A Kantian Critique of "Sorry" by Justin Bieber

(decodingvibes.com)

88 points | by altmanaltman 2 hours ago ago

30 comments

  • BubbleRings an hour ago

    Funny. Take a simple pop song about apology and make an academic treatise on what a heartfelt apology looks like.

    On the other end of the spectrum would be to summarize it in the shortest form with the simplest words, instead of with many and multi-syllable words. How about this (not mine, I’ve heard this in addiction recovery rooms, where apologies and amends are often discussed):

    In the sentence “I’m sorry I did x, but you did y”, the word “but” means “disregard the above.”

    • Waterluvian an hour ago

      I agree with the sentiment.

      But,

      Whenever I catch myself reaching for “but” I recognize it is because I need to feel heard. What I did was unacceptable. But I didn’t do it in a vacuum and I need my grievances to be recognized. My belief is that omitting the “but” phrase is an act of faith. You need to trust that the other party cares about your feelings and side of the issue, too. Accepting an apology is just as delicate an act as giving one.

      “I’m sorry I hit you with the blue shell.”

      “I appreciate you saying that. I know you were in last place and that must have felt awful. I don’t want that for you either.”

      • hmokiguess 21 minutes ago

        I find you can almost always replace “but” with “and” in situations like those and end up more heard by the other side.

        I understand the urge to feel heard AND whenever we bring something that may contrast we risk the disagreement connotation that “but” carries to trigger the recipient’s defensive reaction (even if unconsciously)

        • Waterluvian 19 minutes ago

          First rule of relationships: adhere to the first rule of improv!

      • repeekad 33 minutes ago

        So, you don’t agree with the sentiment?.. /s

  • pipeline_peak a minute ago

    Neil Hagerty (Royal Trux, Pussy Galore) Talks Justin Bieber’s Purpose

    https://talkhouse.com/neil-hagerty-royal-trux-pussy-galore-t...

  • cyanmagenta 2 hours ago

    Justin Bieber is a utilitarian rather than Kantian. From a UChicago economics view, he is behaving rationally.

    • nmz 25 minutes ago

      If utilitarianisms only interest is the consequence of the action and whether it resulted in a positive outlook. the consequence that we care about is "your body" and if "sorry" is uttered in time, then we can receive the reward, If in the relationship you say sorry and there is an expectation of all actions being forgiven, then, this is the ultimate get out of jail free card. it is infinite because you can always use it, therefore although there is recognition of wrongdoing (at first), there is no need for a preventative measure to take place, because the recognition only looks at the consequence of reverting the status of "wronged" to "righted", not about the causes of the status "wronged" to have happened. This leads to an infinite loop of wrongful actions. What would happen if we constantly said "sorry" unnecessarily at a set interval, which we'll call the canadian way, there would always be our desired consequence and no wrongdoing to ever take place!

      Without the recognition and admittance of wrongdoing, the wrong action itself will repeat forever in the relationship because its tolerable. making it an infinite get out of jail free card. If this was a system, fault tolerance would be at 100%, the error rate is probably the highest in any system that could exist, if it was code, then there wouldn't even be such a thing as bugfixes, the only recourse is "have you tried rebooting it?" method of recovery systems. Of course if the fault tolerance was not 100% then everything would be different.

  • henrydark an hour ago

    Song also proves Bieber is a dualist

    "cause I'm missing more than just your body"

    What else does she have that he misses?

    • andai an hour ago

      Dank memes. She has dank memes on her phone.

  • wj 24 minutes ago

    That brought to mind this examination of Taylor Swift's Shake it Off:

    https://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/taylor-swift-a-socratic-...

  • num42 14 minutes ago

    Good article! Off topic, It reminds me of this:

    https://www.bensparks.co.uk/talk/the-sacred-geometry-of-chan...

  • stcg 16 minutes ago

    Fun read! I love the depth in seemingly superficial texts. Sometimes I similarly ponder claims or questions in advertisements.

  • therealjason 6 minutes ago

    Aside from the other links in comments, any where to read more of this? I need more.

  • shrubby an hour ago

    After spending most of today circling around maxims I appreciate the application.

    Though I must state that the pic almost had me closing the tab before reading.

    Here's another venting out, somewhere near Categorical Imperative https://kohlbergs7.org/epm/

    • KPGv2 37 minutes ago

      > After spending most of today circling around Maxims

      a sentence i have't heard since middle school at the local corner store with my bros hesitant about buying a lad mag

  • b--l 15 minutes ago

    I need to stop using this website.

  • kundi 19 minutes ago

    Good. We can move to Bruno Mars now

    • m-hodges 3 minutes ago

      An Aristotelian Critique of “The Lazy Song”

  • aeve890 an hour ago

    >No AI was used to generate the text for this article

    Damn. Please never stop writing

    • andai an hour ago

      The slop art gave me the wrong impression. I did enjoy the read even thinking it was AI though.

      • stronglikedan 8 minutes ago

        It's not an art piece, it's a writing piece. The illustration is just there for support, not the central focus or even the topic of the article. The author is obviously a decent writer, but I don't see how they should be expected to pay an artist for a simple illustration when this article has nothing to do with said illustration. Life isn't black and white, and you'd do yourself a favor by noticing the shades of gray.

      • neogodless 23 minutes ago

        I'm sorry we're getting so off topic here but...

        I suppose it helps to focus on the core of someone's strength, and the core of the content they are sharing.

        You could be a great engineer and a great blogger, but have no skill in making graphics. If you made the artistic choice to add AI-generated art to an excellent engineering blog post, I would forgive it -- assuming it wasn't detracting in some important way.

        Overall, the human skill of editing - particularly excluding that which is not additive - does remain key though.

        I will say in this case, I don't know the pop song well enough to know if the AI-generated image is super relevant, or just random.

        EDIT: I'm guessing it's "Kant"[0] in the image, listening to modern music. Ah... at first I thought it was like, George Washington.

        [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immanuel_Kant

        • aeve890 5 minutes ago

          You're absolutely right! jk. I hate this situation of "everything is slop until proven otherwise" and the author doesn't have to be good at writing and drawing just to share their thoughts. But generally you don't expect a Michelin star level meal after having a turd sandwich entrée. It's just a natural pavlovian response at this point to see slop and expect slop. Totally unfair, I agree, but really hard to get rid of it.

      • aeve890 22 minutes ago

        Yeah me too. While reading I keep thinking "ok this might be ai generated but it's not slop. Good job funny man". I owe the author an apology.

  • m-hodges 19 minutes ago

    I would thoroughly enjoy an entire podcast of this genre.

    ...

    A Cartesian Critique of "Fireflies" by Owl City

    ...

    A Humean Critique of "I Gotta Feeling" by The Black Eyed Peas

  • hmokiguess 2 hours ago

    Great, now do Apologize by Timbaland from the lenses of Schopenhauer

    • jambalaya8 an hour ago

      I was going to say for "What Goes Around Comes Around" by Timberlake, or maybe "F--- it, I don't want you back" by Eamonn, myself. Schopenhauer though. Great minds.

      • jubilanti 30 minutes ago

        Yeah yeah Schopenhauer, but Nietzsche's eternal recurrance is just sitting there!

    • ignoramous 2 hours ago

      > from the lenses of Schopenhauer

      Ha! Analysing (deconstructing?) poems was part of primary schooling in middle eastern traditions wherein Philosophy & Cosmology were considered to be the highest form of Knowledge (informed by Avicenna's ideas on pedagogy & education): https://www.researchgate.net/publication/399623059_Islamic_E...