I've been told that American's have a very low rate of passport issuance. I don't know if that's true, but the figure quoted was only 10% of adults hold passports. Is this a really effective way to get people to pay for their kids, or just the appearance of doing something to quiet the voters?
It's possible this might have a significant (not small, not necessarily large) impact on the smaller subset of delinquent parents that might currently have a larger double digit percentage (30% say) skipping to Canada, Mexico, or elsewhere to avoid being chased down.
Or not.
The main point here is that it's not the entire population of regular US citizens that should be looked at here, more the specific behaviour of the subset in question.
Presumably it would be very effective for some demographics and not so effective for others. 10% is still a very large group of people. People who would be affected are also probably people who can afford international travel, so the affected are probably disporportionally the group who are failing to pay despite having a bunch of spare income.
As an american it is true that most people don’t have passports - the act of flying internationally is either out of reach economically or culturally. This does give mostly out of touch opression where the margins are the targets and the white dudes will likely get a pass, so the latter.
Not commenting one way or the other, but here is what authorizes this:
The Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Reconciliation Act of 1996 (PRWORA)[0]
SEC. 370. DENIAL OF PASSPORTS FOR NONPAYMENT OF CHILD
SUPPORT.
(a) HHS Certification Procedure.—
(1) Secretarial responsibility.—Section 452 (42 U.S.C. 652), as amended by section 345 of this Act, is amended by adding at the end the following new subsection:
“(k)(1) If the Secretary receives a certification by a State agency in accordance with the requirements of section 454(31) that an individual owes arrearages of child support in an amount exceeding $5,000, the Secretary shall transmit such certification to the Secretary of State for action (with respect to denial, revocation, or limitation of passports) pursuant to paragraph (2).
“(2) The Secretary of State shall, upon certification by the Secretary transmitted under paragraph (1), refuse to issue a passport to such individual, and may revoke, restrict, or limit a passport issued previously to such individual.[1]
The above may have predated the amended copy, as a threshold of $2,500 seemed to be the case at least 3 years ago, for whatever that is worth.
I don't have much of a problem with the $100K penalties.
I have a lot more issue with a $2.5K limit--that could be just one or two (intentionally or unintentionally) misreported payments. Or a paycheck hiccup. Or a layoff. Or a government error (because we all know how infallible DOGE was). Or a government shutdown. Or ...
We specifically decry the concepts of debtor's prisons and social credit in the US. For good reasons.
This is leaving aside the whole discussion about your passport being an identity document that isn't subject to control of a single US state government like your driver's license.
> I have a lot more issue with a $2.5K limit--that could be just one or two (intentionally or unintentionally) misreported payments. Or a paycheck hiccup. Or a layoff. Or a government error (because we all know how infallible DOGE was). Or a government shutdown. Or ...
In all of those situations, the child still has needs that need to be paid for.
Then those responsibilities should fall on the state. If we all give a shit that kids are going without then lets solve the issue instead of ringing out our pearls.
But it's a small sum of money for potentially a large screwup with potential permanent side effects, like losing a cross border job. Of course, cross border anything is less and less likely these days.
I accidentally read the comments on the post and got as far as this one:
“Honestly, since we're going towards socialism, we need to abolish child support. Women have the right to get an abortion because it is their body their choice. A man has to use his body …”
Is this good because they're helping single mothers who need child support from their deadbeat baby-daddies, or is it bad because it's being rolled out by the Trump administration? Was this proposed by Biden originally?
They are probably referring to a study suggesting that Black and Hispanic families are more often suffering from non- or underpayment of child support (and from lesser amounts of support being ordered) than among White families [1]. That together with voter demographics going strongly for Democrat support among Black families [2] makes this at least a correlation supported by facts.
However, I think it is not causal because under- or nonpayment of child support is linked to financial difficulties and income disparities, which non-White people are experiencing at significantly higher rates.
Think the original language is 1996 and Clinton. Or, more properly, I guess, Gingrich. I don't know all the details, saw that somewhere else and can't remember where.
I've been told that American's have a very low rate of passport issuance. I don't know if that's true, but the figure quoted was only 10% of adults hold passports. Is this a really effective way to get people to pay for their kids, or just the appearance of doing something to quiet the voters?
It's possible this might have a significant (not small, not necessarily large) impact on the smaller subset of delinquent parents that might currently have a larger double digit percentage (30% say) skipping to Canada, Mexico, or elsewhere to avoid being chased down.
Or not.
The main point here is that it's not the entire population of regular US citizens that should be looked at here, more the specific behaviour of the subset in question.
Presumably it would be very effective for some demographics and not so effective for others. 10% is still a very large group of people. People who would be affected are also probably people who can afford international travel, so the affected are probably disporportionally the group who are failing to pay despite having a bunch of spare income.
As an american it is true that most people don’t have passports - the act of flying internationally is either out of reach economically or culturally. This does give mostly out of touch opression where the margins are the targets and the white dudes will likely get a pass, so the latter.
Not commenting one way or the other, but here is what authorizes this:
The Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Reconciliation Act of 1996 (PRWORA)[0]
SEC. 370. DENIAL OF PASSPORTS FOR NONPAYMENT OF CHILD SUPPORT. (a) HHS Certification Procedure.— (1) Secretarial responsibility.—Section 452 (42 U.S.C. 652), as amended by section 345 of this Act, is amended by adding at the end the following new subsection: “(k)(1) If the Secretary receives a certification by a State agency in accordance with the requirements of section 454(31) that an individual owes arrearages of child support in an amount exceeding $5,000, the Secretary shall transmit such certification to the Secretary of State for action (with respect to denial, revocation, or limitation of passports) pursuant to paragraph (2). “(2) The Secretary of State shall, upon certification by the Secretary transmitted under paragraph (1), refuse to issue a passport to such individual, and may revoke, restrict, or limit a passport issued previously to such individual.[1]
The above may have predated the amended copy, as a threshold of $2,500 seemed to be the case at least 3 years ago, for whatever that is worth.
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_Responsibility_and_Wo...
[1] https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/COMPS-1793/uslm/COMPS-17...
Owing child support is a negative on children and society in general, but I'm sure there are plenty who will argue in favor of it.
I don't have much of a problem with the $100K penalties.
I have a lot more issue with a $2.5K limit--that could be just one or two (intentionally or unintentionally) misreported payments. Or a paycheck hiccup. Or a layoff. Or a government error (because we all know how infallible DOGE was). Or a government shutdown. Or ...
We specifically decry the concepts of debtor's prisons and social credit in the US. For good reasons.
This is leaving aside the whole discussion about your passport being an identity document that isn't subject to control of a single US state government like your driver's license.
> I have a lot more issue with a $2.5K limit--that could be just one or two (intentionally or unintentionally) misreported payments. Or a paycheck hiccup. Or a layoff. Or a government error (because we all know how infallible DOGE was). Or a government shutdown. Or ...
In all of those situations, the child still has needs that need to be paid for.
Then those responsibilities should fall on the state. If we all give a shit that kids are going without then lets solve the issue instead of ringing out our pearls.
But it's a small sum of money for potentially a large screwup with potential permanent side effects, like losing a cross border job. Of course, cross border anything is less and less likely these days.
I accidentally read the comments on the post and got as far as this one:
“Honestly, since we're going towards socialism, we need to abolish child support. Women have the right to get an abortion because it is their body their choice. A man has to use his body …”
That was enough for me.
This but unironically. If a woman can choose to abort then a man should be able to choose not to have anything to do with his children.
Looks like China is just ahead of the curve where you can't buy a plane ticket or book a train if you owe debts.
And in Dubai you can't open your door!
Hey look, there's some chairs over there yonder. Anyone want to help me move them around a little? Rearrange them perchance?
RIP USA.
Is this good because they're helping single mothers who need child support from their deadbeat baby-daddies, or is it bad because it's being rolled out by the Trump administration? Was this proposed by Biden originally?
Idk, but it may also be a ploy to disfranchise voters (if a passport is required to vote), as this hits Democrats voter potential harder.
That's really clever and may be the reason why the limit is so low.
Democrats tend to be deadbeat dads? What?
They are probably referring to a study suggesting that Black and Hispanic families are more often suffering from non- or underpayment of child support (and from lesser amounts of support being ordered) than among White families [1]. That together with voter demographics going strongly for Democrat support among Black families [2] makes this at least a correlation supported by facts.
However, I think it is not causal because under- or nonpayment of child support is linked to financial difficulties and income disparities, which non-White people are experiencing at significantly higher rates.
[1] https://www.irp.wisc.edu/wp/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/CSRA-...
[2] https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2024/04/09/partisanship...
Poverty is the underlying factor.
Gestures to all the red states which on average have higher rates of crippling poverty.
You done being wrong yet?
What are you making an argument for or against?
Think the original language is 1996 and Clinton. Or, more properly, I guess, Gingrich. I don't know all the details, saw that somewhere else and can't remember where.