house worker can take orders, make and serve drinks, run food to tables, etc. Instead of checking on the customer every few minutes they rely on the customer to ask if you need something. There is no pressure to run up the bill or clear out quickly in this model.
One of the biggest cultural differences - for Spain - is that servers are seen as equals, not as a client-provider relationship. This reflects heavily in the language often used - "when you can, bring me X". Just one of the quirks of a low gini coefficient society.
At least they don’t demand a bunch of extra tips. I’m European (well, Scandinavian, which some Europeans consider European and some don’t) and my rule of thumb is that if I go out I tip 10%.
If the service is extra good I might tip extra.
If the service is very bad (unreasonably slow, or staff forget or mix up the order in a significant way, or they are very rude), I tip 0%. Of course everyone can mess up things a little so it’s not like I immediately tip 0% just because of some minor thing. It has to be properly bad.
Also something I have learned from the Spanish is to always order something small and quick for the table even before we have decided what to eat. Then if it takes 40 minutes before the food comes it doesn’t matter that much compared to when you are starving for food. So this is a very neat trick that helps a lot to have a good experience even at slow places, and something I have started always doing.
I have to ask, why are you tipping 10% before the service is extra good? I'm really against the idea that the company isn't responsible for paying their staff properly.
Setting a baseline of 10% just says to me that the restaurant owners can just pay their staff less. And if the server is having an off day or just didn't meet your particular standards then they're losing money.
>European restaurants typically use a team service model,
American chain restaurants also use the team model. The server that writes down the order often isn't the same person bringing out the hot plates of food. Maybe less of team than Europe because the waitress taking the order will typically be the same one refilling the drinks.
It's the white tablecloth high-end restaurants where the one waiter is the only person handling all interactions with the table.
What you are describing is not team service because the server "owns" the customer and are the one who will collect the tip from that table.
What you are noticing is that many chains have a "full hands" rule: if any server with free hands walks past a table with dirty dishes on the way to the kitchen, they are expected to pick them up no mater who's section it is. Also, if they are heading out from the kitchen with free hands they are expected to run out some dishes no matter what table they are for.
> The biggest barrier to ending tipping in the USA is that restaurants are almost always over staffed there.
Part of this is that Americans want to be coddled and always want to feel like they are the king of the world. Greeters at Walmart, cashiers not being allowed to sit but have to stand for "respect", you can't tell them they're outright talking bullshit or they'll get offended, and god forbid they have to wait one fucking second to get noticed on their wish to order a beer.
Japan has a lot of the same things, but no tipping. Although the tradition of "checking in" to see if you need anything seems to not be very prevalent - instead people either press a button or call out for the staff if they need something.
LMFAO, have you ever been to a restaurant in Europe? The service is horrific. Sit down and wait 15 minutes for the menus, another 15 to place a drink order, another 10 for the drinks to get there, another 10 to place food order. Now you finish the meal, good luck getting the waiters attention to bring the check. European dining is the worst, every time I am back stateside I feel like im being waited on in the white house or something fancy.
I could say the same about US restaurants. I want to socialise with the people I'm sharing the meal with, not some random waiter. The servers are constantly interrupting, ruining the mood and you feel unwelcome like they want to get you out the door the moment your plate is empty (because that's exactly what they want). It's like being on a conveyor belt.
I've been in hundreds of not fancy restaurants across Europe in my life, in many countries. The service speed in like 95% of all cases is at maximum or vary close to it. It's between 0 to 1-2 minutes to get menu, then 0 to 1-2 minute to flag a waiter and order, and that all delays possibly induced by the serving staff. The rest is just how long it takes to cook and is not relevant here. So maybe USA shaves off a few tens of seconds of that, and pays for that with tens of dollars per visit plus suffers an annoying questions all the time, while I'm eating. No thanks.
Maybe you guys like your USA service model. Maybe Europeans are mistaken about USA service model. But one thing is certain - you USA guys have zero idea about speed of service on average in European cafes and restaurants, judging by your comments :) .
If you're upset that you wait then maybe something like McDonald's would be better for you. When you go out to eat, you're also going out to socialize and enjoy your time.
I live in half Europe for the past 15 years and have been to more restaurants than I can count. Typical service is courteous and efficient. Of course there are outliers, too.
Repeat business is rewarded like in most places. I frequent many cafes and restaurants where I'm recognized and treated like family even though I have never once tipped there.
Ah much generalisation. Europe is over 40 countries with vast differences in quality of service and restaurant culture. I have been to restaurants in many European countries and the only generalisation I can make is that tip culture does not exist in Europe.
Not sure which destinations you're eating in, but as someone who lives in "Europe", that's not been a regular occurrence at all. Generally, the waiting times are not so long and service is reasonable. There are of course experiences at both end of the spectrum. I've walked out of a Vienna cafe once because I waited 20 minutes for someone to bring the bill. Three steps out the door the waiter chased me down and I paid the bill. Problem solved. However, I've also been in situations where I us want the wait-staff to bugger off and let me enjoy my meal and conversation in peace. Usually, the service is somewhere in between.
> the problem of going tip-free is that customers struggle to get their heads around the maths.
Maybe they should show the price "without tip" next to the full price, so people can compare.
Paying employees with tips is an insane concept, fundamentally abusive. If it wasn't, then the owner would also get paid from tips. "The meals are all free, and we count on you to pay them through tips". Obviously no owner would take that risk, because it is insane. They make their employees take that risk because they can abuse them, that's all.
I grew up in a restaurant in the US. Tipping is a counterintuitive evolution in wages, I’ll probably dig in more.
Anecdotally, a waitress could easily earn more than minimum wage during a shift. Sometimes easy clearing $100 when minimum wage was $7/hr (it was $2.15/hr for wait staff). Add to that the tip reporting was lax and no there’s no tax on tips, waiting is on par with minimum wage.
An interesting side effect is that adding waitstaff is marginal cost to an operator.
We need to at least normalize not tipping for counter service. Given the current wage structures and labor laws in the US and Canada, if I sit down at a table and I receive table service, I'm going to tip 15% unless the service was abhorrent.
I am not going to tip if I order and take my food from a counter and serve myself (and then almost certainly clear my own table as well), or I buy any other form of product standing up. Basically, if I'm standing for the entire customer service transaction, it's not tippable.
Good service is mostly invisible. Courses paced to how you're eating, not fired all at once or giving you 20 minute gaps between mains. Drinks refilled, plates cleared without asking. Reading the room and knowing when I want to chat or be left alone. Staff that know what their serving, whats in it, how it's cooked, what wine pairs well, etc.
That's a good question. Good service is something important to the overall dining experience, so much so, higher end places regard the "maître d'hôtel" aka the service/restaurant manager equal to the chef.
Great service is generally about "reading your mind": e.g. providing you with a replacement fork that you dropped without you needing to ask. Also, coordinating that "timing" you are after, perfectly. Good service is attentive without being overly present. If you ever ate somewhere in a sitdown restaurant and thought after "wow that was a great meal", service contributed to that.
I'm not saying they're right to do so, but it sounds like their intuition was honed well if they pegged you correctly during your faux-pas era? Fascinating, wonder what the tell was.
To be honest they are paid a full salary. Tipped wage does not preclude the minimum wage. In addition there are many states like CA that do not have a tipped wage.
Actually not. In my state and others, when a business is designated as accepting tips, the workers can be paid less than minimum wage, while expecting that the tips they collect will make up for it.
So it’s really a way to extort good tips from customers, because it’s understood that our gratuities are the only way they can make minimum wage!
> As a foreigner in the US, I've made the faux-pas of assuming waiters and waitresses were being paid a full salary by their employer.
This depends on the state. For example, in California, servers get state minimum wage, at least ($16.90/hour). On the other hand, most "red" states use the federal minimums: $2.13/hour for servers (!) and $7.25/hour for non-tipped employees.
Threatening assault on a paying customer for not knowing tipping norms is just one of the many reasons why American society is in the state it is. I've seen similar things like 'be glad I didn't spit in your food', 'next time they are getting trouser food'. This is despicable.
We're going in the other direction. In Seattle it's common for restaurants to tack on an extra "service charge" that's not a tip, just because. It's supposed to be declared somewhere.
Interesting. What POS terminals are common there? I am curious about culture spreading through technology defaults and wonder if it's effectively driven by whatever Square chose and whomever else decided to ape the incumbent or whatever.
You them everywhere. Most insane are the bars where you have to walk up to the bar to order, the bartender plops the drinks on the bar and immediately moves on to another customer, and the terminal still displays default tip amounts and you have to do custom → €0. What the hell am I tipping you for?
At this point I'm waiting for supermarket self-checkout to add a default tip amount.
I don't think square supports slovenia for now, but POS vedors add the tip option, and our restaurant owners enable it, because it doesn't cost them anything, any many (especially foreign) guests "feel bad" for choosing the zero on the screen.
Unless it's a bottle deposit tax, then it gets added outside the advertised price ;) 2 Euro bottle of Coke, great, I have 2 euro left, pay 2 euro 20 please... Fawwwwwkkkkkkkkk
yeah, this one also gets to my bones. and then you cant return every deposit-taxed bottle everywhere - but only in stores where it's sold. then some friends leave bottles at your place which you cannot return anywhere near... what a mess
I am french, living in the US: yes, service is always included in France, but service is usually not that good. At least, definitely not as good as in the US.
I spend about equal time in the USA and split between France, Germany, and The Netherlands.
Personally, I find the service in USA restaurants to be obnoxious, overly fake, and disruptive. I generally only go out to eat in Europe because I prefer a peaceful meal rather than a rushed one with a side of fake friendship.
Japan is amazing in some places, that you can order with a tablet apps then you pick up your food yourself when it arrived. Very minimum interaction and employees needed.
The market works better in China: Competition is fierce and nowadays with online reviews most restaurants are so scared of a bad review that they go the extra mile and staff go all out as soon as you raise a slight concern.
This is a problem for the employer and for the selection and remuneration of staff (at all levels of the chain and not just those in contact with the customer)
If the price increase is actually linked to higher wages for the staff, there should be no increase in taxable revenue for the restaurant, because the wages are deductible expenses. But there is still the matter of sales tax (paid by the customer), and the tax payable by the employee on their wages (not sure if tips are technically taxable income already, but regardless, you can bet most staff aren't paying taxes on them).
They used to be taxable income, but now thanks to Trump’s “no tax on tips” campaign promise they aren’t. Effectively nobody paid taxes on cash tips anyway, but nowadays cash tips are relatively rare and credit card tips definitely show up on paystubs/W2s.
From old family stories, I figure the real reason for tipping service workers is that both employers and customers want there to be plenty of service workers available - but the demand for their labor (restaurant customers, whatever) is very unpredictable compared to factory, farm, or gov't work. And service industries can't afford to keep a lot of idle workers around at full pay. So tipping is a simple revenue-sharing scheme, wrapped in social niceties, that boosts/cuts the service workers' income based on whether business is currently fast or slow.
I hate that some workers depend on tips and that creates an obligation on me, but I do like to tip because I know how great it feels to get one. At work I sometimes get a bonus and what’s that if not a tip?
I benefit too. It’s a way for me to express gratitude.
I am against the popular opinion and I actually tip if the hotel is somewhat cheap (ie food does not cost a small fortune). I do it out of selfish reasons. When I order chicken, I want them to bring me a good piece. Or if I order Porotta, I want them to bring me the most fresh one.
Or sometimes when I get a very tasty meal, I just tip them to share them some of the happiness that they brought me. But totally depends on how strapped for cash I currently am...
Any recommendations for tipping in India? (Amounts etc) I was warned against tipping too much by locals who worried it could distort local economies toward tourists and away from local people.
I usually do like something between 30-50 Rs (around 10% of the cost of food). It is not a lot, but I don't think anyone would expect to be tipped more than that..
I think you'd be very surprised to learn that in a lot of cases, tipping pays much better than whatever a "reasonable" hourly wage for taking an order and carrying food to a table would be. If you're serving three tables that each have $100 checks and you get at 15% tip, that's $45/hour... yes it may average out higher or lower but you're not gonna like how much eating out costs if employers are expected to pay the higher end of what a server can make (spoiler: waiters will demand that).
A famous recent example, the South Park guys bought a restaurant and eliminated tips with a very nice $30/hour wage. Seems pretty good, doesn't it?
Guess what? The waiters demanded a return to tipping[0]!
Tipping is a weird phenomenon that's only an issue in the Americas. I have traveled extensively all over Asia and even the same chain/restaurants which are US based don't actually have the concept of tipping. Sure, you can always tip if you want. However, the issue with tipping culture is the blatant entitlement. I always tell rude waiters who literally demand tips for shitty services this:
A tip is a token of gratitude, should the customer choose to offer. It is not an entitlement.
I get it, their wages aren't great. However, that is a discussion to be had with their employer, not me.
Of course, I want them to get paid a fair wage too - the only way to fight against this culture is taking a stand against tipping. If enough people don't tip, hopefully the restaurant will struggle to find staff and eventually - either close down or increase the wages. But, don't try to run a restaurant when you clearly can't afford to pay your staff a decent wage. That's just running a business on hopes and dreams. It's not my job to subsidize your poor financial and business planning.
It's insane how it takes advantage of good people who feel like they're doing something wrong for hitting "no tip" in settings where nobody was asked to tip just 5-10 years ago.
On the other hand, lots of people have the liberating experience of discovering that "no tip" is a sensible default to press, and from then on we're out of the tipping game. Bots don't guilt trip me anymore, hooray!
Flip the script, you're a greedy ASSHOLE for asking people to tip in this economy! Now it becomes easier to hit 0 tip. Even try negative tip, some devices allow this bug.
These are reasonable prices for a place much cheaper than SFO. This is what people pay in Eastern Europe. 2500 CZK for a set - around $120 - won't be at all surprising or perceived as high in Prague, for instance. It can go up to 8000 or so.
The biggest barrier to ending tipping in the USA is that restaurants are almost always over staffed there.
The owner wants the maximum ratio of servers to customers possible. In the typical USA system, being paid primarily in tips means the server is highly incentivized to upsell the customer as much as possible and do everything they can to increase the total bill, and therefor increase their tip. Essentially a commissioned sales person but the customer pays the commission.
This is the least efficient way to run a restaurant with regard to staffing.
European restaurants typically use a team service model, which greatly reduces the number of staff needed. Every front of house worker can take orders, make and serve drinks, run food to tables, etc. Instead of checking on the customer every few minutes they rely on the customer to ask if you need something. There is no pressure to run up the bill or clear out quickly in this model.
It depends and also is culture based. In Spain you can find some places (eg coffee place) with 1-2 workers.
Sometimes it takes a lot of time to get your order at rush hours, but the culture tolerates patience and waiting.
One of the biggest cultural differences - for Spain - is that servers are seen as equals, not as a client-provider relationship. This reflects heavily in the language often used - "when you can, bring me X". Just one of the quirks of a low gini coefficient society.
At least they don’t demand a bunch of extra tips. I’m European (well, Scandinavian, which some Europeans consider European and some don’t) and my rule of thumb is that if I go out I tip 10%.
If the service is extra good I might tip extra.
If the service is very bad (unreasonably slow, or staff forget or mix up the order in a significant way, or they are very rude), I tip 0%. Of course everyone can mess up things a little so it’s not like I immediately tip 0% just because of some minor thing. It has to be properly bad.
Also something I have learned from the Spanish is to always order something small and quick for the table even before we have decided what to eat. Then if it takes 40 minutes before the food comes it doesn’t matter that much compared to when you are starving for food. So this is a very neat trick that helps a lot to have a good experience even at slow places, and something I have started always doing.
I have to ask, why are you tipping 10% before the service is extra good? I'm really against the idea that the company isn't responsible for paying their staff properly.
Setting a baseline of 10% just says to me that the restaurant owners can just pay their staff less. And if the server is having an off day or just didn't meet your particular standards then they're losing money.
Is that why US service ("checking on the customer every few minutes") is so incredibly annoying...
> The biggest barrier to ending tipping in the USA is that restaurants are almost always over staffed there.
Are you sure? I've seen way more staff shortages in real life restaurants over the past 5-6 years than any other time in my life.
>European restaurants typically use a team service model,
American chain restaurants also use the team model. The server that writes down the order often isn't the same person bringing out the hot plates of food. Maybe less of team than Europe because the waitress taking the order will typically be the same one refilling the drinks.
It's the white tablecloth high-end restaurants where the one waiter is the only person handling all interactions with the table.
What you are describing is not team service because the server "owns" the customer and are the one who will collect the tip from that table.
What you are noticing is that many chains have a "full hands" rule: if any server with free hands walks past a table with dirty dishes on the way to the kitchen, they are expected to pick them up no mater who's section it is. Also, if they are heading out from the kitchen with free hands they are expected to run out some dishes no matter what table they are for.
Plus customers don't need to pretend to be interested/impressed when they stand there and recite the 'specials' menu
> The biggest barrier to ending tipping in the USA is that restaurants are almost always over staffed there.
Part of this is that Americans want to be coddled and always want to feel like they are the king of the world. Greeters at Walmart, cashiers not being allowed to sit but have to stand for "respect", you can't tell them they're outright talking bullshit or they'll get offended, and god forbid they have to wait one fucking second to get noticed on their wish to order a beer.
Japan has a lot of the same things, but no tipping. Although the tradition of "checking in" to see if you need anything seems to not be very prevalent - instead people either press a button or call out for the staff if they need something.
LMFAO, have you ever been to a restaurant in Europe? The service is horrific. Sit down and wait 15 minutes for the menus, another 15 to place a drink order, another 10 for the drinks to get there, another 10 to place food order. Now you finish the meal, good luck getting the waiters attention to bring the check. European dining is the worst, every time I am back stateside I feel like im being waited on in the white house or something fancy.
I could say the same about US restaurants. I want to socialise with the people I'm sharing the meal with, not some random waiter. The servers are constantly interrupting, ruining the mood and you feel unwelcome like they want to get you out the door the moment your plate is empty (because that's exactly what they want). It's like being on a conveyor belt.
I've been in hundreds of not fancy restaurants across Europe in my life, in many countries. The service speed in like 95% of all cases is at maximum or vary close to it. It's between 0 to 1-2 minutes to get menu, then 0 to 1-2 minute to flag a waiter and order, and that all delays possibly induced by the serving staff. The rest is just how long it takes to cook and is not relevant here. So maybe USA shaves off a few tens of seconds of that, and pays for that with tens of dollars per visit plus suffers an annoying questions all the time, while I'm eating. No thanks.
Maybe you guys like your USA service model. Maybe Europeans are mistaken about USA service model. But one thing is certain - you USA guys have zero idea about speed of service on average in European cafes and restaurants, judging by your comments :) .
It happens, but rarely this bad, as they would lose customers.
Some extremely touristic areas can get away with anything.
If you're upset that you wait then maybe something like McDonald's would be better for you. When you go out to eat, you're also going out to socialize and enjoy your time.
Have you tried eating out while not in a rush?
I live in half Europe for the past 15 years and have been to more restaurants than I can count. Typical service is courteous and efficient. Of course there are outliers, too.
Repeat business is rewarded like in most places. I frequent many cafes and restaurants where I'm recognized and treated like family even though I have never once tipped there.
Ah much generalisation. Europe is over 40 countries with vast differences in quality of service and restaurant culture. I have been to restaurants in many European countries and the only generalisation I can make is that tip culture does not exist in Europe.
Not sure which destinations you're eating in, but as someone who lives in "Europe", that's not been a regular occurrence at all. Generally, the waiting times are not so long and service is reasonable. There are of course experiences at both end of the spectrum. I've walked out of a Vienna cafe once because I waited 20 minutes for someone to bring the bill. Three steps out the door the waiter chased me down and I paid the bill. Problem solved. However, I've also been in situations where I us want the wait-staff to bugger off and let me enjoy my meal and conversation in peace. Usually, the service is somewhere in between.
It seems your expectations are very mismatched. Most restaurants operate because people go there occasionally and relax and socialize.
If you just want a quick meal there's more than enough places but you generally order at the counter there, don't sit and wait for a server.
> European dining is the worst
Europe has 40+ countries with what, a million, restaurants… let’s conflate them all! Horrible! The whole continent! 1 star (and not a Michelin one)!
To be fair US states are like that, too.
> European dining is the worst, every time I am back stateside I feel like im being waited on in the white house or something fancy.
Part of European dining is the social aspect, that gets ruined when you're constantly being asked if you want another drink.
> the problem of going tip-free is that customers struggle to get their heads around the maths.
Maybe they should show the price "without tip" next to the full price, so people can compare.
Paying employees with tips is an insane concept, fundamentally abusive. If it wasn't, then the owner would also get paid from tips. "The meals are all free, and we count on you to pay them through tips". Obviously no owner would take that risk, because it is insane. They make their employees take that risk because they can abuse them, that's all.
> If it wasn't, then the owner would also get paid from tips.
Actually it's quite common for owners to take some of the tips, even though that's not legal.
I grew up in a restaurant in the US. Tipping is a counterintuitive evolution in wages, I’ll probably dig in more.
Anecdotally, a waitress could easily earn more than minimum wage during a shift. Sometimes easy clearing $100 when minimum wage was $7/hr (it was $2.15/hr for wait staff). Add to that the tip reporting was lax and no there’s no tax on tips, waiting is on par with minimum wage.
An interesting side effect is that adding waitstaff is marginal cost to an operator.
We need to at least normalize not tipping for counter service. Given the current wage structures and labor laws in the US and Canada, if I sit down at a table and I receive table service, I'm going to tip 15% unless the service was abhorrent.
I am not going to tip if I order and take my food from a counter and serve myself (and then almost certainly clear my own table as well), or I buy any other form of product standing up. Basically, if I'm standing for the entire customer service transaction, it's not tippable.
Very often regarding those articles, you read in the comments different varieties of "good service":
- may I ask: What does this actually mean?
I have never been to a "high class" or "fine dining" location, so maybe my expectations are in general not high.
My expectations are just simple: Give me the menu quickly, let me order quickly, let me eat and let me pay quickly.
Thats it. What do I miss?
EDIT: Im located in EU.
Good service is mostly invisible. Courses paced to how you're eating, not fired all at once or giving you 20 minute gaps between mains. Drinks refilled, plates cleared without asking. Reading the room and knowing when I want to chat or be left alone. Staff that know what their serving, whats in it, how it's cooked, what wine pairs well, etc.
That's a good question. Good service is something important to the overall dining experience, so much so, higher end places regard the "maître d'hôtel" aka the service/restaurant manager equal to the chef.
Great service is generally about "reading your mind": e.g. providing you with a replacement fork that you dropped without you needing to ask. Also, coordinating that "timing" you are after, perfectly. Good service is attentive without being overly present. If you ever ate somewhere in a sitdown restaurant and thought after "wow that was a great meal", service contributed to that.
As a foreigner in the US, I've made the faux-pas of assuming waiters and waitresses were being paid a full salary by their employer.
I even suspect that I received sub-par service from some of them, who may have identified me as a "no-tip risk" from the first moment.
I'm not saying they're right to do so, but it sounds like their intuition was honed well if they pegged you correctly during your faux-pas era? Fascinating, wonder what the tell was.
If you are a foreigner I imagine your accent can give you away pretty quickly. Europeans would be far less likely to tip (or tip generously).
To be honest they are paid a full salary. Tipped wage does not preclude the minimum wage. In addition there are many states like CA that do not have a tipped wage.
Actually not. In my state and others, when a business is designated as accepting tips, the workers can be paid less than minimum wage, while expecting that the tips they collect will make up for it.
So it’s really a way to extort good tips from customers, because it’s understood that our gratuities are the only way they can make minimum wage!
In every state I am aware of employers are required to gross up to minimum wage if tips fall short. Yours is likely the same.
> As a foreigner in the US, I've made the faux-pas of assuming waiters and waitresses were being paid a full salary by their employer.
This depends on the state. For example, in California, servers get state minimum wage, at least ($16.90/hour). On the other hand, most "red" states use the federal minimums: $2.13/hour for servers (!) and $7.25/hour for non-tipped employees.
You were lucky to get out alive.
Threatening assault on a paying customer for not knowing tipping norms is just one of the many reasons why American society is in the state it is. I've seen similar things like 'be glad I didn't spit in your food', 'next time they are getting trouser food'. This is despicable.
I always thought "paying" your staff via tips was primarily a tax dodge.
Yes, the staff are supposed to declare all their untraceable cash income, but...yeah.
So at least some of that income is untaxed, meaning higher net for same gross, meaning total prices even including tip can be lower.
Next also include sales tax in label prices.
We're going in the other direction. In Seattle it's common for restaurants to tack on an extra "service charge" that's not a tip, just because. It's supposed to be declared somewhere.
With tip your bill can easily end up 40% higher.
welcome to europe, where tips are optional and sales tax is denoted
Tips are optional everywhere, but the reactions to not receiving one will be different.
Somehow the "tip culture" is spreading over here too, especially in touristy areas, even the POS terminals now ask you for a tip.
It's widespread here in Ireland. POS terminals have 5%, 10%, 15% and 20% tip options with a tiny and hard to reach dismiss button.
I often tip generously, but never when they start out expecting one. If the terminal asks for a tip, I don't tip.
Interesting. What POS terminals are common there? I am curious about culture spreading through technology defaults and wonder if it's effectively driven by whatever Square chose and whomever else decided to ape the incumbent or whatever.
You them everywhere. Most insane are the bars where you have to walk up to the bar to order, the bartender plops the drinks on the bar and immediately moves on to another customer, and the terminal still displays default tip amounts and you have to do custom → €0. What the hell am I tipping you for?
At this point I'm waiting for supermarket self-checkout to add a default tip amount.
There's a bunch of them, but the tip offers are usually on the newer touchscreen (probably android based) ones.
The old ones (never seen the tip option on those... for now): https://www.simple-shop.si/en/pos-terminal-tcpip-en and eg https://www.unicreditbank.si/si/podjetja/upravljanje-z-denar...
The new ones: https://www.sumup.com/sl-si/karticni-citalec-terminal/ and https://besteron.com/si/pos-terminali/ (both support tips) + many other in similar designs (full front touchscreen)
I don't think square supports slovenia for now, but POS vedors add the tip option, and our restaurant owners enable it, because it doesn't cost them anything, any many (especially foreign) guests "feel bad" for choosing the zero on the screen.
It is because you are leaving money on the table if you don't ask for more money. The hyper maximizing money is what needs to stop.
Unless it's a bottle deposit tax, then it gets added outside the advertised price ;) 2 Euro bottle of Coke, great, I have 2 euro left, pay 2 euro 20 please... Fawwwwwkkkkkkkkk
It's not a tax, it's a 'loan'. You'll get the money back if you return the bottle later.
Depends on country. In Finland that is also part of the price. Separate line on the receipt, but included in any advertised price.
yeah, this one also gets to my bones. and then you cant return every deposit-taxed bottle everywhere - but only in stores where it's sold. then some friends leave bottles at your place which you cannot return anywhere near... what a mess
FWIW France has it right: there's no tipping, service is always included.
I am french, living in the US: yes, service is always included in France, but service is usually not that good. At least, definitely not as good as in the US.
I think it is subjective. I prefer being left alone and having to talk to the staff only when I need something.
Being interrupted every 2 minutes with a "Is everything ok?" is annoying.
I spend about equal time in the USA and split between France, Germany, and The Netherlands.
Personally, I find the service in USA restaurants to be obnoxious, overly fake, and disruptive. I generally only go out to eat in Europe because I prefer a peaceful meal rather than a rushed one with a side of fake friendship.
Many countries have far better service without tipping, China and Japan come to mind.
Japan is amazing in some places, that you can order with a tablet apps then you pick up your food yourself when it arrived. Very minimum interaction and employees needed.
The market works better in China: Competition is fierce and nowadays with online reviews most restaurants are so scared of a bad review that they go the extra mile and staff go all out as soon as you raise a slight concern.
This is a problem for the employer and for the selection and remuneration of staff (at all levels of the chain and not just those in contact with the customer)
We take food very seriously :)
I never thought about paying staff via tips being a tax dodge for the restaurant if it lets them avoid raising prices and thus taxable revenue.
If the price increase is actually linked to higher wages for the staff, there should be no increase in taxable revenue for the restaurant, because the wages are deductible expenses. But there is still the matter of sales tax (paid by the customer), and the tax payable by the employee on their wages (not sure if tips are technically taxable income already, but regardless, you can bet most staff aren't paying taxes on them).
They used to be taxable income, but now thanks to Trump’s “no tax on tips” campaign promise they aren’t. Effectively nobody paid taxes on cash tips anyway, but nowadays cash tips are relatively rare and credit card tips definitely show up on paystubs/W2s.
The BBC article's "sales tax" reason sounds good - unless you know that several US states do not have sales tax.
The actual history of tipping: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tipping#History
And a bit on Sales Taxes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sales_tax#In_the_United_States
From old family stories, I figure the real reason for tipping service workers is that both employers and customers want there to be plenty of service workers available - but the demand for their labor (restaurant customers, whatever) is very unpredictable compared to factory, farm, or gov't work. And service industries can't afford to keep a lot of idle workers around at full pay. So tipping is a simple revenue-sharing scheme, wrapped in social niceties, that boosts/cuts the service workers' income based on whether business is currently fast or slow.
Good. Tipping creates so much mental overhead and unnecessary bad feelings on everyone's part.
I hate that some workers depend on tips and that creates an obligation on me, but I do like to tip because I know how great it feels to get one. At work I sometimes get a bonus and what’s that if not a tip?
I benefit too. It’s a way for me to express gratitude.
Been to Santa Cruz visiting the bike factory, went to the bar next door to drink with some mountain bikers.
They had 'Brussels IPA' and 'Belgian IPA', I ordered those beers coming from Brussels and did not knew those beers.
The waiter looked at me strangely. I did not gave any tips.
I am against the popular opinion and I actually tip if the hotel is somewhat cheap (ie food does not cost a small fortune). I do it out of selfish reasons. When I order chicken, I want them to bring me a good piece. Or if I order Porotta, I want them to bring me the most fresh one.
Or sometimes when I get a very tasty meal, I just tip them to share them some of the happiness that they brought me. But totally depends on how strapped for cash I currently am...
This is India, and not US, by the way..
Any recommendations for tipping in India? (Amounts etc) I was warned against tipping too much by locals who worried it could distort local economies toward tourists and away from local people.
I usually do like something between 30-50 Rs (around 10% of the cost of food). It is not a lot, but I don't think anyone would expect to be tipped more than that..
finally. they should pay employees a better wage instead of relying on patrons to pay the tips (which might or might not end up with the employees...)
I think you'd be very surprised to learn that in a lot of cases, tipping pays much better than whatever a "reasonable" hourly wage for taking an order and carrying food to a table would be. If you're serving three tables that each have $100 checks and you get at 15% tip, that's $45/hour... yes it may average out higher or lower but you're not gonna like how much eating out costs if employers are expected to pay the higher end of what a server can make (spoiler: waiters will demand that).
A famous recent example, the South Park guys bought a restaurant and eliminated tips with a very nice $30/hour wage. Seems pretty good, doesn't it?
Guess what? The waiters demanded a return to tipping[0]!
0: https://www.restaurantbusinessonline.com/workforce/casa-boni...
Tipping is a weird phenomenon that's only an issue in the Americas. I have traveled extensively all over Asia and even the same chain/restaurants which are US based don't actually have the concept of tipping. Sure, you can always tip if you want. However, the issue with tipping culture is the blatant entitlement. I always tell rude waiters who literally demand tips for shitty services this:
I get it, their wages aren't great. However, that is a discussion to be had with their employer, not me.Of course, I want them to get paid a fair wage too - the only way to fight against this culture is taking a stand against tipping. If enough people don't tip, hopefully the restaurant will struggle to find staff and eventually - either close down or increase the wages. But, don't try to run a restaurant when you clearly can't afford to pay your staff a decent wage. That's just running a business on hopes and dreams. It's not my job to subsidize your poor financial and business planning.
Mr. Pink doesn't tip in Reservoir Dogs -
https://youtu.be/M4sTSIYzDIk?si=VkoIHgKpIFz-eMOJ
Retail stores should also ban tips.
It's insane how it takes advantage of good people who feel like they're doing something wrong for hitting "no tip" in settings where nobody was asked to tip just 5-10 years ago.
On the other hand, lots of people have the liberating experience of discovering that "no tip" is a sensible default to press, and from then on we're out of the tipping game. Bots don't guilt trip me anymore, hooray!
Flip the script, you're a greedy ASSHOLE for asking people to tip in this economy! Now it becomes easier to hit 0 tip. Even try negative tip, some devices allow this bug.
These are reasonable prices for a place much cheaper than SFO. This is what people pay in Eastern Europe. 2500 CZK for a set - around $120 - won't be at all surprising or perceived as high in Prague, for instance. It can go up to 8000 or so.
Yeah, I'm kind of surprised by both restaurants tasting menu prices. Those seem downright reasonable for their locations.
who invent this shit?
+1 reason not to travel to USA