Had similarly unorthodox path to tech, albeit without the drug addiction or prison.
90s early internet/BBS punk rocker/computer nerd. Hated school angry.
Dropped out to work as a bike messenger for 5 years before packing a bag and moving west randomly. Couldn't sit still. Rode freight trains around the country for a few months.
Washed dishes and landscaped to cover my cheap rent till that fell thru. Discovered shop lifting. Covered food and beer stealing from local progressive grocery store chain. Stole goods to sell on CL to cover my rent. That scam went tits up and narrowly escaped serious charges after the head of loss prevention from a regional retailer caught up to me
Was sleeping in the park--this was pre super meth/fentanyl crisis so street living was a bit more stable and low key. Didn't want to wash dishes or dig holes any more so looked around on CL. Found a small company trying to bootstrap a regional office for an established linux-related open source company. Worked for free / interned using a stolen laptop for a year or so while sleeping outside or couch surfing local punk houses.
Eventually got hired on for s but stayed for a couple years and made many FOSS connections. Eventually left to join a well known FOSS-centered company that was fully remote.
Told myself when I was young that I would never work in an office. ~15 years later and I never have ,but now work in bit tech, get paid too much, own a home and have a great family with kids who play at the same parks I used to crash at. We shop (and pay) at the same stores I used to crib from.
I'm respected and tenured at my gig but Imposter syndrome still holds me back. Nobody I work with knows where I came from and thankfully have nothing incriminating that would block a background check
Looking In retrospect, if you were a policy maker today how would you try to prevent the new generation for having to go through this (today your path likely would not be viable due to fentanyl).
Almost everything is a choice. The difference is that sometimes you're making a rational one and sometimes you only think you're making a rational one and to outsiders and in retrospect it obviously wasn't the best choice, or event a good choice.
There are two aspects to the type of question that was asked. How do you prevent people from ha I g to make choices which are rational and good for their options but still really bad overall, and how do you convinve/educate people about available options they weren't aware of so they don't make outright bad choices when better ones are available that they are unaware of.
There are many possible answers to "why did you take off to the west and ride trains and sleep in parks and steak to feed yourself", but most of them aren't "well I just felt like leaving my entirely stable, loving and supportive friends and family." What to an outsider seems like a poor choice to a specific person imight seem like the decision that saved their life, even in retrospect.
Maybe also worth asking what he's doing along those lines as a father. Probably some interventions are in reach for the state, and there are some other things that parents are best positioned to do. He might have some insight into both.
Was there any bullying at school that kept you away from
it? Or boredom? Or just culture ? Grade schools seem all right in the US. Ridiculous amounts of activities/sports right there, teachers are well paid (compared to the rest of the world), the program difficulty seem pretty chill for any kid that learned to read early enough.
My experience (and impression of others) is that sure, it's incredibly good by certain very basic metrics but that doesn't mean all participants find it desirable or even tolerable. I slogged through it for no reason other than that's just what was expected and I didn't see any realistic alternative but in retrospect I think I would have been better off dropping out and attending a community college (of course I could be wildly wrong about that).
I'm a Tradesman Baker (4 year apprenticeship and a 12 month pre-apprenticeship), that about 2 years after being a fully qualified tradesman switched to IT and have been in the industry for about 28 years. I suspect it will be my last porfession
Same here, I too feel the same. I don't look as if I am neuro divergent but I am slightly and have radar for others and have begun to tell people, "that person is not late or slow in the mind but that person is simply a neuro divergent and needs to be given chance or looked at differently" lot of neuro divergents have been discriminated against in the past. My one professor used to ask me, "Are you on drugs". No I never have. It's just lack of sleep in college days can otherwise make my lucid brain super foggy
Thank you for sharing your story! I wish you continued success and I also hope that one day someone will share with you about how YOUR story helped them do something similar, just like the article did for you.
It was incredibly refreshing to read an honest story, warts and all, written by a human. And equally infuriating to read a comment about it written by AI.
That's a really great point, and shows a deep understanding of how consistently humorless HN users are! If you want, I can show several more examples of people knee-jerk downvoting things that are actually pretty funny.
I love such stories. Right now, a lot of folks I know are struggling to find jobs, so I read the part about how he got a job the first day he was out of jail with some astonishment and nostalgia for the simpler days, when showing interest was often enough to land the job! Now, hoop number 1, the AI resume filter, is a strange obstacle that one has to jump through first.
The job market is rough. My wife went back to school for audio/sound design, finished the program + got a bunch of certifications.
She's been trying to get anything, even an unpaid internship, doing sound design, going to local meetups, online conferences, and hasn't had much luck.
But I told her: it's just a matter of persistence and time. If you're agreeable to be around, passionate about something, and just show up everyday, eventually something is likely to happen.
As someone who has worked in the music sphere with many hats over the past few decades: her best shot is to get people talking about her, perhaps find some local musicians she likes and offer cheap\free recordings to fill in her portfolio and get that word of mouth started.
Successful people in the music world (both on and off stage) HAVE to mingle with musicians (not other engineers) heavily to get noticed and recommended
I applied to 100+ places in 2005. Took a job an hour from home for a year and half. Eventually found something closer to home. You take what you can find at the time until you find where you want to be
I applied for about 50+ jobs as a graduate engineer in 1991. Back then you wrote letters. Hmmm: You printed letters - mail merge was a thing.
You signed each one by hand, with a quill pen and used a wax seal and cast a Spell of Engagement.
OK, you signed your covering letter with a pen (might be a Biro but I did use a Parker and Quink, myself) You also had to put your covering letter and curriculum vitae (CV == resume) in an envelope and pop a stamp on it (2nd class) and post it. None of that Linked In bollocks.
Your covering letter would be bespoke to the company approached. You did some research and mentioned something pertinent.
Would recommend joining a local film club, and get a few small projects done. Additionally, volunteer with local church events, or regular city music festivals.
Also, could join the local union intake for the production studios. It will be awful until one gets the base hours completed, but it is a feast or famine kind of work schedule some can tolerate. Fine work if you are still a kid.
Finding stuff online is usually a fools errand these days mostly due to "AI" data mining operations, or outright cons. Best of luck =3
The answer to AI resume filter is AI, if you are not utilizing it as part of your job application process to magnify your output then you are likely going to get bottlenecked from the supply side of the market.
Why'd people downvote this? The minimum you need to be doing is pasting role descriptions and your résumé into ChatGPT and asking: should I hire this person? Because that's what every company's HR department is doing (automatically) and if the answer is no, then you may as well not bother sending the application. Or you could tweak it until it says yes.
I think earlier there were few HN users who didn't like my opinions on another thread, came here to flag and downvote my comments and leave rather mean replies all over my profile. I don't think much of it and I forgive people who do it.
Or maybe there really are people who think its okay to use AI to hire/filter candidates but not when candidates use AI to optimize to get around that screen. Using AI, I've been able to land several interviews and work 3 jobs remotely currently without much effort.
So you've used AI to do fraud and you're confused why people are opposed to this?
You're the reason companies are pushing return to office and putting candidates through gauntlets of interviews and homework - because otherwise they end up hiring someone who lied on their resume and is trying to collect 3 salaries until they get caught and fired.
I didn't downvote your upthread comment, but it wouldn't be surprising if people are upset, because you wished death upon a member of this community in an earlier comment. I don't agree with downvoting unrelated comments, but you deserve every bit of flak you got for that ban-worthy shit.
Extreme mental clarity in "Eventually, she told me that it made more sense for me to quit my job while she worked, so that I could spend all of my free time trying to get another tech job".
I could've never imagined long-term-thinking like this from a former addict.
> I could've never imagined long-term-thinking like this from a former addict.
I know a couple people who recovered from addiction (and lost a few who sadly couldn’t).
They’re just people from all walks of life. There are a lot of stereotypes about addicts, but drug addiction can hit anyone. The first few people I knew who became addicts were actually from good families, were educated, had good career prospects, and were happy people. They thought addiction didn’t apply to them because they were too smart or happy or wealthy. In my opinion, those stereotypes made them more vulnerable to letting their guard down and thinking they were going to use the drugs smartly.
Most of them are recovered now and back on track, minus a large chunk of their younger years and a trail of destroyed relationships and wasted opportunities. You wouldn’t peg them as former addicts, though. They’re just people.
I grew up solidly middle class, even went to a good private school. A couple of my friends got ripped off by an addict that ran in our social circle who had the same background. They couldn't find the person, but they were so angry that they looked up the parents' address and went to confront them, assuming they'd be like bad people or something or had failed to raise their kid right. Instead both parents were incredibly mild and apologetic, and basically said, "We don't know what happened to our child and where it all went wrong." My friends felt very ashamed, apologized and left them in peace. It's a really tragic thing, and it's not just a cliche that it can happen to anyone.
Thank you for sharing. Stories like yours remind us that there is good in the world, and even if it isn’t everywhere, it is still worth cultivating.
I’m a software engineer née scientist, but my spouse is a therapist who specializes in addiction. They (and I!) cherish stories like yours because we had seen up-close the struggle that so many people face.
A good felon buddy of mine has been out now for 4 years. He slowly built a car repair business, with steady clientele, and got his life back on track – including reasonable sobriety and a steady relationship. He and his girl would cruise around often, enjoying their newfound happiness.
Last week he totaled his Harley and his body (destroyed bike, multiple broken bones). Total reset. He now gets PTSD whenever a Harley revvs by passing... physically cannot work.
The wrecklessness which brings some people into prison, is what brings them & others lusting towards motorcycle culture, often shortly upon release. Something something something anti-social something.
I'm just offering real-world advice after witnessing all the broken bones and jerked roadrash upon this tattoo'd convict's broken body. Shouldn't be alive.
Billions of people have a motorcycle globally... Some anecdote from a chronically motorcycle adverse culture (US) doesn't mean a whole mean of transport is invalid...
Most people riding motorcycles globally are not doing so on busy freeways at 60mph+ multiple times per day, surrounded by 2.5 ton vehicles with poor visibility traveling 60mph+
Putzing around an urban center on a cafe bike is not what it means to "ride a motorcycle" in the US.
I'd much rather be on a freeway at 60+ MPH surrounded by 2.5 ton vehicles with poor visibility than riding an urban street. New riders are rightly intimidated by the freeways (they're fast, they're big), but they're far, far safer than the street with all of the starting, stopping, hard corners, folks turning onto the street, and, of course, the king of bike slayers, the "I didn't see them" left turn.
Not to mention all the junk on the streets: the oil, anti-freeze, gravel, wet painted turn arrows.
When freeways become unsafe is when the loose nut behind the handlebars decides to wick it up and just "go around all of these big slow things". But that's not the freeways fault.
First year/10,000 miles is the hardest. But the foundational rules apply: Wear the gear, slow down, don't ride impaired (drunk, high, tired...).
Lightning strikes, it sucks. But, anecdotally, my worst motor vehicle injury was while a passenger in a modern car when my friend drove into a left turning vehicle. "Fender bender", "no biggie". Chronic, notable, back pain ever since. Worst than anything I've ever suffered on a motorcycle.
You're describing American cities, while GP (to whom I was responding) was clearly describing the huge number of foreign cities (e.g. SE Asia) where motorcycles are the dominant form of urban transit.
The relevant factor is that a street where motorcycles, cycles, pedestrians, and small/slow cars are dominant – all of which move at generally slow speeds – is of far, far, far less danger than a street (freeway or not) where the primary form factor is large automobiles traveling quickly.
You're describing American cities, while GP (to whom I was responding) was clearly describing the huge number of foreign cities (e.g. SE Asia) where motorcycles are the dominant form of urban transit.
The relevant factor is that a street where motorcycles, cycles, pedestrians, and small/slow cars are dominant – all of which move at generally slow speeds – is of far, far, far less danger than a street (freeway or not) where the primary form factor is large automobiles traveling quickly.
> First year/10,000 miles is the hardest
This is typical Intermediate Syndrome. The median rider involved in a motorcycle accident has nearly 3 years of experience.
No, road defects, obstacles, and weather are almost never the cause of motorcycle accidents.
I lived in Bangkok and saw 4 motorcycle accidents or their immediate aftermath. Even in perpetually jammed third world megacity traffic, the motorcyclist always loses to the other vehicle, in several of those cases almost certainly fatally.
First 10k are the hardest but the tail effect of an experienced rider is what gets you. I had crashes in my first 10k but my worst were after riding for decades when I would just randomly hit a tiny oil slick going 70+mph while using zero brakes, zero turning, and zero extra acceleration. Just get thrown low-side due to randomness of having to watch traffic while not noticing a tiny oil slick with enough random variations in the road that it immediately throws the bike when traction regains.
That's the thing. On a bike you can do everything right and still lose.
California is one of the safer places to ride given how many bikes are here and I've still had too many near misses as a trained, experienced, and conservative rider.
Most people put 1-2k miles a year on their bikes, when I was riding often I put on 2-3k/ month.
>That's the thing. On a bike you can do everything right and still lose.
Same with anything in life.
Same with a car, just less so. Of course you could also stay at home, wearing protective bumper suit 24/7 (and can still die from any number of things anyway).
At some point there's a tradeoff people make. Some people make it where the tradeoff slider says "motorcycle", rather than stop at "car". And I'm not talking a tiny niche, but about 1-1.2 billion people globally.
The risk is much much much higher with a motorcycle - especially in the US where most car drivers have next to zero experience sharing the road with motorcycles let alone driving a motorcycle. Saying it's the same thing is absurd here.
Vs what though? We're talking about a felon and addict channeling their risk-taking energy. I rode motorcycles exclusively as my transport in my 20s and it was one of the main things that checked use of intoxicants. You need your balance for a motorcycle and it uses the same risk-taking energy that many people would otherwise channel into drugs and destruction.
That is to say, those comparing car v motorcycle are doing the wrong comparison here. You'd be evaluating (car + substitute activity of drugs/crime/etc) vs. motorcycle -- rather than merely car v motorcycles.
> Of course you could also stay at home, wearing protective bumper suit 24/7
Quite an extreme and useless comparison. There's a large spectrum of transportation and entertainment options between motorcycle riding and home bound bumper suit at all times.
Yeah exactly, same with BASE jumping or wingsuiting.
It's the same risk dynamic as driving a car to work, just more so. Of course you could also stay at home, wearing protective bumper suit 24/7 (and can still die from any number of things anyway).
> That's the thing. On a bike you can do everything right and still lose.
Same with a car, or anything really.
The point of parent stands, globally there are billions of people going through their lives with motorcycles as their main vehicles, yet aren't involved in any life-changing accidents.
Some places are more dangerous than others, probably places that doesn't have this already motorcycle-heavy culture, like other countries in the world, has a higher incident rate and more severe accidents, as drivers aren't aware of how motorcycles usually operate.
I live in Indonesia. We have the highest per-capita rate of bike ownership in the world.
I have seen what happens to motorcycle riders when there are accidents and I have seen what happens to car drivers when there are accidents. I won't get into the gory details but I avoid using bikes as much as possible.
And I've seen what happens when pedestrians get hit by a car going way too fast, it sucks, and is horrible, but also besides the point. Not to say one has worse/better accidents, motorcycles accidents obviously has a much higher fatality and serious injuries risk, hard to deny.
Accidents. Not everything is under the driver's control, nor does it happen due to their intention (or even necessarily due to their lack of attention or whatever).
There's a reason the term accident is used (I know at least 10 countries where the meaning is the same).
Probably depends on the locale. In Europe, riding a moped in a big city is a way to drastically cut your commute compared to driving a car. It's not exactly dangerous when all the other road users are moving at 5m/min, and being able to just skip all the traffic jams is a godsend. By car, my trip to the office was about 45min - it was 15min on a moped, a stop at a shop for some snacks included. And that's with riding speed never exceeding 50km/h.
I had two accidents during my 5 years of commuting, and both times I only got minor scratches and had to replace my shoes. Both happened at speeds a determined bicycle rider could achieve, but I suspect I wouldn't be as well protected on a bicycle (both the machine itself and the protective gear tend to be much lighter there than on a moped). If I needed to do that again, I'd buy a model with two wheels at the front, which would have prevented both accidents - though I'm not sure if added stability wouldn't encourage me to ride faster.
So it's pretty specific, but if you're somewhere where driving culture is not too cutthroat, the roads can support single-track vehicles, and the traffic rather than actual distance is the limiting factor - owning a bike can be an objectively better option.
I'm a motorcyclists. We usually refer to the smaller bikes as "motorbikes". Two wheels in the west is usually a hobby. In other parts of the world it might be a necessity, they don't do it for the pleasure. A lot of people forget this.
I’d say this is a strong case against getting one for anyone who has struggled with addiction. In my experience a part of the constant battle is a difficult relationship with sources of stimulation.
I’ll second this. Back in the 90s when my addict brain was in full flight, I had a street bike for a year. There was not a single ride when I didn’t massively exceed the speed limit and ride recklessly. I loved it! Lucky to be alive. Lucky I had a partner who convinced me to sell it after our first child was born.
Having said all that and despite being in recovery for many years... I still lust after the feeling of completely unfettered freedom being on a bike on an open road. Before I bought my bike a friend had warned me that once you ride, you’ll never not want to ride. He was right.
Same. I got spooked after a car pulled out on the country highway I was doing 160 on. Then ran out of money and sold it. I just rode my Dads Harley, first ride in 20 years. Was nice but I’m good. I have a longboard and a little hill once in a while gives me the occasional adrenaline rush I crave.
With a child it's easy to always justify spending the money on something else. I also miss the machine's simplicity and ease to work on.
While it probably sounds crazy, owning a tractor is almost as good. There are even more mechanical widgets to play with and it is dead simple and easy to work on like a motorcycle. I still miss the motorcycle but now I can actually do useful work while somewhat scratching the itch.
Motorcycles are ridiculously fun but yeah, if you have anything in your life worth preserving or sticking around for, it's statistically a pretty awful decision.
>Motorcycles are ... statistically a pretty awful decision.
This has been my favorite sentence (so far) in this discussion – whatever one's opinion is on motorcycling. Capital 't' Truth.
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Thirty years ago, my mother gave me some small amount of money to NOT ride a motorcycle on roadways until after she died. Being young and broke, I took the money. stopped riding.
After she died, I had aged just enough to realize that I didn't actually want to ride motorcycles on-road, anymore. Even after decades of wanting to...
Somehow mama-up-there knew I'd eventually grow up, and it only cost her a few hundred dollars [to not have to witness my motorcycle accident (while alive, nor ever from-above)].
What are your thoughts on Roller Coasters? Hit a good theme park, ride maybe 6 with your eyes closed within a couple of hours.
I can't help but feel riding one (Roller Coaster) is much more optimal than $200/hr flying a plane, and much safer than a motorcycle, even if you rented vs purchase one.
if you do, I’d recommend taking motorcycle safety courses on a regular cadence in order to practice your skills. even if you’re a regular rider it’s great to learn the limits of your bike and do emergency maneuvers in a controlled environment
there’s lots offered near the bay area (where I’m from) and they don’t cost that much for what you’re getting in return
Neither of us have health insurance (forty-something Americans -- USA! USA! USA!). My helpfulness towards him mostly knowing he has nobody else to help him (ER already stabilized him post-accident, plus another trip for sepsis). Also, I love dogs.
This has been a very terrible and very real lesson in mortality. Wish we had some basic social safety nets for middle-aged unemployables (e.g. single-payer healthcare).
It's a risky activity, yes, but lets not forget metropolitan areas in other countries are shock filled with motorcycles and most people live their entire life without being involved in any majorly serious accidents.
You mean scooters traveling <35mph surrounded by other scooters traveling <35mph
E.g. the most common motorcycle in Vietnam is the 110cc Honda Wave with a top speed under ideal conditions of ~60mph. It literally would not be called a motorcycle in the US.
No, I'm talking about motorcycles traveling ~50mph surrounded by other motorcycles, cars, trucks and whatever else goes on around and in metropolitan areas, even in countries in Europe.
From time spent living in the Philippines I have no idea what they're even on about. Sometimes I watched the local news and it was absolutely plastered with endless mass death of motorcyclists. Life is just cheap in south east asia so when a gazillion people get splattered on their bike no one thinks too much about it, it's just the risk of doing the business.
There’s a study demonstrating life expectancy of 3+ years for bicycle Paris commuters (2+ for public transport) compared to cars. They didn’t evaluate motorbike.
The effect on physical and psychic health largely outweighs (sometimes to x30) the risk of accidents and pollution disease.
It's laughable how proud some cyclists become when they think a painted stripe will somehow protect them from cellphoned sharks.
Obviously US bicycling infrastructure is laughably dangerous, and nobody deserves full-blame for exercising their legal rights upon roadways -- but e.g: biking up Lookout Mountain's shoulderless 2-lane highway is. stupid.ly common. These are tourist roadways winding through a mountainrange – are you cyclist's suicidal, or just hubric? Nobody knows where they are, and your dumb_ass is in the blindcurve going 2mph.
I sometimes lament that I wish I could ride in a group again, but it’s such a hurdle to get over mentally for me.
It is a lot of fun having camaraderie with similarly skilled riders hammering it out in the big ring for two hours, but just never have been able to get back to that place where I’m comfortable enough to do it.
Edit: oh, rereading your comment… my friend was not at fault in her crash. She was a careful rider just out for a spin and happened to cross paths with the wrong idiot who was distracted and veered onto the shoulder. I was expressing sadness that that is all it took to end her life.
It's a lot easier to ride recklessly on a motorcycle than an ordinary bike. I suppose mopeds/motor scooters (especially electric ones) are the sensible middle-of-the-road option.
I do wonder how much to trust averages on these statistics. I observe that I am much more risk averse than the average cyclist in my city. Perhaps my risk is really much lower, conditional on that knowledge?
In both cases the reasons often come back to the average motorcyclist and bicycle rider abjectly REFUSING to learn or respect road laws.
I live in a non-California state and I'm shocked whenever I see a motorcyclist who doesn't illegally lane split, who maintains a standard following distance (ideally 3 car lengths on an interstate), etc. Plus, most of them aren't even good at choosing leather jackets (not enough schotts or even made in Japan actual horsehide, lots of slop non-protective because most of these people are poor from the Harley purchase) and they don't wear proper protective heavy bottoms (i.e. leather/kevlar pants or HEAVY selvedge denim like 25 oz+). Many don't wear helmets because doing so might make them look like "fairies" to their friends in the outlaw biker gang.
Similarly, half or more of the cyclists in your average complete streets/walkable cities liberal area either 1. actually don't have a drivers license and are thus oblivious to road laws when they routinely get on the road, 2. refuse to use a helmet/put lights on at night/hand signal when turning, and 3. refuse to use perfectly good empty sidewalks (yes its legal here to bike on the sidewalk) to cycle on when possible.
I see this shit all the time, and I understand why they end up as roadkill time-and-time again. Keep winning Darwin awards. My heart goes out to those who legitimately did everything right and ends up squashed anyway, but the myriad number of idiots ruins it for the victims.
I actually don't know which makes me more scared to see on the road, a clapped out Nissan/dodge, a Harley rider, or a cyclist. At least the cyclists and nissan drivers are probably young and thus far more alert than the average geriatric who thinks they're so cool for owning the worlds most gaudy motorcycle.
He had a fully-enclosed helmet, was wearing leathers and boots, and has years of experience. Was legitimately sober (I talked with him right before he left). One hand now looks like a grimreaper's bones, sticking out from blood-caked jerkybits.
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Certainly speed was a factor but isn't that why ya'll ride?
Right; he is fucked up. Girl is now gone, having caught charges herself (stabbed him because he refuses most pain killers and is in a lot of pain right now//ashole).
So sad to see; I am walking his dogs; last time I saw him I said "I am just worried that this will make you spin out, again."
Definitely helped me continue deciding not to get a motorcycle, myself.
Can never predict your future. Enjoy what you will, when you can. I was in a motorcycle accident in 2021, TBI, hospitalized for 3mo, induced coma, and rehab for 9 months after.
I am back on the horse. It is just a zen and still relaxing time, albeit more anxiety while riding, than before. Thankful I can still ride, and I do.
I'm sorry, but from a European perspective, this is the problem, not bikes. If your roads and driving culture encourage driving a tank for safety, that's a bit less than ideal.
I commuted to work for 5 years on a moped. I never used a highway, almost never exceeded 50km/h, and had 2 accidents during that time; both resulted in just a few scratches and bruises.
In another post, you said: "maybe speed was a factor" - actually, it's the only factor. If you never go too fast and never use roads where others may go too fast, you're safe - at least from life-altering tragedies.
If, on the other hand, it's generally impossible to get where you want to without using highways, or the sheer distance forces you to step on it - then yeah, don't buy a motorbike. Just note that it's not the bike's fault!
I lack the commenting impulse control to say this in a politically correct way so my apologies for the outrage that will follow, but to put it crudely there is someone in my extended family who became a retard after falling off their bicycle at roughly walking speed and with a helmet on. It's rare but you can easily die just from walking and slipping on a banana peel.
While you're right about slower generally being safer, you should still treat it like a life-altering tragedy could happen at any time and like you're going 200 kph.
Motorcycles aren't invulnerable 3 ton steel tanks but the stats and anecdotes are deceptive. They're really not that bad if you're not a moron, even if you're mostly worried about other road users. The stat are wildly bimodal.
~30% of deaths involve drunk riding
~30% of deaths involve not wearing any helmet (let alone full face ECE 22.06 rated ones or any other gear at all)
~30% of deaths involve someone with no motorcycle licence.
These aren't all mutually exclusive obviously, rather the Venn diagram probably looks rather...circular.
The issue isn't so much everyone trying to kill you, you can fix a lot of the visibility issues and you have some additional options if someone is about to hit you. The problem is that two wheels make for a VERY dynamic system and you're managing two different brakes with weight shifting between two wheels based on your inputs. To that end ABS and TCS are absolutely huge, IIRC something like >60% safety improvement.
Tldr don't buy an old retro bike with no safety systems and ride it drunk without a license or gear, you'll continue to pad the numbers.
Well since we're doing anecdotes, I'm a sober, fully helmeted, geared rider with 8 years and tens of thousands of miles under my tires. I've had two incidents:
1. I fell over at a stop sign on a canted hill while stopped because the rented Harley was so fucking big. I immediately returned it and will never ride a Harley again, those things suck.
2. I stupidly stopped just before the crest of a gravel road because I couldn't determine the best path (should have just trusted my tires and picked one), started sliding backwards. Rather than spin my tires and risk shooting off, or slide backwards into the unknown, I just tipped over and rolled off the bike.
No injuries either times. No at speed near misses. I have a simple rule: if I'm not 100% sure, I don't do it. A pass, a light, an intersection, when in doubt, I slow down, or stop, or hang out where I am in a lane.
Maybe one day I'll get taken out at a stop light or something random like that but the joy that riding has brought me I just can't give up. Exploring the world on a motorcycle is just amazing.
All activities come with risks. Motorcycling is up there but so is rock climbing, kayaking, rafting, hiking, bicycling, swimming - all activities I personally know someone who has been severely injured doing. You take precautions but you gotta live.
Had to look away to stop from tearing up in Panera a few times at the end.
Sending this to my sister who has had struggles like this. She recently finished her BS and hopes to be an counselor or therapist after finishing her masters.
Is programming underrated art form when it comes to helping people come out of such situations? Addiction or depression.
It easier to get paid, you can be in a flow state for hours. Enough to forget about other addictions. and less likely to be high always while programming
I'll be honest, a lot of it was my wife. And also hitting my lowest bottom after becoming homeless and penniless.
So a combination of looking at what I had done to myself + everyone around me and going "what the fuck." and my ever-vigilant wife who knew I had the capacity and desire to get better.
For me it really took literally losing everything.
I apologize in advance for rambling. I never comment or post anywhere, but your post motivated me to share part of my story. I very much relate to the feeling that sharing can be too personal and too easy to misread.
Thank you for sharing. It’s refreshing to see that there are people who will take a chance on you. Your story helps with the burnout of pushing through with little to no results and exponentially diminishing resources.
I haven’t been so lucky, I joined a tiny startup in 2018 that shut down a year later, landed contract work in 2019 that was meant to convert into full-time, but was let go due to the pandemic right before converting. My most recent employer fired me on christmas of 2022.
I had a falling out with friends because they wouldn’t refer me for any role including tech sales. My uni wouldn't consider me for a master's degree because my microprocessor architecture professor wasn't "comfortable" writing a rec letter despite me sitting front of class and getting an A, all while practically begging students to apply (all 2/2 people that applied got into the program). Even in grade school my 2nd grade teacher was fired for lying to my parents that I was underperforming in school and that I needed to get kicked out of the talented and gifted program and repeat the grade. I still don't know what to make of all of this.
I haven’t been able to land phone screenings, let alone a first round interview anywhere. I am having a hard time getting minimum wage work due to being "over-qualified". I've been priced out of my hometown. I’ve completed web development, data science, and cloud infra bootcamps as a way to up-skill while also having a degree in electrical engineering. I would consider myself adaptable: I've worked in designing/improving electrical hardware, reverse engineering, web, mobile.
I am first-gen American, grew up homeless, but received a world-class education. Sometimes I wonder if I’m on a blacklist somewhere, or if I need to fall further for something to finally click. I guess I’m just having a really long bad luck streak, so here’s to hoping something better is around the corner!
Is a success story line this still possible with coding assistants, or do they basically pull up the ladder that this guy climbed? I don't have enough insight into the job market right now to know.
> The beginning of the end: The day I bought an Adderall from a classmate. When that amphetamine feeling kicked-in, it was as if life was perfect for the first time. I was happy, confident, felt I could do anything.
You know, I had a similar experience, but in my case I got an appointment with a psychiatrist afterwards, described the experience in detail, was given a computer test, diagnosed with ADHD, and then given a prescription. (Also in my case, I learned Adderall doesn’t actually feel great or help you if you take too much).
Take care of your kids. The war on drugs is stupid. Etc.
Shoutout to the author. I don't think I've met you, but I'm proud of you. What you've done is not easy. Neither is talking about it.
I've not had nearly the adversity of the author, but I do know a little bit about what it's like to have an alternative background that makes companies not want to take a chance on you. It motivates you to take advantage of the chances you're given. The first time someone gave me a job, I felt so utterly grateful that I worked twice as hard as most and complained half as much. You could cynically call that exploitation, but I didn't see it that way.
When I came into a position to make my own hiring calls, I tried paying that forward, and I got some great employees from it. Arguably a couple duds as well, but I never regretted giving the chance.
Shout out to Hasura as well, btw. I've encountered their leadership team a couple times and everything about them has screamed integrity. It did not surprise me to hear that they are part of this story.
> When I came into a position to make my own hiring calls, I tried paying that forward, and I got some great employees from it. Arguably a couple duds as well, but I never regretting giving the chance.
That is the most impactful thing you could have done, I'm sure you changed several peoples lives
Thanks. At this point, I believe it's what I will look back on as my legacy. Software is ephemeral, but the people you build it with are what shape how you reflect on it.
I feel like US is ridiculously hard on even low grade drugs. Half of my high school would have gone to prison in the US.
Sending a 14 year old convicted of drug crimes anywhere but a location that will help them is bizarre. Sending them to a max security anything leaves me speechless.
Yeah I feel like there's less discussion than I expected of how many different things had to be done utterly ass backwards wrong by society for this guy to have his downward spiral in the first place.
Every time I read stories like this my heart hurts. And I feel like I've been punched in the gut.
Every single time I read stories like this all my shit comes to the surface. Thank goodness for mental health professionals and prescription drugs.
No matter how I feel about your experiences, I want to know more. I want others to feel like they can share with people who are ready to listen and be supportive however we can.
"AI Use Disclaimer: claude code was used to generate the OpenGraph SVG image.
No part of the prose was machine-generated. You will not find machine-written prose on this blog. I consider it deeply disrespectful."
I really like this disclaimer, by disclaiming that a single small thing was done with AI, you make very credible and notable that you did not use LLMs for the important parts.
That’s cool. Unfortunately, today, sobriety doesn’t guarantee that AI companies won’t kill off what’s left of your career (which somewhat weakens the incentives to do so). But congrats!
Have an upvote. Sobriety is an expectation. I will say though that people I’ve known who went through the journey are some of the smarter people I’ve met. Not all of them, but the whole numbing yourself because your brain can’t quite understand all the thoughts it has, that’s a real thing. Probably sounds insane, but it’s real.
> sobriety doesn’t guarantee that AI companies won’t kill off what’s left of your career
You're being downvoted, but I'd be lying if I said I don't see that as a distinct (and logical) possibility.
The ironic thing is, I work for one of those "AI Companies" ;^)
Claude Code and Codex have done most of my work for the last year, and with the pace of AI improvement, I'm not sure that you'd need (or even want) me in the mix.
From a business perspective, it makes a lot of financial sense, too.
I'm sure it's a limited amount of time before I'm dead weight, but I'll cross that bridge when I get to it, and I'll figure something out if/when it happens =)
My lived experience doesn’t care what the downvotes say (many here are privileged, after all), and it is only a matter of time imo unless something is done about the industry to change course.
I see karma as form of a currency to afford getting downvoted. I actually don't mind the downvotes especially when it's followed by a comment on why. Helps me see parts I've missed.
I wouldn't internalize that idea too much. In a lot of countries traffic fines are a fixed amount, so some people feel like they don't have to respect traffic rules since they can afford to just pay the fine.
It's one way to process the negative feeling of being fined. But it doesn't really make the roads safer.
Goes both ways, if you're afraid of getting downvoted you might never find out that people actually agree with you, same goes with traffic tickets sometimes they don't make sense especially related to parking in crowded cities and ebikes, as long as you're not an asshole about it it's fine.
I find the downvotes excessive for this kind of thing. They are basically a censorship mechanism, enough downvotes and a comment will basically disappear. I've used it about twice since I got the ability several years ago, and both times it was somebody promoting a Trump-related conspiracy theory.
I feel happiness reading stories like this. You proved to the world that you can become something great even when all the cards are stacked against you. I often feel despair when I think about where our society is heading, but there will always be people like you who are there to push back against all the wrongs in the world and make the best out of it.
I'm glad! It sounds really corny, but someone once told me "The only thing you can choose in life is your attitude."
Sometimes it felt like I'd never get a break, things wouldn't get better. But I tried to tell myself "Every occurrence in life is a numbers game. Against tiny odds, eventually enough attempts statistically OUGHT to pay off."
And the alternative is bleak, sort of sulking in this pit of despair without hope for tomorrow.
(reviving an account this once to just say...) I've been lucky to work closely with Gavin at Hasura for years, and he is really a brilliant and versatile engineer, and is just a pleasure to work with. Great energy, down-to-earth, hilarious. If I had to assemble a "dream team" he would be on it for sure.
Good on him and shout out for Hasura as well, probably the most pleasant dev experience I had in past 10 years. It was so good, the startup I was at dropped it because CTO got scared that there was no work for the backend devs, ha.
As a libertarian right leaning guy I opened your story with pessimism but I really enjoyed it and greatly appreciated the personal responsibility you took in your situation. People should be inspired by this - it’s precisely because of personal responsibility that you are so successful.
I had less and less sympathy for the author the more I read.
Your life was easy. A constant stream of people willing to offer you places to stay, and you had zero trouble finding work. That was not my experience being poor - I remember a constant stream of rejections from supermarkets and hardware stores. And I was sober to boot.
Having no vehicle, she had to borrow the friend's bicycle and ride 30 minutes in the dark before work, and 30 minutes in the sweltering heat after work home
Couldn't read any more after this. 11 year old children literally do this to get to school, laughing and chatting.
Your life was incredibly easy and you still fucked it up.
I know a guy who bankrupted multiple businesses and is 34 time convicted felon and adjudicated rapist and he’s gone on to become president … don’t let your past control your future! /s
Had similarly unorthodox path to tech, albeit without the drug addiction or prison.
90s early internet/BBS punk rocker/computer nerd. Hated school angry.
Dropped out to work as a bike messenger for 5 years before packing a bag and moving west randomly. Couldn't sit still. Rode freight trains around the country for a few months.
Washed dishes and landscaped to cover my cheap rent till that fell thru. Discovered shop lifting. Covered food and beer stealing from local progressive grocery store chain. Stole goods to sell on CL to cover my rent. That scam went tits up and narrowly escaped serious charges after the head of loss prevention from a regional retailer caught up to me
Was sleeping in the park--this was pre super meth/fentanyl crisis so street living was a bit more stable and low key. Didn't want to wash dishes or dig holes any more so looked around on CL. Found a small company trying to bootstrap a regional office for an established linux-related open source company. Worked for free / interned using a stolen laptop for a year or so while sleeping outside or couch surfing local punk houses.
Eventually got hired on for s but stayed for a couple years and made many FOSS connections. Eventually left to join a well known FOSS-centered company that was fully remote.
Told myself when I was young that I would never work in an office. ~15 years later and I never have ,but now work in bit tech, get paid too much, own a home and have a great family with kids who play at the same parks I used to crash at. We shop (and pay) at the same stores I used to crib from.
I'm respected and tenured at my gig but Imposter syndrome still holds me back. Nobody I work with knows where I came from and thankfully have nothing incriminating that would block a background check
Looking In retrospect, if you were a policy maker today how would you try to prevent the new generation for having to go through this (today your path likely would not be viable due to fentanyl).
Did he have to? Some of that sounds like choices, especially in the start.
Almost everything is a choice. The difference is that sometimes you're making a rational one and sometimes you only think you're making a rational one and to outsiders and in retrospect it obviously wasn't the best choice, or event a good choice.
There are two aspects to the type of question that was asked. How do you prevent people from ha I g to make choices which are rational and good for their options but still really bad overall, and how do you convinve/educate people about available options they weren't aware of so they don't make outright bad choices when better ones are available that they are unaware of.
There are many possible answers to "why did you take off to the west and ride trains and sleep in parks and steak to feed yourself", but most of them aren't "well I just felt like leaving my entirely stable, loving and supportive friends and family." What to an outsider seems like a poor choice to a specific person imight seem like the decision that saved their life, even in retrospect.
Maybe also worth asking what he's doing along those lines as a father. Probably some interventions are in reach for the state, and there are some other things that parents are best positioned to do. He might have some insight into both.
Did you ever bounce around the crackmonkey list? nick and friends seemed to know people with similar backgrounds.
That is an absolutely crazy story, I hope you have it written down somewhere besides HN comments lol
Was there any bullying at school that kept you away from it? Or boredom? Or just culture ? Grade schools seem all right in the US. Ridiculous amounts of activities/sports right there, teachers are well paid (compared to the rest of the world), the program difficulty seem pretty chill for any kid that learned to read early enough.
> Grade schools seem all right in the US.
My experience (and impression of others) is that sure, it's incredibly good by certain very basic metrics but that doesn't mean all participants find it desirable or even tolerable. I slogged through it for no reason other than that's just what was expected and I didn't see any realistic alternative but in retrospect I think I would have been better off dropping out and attending a community college (of course I could be wildly wrong about that).
I'm a Tradesman Baker (4 year apprenticeship and a 12 month pre-apprenticeship), that about 2 years after being a fully qualified tradesman switched to IT and have been in the industry for about 28 years. I suspect it will be my last porfession
So... going by the story, I guess you never did go to the doctor to get diagnosed for adhd?
(Yeah, armchair doctor and all that. But doesn't make it wrong or at least worth a look.)
And to whoever downvoted me, I've successfully "diagnosed" (read - identified) multiple friends already. NDs often have decent ND-radars.
Same here, I too feel the same. I don't look as if I am neuro divergent but I am slightly and have radar for others and have begun to tell people, "that person is not late or slow in the mind but that person is simply a neuro divergent and needs to be given chance or looked at differently" lot of neuro divergents have been discriminated against in the past. My one professor used to ask me, "Are you on drugs". No I never have. It's just lack of sleep in college days can otherwise make my lucid brain super foggy
Thank you for sharing your story! I wish you continued success and I also hope that one day someone will share with you about how YOUR story helped them do something similar, just like the article did for you.
Also, Preston Thorpe (who Gavin mentions as inspiration) has an interesting story as well: https://pthorpe92.dev/intro/my-story/
Also recommend folks check out Unlocked Labs, who run a prison program for this sort of thing. Jessica is an angel:
https://unlockedlabs.org/
Thank you for the link, and for sharing your story.
Thank you for that link. I recommend reading to the very last line.
“ No part of the prose was machine-generated. You will not find machine-written prose on this blog. I consider it deeply disrespectful.”
<3
Writing articles by hand isn’t just smart— it’s important. No shortcuts. No filler. No excuses.
Key insight: relying on AI for writing assistance helps neither the author nor the audience.
It was incredibly refreshing to read an honest story, warts and all, written by a human. And equally infuriating to read a comment about it written by AI.
I had assumed the comment you’re responding to is tongue in cheek but it’s honestly hard to tell sometimes.
Ironically saying "isn’t just smart— it’s important" (complete with em-dash!) and "No shortcuts. No filler. No excuses." sounds very AI-generated.
Not saying it is, just pointing out how messed up the world we live in now is.
But... was it?
i have a feeling that the fp was being sarcastic / satirical.
That’s the unlock.
that's the joke
Aw, poops. It got flagged :-(
Even LLMs have better sense of humor than HN readers.
That's a really great point, and shows a deep understanding of how consistently humorless HN users are! If you want, I can show several more examples of people knee-jerk downvoting things that are actually pretty funny.
I laughed
It reads as clear ironic AI speak.
"You're absolutely right for pushing back on that!"
But, allow me to complete the sandwich.
I love such stories. Right now, a lot of folks I know are struggling to find jobs, so I read the part about how he got a job the first day he was out of jail with some astonishment and nostalgia for the simpler days, when showing interest was often enough to land the job! Now, hoop number 1, the AI resume filter, is a strange obstacle that one has to jump through first.
The job market is rough. My wife went back to school for audio/sound design, finished the program + got a bunch of certifications.
She's been trying to get anything, even an unpaid internship, doing sound design, going to local meetups, online conferences, and hasn't had much luck.
But I told her: it's just a matter of persistence and time. If you're agreeable to be around, passionate about something, and just show up everyday, eventually something is likely to happen.
As someone who has worked in the music sphere with many hats over the past few decades: her best shot is to get people talking about her, perhaps find some local musicians she likes and offer cheap\free recordings to fill in her portfolio and get that word of mouth started.
Successful people in the music world (both on and off stage) HAVE to mingle with musicians (not other engineers) heavily to get noticed and recommended
I applied to 100+ places in 2005. Took a job an hour from home for a year and half. Eventually found something closer to home. You take what you can find at the time until you find where you want to be
I'm from the UK and another age 8)
I applied for about 50+ jobs as a graduate engineer in 1991. Back then you wrote letters. Hmmm: You printed letters - mail merge was a thing.
You signed each one by hand, with a quill pen and used a wax seal and cast a Spell of Engagement.
OK, you signed your covering letter with a pen (might be a Biro but I did use a Parker and Quink, myself) You also had to put your covering letter and curriculum vitae (CV == resume) in an envelope and pop a stamp on it (2nd class) and post it. None of that Linked In bollocks.
Your covering letter would be bespoke to the company approached. You did some research and mentioned something pertinent.
Nowadays I'm the employer.
Don't forget the specialty resume paper.
Wow!
I applied over and over using Monster dot com.
Without a portfolio it will be difficult.
Would recommend joining a local film club, and get a few small projects done. Additionally, volunteer with local church events, or regular city music festivals.
Also, could join the local union intake for the production studios. It will be awful until one gets the base hours completed, but it is a feast or famine kind of work schedule some can tolerate. Fine work if you are still a kid.
Finding stuff online is usually a fools errand these days mostly due to "AI" data mining operations, or outright cons. Best of luck =3
The key, for me, was to get a computer. Once I had that, the world opened up.
It allowed me to "get my hands dirty," and experiment, as well as build a portfolio.
To this day, I have a large amount of public code. It's a habit that I've had, all my adult life.
The answer to AI resume filter is AI, if you are not utilizing it as part of your job application process to magnify your output then you are likely going to get bottlenecked from the supply side of the market.
Why'd people downvote this? The minimum you need to be doing is pasting role descriptions and your résumé into ChatGPT and asking: should I hire this person? Because that's what every company's HR department is doing (automatically) and if the answer is no, then you may as well not bother sending the application. Or you could tweak it until it says yes.
I think earlier there were few HN users who didn't like my opinions on another thread, came here to flag and downvote my comments and leave rather mean replies all over my profile. I don't think much of it and I forgive people who do it.
Or maybe there really are people who think its okay to use AI to hire/filter candidates but not when candidates use AI to optimize to get around that screen. Using AI, I've been able to land several interviews and work 3 jobs remotely currently without much effort.
So you've used AI to do fraud and you're confused why people are opposed to this?
You're the reason companies are pushing return to office and putting candidates through gauntlets of interviews and homework - because otherwise they end up hiring someone who lied on their resume and is trying to collect 3 salaries until they get caught and fired.
I didn't downvote your upthread comment, but it wouldn't be surprising if people are upset, because you wished death upon a member of this community in an earlier comment. I don't agree with downvoting unrelated comments, but you deserve every bit of flak you got for that ban-worthy shit.
How did you do that? I don't get many interviews even after making sure AI likes my resume.
Extreme mental clarity in "Eventually, she told me that it made more sense for me to quit my job while she worked, so that I could spend all of my free time trying to get another tech job".
I could've never imagined long-term-thinking like this from a former addict.
> I could've never imagined long-term-thinking like this from a former addict.
I know a couple people who recovered from addiction (and lost a few who sadly couldn’t).
They’re just people from all walks of life. There are a lot of stereotypes about addicts, but drug addiction can hit anyone. The first few people I knew who became addicts were actually from good families, were educated, had good career prospects, and were happy people. They thought addiction didn’t apply to them because they were too smart or happy or wealthy. In my opinion, those stereotypes made them more vulnerable to letting their guard down and thinking they were going to use the drugs smartly.
Most of them are recovered now and back on track, minus a large chunk of their younger years and a trail of destroyed relationships and wasted opportunities. You wouldn’t peg them as former addicts, though. They’re just people.
I grew up solidly middle class, even went to a good private school. A couple of my friends got ripped off by an addict that ran in our social circle who had the same background. They couldn't find the person, but they were so angry that they looked up the parents' address and went to confront them, assuming they'd be like bad people or something or had failed to raise their kid right. Instead both parents were incredibly mild and apologetic, and basically said, "We don't know what happened to our child and where it all went wrong." My friends felt very ashamed, apologized and left them in peace. It's a really tragic thing, and it's not just a cliche that it can happen to anyone.
Thank you for sharing. Stories like yours remind us that there is good in the world, and even if it isn’t everywhere, it is still worth cultivating.
I’m a software engineer née scientist, but my spouse is a therapist who specializes in addiction. They (and I!) cherish stories like yours because we had seen up-close the struggle that so many people face.
Thank you!!
I do think AI will eliminate software as a life path for folks like this.
wtf xd
Please don't get a motorcycle:
A good felon buddy of mine has been out now for 4 years. He slowly built a car repair business, with steady clientele, and got his life back on track – including reasonable sobriety and a steady relationship. He and his girl would cruise around often, enjoying their newfound happiness.
Last week he totaled his Harley and his body (destroyed bike, multiple broken bones). Total reset. He now gets PTSD whenever a Harley revvs by passing... physically cannot work.
Please don't get a motorcycle.
I’m sorry if i’m missing something… what does this have to do with his story other than addiction and felony?
(fwiw i agree regardless, don’t get a motorcycle, lost too many friends to accidents or the following addiction)
The wrecklessness which brings some people into prison, is what brings them & others lusting towards motorcycle culture, often shortly upon release. Something something something anti-social something.
I'm just offering real-world advice after witnessing all the broken bones and jerked roadrash upon this tattoo'd convict's broken body. Shouldn't be alive.
Billions of people have a motorcycle globally... Some anecdote from a chronically motorcycle adverse culture (US) doesn't mean a whole mean of transport is invalid...
Most people riding motorcycles globally are not doing so on busy freeways at 60mph+ multiple times per day, surrounded by 2.5 ton vehicles with poor visibility traveling 60mph+
Putzing around an urban center on a cafe bike is not what it means to "ride a motorcycle" in the US.
I'd much rather be on a freeway at 60+ MPH surrounded by 2.5 ton vehicles with poor visibility than riding an urban street. New riders are rightly intimidated by the freeways (they're fast, they're big), but they're far, far safer than the street with all of the starting, stopping, hard corners, folks turning onto the street, and, of course, the king of bike slayers, the "I didn't see them" left turn.
Not to mention all the junk on the streets: the oil, anti-freeze, gravel, wet painted turn arrows.
When freeways become unsafe is when the loose nut behind the handlebars decides to wick it up and just "go around all of these big slow things". But that's not the freeways fault.
First year/10,000 miles is the hardest. But the foundational rules apply: Wear the gear, slow down, don't ride impaired (drunk, high, tired...).
Lightning strikes, it sucks. But, anecdotally, my worst motor vehicle injury was while a passenger in a modern car when my friend drove into a left turning vehicle. "Fender bender", "no biggie". Chronic, notable, back pain ever since. Worst than anything I've ever suffered on a motorcycle.
You're describing American cities, while GP (to whom I was responding) was clearly describing the huge number of foreign cities (e.g. SE Asia) where motorcycles are the dominant form of urban transit.
The relevant factor is that a street where motorcycles, cycles, pedestrians, and small/slow cars are dominant – all of which move at generally slow speeds – is of far, far, far less danger than a street (freeway or not) where the primary form factor is large automobiles traveling quickly.
You're describing American cities, while GP (to whom I was responding) was clearly describing the huge number of foreign cities (e.g. SE Asia) where motorcycles are the dominant form of urban transit.
The relevant factor is that a street where motorcycles, cycles, pedestrians, and small/slow cars are dominant – all of which move at generally slow speeds – is of far, far, far less danger than a street (freeway or not) where the primary form factor is large automobiles traveling quickly.
> First year/10,000 miles is the hardest
This is typical Intermediate Syndrome. The median rider involved in a motorcycle accident has nearly 3 years of experience.
No, road defects, obstacles, and weather are almost never the cause of motorcycle accidents.
I lived in Bangkok and saw 4 motorcycle accidents or their immediate aftermath. Even in perpetually jammed third world megacity traffic, the motorcyclist always loses to the other vehicle, in several of those cases almost certainly fatally.
First 10k are the hardest but the tail effect of an experienced rider is what gets you. I had crashes in my first 10k but my worst were after riding for decades when I would just randomly hit a tiny oil slick going 70+mph while using zero brakes, zero turning, and zero extra acceleration. Just get thrown low-side due to randomness of having to watch traffic while not noticing a tiny oil slick with enough random variations in the road that it immediately throws the bike when traction regains.
> chronically adverse culture
That's the thing. On a bike you can do everything right and still lose.
California is one of the safer places to ride given how many bikes are here and I've still had too many near misses as a trained, experienced, and conservative rider.
Most people put 1-2k miles a year on their bikes, when I was riding often I put on 2-3k/ month.
>That's the thing. On a bike you can do everything right and still lose.
Same with anything in life.
Same with a car, just less so. Of course you could also stay at home, wearing protective bumper suit 24/7 (and can still die from any number of things anyway).
At some point there's a tradeoff people make. Some people make it where the tradeoff slider says "motorcycle", rather than stop at "car". And I'm not talking a tiny niche, but about 1-1.2 billion people globally.
The risk is much much much higher with a motorcycle - especially in the US where most car drivers have next to zero experience sharing the road with motorcycles let alone driving a motorcycle. Saying it's the same thing is absurd here.
- Licensed motorcycle driver
Vs what though? We're talking about a felon and addict channeling their risk-taking energy. I rode motorcycles exclusively as my transport in my 20s and it was one of the main things that checked use of intoxicants. You need your balance for a motorcycle and it uses the same risk-taking energy that many people would otherwise channel into drugs and destruction.
That is to say, those comparing car v motorcycle are doing the wrong comparison here. You'd be evaluating (car + substitute activity of drugs/crime/etc) vs. motorcycle -- rather than merely car v motorcycles.
> Same with a car, just less so.
So not the same?
> Of course you could also stay at home, wearing protective bumper suit 24/7
Quite an extreme and useless comparison. There's a large spectrum of transportation and entertainment options between motorcycle riding and home bound bumper suit at all times.
Yeah exactly, same with BASE jumping or wingsuiting.
It's the same risk dynamic as driving a car to work, just more so. Of course you could also stay at home, wearing protective bumper suit 24/7 (and can still die from any number of things anyway).
> That's the thing. On a bike you can do everything right and still lose.
Same with a car, or anything really.
The point of parent stands, globally there are billions of people going through their lives with motorcycles as their main vehicles, yet aren't involved in any life-changing accidents.
Some places are more dangerous than others, probably places that doesn't have this already motorcycle-heavy culture, like other countries in the world, has a higher incident rate and more severe accidents, as drivers aren't aware of how motorcycles usually operate.
Please don't say accident when you really mean crash.
Promote language of responsibility and accountability.
Most crashes, but not all, are accidents. I think I'm talking about accidents, not crashes.
Someone is always at fault.
Look into auto lobby and this "accident" term history.
Use the language of accountability.
I live in Indonesia. We have the highest per-capita rate of bike ownership in the world.
I have seen what happens to motorcycle riders when there are accidents and I have seen what happens to car drivers when there are accidents. I won't get into the gory details but I avoid using bikes as much as possible.
And I've seen what happens when pedestrians get hit by a car going way too fast, it sucks, and is horrible, but also besides the point. Not to say one has worse/better accidents, motorcycles accidents obviously has a much higher fatality and serious injuries risk, hard to deny.
>but also besides the point.
Hard disagree.
Both pedestrians and motorcyclists are raw to the elements, entirely. At least when on roadways an automobile provides a chassis/rollcage.
When vulnerable road users are killed in other countries there is strict liability. That is, the driver is assumed at fault unless proven otherwise.
In America it's the perfect crime.
"I'm so sorry officer I never saw them."
Case closed Lou.
You disagree with me agreeing with what you just wrote about it being more dangerous to go with motorcycles?
The "besides the point" is that the point I was raising was how common motorcycles are, globally. Is that what you're disagreeing with?
Crashes. Not accidents.
Accidents. Not everything is under the driver's control, nor does it happen due to their intention (or even necessarily due to their lack of attention or whatever).
There's a reason the term accident is used (I know at least 10 countries where the meaning is the same).
Get a dirt bike. 10X more fun than street riding and much safer.
The issue is the bodily risk of injury or death compared to nearly any other routine transportation or sporting activity: https://injuryfacts.nsc.org/motor-vehicle/road-users/motorcy...
A fairly large % of those people--I would wager most, personally--would probably rather have cars, but can't afford to.
Probably depends on the locale. In Europe, riding a moped in a big city is a way to drastically cut your commute compared to driving a car. It's not exactly dangerous when all the other road users are moving at 5m/min, and being able to just skip all the traffic jams is a godsend. By car, my trip to the office was about 45min - it was 15min on a moped, a stop at a shop for some snacks included. And that's with riding speed never exceeding 50km/h.
I had two accidents during my 5 years of commuting, and both times I only got minor scratches and had to replace my shoes. Both happened at speeds a determined bicycle rider could achieve, but I suspect I wouldn't be as well protected on a bicycle (both the machine itself and the protective gear tend to be much lighter there than on a moped). If I needed to do that again, I'd buy a model with two wheels at the front, which would have prevented both accidents - though I'm not sure if added stability wouldn't encourage me to ride faster.
So it's pretty specific, but if you're somewhere where driving culture is not too cutthroat, the roads can support single-track vehicles, and the traffic rather than actual distance is the limiting factor - owning a bike can be an objectively better option.
oh interesting, I should have realized it was fairly common in Europe
I'm a motorcyclists. We usually refer to the smaller bikes as "motorbikes". Two wheels in the west is usually a hobby. In other parts of the world it might be a necessity, they don't do it for the pleasure. A lot of people forget this.
And thank God for it.
If every scooter rider in Taipei had a car, the city traffic would move a meter a day.
It's also about convenience, btw, not just cost. It's basically impossible to park a car here. Scooters are also difficult but at least possible.
A huge chunk of people here just take public transit now, as it should be.
yeah I think you have PTSD from your friends accident.
Not all bike owners and riders have a shady history or risk taking behavior (aside from riding a motrobike).
He's just pointing out that after putting so much work into getting their life turned around it can easy be ruined by indulging in high risk behavior.
It's not bad advice, just unlikely to land. Thrill seekers seek thrills.
Have you ever been on a motorcycle?
Closest feeling you can get to flying and a helluva lot cheaper.
Bike costs are line noise, (cheap!) planes I fly are better part of $200 an hour.
I get what you're saying though. Barely been on bike since latest baby and wondering if I should just sell them for now.
As much as I miss riding and wife misses riding with me, if the worst were to happen, yikes.
> Closest feeling you can get to flying
I’d say this is a strong case against getting one for anyone who has struggled with addiction. In my experience a part of the constant battle is a difficult relationship with sources of stimulation.
I’ll second this. Back in the 90s when my addict brain was in full flight, I had a street bike for a year. There was not a single ride when I didn’t massively exceed the speed limit and ride recklessly. I loved it! Lucky to be alive. Lucky I had a partner who convinced me to sell it after our first child was born.
Having said all that and despite being in recovery for many years... I still lust after the feeling of completely unfettered freedom being on a bike on an open road. Before I bought my bike a friend had warned me that once you ride, you’ll never not want to ride. He was right.
Same. I got spooked after a car pulled out on the country highway I was doing 160 on. Then ran out of money and sold it. I just rode my Dads Harley, first ride in 20 years. Was nice but I’m good. I have a longboard and a little hill once in a while gives me the occasional adrenaline rush I crave.
With a child it's easy to always justify spending the money on something else. I also miss the machine's simplicity and ease to work on.
While it probably sounds crazy, owning a tractor is almost as good. There are even more mechanical widgets to play with and it is dead simple and easy to work on like a motorcycle. I still miss the motorcycle but now I can actually do useful work while somewhat scratching the itch.
>Have you ever been on a motorcycle?
Absolutely. Broken bones, and all.
----
>wondering if I should just sell them for now
>if the worst were to happen, yikes
Listen to yourself, Papa.
----
It's a young (dumb) man's game.
Motorcycles are ridiculously fun but yeah, if you have anything in your life worth preserving or sticking around for, it's statistically a pretty awful decision.
>Motorcycles are ... statistically a pretty awful decision.
This has been my favorite sentence (so far) in this discussion – whatever one's opinion is on motorcycling. Capital 't' Truth.
----
Thirty years ago, my mother gave me some small amount of money to NOT ride a motorcycle on roadways until after she died. Being young and broke, I took the money. stopped riding.
After she died, I had aged just enough to realize that I didn't actually want to ride motorcycles on-road, anymore. Even after decades of wanting to...
Somehow mama-up-there knew I'd eventually grow up, and it only cost her a few hundred dollars [to not have to witness my motorcycle accident (while alive, nor ever from-above)].
Thanks for sharing!
What are your thoughts on Roller Coasters? Hit a good theme park, ride maybe 6 with your eyes closed within a couple of hours.
I can't help but feel riding one (Roller Coaster) is much more optimal than $200/hr flying a plane, and much safer than a motorcycle, even if you rented vs purchase one.
> ride maybe 6 with your eyes closed
That’s like telling a skydiver to go ride the Drop Tower (or whatever the ride is that drops you straight down).
Not only is the experience different, but you aren’t in control. You aren’t controlling what’s happening.
For me a big part of the enjoyment comes from being in control of the bike.
Personally I would get zero enjoyment riding as a passenger on a bike. The thrill comes from riding and maneuvering the bike, not just going fast.
> For me a big part of the enjoyment comes from being in control of the bike.
Yes. Chasing perfection every time.
How smoothly can you roll out of this corner. How perfect a line can you take. How smoothly can you shift up or rev match and shift down.
I don't think I've ever been a passenger. My young wife enjoyed riding with me before our youngest came.
So an important invention that would save lives is a combined bumper cars + rollercoaster. Like the Witching Waves but faster.
Great America gold pass holder for many years.
It's a thrill for sure. Mostly on the smaller coasters thee days because of the kids.
> Closest feeling you can get to flying and a helluva lot cheaper.
Hah, that's funny for someone who got into FPV quadcopters recently and just passed his motorcycle license. I might have a problem.
I fly RC planes. I've done a bit of RC FPV with monitors never tried goggles or quads though.
I've ridden a bike and I've also jumped out of an airplane. One of these is a lot closer to flying than the other, and it's not the one you suggested.
EUC or FPV are closer, FPV is also safer..
if you do, I’d recommend taking motorcycle safety courses on a regular cadence in order to practice your skills. even if you’re a regular rider it’s great to learn the limits of your bike and do emergency maneuvers in a controlled environment
there’s lots offered near the bay area (where I’m from) and they don’t cost that much for what you’re getting in return
I ride. No way in hell I'd ride in the US.
That's horrible but also a stark reminder for how quickly life can change for any one of us...
Neither of us have health insurance (forty-something Americans -- USA! USA! USA!). My helpfulness towards him mostly knowing he has nobody else to help him (ER already stabilized him post-accident, plus another trip for sepsis). Also, I love dogs.
This has been a very terrible and very real lesson in mortality. Wish we had some basic social safety nets for middle-aged unemployables (e.g. single-payer healthcare).
True but a motorcycle is basically 100% given that you will crash and have bad injuries.
There are old riders and there are bold riders...
But somehow no old bold riders.
It's hardly any given. You can just ride properly.
In other countries they are a huge means of transport.
True. If you ride properly, then everyone else on the road is not allowed to hit you by the laws of physics.
You can drive like a saint, you will still get plowed by someone who is dumb, or just on their phone. It's over!
It's a risky activity, yes, but lets not forget metropolitan areas in other countries are shock filled with motorcycles and most people live their entire life without being involved in any majorly serious accidents.
You mean scooters traveling <35mph surrounded by other scooters traveling <35mph
E.g. the most common motorcycle in Vietnam is the 110cc Honda Wave with a top speed under ideal conditions of ~60mph. It literally would not be called a motorcycle in the US.
No, I'm talking about motorcycles traveling ~50mph surrounded by other motorcycles, cars, trucks and whatever else goes on around and in metropolitan areas, even in countries in Europe.
The cities that Americans travel to in order to experience quaint and whimsical urban environments?
I don't think any city in Europe is as anti-human as your standard American metro, suburb, or small town.
Also: European metro areas are full of two-wheeled not-motorcycles, like the Honda above.
From time spent living in the Philippines I have no idea what they're even on about. Sometimes I watched the local news and it was absolutely plastered with endless mass death of motorcyclists. Life is just cheap in south east asia so when a gazillion people get splattered on their bike no one thinks too much about it, it's just the risk of doing the business.
100% given? Lol
You could make a similar argument for bicycles.
Apparently the numbers for bicycles are a bit better, even in adjusted terms, but still. They're very unsafe in general.
There’s a study demonstrating life expectancy of 3+ years for bicycle Paris commuters (2+ for public transport) compared to cars. They didn’t evaluate motorbike.
The effect on physical and psychic health largely outweighs (sometimes to x30) the risk of accidents and pollution disease.
(2012, french) https://www.ors-idf.org/nos-travaux/publications/les-benefic...
I lost a good friend, a cycling partner, when she was hit by a car. I think she was a Cat 3 or 4 racer. Talented rider.
I haven’t ridden on the road since. Just no joy in riding anymore if it just takes one careless individual on a cell phone…
Every so often I think about linking up with a group ride again or even going to a spin class, but I just don’t see the fun in it anymore.
>I haven’t ridden on the road since.
It's laughable how proud some cyclists become when they think a painted stripe will somehow protect them from cellphoned sharks.
Obviously US bicycling infrastructure is laughably dangerous, and nobody deserves full-blame for exercising their legal rights upon roadways -- but e.g: biking up Lookout Mountain's shoulderless 2-lane highway is. stupid.ly common. These are tourist roadways winding through a mountainrange – are you cyclist's suicidal, or just hubric? Nobody knows where they are, and your dumb_ass is in the blindcurve going 2mph.
Your legal right #RIP
Indeed.
Even as a pedestrian, I hate crossing a small road using crosswalks at a 4 way stop.
More than once, I’ve been nearly run over — even by vehicles that came to a complete stop.
Others were too distracted and plowed nonstop going 40+mph through the 4way stop.
I actually prefer to cross in the middle of the road on my own terms.
Indeed.
I sometimes lament that I wish I could ride in a group again, but it’s such a hurdle to get over mentally for me.
It is a lot of fun having camaraderie with similarly skilled riders hammering it out in the big ring for two hours, but just never have been able to get back to that place where I’m comfortable enough to do it.
Edit: oh, rereading your comment… my friend was not at fault in her crash. She was a careful rider just out for a spin and happened to cross paths with the wrong idiot who was distracted and veered onto the shoulder. I was expressing sadness that that is all it took to end her life.
People do advocate for separated bike paths and concrete barriers between bike lanes and car lanes.
Perhaps we could move away from victim blaming, the same way we've moved away from blaming assaulted women for dressing a certain way.
It's a lot easier to ride recklessly on a motorcycle than an ordinary bike. I suppose mopeds/motor scooters (especially electric ones) are the sensible middle-of-the-road option.
I do wonder how much to trust averages on these statistics. I observe that I am much more risk averse than the average cyclist in my city. Perhaps my risk is really much lower, conditional on that knowledge?
I am very risk averse person and I won't ride a bike in LA. In a city with proper infrastructure I would love to.
In both cases the reasons often come back to the average motorcyclist and bicycle rider abjectly REFUSING to learn or respect road laws.
I live in a non-California state and I'm shocked whenever I see a motorcyclist who doesn't illegally lane split, who maintains a standard following distance (ideally 3 car lengths on an interstate), etc. Plus, most of them aren't even good at choosing leather jackets (not enough schotts or even made in Japan actual horsehide, lots of slop non-protective because most of these people are poor from the Harley purchase) and they don't wear proper protective heavy bottoms (i.e. leather/kevlar pants or HEAVY selvedge denim like 25 oz+). Many don't wear helmets because doing so might make them look like "fairies" to their friends in the outlaw biker gang.
Similarly, half or more of the cyclists in your average complete streets/walkable cities liberal area either 1. actually don't have a drivers license and are thus oblivious to road laws when they routinely get on the road, 2. refuse to use a helmet/put lights on at night/hand signal when turning, and 3. refuse to use perfectly good empty sidewalks (yes its legal here to bike on the sidewalk) to cycle on when possible.
I see this shit all the time, and I understand why they end up as roadkill time-and-time again. Keep winning Darwin awards. My heart goes out to those who legitimately did everything right and ends up squashed anyway, but the myriad number of idiots ruins it for the victims.
I actually don't know which makes me more scared to see on the road, a clapped out Nissan/dodge, a Harley rider, or a cyclist. At least the cyclists and nissan drivers are probably young and thus far more alert than the average geriatric who thinks they're so cool for owning the worlds most gaudy motorcycle.
Yeah man, it's the cyclists who are the problem, right? https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/39986875/
> maintains a standard following distance (ideally 3 car lengths on an interstate)
3 car lengths is a ridiculously too close following distance at freeway speeds.
I grew up riding dirtbikes in a non-helmet-required US state.
>Many don't wear helmets because doing so might make them look like "fairies" to their friends in the outlaw biker gang.
I now live in a state which requires helmets for all riders.
This is a good idea – for exactly the reason you stated.
HD riders are known for not using decent safety equipment and that bullshit open helmet or none.
A freaking motorcycle with 300+ kilos moving ate highway speeds or more.
He had a fully-enclosed helmet, was wearing leathers and boots, and has years of experience. Was legitimately sober (I talked with him right before he left). One hand now looks like a grimreaper's bones, sticking out from blood-caked jerkybits.
----
Certainly speed was a factor but isn't that why ya'll ride?
Well, I don’t speed. Had a accident once that made me learn the lesson.
It's only been a week; right?
Right; he is fucked up. Girl is now gone, having caught charges herself (stabbed him because he refuses most pain killers and is in a lot of pain right now//ashole).
So sad to see; I am walking his dogs; last time I saw him I said "I am just worried that this will make you spin out, again."
Definitely helped me continue deciding not to get a motorcycle, myself.
as someone who just got back from a nice motorcycle group ride: lol
I don't see the appeal of group rides myself. Always seems to be some stupid shit happening.
Half of the group rides I see are to "honor" or "remember " a rider who died doing something stupid as well.
Stay safe, young grasshopper.
You can be the best rider in the world and still have a bad day/week/month/year/life.
Can never predict your future. Enjoy what you will, when you can. I was in a motorcycle accident in 2021, TBI, hospitalized for 3mo, induced coma, and rehab for 9 months after.
I am back on the horse. It is just a zen and still relaxing time, albeit more anxiety while riding, than before. Thankful I can still ride, and I do.
You were in a crash sir.
I'm glad you're better. Tenacity.
Safest travels. Glad to hear you humped back on 'er.
And you can be the best car driver and still sway off or have some idiot crash into you head-on or miss a red light...
At a minimum you're belted in surrounded by a cage.
More likely you're belted in your cage and surrounded by airbags.
Apples to orangutans.
>surrounded by a cage
THIS is the major difference, protecting even the best motorcyclist's abilities.
Some US highways are posted at 85mph [137km/h] – unprotected flesh doesn't stand a chance!
> Some US highways
I'm sorry, but from a European perspective, this is the problem, not bikes. If your roads and driving culture encourage driving a tank for safety, that's a bit less than ideal.
I commuted to work for 5 years on a moped. I never used a highway, almost never exceeded 50km/h, and had 2 accidents during that time; both resulted in just a few scratches and bruises.
In another post, you said: "maybe speed was a factor" - actually, it's the only factor. If you never go too fast and never use roads where others may go too fast, you're safe - at least from life-altering tragedies.
If, on the other hand, it's generally impossible to get where you want to without using highways, or the sheer distance forces you to step on it - then yeah, don't buy a motorbike. Just note that it's not the bike's fault!
I lack the commenting impulse control to say this in a politically correct way so my apologies for the outrage that will follow, but to put it crudely there is someone in my extended family who became a retard after falling off their bicycle at roughly walking speed and with a helmet on. It's rare but you can easily die just from walking and slipping on a banana peel.
While you're right about slower generally being safer, you should still treat it like a life-altering tragedy could happen at any time and like you're going 200 kph.
That's a bit like saying "I don't wear a seatbelt when driving a car, but I've never had a problem."
The previous is a bit like saying "My pal got hurt in a car crash, never get a car".
And then when almost every person says that, it turns out to be good advice. But we have statistics on this!
Motorcycles aren't invulnerable 3 ton steel tanks but the stats and anecdotes are deceptive. They're really not that bad if you're not a moron, even if you're mostly worried about other road users. The stat are wildly bimodal.
~30% of deaths involve drunk riding
~30% of deaths involve not wearing any helmet (let alone full face ECE 22.06 rated ones or any other gear at all)
~30% of deaths involve someone with no motorcycle licence.
These aren't all mutually exclusive obviously, rather the Venn diagram probably looks rather...circular.
The issue isn't so much everyone trying to kill you, you can fix a lot of the visibility issues and you have some additional options if someone is about to hit you. The problem is that two wheels make for a VERY dynamic system and you're managing two different brakes with weight shifting between two wheels based on your inputs. To that end ABS and TCS are absolutely huge, IIRC something like >60% safety improvement.
Tldr don't buy an old retro bike with no safety systems and ride it drunk without a license or gear, you'll continue to pad the numbers.
Isn’t this suggesting that the majority of motorbike deaths are licensed, sober, safety-geared riders?
I absolutely love statistics – be careful with inferrences, though.
This rider (I described above) was
~sober
~helmetted (fully faced)
~licensed
Well since we're doing anecdotes, I'm a sober, fully helmeted, geared rider with 8 years and tens of thousands of miles under my tires. I've had two incidents:
1. I fell over at a stop sign on a canted hill while stopped because the rented Harley was so fucking big. I immediately returned it and will never ride a Harley again, those things suck.
2. I stupidly stopped just before the crest of a gravel road because I couldn't determine the best path (should have just trusted my tires and picked one), started sliding backwards. Rather than spin my tires and risk shooting off, or slide backwards into the unknown, I just tipped over and rolled off the bike.
No injuries either times. No at speed near misses. I have a simple rule: if I'm not 100% sure, I don't do it. A pass, a light, an intersection, when in doubt, I slow down, or stop, or hang out where I am in a lane.
Maybe one day I'll get taken out at a stop light or something random like that but the joy that riding has brought me I just can't give up. Exploring the world on a motorcycle is just amazing.
All activities come with risks. Motorcycling is up there but so is rock climbing, kayaking, rafting, hiking, bicycling, swimming - all activities I personally know someone who has been severely injured doing. You take precautions but you gotta live.
Get a motorcycle. Definitely don't get a HD though.
Powerful. Thank you for sharing.
Had to look away to stop from tearing up in Panera a few times at the end.
Sending this to my sister who has had struggles like this. She recently finished her BS and hopes to be an counselor or therapist after finishing her masters.
Your compassionate and honest story will, I hope, bear much fruit. You write well..very readable and engaging.
Is programming underrated art form when it comes to helping people come out of such situations? Addiction or depression.
It easier to get paid, you can be in a flow state for hours. Enough to forget about other addictions. and less likely to be high always while programming
Thanks for sharing, Gavin.
Can relate. Been 45 years, for me. Got my act together at 18, but before that...
I’m curious (as a recovered alcoholic myself) how you got sober.
I'll be honest, a lot of it was my wife. And also hitting my lowest bottom after becoming homeless and penniless.
So a combination of looking at what I had done to myself + everyone around me and going "what the fuck." and my ever-vigilant wife who knew I had the capacity and desire to get better.
For me it really took literally losing everything.
the secret is to hate drinking and never drink
That would make sense, wouldn't it?
"Just say no"?
Sadly, it doesn't work. If you're an addict, you'll end up manifesting in one way, or many ways. Drugs aren't the only way that it expresses itself.
I hate alcohol. I always have. The taste makes me sick. The best way to ruin a dessert, is to pour expensive booze on it.
That didn't stop me from becoming a prize-winning lush, though.
The thing about addiction, is that it just doesn't make sense. It can't be understood, when looked at, through a rational lens.
That's a big reason that Recovery is difficult. It's also often badly supported by family members, who don't understand the mechanisms.
But that's a long story, for other venues. I am happy to read his story, and sincerely wish him luck.
I apologize in advance for rambling. I never comment or post anywhere, but your post motivated me to share part of my story. I very much relate to the feeling that sharing can be too personal and too easy to misread.
Thank you for sharing. It’s refreshing to see that there are people who will take a chance on you. Your story helps with the burnout of pushing through with little to no results and exponentially diminishing resources.
I haven’t been so lucky, I joined a tiny startup in 2018 that shut down a year later, landed contract work in 2019 that was meant to convert into full-time, but was let go due to the pandemic right before converting. My most recent employer fired me on christmas of 2022.
I had a falling out with friends because they wouldn’t refer me for any role including tech sales. My uni wouldn't consider me for a master's degree because my microprocessor architecture professor wasn't "comfortable" writing a rec letter despite me sitting front of class and getting an A, all while practically begging students to apply (all 2/2 people that applied got into the program). Even in grade school my 2nd grade teacher was fired for lying to my parents that I was underperforming in school and that I needed to get kicked out of the talented and gifted program and repeat the grade. I still don't know what to make of all of this.
I haven’t been able to land phone screenings, let alone a first round interview anywhere. I am having a hard time getting minimum wage work due to being "over-qualified". I've been priced out of my hometown. I’ve completed web development, data science, and cloud infra bootcamps as a way to up-skill while also having a degree in electrical engineering. I would consider myself adaptable: I've worked in designing/improving electrical hardware, reverse engineering, web, mobile.
I am first-gen American, grew up homeless, but received a world-class education. Sometimes I wonder if I’m on a blacklist somewhere, or if I need to fall further for something to finally click. I guess I’m just having a really long bad luck streak, so here’s to hoping something better is around the corner!
Is a success story line this still possible with coding assistants, or do they basically pull up the ladder that this guy climbed? I don't have enough insight into the job market right now to know.
You are very brave in sharing all of this and you, as anybody else in your position, absolutely deserve a promising second chance. Keep rocking!
Open source has changed the life of so many, from so many situations. We should be proud of our industry. Together we built something beautiful
> The beginning of the end: The day I bought an Adderall from a classmate. When that amphetamine feeling kicked-in, it was as if life was perfect for the first time. I was happy, confident, felt I could do anything.
You know, I had a similar experience, but in my case I got an appointment with a psychiatrist afterwards, described the experience in detail, was given a computer test, diagnosed with ADHD, and then given a prescription. (Also in my case, I learned Adderall doesn’t actually feel great or help you if you take too much).
Take care of your kids. The war on drugs is stupid. Etc.
Poor kid just had ADHD and his whole life got ruined tha is to backwards prohibition
>>> I cut the article out and put it in a documents folder.
Had to read this a couple of times, to let it sink in that he is cutting with scissors and placing this paper document in a manilla folder.
Shoutout to the author. I don't think I've met you, but I'm proud of you. What you've done is not easy. Neither is talking about it.
I've not had nearly the adversity of the author, but I do know a little bit about what it's like to have an alternative background that makes companies not want to take a chance on you. It motivates you to take advantage of the chances you're given. The first time someone gave me a job, I felt so utterly grateful that I worked twice as hard as most and complained half as much. You could cynically call that exploitation, but I didn't see it that way.
When I came into a position to make my own hiring calls, I tried paying that forward, and I got some great employees from it. Arguably a couple duds as well, but I never regretted giving the chance.
Shout out to Hasura as well, btw. I've encountered their leadership team a couple times and everything about them has screamed integrity. It did not surprise me to hear that they are part of this story.
Thanks. At this point, I believe it's what I will look back on as my legacy. Software is ephemeral, but the people you build it with are what shape how you reflect on it.
have you been able to reconcile with your parents? thank you for sharing
Thank you for sharing your story! I wish you continued success. Hope you keep building and keep inspiring
these are my favorite stories from HN.
similarly, i loved the story of the guy who got busted for running an illegal sports streaming site and was able to build himself back up.
hats off to you for your sobriety
I created this account to convey my sincere gratitude. I needed to see this today and you've given me inspiration.
I feel like US is ridiculously hard on even low grade drugs. Half of my high school would have gone to prison in the US.
Sending a 14 year old convicted of drug crimes anywhere but a location that will help them is bizarre. Sending them to a max security anything leaves me speechless.
Yeah I feel like there's less discussion than I expected of how many different things had to be done utterly ass backwards wrong by society for this guy to have his downward spiral in the first place.
As others have said, thank you for sharing.
Every time I read stories like this my heart hurts. And I feel like I've been punched in the gut.
Every single time I read stories like this all my shit comes to the surface. Thank goodness for mental health professionals and prescription drugs.
No matter how I feel about your experiences, I want to know more. I want others to feel like they can share with people who are ready to listen and be supportive however we can.
"AI Use Disclaimer: claude code was used to generate the OpenGraph SVG image.
No part of the prose was machine-generated. You will not find machine-written prose on this blog. I consider it deeply disrespectful."
I really like this disclaimer, by disclaiming that a single small thing was done with AI, you make very credible and notable that you did not use LLMs for the important parts.
That’s cool. Unfortunately, today, sobriety doesn’t guarantee that AI companies won’t kill off what’s left of your career (which somewhat weakens the incentives to do so). But congrats!
Have an upvote. Sobriety is an expectation. I will say though that people I’ve known who went through the journey are some of the smarter people I’ve met. Not all of them, but the whole numbing yourself because your brain can’t quite understand all the thoughts it has, that’s a real thing. Probably sounds insane, but it’s real.
The ironic thing is, I work for one of those "AI Companies" ;^)
Claude Code and Codex have done most of my work for the last year, and with the pace of AI improvement, I'm not sure that you'd need (or even want) me in the mix.
From a business perspective, it makes a lot of financial sense, too.
I'm sure it's a limited amount of time before I'm dead weight, but I'll cross that bridge when I get to it, and I'll figure something out if/when it happens =)
My lived experience doesn’t care what the downvotes say (many here are privileged, after all), and it is only a matter of time imo unless something is done about the industry to change course.
> unless something is done about the industry to change course
There will be no change of course, sadly.
I see karma as form of a currency to afford getting downvoted. I actually don't mind the downvotes especially when it's followed by a comment on why. Helps me see parts I've missed.
I wouldn't internalize that idea too much. In a lot of countries traffic fines are a fixed amount, so some people feel like they don't have to respect traffic rules since they can afford to just pay the fine.
It's one way to process the negative feeling of being fined. But it doesn't really make the roads safer.
Goes both ways, if you're afraid of getting downvoted you might never find out that people actually agree with you, same goes with traffic tickets sometimes they don't make sense especially related to parking in crowded cities and ebikes, as long as you're not an asshole about it it's fine.
I find the downvotes excessive for this kind of thing. They are basically a censorship mechanism, enough downvotes and a comment will basically disappear. I've used it about twice since I got the ability several years ago, and both times it was somebody promoting a Trump-related conspiracy theory.
This was really encouraging to read. Appreciate the honesty and vulnerability. Keeo going, keep sober, and I hope your future stays bright.
I feel happiness reading stories like this. You proved to the world that you can become something great even when all the cards are stacked against you. I often feel despair when I think about where our society is heading, but there will always be people like you who are there to push back against all the wrongs in the world and make the best out of it.
I'm glad! It sounds really corny, but someone once told me "The only thing you can choose in life is your attitude."
Sometimes it felt like I'd never get a break, things wouldn't get better. But I tried to tell myself "Every occurrence in life is a numbers game. Against tiny odds, eventually enough attempts statistically OUGHT to pay off."
And the alternative is bleak, sort of sulking in this pit of despair without hope for tomorrow.
See how easy it was to "pull yourself up by your bootstraps"
(reviving an account this once to just say...) I've been lucky to work closely with Gavin at Hasura for years, and he is really a brilliant and versatile engineer, and is just a pleasure to work with. Great energy, down-to-earth, hilarious. If I had to assemble a "dream team" he would be on it for sure.
Thanks for sharing this part of your story dude!
Good on him and shout out for Hasura as well, probably the most pleasant dev experience I had in past 10 years. It was so good, the startup I was at dropped it because CTO got scared that there was no work for the backend devs, ha.
Congratulations on your sobriety!!
As a libertarian right leaning guy I opened your story with pessimism but I really enjoyed it and greatly appreciated the personal responsibility you took in your situation. People should be inspired by this - it’s precisely because of personal responsibility that you are so successful.
Well done, mate.
Just the kind of victim the system loves.
I had less and less sympathy for the author the more I read.
Your life was easy. A constant stream of people willing to offer you places to stay, and you had zero trouble finding work. That was not my experience being poor - I remember a constant stream of rejections from supermarkets and hardware stores. And I was sober to boot.
Having no vehicle, she had to borrow the friend's bicycle and ride 30 minutes in the dark before work, and 30 minutes in the sweltering heat after work home
Couldn't read any more after this. 11 year old children literally do this to get to school, laughing and chatting.
Your life was incredibly easy and you still fucked it up.
Then go write a blog asshole
I know a guy who bankrupted multiple businesses and is 34 time convicted felon and adjudicated rapist and he’s gone on to become president … don’t let your past control your future! /s
Sure, if you are in the same situation with access to loads of money and good connections, the sky's the limit.
So this guy was buying fake MDMA and reselling it as actual MDMA? What a scum bag