Proof of care in the age of AI

(jacobfilipp.com)

123 points | by jfil 3 hours ago ago

79 comments

  • bearjaws 11 minutes ago

    I've been debating switching my blog to a vlog that is a one shot recording, no retakes, just real thoughts and advice in real time.

    I've joked with friends its the "Farm to table" for thoughts, at least as much as it can be. Obviously you can just recite a LLM output, but that's more work IMO.

  • malty_on_rock 2 hours ago

    This was something that bugged me while writing. Someone even asked, What's the point if people aren't going to read the whole thing? Reading this made my day, not just because of the content, but because someone else cared enough to tackle the same problem. Good one, Sire.

  • jimmiles an hour ago

    If I had handwritten this, there would be at least one (likely lots more) errors in writing crossed out mingled in with the text. That there isn't makes me wonder why such a lengthy sample contains seemingly zero handwriting errors. Is that plausible?

    EDIT: After seeing the comments, I am realizing how little I ever rewrote my own writings, an admitted weakness of mine. It was the blindspot behind which I made my reply!

    • patcon 11 minutes ago

      In grammar school in the 90s, I used to write in pencil, then retrace in pen when done, erasing the underlying pencil after the ink dried. I'd proofread the pencil version, find missing words, and you could rewrite to balance out space

      I think that was pretty common amongst "keeners" doing writing assignments.

    • Kerrick an hour ago

      You can handwrite more than just your first draft. It was common before the proliferation of computers to handwrite early drafts in pencil, and then handwrite the final manuscript with ink.

      • thewebguyd a minute ago

        > It was common before the proliferation of computers

        We always had to write our first couple drafts in pencil/handwritten in school. Eventually we moved to typing the final draft by the time I hit high school but exams were always handwritten still and now I feel quite "old" at 38 knowing that there are adults on this very forum that probably did not have to handwrite much beyond elementary school.

    • raphaeldelio an hour ago

      You can write a draft first and then transcribe it once it's done without any mistakes. That's how I had to write essays when I was at school.

    • psd1 an hour ago

      Yes, your bias is showing. Before Gutenberg, "scribe" was a profession, and perfect fidelity was expected.

      We also don't know how many sheets went in the bin.

  • arkhiver an hour ago
  • gnarlouse 15 minutes ago

    I've sort of been thinking about this in terms of software dev lifecycle & PRs/code review.

    Maybe PRs these days need to "test" the human? "Explain how this code works, without AI, or it gets rejected."

  • nlawalker 23 minutes ago

    Proving care still leaves the audience to determine if the care is in the message or in attracting attention.

  • voidUpdate an hour ago

    While I appreciate the work put into this, I found it pretty hard to read because of the authors handwriting. I would never do this myself because I know that I have awful handwriting, and people would struggle to read it

    • ivanjermakov an hour ago

      Scroll to the end, text is intentionally copy-pasteable. Press ctrl+a and read it in Comic Sans :).

  • wolttam 2 hours ago

    I am commenting only to say that I read the reflected-letter text and found that amusing.

  • xnorswap an hour ago

    I'm unreasonably distracted by the fact that the illustrations of the tattoos are on the back of the "Subtraction" page.

    That is consistent for both pages, but inconsistent with how they seem to be ordered within the text.

    I guess the chapters were re-arranged post-script, with the "Storytellers" chapter inserted between them later?

    • jfil 42 minutes ago

      Ooh, sharp eye ;-) You are correct.

  • werber an hour ago

    I didn't finish the article, it was slightly difficult to read due to handwriting, and I'm not sure if I would have gotten any more value if I had continued. The mere of act of having written, or prompted to get something written is not intrinsically valuable to me. I have a degree in English literature, and I do not feel confident in my ability to discern AI writing from human anymore. I wasn't sure when I stopped reading if the images had been generated or not, and I don't know if it matters either way.

    If you cannot demonstrate why I should continue reading by the quality of your writing alone, I'm not going to finish what you have written. I put down maybe half of the books I start without finishing, plenty of them written well before 2022 just because I am not enjoying them, or find the writing bad, or boring, or overly pedantic, or a million other reasons that are specific to me and my own bad taste.

    I hope we can get to a point where people will stop clutching their pearls over AI writing, I have no interest in entertaining the theater of proof. Writing is either useful or not useful, good or bad for the reader, and making the reading experience worse to prove your worthiness as a writer provides me no value. If you need to be reassured that something was not written by a large language model, and that's enough for you to consider something worth reading your standards are lower than I will ever be comfortable dropping mine too.

    • elil17 40 minutes ago

      I think that perhaps you would have gotten more out of finishing it - given that you would have found out that it is more of a short story than an "article."

      • BeetleB 9 minutes ago

        Yes, but not a particularly good story.

    • mschuster91 an hour ago

      > I hope we can get to a point where people will stop clutching their pearls over AI writing, I have no interest in entertaining the theater of proof.

      The problem, at least for me, is that I don't trust AI. Subtle mistakes, outright hallucinations, or mistakes/omissions that an actual expert of the domain would immediately notice, whatever.

      And as soon as I encounter anything that even looks like one of the typical AI tells or, in long content, a lack of cohesion or repetition... I can't help myself from immediately second-guessing every little thing in the content. And where there's smoke, usually there is fire... and I find myself annoyed for having wasted time to read something I had to crosscheck with other sources and found my suspicions confirmed. At least sometimes I learn something from digging into original sources, but frankly, I don't have the time for that.

      Using AI for anything (including to "polish" grammar and spelling) is mentally taxing for everyone else.

      • BeetleB 6 minutes ago

        Do you not have to second guess/verify stuff humans write...?

        Of all the reasons to dislike AI writing, this is an odd one.

        > Using AI for anything (including to "polish" grammar and spelling) is mentally taxing for everyone else.

        I truly believe that in a few years, the obsession with determining whether an AI wrote some text will be classified as a mental disorder. And I say that with all seriousness.

  • 128byte 2 hours ago
    • dgabriel an hour ago

      This misses the point.

      • spelk 6 minutes ago

        People with visual impairments and other functional limitations don't deserve nice things apparently, like dignity online.

      • throwawayffffas 43 minutes ago

        The article misses the point of writing.

  • halfax 2 hours ago

    i think the point is good, hadwriting forces you to think more, even from typing the same.. BUT , i am unsure this would be proof you wrote it or AI genereated it , same with tatoos , AI can genereate picutres of said Tatoo...

    • RevEng 13 minutes ago

      This isn't about proof that you wrote it - it's about proof that you care. It was important enough that you spent the effort to write it out, or were so dedicated that you committed to wearing it on your body forever. It could be someone else's message, but you are proving it is important to you by showing a personal sacrifice to share the message.

    • raphaeldelio an hour ago

      Even though it doesn't prove the author wrote it himself, it at least proves he had to thoroughly read it before sharing.

  • greenoracle9 16 minutes ago

    A long handwritten essay used to at least prove someone spent time on it.

  • beybol 16 minutes ago

    I think most people wouldn't appreciate it these days :(

  • woadwarrior01 41 minutes ago

    I've been thinking about something similar for a while now. Although my scheme involves cryptographic attestation and typing stuff with hands.

    • trollbridge 38 minutes ago

      Quite easy to rig up a machine to type on a keyboard. I guess you could require a video of it being typed.

      Then, the typist could simply be typing in an AI generated piece of text.

      The only solution is to trust the person who handed you the work to accurately tell you the author, and then trust the author to be telling you any attribution.

      I personally have earned this trust as people know anything I AI generate will have an Assisted-by: tag on it.

      • woadwarrior01 23 minutes ago

        Agree. OTOH, people have been using plotters for simulating handwriting. Also, nothing preventing someone from hand-copying an AI written piece as I'm sure lots kids are doing these days for take-home assignments.

  • danielparks 2 hours ago

    I was genuinely expecting this to be LLM-generated.

    Also, what’s his problem with the “Witch Priestess from the North?”

    EDIT: Oh, the blue backgrounds are links. https://jacobfilipp.com/new-lord/

    • altcognito 2 hours ago

      > I was genuinely expecting this to be LLM-generated.

      It isn’t?

      • chb an hour ago

        >Click here to see the "how this was made" feature

        ^ at the bottom of the article

  • DanielHB 9 minutes ago

    LLM corporate slop is the new version big data reports that nobody reads.

    I am sad this infected code documentation and PR descriptions. This kind of stuff used to exist in order keep managers/executives busy not to keep engineers busy...

  • amelius 2 hours ago

    We need a proof-of-care coin.

    • The_Blade 2 hours ago

      i just learned that these exist so you can like, prove that humanitarian funds that were supposed to fund surgery in civil war-torn Africa were actually used to perform surgery

      that seems pretty ripe for a new Geldof / Bono combo to use thinking they are doing good

  • fxwin 2 hours ago

    That was a fun read! I caught myself almost skimming the first part until i got to the mirrored paragraph, and slowed down significantly after that to read more deliberately.

    I'm not sure how much actual advice one can take from this essay though beyond "use personal commitment (e.g. time or presence) to signal importance/care" and "go offline" (aka touch grass)

  • bcjdjsndon 2 hours ago

    Don't handwrite your next post and definitely don't start writing in your own back to front cryptic code.

    The reality is people don't always care if a human poured their heart and soul into something. Sometimes they do, but not always.

    It's like lamented handwritten script when the printing press was invented....

    • fidotron an hour ago

      > The reality is people don't always care if a human poured their heart and soul into something. Sometimes they do, but not always.

      Generally speaking the ones that do care are those that also hope their own creations are/will be appreciated by people that similarly pour their heart into them, and they really don't understand that most people just see things for what they as consumers get out of them.

      On some level writing on the net now is for an AI audience anyway. (Greetings fellow bots).

    • fxwin 2 hours ago

      > The reality is people don't always care if a human poured their heart and soul into something.

      That's fine, but I don't think the author would suggest writing e.g. library documentation by hand. It's clearly advice for the creator side of the problem of low signal-to-noise ratio in the digital space and how to stand out/signal, rather than a general rule

    • AlotOfReading an hour ago

      When the printing press was invented by Gutenberg, it wasn't used to produce finished documents. Printed books had large margins and omitted initial letters to leave space for the manual steps of rubrication and illumination. Plus, the printing itself was a product of huge amounts of manual typesetting effort.

      The results speak for themselves. Those early printed works are beautiful to a degree few other books have managed since.

    • RetroTechie 36 minutes ago

      > The reality is people don't always care if a human poured their heart and soul into something.

      The reverse: sometimes people care if you do. "Caring" and "effort" tend to be good indicators.

      But imagine there's some yet-undiscovered <something> that has big implications, and conditions exist for its discovery. Then someone stumbles across it, puts out a hasty tweet, walks off & doesn't look back. Took no effort whatsoever, didn't care much about it. Or maybe some AI does that.

      Would that reduce the value of the message? Imho: no.

      I'm hoping we'll find ways to separate the gems from mountains of slop they're buried in, that don't require AI-powered tools to wade through that slop & pick the gems. Or establish incentives to not produce all that slop in the 1st place. Not sure if that's doable or how.

      But I don't care that much about AI-generated or not (although I'd prefer if stuff were marked as such). Useful, well-written, interesting, exactly what you needed, providing a new angle on a subject, innovative: that's where it's at.

      Btw I'm all out of soapboxes. Would a potato crate do, in a pinch? Not gettin' a tattoo!

    • jvanderbot 2 hours ago

      LLM slop is considered low value because it contains a low information/minute as well as a low effort/minute signal. You want to know that the reader put more effort in than you do, and that it is worth your time. The effort signal just points to a possible high information/minute return.

      When someone takes the laborious effort to provide a short paragraph on an insanely complex topic, precisely written without excessive hedging or jargon, and conveying a shortcut or mental model, I know they worked hard on it. That is still a valuable signal. No amount of fancy medium can top a well-framed idea concisely stated.

      • bcjdjsndon 2 hours ago

        > I know they worked hard on it. That is still a valuable sign

        An infant scrawling the alphabet in its own excrement would have that "signal"...

        • jagged-chisel an hour ago

          And also has the hallmarks of "art." I suggest, however, if one were to actually implement this, that the 'excrement' should likely be a food-safe lookalike; maybe chocolate with granola and fruit hunks. Less likely to have trouble with child welfare authorities.

          • psd1 an hour ago

            Just a short jump from there to the concept of steganography over the back channel of aggregate child welfare enforcement actions. Typical HN

      • dfgvfvbcv an hour ago

        What differentiates a splendid idea slopped into an article by AI from complete meaningless drivel being chiseled into perfection by a skilled human writer is not the form, but the content.

        We arrived in the era of Effective Content: judge a book by its content, not its cover.

        E=MC^2 expressed as AI slop article still is light-years ahead of any of, say, Deepak Chopra's work no matter how polished, well-thought or painstakingly handwritten it was.

        If I had the algorithm for AGI and I would let Fable write some slop about it you'll still sell your own mother to read it. It's not the form, it's the content.

  • miles_matthias an hour ago

    I love this problem and think it's super important. I've similarly noticed myself using a whiteboard to think critically for a while and then take a picture of the whiteboard as proof of deep thought, even if the next step is AI supplemented (a doc, a video, etc).

    I've also started noticing people annotating a whole doc "written by humans" to try to convey effort and care. That's fine for some things but do that too often and a reader will be left with two thoughts:

    1. Did they actually write this by hand? No way 2. Should they have written some of this with AI? Seems like a waste of time formatting some of this when they could've been spending their time thinking critically

    • b40d-48b2-979e an hour ago

      What do you mean "no way"? We've written long texts for as long as we've been writing as a species.

      • psd1 an hour ago

        Not GP, but consider the view from the inside of a feckless pleb's skull. Effort is to be avoided, so its needless expenditure is unrelatable.

  • MontagFTB 2 hours ago

    TLDR proof of care from the article: a low bandwidth process (e.g., from handwriting to tattooing it on your body) that you voluntarily put your words through to convey their level of personal importance.

    Some of his examples were tongue in cheek. But even handwriting feels a little too laborious when what we lost that needs replacement is manual typing.

    • UnfitFootprint 2 hours ago

      Not to mention accessibility, which as usual benefits everyone with features such as text search, so I guess we‘ll keep looking for an answer.

      Typewriters?

      • MontagFTB an hour ago

        I have heard of some high school classes reverting to typewriters. So your suggestion holds some weight.

  • dfgvfvbcv an hour ago

    Guard your mental resources. You always should have, but in the age of AI it is no longer optional.

    Simple algorithm for not wasting your time:

    1) By default nothing is valuable or worth your while 2) Aggressively hunt for signals indicating potential worth (ancient pedigree and/or critical acclaim being most valuable) 3) Choose maybe 10% of what survives for actual reading, scan some others and dump the rest

    Oh, and let LLMs summarize near-zero information articles like this one.

    • RevEng 9 minutes ago

      There is plenty of info here. That you failed to notice it is a separate issue.

    • cwmoore 35 minutes ago

      This sounds like work for a personally aligned local agent interacting with your past and future media timeline.

      It probably exists in some form, any suggestions?

    • bryanlarsen 29 minutes ago

      Sturgeon's Law (90% of everything is crud) applies more than ever in the age of AI.

      The best filter is time -- the cream does eventually rise to the top. And conveniently the time filter also excludes AI slop.

  • zparky 36 minutes ago

    Not surprised to see such negative comments, this forum is fried by LLMs nowadays. I was immediately intrigued by reading a handwritten blog post, and enjoy ergodic literature, like this! I liked the message too, and this might shove me toward some handwriting projects I've been meaning to tackle lately.

  • chb an hour ago

    Am I the only one who thinks the ending is a non-sequitur? How is the hackneyed, "the kids are allright" [sic] related to the preceding content?

    • pphysch an hour ago

      Yeah and if this were taken seriously, you would have Mechanical Turk style services where poors are paid pennies to hand-write submitted/generated slop, defeating the purpose.

      • RevEng 7 minutes ago

        They covered that situation with the pen plotter. There are signals of commitment that you can't fake. The article isn't saying anything about accuracy or authorship, only that you actually cared about what you were communicating enough to put in some self sacrifice, and that this is a useful signal to help decide if something is worth listening to.

  • a_c an hour ago

    Text to handwriting in 3..2..

    • elil17 41 minutes ago

      I feel like perhaps you did not read the whole piece

      • a_c 36 minutes ago

        You got me.

  • rob74 an hour ago

    I have to admit I skipped to the end, but the conclusion of the article seems to be: "If you really care about something, make a song and dance about it. Around a bonfire. While wearing feathers and a mask. Drugs are optional, but recommended."?

    ...which reminded me of this song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qyk5U2p-msk ("I must be a narcissist / God knows that I can’t resist / To make a song and dance about it").

  • esafak an hour ago

    We need to normalize provenance tracking and sharing, similar to how git lets you separate the author from the committer.

    I would go further and quantify how much of the message is AI in situations where humans edit it.

  • ge96 an hour ago

    tangent rant, annoys me like "yeah senior engineer" or whatever, "yeah I can do that", puts the task into AI, puts up a dogshit PR can't explain how it works

    now more than ever can fake it

    • avgDev 16 minutes ago

      What do you mean the RAM goes brrr and the CPU goes tick tock and things just happen.

  • pbronez 2 hours ago

    The medium is the message! Well written.

  • lezojeda 2 hours ago

    I'm 100% sure an AI grifter will see this and start creating blogposts with AI-generated images of handwritten text.

  • doug_durham 19 minutes ago

    Handwriting is inherently ableist. A portion of the population is blessed with the inherent ability of fast, legible handwriting. A portion of the population is not. Typing is an equalizer that allows more people to participate in the conversation.

    • aqfamnzc 14 minutes ago

      I hope you're joking. In case you're serious, the same argument could be made about typing, speaking, or really any related activity. Or communication in general.

    • Bratmon 14 minutes ago

      If wanting people to put in effort to communicate to me is ableist, then call me a proud ableist.