Cloudflare responded to the "Copy Fail" Linux vulnerability

(blog.cloudflare.com)

38 points | by mobeigi 2 hours ago ago

32 comments

  • john_strinlai an hour ago

    this is a techincal dive into how cloudflare responded, not a confirmation that they responded

    for whatever reason, unknown to me, hn automatically strips "how" from the start of titles. i cant remember ever seeing a title where this was an improvement.

    • gamegoblin 12 minutes ago

      I learned a few years ago that HN also editorializes by dropping "world's" from titles

      Before: Teens break record for world's longest kickball game

      After: Teens break record for longest kickball game

    • varun_ch 29 minutes ago

      I'm yet to see a good example of the title stripping, at least for "how" and "how to" (although perhaps this is survivorship bias).

    • trollbridge an hour ago

      Starting a title with “How” is standard clickbait.

      • Goronmon 40 minutes ago

        If we are taking that attitude why not go all the way?

        Titles are standard clickbait.

        • miki123211 4 minutes ago

          With LLMs, you could actually do anti-clickbait titles. Extract the article text with something like r.jina.ai, and ask an LLM to generate a ~80-character summary that explains the main point of the article for people too busy to read it.

          I do think this would genuinely be useful.

      • gilrain 13 minutes ago

        Starting a sentence with “How” is standard English, too.

  • sammy2255 28 minutes ago

    Any Cloudflare employees reading this, your network map has a few PoPs missing from it https://www.cloudflare.com/network/ notably, Perth (PER) Australia. Hobart (HBA) Australia. Wellington (WLG), New Zealand. Christchurch (CHC), New Zealand. Nausori (SUV), Fiji.

  • srcreigh 28 minutes ago

    It’s fascinating that already had a system which could identify the exploit at runtime. How can I learn more about that?

  • PunchyHamster 10 minutes ago

    for us it was

    * Get list of modules from Puppet's facts, confirm module isn't used anywhere (it wasn't) * `install algif_aead /bin/false` in /etc/modprobe.d/disable-algif.conf * Run a check using exploit code to check it is no longer working

    I imagine CF runs more stuff that could use it I guess but apparently it's not often used API

  • skinfaxi an hour ago

    Would love to learn more about their internal behavioural detection program.

    > One of the first things our security team did was confirm that our existing endpoint detection would catch this exploit. Our servers run behavioral detection that continuously monitors process execution patterns. It doesn't rely on knowing about specific vulnerabilities; it watches for anomalous behavior across the fleet.

    • CGamesPlay an hour ago

      Would certainly be interesting to learn more about. A simple check: allowlist of known "processes that run as root". Any new process shows up, something happened.

      • jeffbee an hour ago

        Based on what? Proc title?

        • CGamesPlay an hour ago

          Proc title is very easily forged (without root even). Obviously a real privileged process could modify the kernel and do whatever it wants, but if I were trying to detect this I would start with /proc/$id/exe.

          • Retr0id 29 minutes ago

            /proc/pid/exe is also easily forged, without root. For example you can do LD_PRELOAD=evil.so /bin/foo on any dynamic executable, or spawn /bin/foo unmodified and inject code via ptrace or /proc/pid/mem.

            I have a fileless, execless copyfail exploit that works by injecting shellcode directly into systemd's pid 1. (I should probably publish it at some point...)

            • jeffbee 19 minutes ago

              Yeah the whole system is based on the ability of one task to apparently become another task, that's how Unix works. So the indicators in /proc are just that: indicative at best.

              There's no reason the task should even be assumed to be executing code in a file. A process can map code into anonymous memory and continue executing there without even branching. Again this is considered a feature of the system rather than a flaw.

          • jeffbee 34 minutes ago

            Maybe, but there's a prctl to change that reference which a root process can use.

        • dboreham 30 minutes ago

          They might just compute a hash over the binary, or the code space in memory.

        • parliament32 an hour ago

          It's curious they're just "monitoring" rather than preventing.

          In a serious environment you'd run IPE with dm-verity/fs-verity to ensure binaries are whitelisted and integrity-checked at every execution.

          • staticassertion 13 minutes ago

            lol no one does that (edit: or, rather, that is extremely uncommon, even in "serious" environments, for a ton of reasons).

    • staticassertion 12 minutes ago

      Syscalls and kernel module loading can both be logged, I assume that's sufficient here.

    • mobeigi 26 minutes ago

      I'd very much like to learn more about this too, deserves its own blog post.

  • cube00 26 minutes ago

    > At the time of the "Copy Fail" disclosure, the majority of our infrastructure was running the 6.12 LTS version

    It sounds great but that could be as low as 50.1% since they don't provide an actual percentage.

  • jmclnx 13 minutes ago

    > Linux kernel build based on the community's Long-Term Support (LTS)

    CopyFail only highlights why Companies want LTS. If there was a supported kernel built prior to 2017, most large companies would still be on that version, avoiding this issue all-together.

    The corporate mindset is usually "never upgrade unless there is new hardware needed or critical software failure". All CopyFail did was reinforce that mindset.

    I wonder if CopyFail will cause enterprises put pressure on the Linux Foundation to maintain a "ultra LTS" were it is supported for 20 years ?

    • PunchyHamster 8 minutes ago

      > CopyFail only highlights why Companies want LTS. If there was a supported kernel built prior to 2017, most large companies would still be on that version, avoiding this issue all-together.

      Sadly not really how it works for say Red Hat. They routinely backport features while keeping whatever "stable" number on kernel. We even had displeasure of them backporting a bug... same bug to 2 different RHEL versions

  • dboreham 31 minutes ago

    The "Hunting for Exploitation" section is unclear to me: "The exploit leaves a distinctive trace in kernel logs when it runs." Hmm. Wouldn't a system with a compromised kernel also log exactly what the attacker wanted logged?

    • PunchyHamster 8 minutes ago

      Your exploit would have to get root and kill/exploit the logging daemon near instantly, else the log will already be sent to remote before you can change it locally

    • rithdmc 14 minutes ago

      The attack itself creates the logs, which - reading between the lines - are shipped to a central log server. A compromised server might not send any new indicators to the logs, but existing logs moved off device would still be available.

      I'd like to know what those distinctive traces are, which is also missing :(

    • cube00 21 minutes ago

      I guess the hope is the kernel has been able to successfully transmit that log message to the immutable central logging infra before it gets compromised.

      Although given the tendency for end point logging agents to run on buffers to reduce their network chattiness I do wonder if a fast acting exploit could dump that buffer before it manages to be transmitted.

      I don't think any of the agents are complex enough to immediately transmit permission elevation log messages over the regular background noise.