116 comments

  • goldenarm an hour ago

    Why post a Google docs copy of the original article?

    https://www.mayrhofer.eu.org/post/leaving-google/

    • guhcampos 22 minutes ago

      The blog post is from June 19th. Google Doc from June 17th.

      My guess? He shared the Google Doc link with his peers, but forgot that Google Docs links are public for anyone who knows the link, so someone just forwarded it to oblivion, and he was forced to publish that as blog post. The addendums kind of reflect that.

      That's a great reminded that any Google Doc with a shareable link is basically a public document for all intents and purposes.

    • layer8 an hour ago

      Discussion of the blog post (284 comments): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48496396

      The blog post now also contains a second addendum that the Google doc doesn't have.

    • jchw an hour ago

      I think that article is rather a copy of the original Google Doc, judging by the included go link.

    • zobzu 8 minutes ago

      it's typical for googlers to leave a note like this in gdocs when they leave As thats the standard at google. i imagine its the original and google hasnt decided to turn off public sharing on it

  • bix6 an hour ago

    > Google was a different company 9 years ago.

    No it wasn’t.

    • shantnutiwari an hour ago

      yeah, looks like some history rewriting.

      9 years ago was 2017-- and by that time Google was already doing sleazy SEO shit, scanning peoples emails to who them ads, trying to make ads seem like general search results etc etc

      Google was *exactly* this company it is today

      • w4der an hour ago

        The "Don't be evil" motto was diluted in 2015 when alphabet was formed, and taken down in 2018, so yeah, things were brewing from before.

        • Rebuff5007 39 minutes ago

          The author of this article disagrees:

          > “Don’t Be Evil” wasn’t just a slogan of often-referenced Googliness—it was a north star for teams making hard calls.

          It definitely counts for something that at least one senior leader felt the slogan was relevant for decision making.

          • 2muchcoffeeman 17 minutes ago

            The author is not cynical enough.

            Do you going around telling people how virtuous you are? No, good people just try and be good.

            The slogan was a red flag right from the start.

        • ethbr1 an hour ago

          Morals only matter when they restrain someone from doing something beneficial to themselves.

          Absent a stake in the outcome, it's just virtue signaling.

          And when Google was forced to choose between juicing ad revenue and its morals, it chose the former.

        • g-b-r 18 minutes ago

          And it was just something that some guy said in a meeting

      • kelipso 29 minutes ago

        That’s quite a bit different from helping to kill people.

        Let’s not lump every ethical issue into one. And not conflate SEO sleaze with aiding murder.

    • zobzu 6 minutes ago

      actually it was. they were no angels. but a majority of devs wanted to do good. now everyone wanta to make a quick buck no matter what.

      im surprised dave is still there too. probably can't let it go...

    • greenleafone7 12 minutes ago

      Truer words have never be told. It truly wasn't. Google had been rotten for a very long time.

    • skeeter2020 an hour ago

      "Google was a different company n years ago" where n is how long they've been there + ~6 to 12 months

    • bsimpson 28 minutes ago

      The employee experience was very different 9y ago.

    • szundi an hour ago

      16 years ago it was

  • mDyJzDPmBdG 3 hours ago

    Isn't his just weird repost of https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48496396 ?

    • bArray 3 hours ago

      Maybe send it out like a leak to get more attraction?

  • jnaina 4 hours ago

    moral clarity usually sharpens the moment the last RSU hits the brokerage account

    • DannyBee 2 hours ago

      Sometimes.

      Sometimes not.

      I left with more than 4 million in RSU's left.

      Pretty much any Googler who leaves will be leaving lots of money on the table.

      This is because they are usually 3/4 year grants, so it's pretty much impossible to leave without lots of unvested RSU.

      There are some 1 year grants, but those are much more uncommon (~1%)

      • zobzu 5 minutes ago

        same I left with approx that amount and when stock was still fairly low compared to today, so left life changing money. no ragrets lol.

      • colordrops an hour ago

        This must have been a long time ago? Because that's leaving over a billion dollars "on the table" at the current price.

        • pressbuttons 42 minutes ago

          "in RSUs", I think that meant $4M, not 4M shares.

      • ejoso 2 hours ago

        You realize how insanely privileged that is?

        Not just the facts but the frame. Amazing.

        • RHSeeger 2 hours ago

          And yet it directly speaks to the comment it was replying to. It makes the point that RSUs are generally multi-year; so if you're getting them with _any_ frequency, you never get to the point of "the last RSU vests".

          • ejoso an hour ago

            It remains privileged. I have my golden handcuffs too, probably most on HN do. That doesn’t change the reality expressed.

            • boringg 42 minutes ago

              But does it matter that it is or isn't privileged? Thats the root question. What are you trying to highlight?

              I have to assume you aren't trying to shame someone for moral opinion about talking about facts on the table - as that does 0 for any kind of public discourse.

              • ejoso 33 minutes ago

                Yes you’re right. I’m sure nothing good can come from recognizing privilege. Especially in a thread reeking of it with no one else mentioning it.

                You’re right sir.

                Nothing advanced here. I’ll get back to lashing myself for my insolence.

              • ejoso 39 minutes ago

                Lol JFC

          • close04 an hour ago

            I think the "last RSU" was more a figure of speech. At some point a person passes above an earnings level where they feel comfortable deactivating the "money making mode" and let their conscience speak.

          • skeeter2020 an hour ago

            almost like it's by design!

    • lulzury 3 hours ago

      Alphabet dropped “don’t be evil” from its moto in 2015. This guy went in knowing how the sausage was being made.

      • crispyambulance an hour ago

        Motto's, slogans, mission statements...

        All of these things are 100% bullshit and always have been. It's tragic that Google actually had people believing them when they championed "don't be evil".

      • john_strinlai 2 hours ago

        they did not. it’s still right there in the code of conduct

        https://abc.xyz/investor/board-and-governance/google-code-of...

        scroll to the bottom

        • nairboon 2 hours ago

          > scroll to the bottom

          that illustrates the point nicely...

          • ModernMech an hour ago

            "But the motto was on display..."

            "Yes, it was on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying 'Beware of the Leopard'."

        • watwut 2 hours ago

          That is not corporate motto.

          • john_strinlai 2 hours ago

            the motto was always a part of the code of conduct (it was the preface), it just moved from google's to alphabet's when it became a subsidiary.

      • rvz 3 hours ago

        Maybe they should not have joined the company in the first place if they had "morals" or "principles". Yet they still joined in 2017 even after knowing that slogan was removed anyway.

        Company mottos, principles, slogans and values are all fake fronts to lure in these sort of people alongside the free food with the carrots on those sticks.

        Once that all runs out or the company goes south and stops being a daycare, then they start doing silly virtue signalling posts like this.

        Now you are seeing who was there for the 'good vibes', free food, rest n' vest and who was there to keep the company alive.

        ...And finally we know that this is a love letter to get themselves hired at Anthropic. I think you might need more than that honestly.

    • debo_ 2 hours ago

      Post-deposit clarity

    • ProllyInfamous 2 hours ago

      >*"You cannot explain something to somebody whose livelihood depends upon [others] not understanding..."

      Something. $omething. something. $teinbeck?

    • honeybadger1 an hour ago

      yep, and happy to make everyone around them feel guilty when they got theirs. i strongly dislike people who do this performative crap while unfortunately believing in their right to say it.

    • throwaway2037 an hour ago

      Exactly.

      <rant> I am so tired of reading these stupid "why I am leaving my job after making millions". One thing I can say about myself: I work for money. That's it. Lots of things the companies that I work for (normally 25,000+ employees) do immoral and unethical things. Still, I stay, earn money, and I don't write stupid fucking self-righteous blog posts after I leave. At this point, blog posts like this look like an "own goal". </rant>

      • BikiniPrince an hour ago

        Also his complaints about morale compass failure are largely activism goals. Hard to make money when you waste it.

        I tell employers I’m clearly a mercenary and I am only here for the money. I do great work, but I’ve been compensated well.

  • BLKNSLVR 3 hours ago

    Whilst I appreciate the commitment to their values, I wonder where they stand on the 'safety' of their users as it relates to the Android Developer Verification update (currently top of HN, here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48755965).

    "Security" vs Openness

    > “make things so secure that we ourselves can’t break them, whether the device costs $1000 or $100, or the user is a celebrity or a refugee“

    That can mean different things to different people in different contexts. Could easily mean building a software platform with security features that banks will build their apps to require.

    • jasonvorhe 3 hours ago

      That is wasn't even covered says enough for me.

  • Bluescreenbuddy an hour ago

    Google never had a moral compass. They went in, got their money, and left when it was easy and barely affected them. They still profited.

  • tpoacher 21 minutes ago

    > Google Management Has Lost Its Moral Compass

    This needs a "2004" date.

  • hadi77ir 2 hours ago

    he resigned because of... "politics"? and not because of the path Google has chosen for Android security?

    • zobzu 4 minutes ago

      i know right. i imagine they were other reasons and this one sounded nice to share on a public doc tbh.

    • rpdillon an hour ago

      The only stated reason for his resignation is that Google is no longer adhering to their promise to not use AI for weapons. I was surprised that the reasoning was so one-dimensional.

      • datakan an hour ago

        While I don't agree with the author exactly, I do admire someone sticking to their guns (no pun intended). Like Oscar Wild said, "Morality, like art requires drawing a line somewhere".

        One of my favorite 80's movies was Real Genius with Val Kilmer. He accidentally helps develop a weapon and then goes to extreme measures to prevent its use. For some people creating weapons is a line they wont cross and that's not a bad thing.

    • KKKKkkkk1 27 minutes ago

      The actual reason is right at the top: he's a director who was "promoted" to IC.

    • jasonlotito 42 minutes ago

      He has not been responsible for Android Security since 2019.

      https://www.mayrhofer.eu.org/post/leaving-google/

    • vrganj 2 hours ago

      They are one and the same.

  • kyleblarson 10 minutes ago

    "Enough of my equity has vested, virtue signal engage."

  • robotmaxtron 3 hours ago

    google used to be cool

    • Aldipower 2 hours ago

      25 years ago

    • WarmWash 35 minutes ago

      They should have stuck with the charging money model instead of giving away services for the cost of attention.

      There is a deep irony in Google becoming one of the greatest corporations ever on the back of an ostensibly socialist utopia business model. Everyone on earth with an internet connection can use the full suite of google products (which pretty much every person reading this chooses to use daily) without having social class be a limiting factor like it is with paid services. Litterally anyone with internet can access and use the same youtube and office suite that a billionaire on his yacht is using (perhaps the billionaire has yt premium though).

      And here we are, 25 years later, and google is considered one of the most evil and malicious corporations, despite most people never paying them anything (and a large subset of those never loading one of their ads either).

      From a high level POV, its an incredibly perplexing outcome. Compared to someone like Apple, who charges money, has zero openness, and prices to align with first world upper class, still being largely beloved.

      • Aldipower 12 minutes ago

        You know, Google hinders competition. They are so powerful, they dictate the rules. If you do not play by Google's rules and align to their algorithms, you are allowed to consume, but not to provide. You have to pay them and others to even gain a small amount of visibility in their search results. The Google and YouTube algos are unfair as f*ck and promote the already successful.

        Your comment in itself is deeply ironic.

    • DonHopkins an hour ago

      Not as cool as Yahoo! used to be.

  • Alien1Being 23 minutes ago

    A typical case of false nostalgia for something that never existed .

  • ChrisArchitect 2 hours ago

    [dupe] Discussion on website source: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48496396

  • AlexandrB 2 hours ago

    Why is this a Google doc and not just an HTML page? I was super-confused when the links didn't behave like normal links. This is like when people post a screenshot of an Apple note.

  • vrganj 4 hours ago

    This mirrors my own experience as a European that worked at FAANG in the Bay Area.

    It used to be a dream job. Now I've relocated back to Europe and want nothing to do with American Big Tech. It's become toxic and completely counter to my values.

    America has become a much darker place that has a very different place in the world. American tech companies have not just accepted, but actively embraced this transition. I am not interested in joining them and being complicit.

    • sailfast an hour ago

      European companies aren’t much different so just be sure to check where you stand first before you’re SURE you’ve actually escaped.

    • jonnybgood 3 hours ago

      Darker than what other point in America’s history?

      • wvh 3 hours ago

        Perhaps darker than the initial mild optimism of the early internet.

        • smackeyacky 2 hours ago

          It is easy to forget US history as the vast majority of us have only been exposed to the 1960s to 2000s era which in retrospect seem like an anomaly.

          • gregw2 2 hours ago

            It's an interesting time window you chose. Why would there be an anomaly during that window (if there is one)?

            Perhaps it is due to the outward-facing, civic-oriented values coming out of WW2?

            There was a lot of reflection in America on what went wrong in German pre-war thinking and culture coming out of that period.

            The WW2 men in their 20s in 1940 were in their 40s in 1960s and their political power would have kept growing through peer older politicians into the 90s.

    • Laurel1234 2 hours ago

      I'm glad to see Europeans wising up about the US. But as a Latin American whose country suffered from the US-backed Operation Condor, Yankees being soulless subhuman scum is nothing new. Europe was just too glad to reap the benefits as US allies to care about the truth.

      The CIA instigated a coup in Guatemala in '54 which led to a civil war and the Maya genocide.

      • sailfast an hour ago

        BIT of a broad brush there but we can take the critique.

        While we vote for our leaders we don’t exactly get a say or have awareness of what sort of covert bullshit some over eager Yale graduate is doing as a top secret operation.

        • g-b-r 5 minutes ago

          You're free to protest and do many other things besides voting

  • jqpabc123 3 hours ago

    "Don't be evil" was just a diversion from a path that was laid out from the beginning.

    And it worked --- for a while. Until the path became impossible to deny.

    • jasonvorhe 3 hours ago

      Yeah, I'm sure the "don't be evil" charade was good marketing from the get-go or else they would've never taken In-Q-Tel funding.

  • cmrdporcupine an hour ago

    I came to Google via acquisition end of 2011 and left end of 2021. Google bought my employer so it could further cement its display ads monopoly. They never had a moral compass, they just wore one in a costume so that nobody would dig too closely into their business practices.

    We got to wave pitchforks and ask tough questions at TGIF for a while, and march in pride parades under a Google banner, and get fed nice treats and the like but under it all was still just an old fashioned railway monopoly.

    A huge fire hose of cash that let it play in all sorts of domains and espouse some vaguely California Ideology liberal/libertarian ideals while doing it.

    But the moment that monopoly came under threat and the moment they felt they no longer needed the costume, it came off.

    Google never had a moral compass. Anybody who thought it did was naive. It's not possible for a corporate entity to have one.

  • bparsons an hour ago

    I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!

  • nekusar 27 minutes ago

    Uh, its a company. It never had a "moral compass". And if companies had any attributes at all, it would be a Psychopath.

    Maaaaaybe when Dunbar's lower number was 13, the people working did. When Dunbar's 150 was hit, sure they had " do no evil" but that was just marketing spiel.

    When they bought Doubleclick, that coffin was welded shut and thrown in the ocean. Only the rubes believed the adtech marketing shit.

  • raverbashing 4 hours ago

    While I can understand the concerns, I wouldn't use a google doc to air my grievances though

  • jongjong 2 hours ago

    It's a systemic issue unfortunately. When some of these unethical CEOs say that they feel like they have no control and that if they didn't do it, someone else would, I believe them and it makes sense. That's why they should try to reform the system.

  • FpUser an hour ago

    >" I still believe in Android as the (currently) best end-user facing operating system for mobile devices, with its balance between openness, flexibility, and security."

    I do not give a shit whether it is the best. If one can be cut off instantly by whims of some algo with no recourse - thank you but I'll pass. Yes I still use Android phone but mostly as phone, GPS and camera all of which can be replaced.

    I do not develop for Android or iOS exactly for the reason of not being in control. Stick to desktops, servers and browsers as deployment platforms

  • ubermonkey an hour ago

    This dude only now thinks Google has lost its moral compass? In 2026?

    Bruh.

    • nicolaslegland an hour ago

      "I bought this before we knew Elon was crazy"

  • innagadadavida 39 minutes ago

    > When Google offered me the job of Director of Android Platform Security in 2017, it was impossible to refuse. Yes, Trump was already president—my family and I had qualms—but he seemed contained, even ineffective.

    Why make this about trump and politics. It’s just a job.

    • ethagnawl 19 minutes ago

      > Why make this about trump and politics.

      They go on to explain exactly why in the fifth paragraph.

      > It’s just a job.

      Nobody operates in a vacuum.

    • vrganj 36 minutes ago

      > Why make this about trump and politics

      Because that's who and what you empower when you work for a company that works with said administration.

      > It’s just a job.

      So was being a concentration camp guard.

  • okokwhatever 2 hours ago

    Can anyone in this industry really say goodbye without posting it? We act like artists, believing our ideals will illuminate the world with our moral compass.

    This is surreal.

    • anon7000 an hour ago

      Not until tech companies stop pretending tech jobs are special. It’s part of the entire industry culture at this point that you join certain positions to “make a big difference.”

      Yet most startups are just b2b AI sass or whatever.

    • jasonlotito 39 minutes ago

      This was a post to colleagues.

      Someone else shared it out. Now, calm down. Your acting emotional. Maybe try smiling.

  • sherburt3 2 hours ago

    These tech-bro public resignations are so tedious. Ostensibly he seems fine with the existence of AI mass surveillance and AI powered murderbots but he just never envisioned a scenario where they would get used that wasn't congruent with his politics.

    • cma 2 hours ago

      Ratified treaties are the supreme law of the land and he's pointing out "all lawful uses" isn't what the admin says it is.

      • sherburt3 an hour ago

        That doesn't appear to be stopping the current administration. That's why I think you should be more concerned about the tools of oppression existing rather than the laws that govern them.

  • assimpleaspossi 2 hours ago

    The last time I worked for someone else was 1992 so one didn't really use personal sites like this where one would whine about why they left their job for all the world to see. We all have our reasons for quitting but something like this just gathers the "Yeah!!" crowd but no one gains anything from it and it's quickly forgotten.

    You've already forgotten the content of his post now. Right?

    • afavour 2 hours ago

      > The last time I worked for someone else was 1992

      Sometimes it’s fine to see a topic and tell yourself “I have no relevant knowledge in this area so I won’t comment”.

      • jofzar an hour ago

        1992 is actually insane, this is before common commercial email.

    • PedroBatista 2 hours ago

      Good for you, just try to remember those old days when you complained about bosses and "whine" about things to your friends and some work colleges about day to day stuff. Now think what you would say about a situation when you were fed up and had to quit because you couldn't take it anymore and every day you had these tasks going against your values ( doesn't matter if they are "right" or "wrong", they are yours ).

      Also, Google is a multi-billion dreadnought with hundreds of millions of dollars for PR, lawyers and lobbying every year. I'm sure they can take a post about someone "whining" and quitting their job in disagreement. Something tells me Google be fine...

    • john_strinlai 43 minutes ago

      >but no one gains anything from it

      venting can be helpful mentally/emotionally.

      readers can feel solidarity, comfort in a shared experience, etc.

    • jasonlotito 37 minutes ago

      This was a post shared with colleagues. Apparently, reaching out to colleagues and friends is verboten now?

      You are getting emotional. Maybe try calming down?

    • cyanydeez an hour ago

      everyone _works for someone else_, it's entirely about what the structure of that relationship is.

      You don't make your own food do you? Build your own car? Make your own git repos?

      Seems like you might want to have a better view about who you work for.

      • assimpleaspossi an hour ago

        Your comment has nothing to do with what I wrote.

  • loeber 43 minutes ago

    Pathetic whining. He's upset that Google abandoned their carbon-neutral goal? Welcome to the real world, adults deal in trade-offs, and Google must play in AI or resign itself from the future of technology. And similarly, America has military interests that demand the involvement of the private sector. You'd think that after four years of war a few hundred miles from Austria's borders, this man would start to get it. But he's still living in the ivory tower of luxury beliefs.

    • jhedwards 19 minutes ago

      This comment make a couple assumptions I don't agree with:

      1. That technological development and a "carbon neutral goal" are incompatible. Carbon neutrality is precisely a problem of technological development, with green energy, battery technology, and improving the grid all on the vanguard of modern technological development. The problems caused by global warming will only get more severe (even if they don't cause the apocalypse) and these technological issues will be correspondingly more important for the survival of any other tech that depends on energy.

      2. That America's military interests and private sector involvement are inevitable. I think that Google could influence an overly militaristic policy precisely by withholding support. We are _not_ a dictatorship where everyone and every institution must bend their will to the leader, and changes are in fact sometimes made through a show of resistance. This may be a somewhat naive view, but I think it's more correct than one that sees US politics as so inevitable that even Google has no choice but to fall in line. Sure, it would probably cost them to resist, but as another commenter pointed out: ethical decisions typically have a cost.

  • nla an hour ago

    I cannot imagine allowing identity politics to drive your career decisions.

    • n4r9 40 minutes ago

      I can't imagine ignoring personal ethics in career decisions. I also find it troubling when personal ethics are inaccurately dismissed as "identity politics". Supporting carbon-neutrality and rejecting military applications are clearly matters of personal ethics.

    • dTal 41 minutes ago

      They're resigning because Google is complicit in killing people. How is that "identity politics"? Do you just throw the word "identity" in there for no reason?

    • aoshifo 42 minutes ago

      Then, I'm sorry to say, you have no spine

    • IAmGraydon 32 minutes ago

      When you have no morals to speak of, it doesn't come up much.

    • vrganj 38 minutes ago

      I cannot imagine actively working towards what one believes would be a worse world.

      It's just regular politics, no identity involved. Everything is political - including our careers.

    • reducesuffering 34 minutes ago

      identity pol: "people organize and advocate based on shared demographic characteristics"

      What in this post is possibly identity politics? It sounds like personal ethics to me. I don't appreciate identity politics, and when you muddy the term with having a spine and anything you don't like you make it harder to debate the actual problems the term is normally associated with.

      • flyingcircus3 15 minutes ago

        The person youre replying to also employed the term TDS in recent comments, which I believe refers to Trump Devotion Syndrome.

        Muddying waters and making debate impossible are his goals. He hoped to antagonize everyone with his trigger word.

    • jazzypants 29 minutes ago

      "identity politics" is such a lame way of saying "having a conscience".

    • steele 41 minutes ago

      When did m'lord permit you to use that serf mind to imagine? Ethics are for brains but your lot are for grains.

      When you view someone's choices for purpose & ethical boundaries through a lens that presents as identity politics, you are revealing your alienation from civilization. Talent with basic freedoms can be selective about their pursuits. If you hold a idea that you are a mercenary or machinery, consider how useful that is to ambitious sociopaths that have abandoned civilization.