.de TLD offline due to DNSSEC?

(dnssec-analyzer.verisignlabs.com)

492 points | by warpspin 4 hours ago ago

220 comments

  • krystofbe 4 hours ago

    Looks like a DNSSEC issue, not a nameserver outage. Validating resolvers SERVFAIL on every .de name with EDE:

    RRSIG with malformed signature found for a0d5d1p51kijsevll74k523htmq406bk.de/nsec3 (keytag=33834) dig +cd amazon.de @8.8.8.8 works, dig amazon.de @a.nic.de works. Zone data is intact, DENIC just published an RRSIG over an NSEC3 record that doesn't validate against ZSK 33834. Every validating resolver therefore refuses to answer.

    Intermittency fits anycast: some [a-n].nic.de instances still serve the previous (good) signatures, so retries occasionally land on a healthy auth. Per DENIC's FAQ the .de ZSK rotates every 5 weeks via pre-publish, so this smells like a botched rollover.

    • qazwsxedchac 2 hours ago

      So a single configuration mistake in a single place wiped out external reachability of a major economy. It happened in the evening local time and should be fixable, modulo cache TTLs, by morning. This will limit the blast radius somewhat.

      Still, at this level, brittle infrastructure is a political risk. The internet's famous "routing around damage" isn't quite working here. Should make for an interesting post mortem.

      • belorn an hour ago

        I am reminded of the warning that zonemaster gives about putting your domain name servers on a single AS, as is common practice for many larger providers. A lot of people do not want others to see this as a problem since a single AS is a convenient configuration for routing, but it has the downside of being a single point of failure.

        Building redundant infrastructure that can withstand BGP and DNS configuration mistakes are not that simple but it can be done.

      • pocksuppet 2 hours ago

        DNS is a centralization risk, yes. Somehow we've decided this is fine. DNSSEC isn't the only issue - your TLD's nameservers could also be offline, or censored in your country.

        • skywhopper an hour ago

          DNS is barely centralized. Is there an alternative global name lookup system that is less centralized without even worse downsides?

          • pocksuppet 24 minutes ago

            BGP, but the names in question are limited to 128 bits, of which at most 48 will be looked up, and you don't get to choose which 48 bits are assigned to you.

        • greatgib an hour ago

          Normally it should not have been, with cache and all, but that was the past...

          Think about what would happen the day that letsencrypt is borken for whatever reason technical or like having a retarded US leader and being located in the wrong country. Taken into account the push of letsencrypt with major web browsers to restrict certificate validities for short periods like only a few days...

          • muvlon 32 minutes ago

            Let's Encrypt has to be down for days before people begin to feel the pain. DNS is very different, it breaks stuff immediately everywhere.

        • cyberax an hour ago

          Not really? .com and .net are still up

          If Let's Encrypt goes down, half of the Internet will become inaccessible in a week.

          • akerl_ 4 minutes ago

            Presumably if LetsEncrypt goes down and stays down for a week, the sites that go down are the ones that see that their CA went down and at no point in the week take the option to get certs from a different CA?

      • Muromec an hour ago

        >So a single configuration mistake in a single place wiped out external reachability of a major economy.

        And fuck nothing at all happened as a result.

        • Our_Benefactors 37 minutes ago

          Prove it? I’m sure many lifespans were lost to stress

      • lschueller 2 hours ago

        I have a bad feeling, that the impact will be quite severe for some services, as monitoring, performance, and security services might get disrupted. and just cleaning up is a big mess.. Worst case, some ot will experience outage and / or damage. But maybe I am just overestimating the severity of this.

      • walrus01 2 hours ago

        It looks like a failed key replacement during a scheduled maintenance event. Normally this sort of thing is thoroughly tested and has multiple eyes on for detailed review and planning before changes get committed, but obviously something got missed.

      • the8472 2 hours ago

        fail-closed protocols have introduced some brittleness. A HTTP 1.0 server from 1999 probably still can service visitors today. A HTTPS/TLS 1.0 server from the same year wouldn't.

    • dlopes7 2 hours ago

      I love how I work with IT for 20 years and don't understand a single acronym here other than DNSSEC

      • icedchai 2 hours ago

        I've been in IT 30+ years, been running DNS, web servers, etc. since at least 1994. I haven't bothered with DNSSEC due to perceived operational complexity. The penalty for a screw up, a total outage, just doesn't seem worth the security it provides.

      • walrus01 2 hours ago

        To be fair, advanced real world knowledge of public/private key PKIs (x.509 or other), things like root CAs, are a fairly esoteric and very specialized field of study. There's people whose regular day jobs are nothing but doing stuff with PKI infrastructure and their depth of knowledge on many other non-PKI subjects is probably surface level only.

        • hannob 2 hours ago

          I know quite a bit about PKI and X.509, and I can tell you that much: the overlap with how DNSSEC works is limited.

          • silisili 2 hours ago

            As is the overlap between DNSSEC and DNS itself, to be honest.

            I once worked at the level of administering DNSSEC for 300+ TLDs. It's its own world. When that company was winding down, I tried to continue in the field but the most common response (outside of no response, of course), was 'we already have a DNS team/vendor/guy.' And well, then things like this happen. I won't throw stones though, it's a lot to learn and can be incredibly brittle.

        • hathawsh 2 hours ago

          Is that actually true, though? Even though it's not really my job, I find myself debugging certificates and keys at least once a month, and that's after automating as much as possible with certbot and cloud certificates. PKI always seems to demand attention.

          • walrus01 2 hours ago

            In my initial comment, I meant more in terms of complexity and planning from the perspective of the people who are running the public/private key infrastructure on the other side/upstream of what you're doing as a letsencrypt end user.

            Broadly similar general concept to the team responsible for the DNSSSEC signing keys for an entire ccTLD.

            Yeah a x509 PKI / root CA is a very different thing than DNSSSEC but they have a number of general logical similarities in that the chain of trust ultimately comes down to a "do not fuck this up" single point of failure.

        • mschuster91 2 hours ago

          It's not made easier by the fact that a lot of cryptography is either very old and arcane or it's one hell of a mess of code that doesn't make sense without reading standards.

          I had the misfortune of having to dig deep into constructing ASN.1 payloads by hand [1] because that's the only thing Java speaks, and oh holy hell is this A MESS because OF COURSE there's two ways to encode a bunch of bytes (BIT STRING vs OCTET STRING) and encoding ed25519 keys uses BOTH [2].

          And ed25519 is a mess in itself. The more-or-less standard implementation by orlp [3] is almost completely lacking any comments explaining what is going on where and reading the relevant RFCs alone doesn't help, it's probably only understandable by reading a 500 pages math paper.

          It's almost as if cryptographers have zero interest in interested random people to join the field.

          End of rant.

          [1] https://github.com/msmuenchen/meshcore-packets-java/blob/mai...

          [2] https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc8410#appendix-A

          [3] https://github.com/orlp/ed25519/tree/master

          • Muromec an hour ago

            The trick to asn.1 is to generate both parser and serializer from the spec. Elliptic curve math on the other hand is ... yeah, you need to know the math and also know the tricks to code that implements it. Both of those have steep learning curve, but it's hardly because it's a mess or it's old.

            • tptacek 42 minutes ago

              The trick to ASN.1 is to serialize/unserialize it backwards.

            • mschuster91 43 minutes ago

              > Both of those have steep learning curve, but it's hardly because it's a mess or it's old.

              Bitpacking structures used to be important in the 60s. That time has passed, unless you're dealing with LoRa, NFC or other cases of highly constrained bandwidth there are way better options to serialize and deserialize information. It's time to move on, and the complexity of all the legacy garbage in crypto has been the case of many a security vulnerability in the past.

              As for the code, it might be personal preference but I'd love to have at least some comments referring back to a specification or original research paper in the code.

              • Muromec 25 minutes ago

                I think you misunderstand the problem asn.1 solves and constrains it works within (both 30 years ago and now). We sure can have a better one now once we learned all the lessons and know what good parts to keep, but this critique of bitpacking is misplaced.

              • Avamander 37 minutes ago

                ASN.1 is not used because of just bitpacking. There are other benefits to ASN.1 and it's probably one of the least problematic parts there.

                People who have thought they can do better have made things like PGP. It's one of the worst cryptographic solutions out there. You're free to try as well though.

                • Muromec 23 minutes ago

                  People who though they can do better did JWT, that is not complicated at all and has no bugs as well. Also solves 20% of what asn.1 is used for.

          • tptacek an hour ago

            The typical vector for entering cryptography as a professional is called "grad school".

          • cyberax an hour ago

            X.509 is a deep legacy, but at least at this point it's well tested.

            > because that's the only thing Java speaks

            No, it most definitely is not. You can just construct a private key directly in BouncyCastle: https://downloads.bouncycastle.org/java/docs/bcprov-jdk18on-...

            I'm 100% certain that you also can do that with raw java.security. I did that about 15 years ago with raw RSA/EC keys. You can just directly specify the private exponent for RSA (as a bigint!) or the curve point for EC.

            Ditto for ed25519, you can just take the canonical implementation from DJB. And you really really shouldn't do that anyway, please just use OpenSSL or another similar major crypto library.

            • Muromec an hour ago

              I wouldn't recommend touching openssl (the library, command line tools are okay-ish) with anything that breaths life.

            • mschuster91 an hour ago

              > I'm 100% certain that you also can do that with raw java.security.

              I tried that, the problem is Meshcore specific - they do their own weird shit with private and public keys [1]. Haven't figured out how to do the private key import either, because in the C source code (or in python re-implementations) Meshcore just calls directly into the raw ed25519 library to do their custom math... it's a mess.

              [1] https://jacksbrain.com/2026/01/a-hitchhiker-s-guide-to-meshc...

      • bflesch 2 hours ago

        Don't worry, that's by design ;)

  • Aldipower 2 hours ago

    Apparently the DENIC team was on a party this evening! Party hard, but not too hard. https://bsky.app/profile/denic.de/post/3ml4r2lvcjg2h

    • FinnKuhn 2 hours ago

      A real party killer if I have ever seen one.

      • SOLAR_FIELDS 2 hours ago

        At least all of the appropriate people were in a room together when the outage happened

        • SpaceNoodled 2 hours ago

          Sounds like poor risk pooling. If that room crashed, we'd have nobody to fix this.

          • bflesch 2 hours ago

            nation state actor picking right time to sabotage a tiny part of the key rotation process. on monday someone cut major fiber lines, on tuesday DENIC is failing.

            maybe someone is showing off?

    • walrus01 2 hours ago

      Interesting "bus problem" to have in a scenario where everyone who is qualified, experienced and trusted enough to commit lives changes (or perform a revert, undo results of a botched maintenance, etc) in an emergency situation is not completely sober.

      • femto an hour ago

        Sobriety is just factor to be weighed in an emergency situation. 30 years ago I was at a ski resort with about 50 friends having a drinking competition in the resort's main bar. Late that night two ski lodges collapsed, trapping people inside. Around midnight, soon after the winner was announced, the police entered and asked "who's able to drive a crane truck?" The winner of the competition put his hand up and informed them of how much he had had to drink. Don't care they said, so he drove a crane big enough to lift a building up a single lane 35km mountain road in nighttime ice conditions. (The crane made it, but sadly most of the people in the ski lodges didn't. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1997_Thredbo_landslide )

        • jamesfinlayson 5 minutes ago

          Sounds like Australian police. I remember 15 or so years ago being in a big team assisting the Australian police with something on a remote farm. There were 20 people that needed to be taken back to base and one 10 seater car. Someone asked the police if everyone could get in the car and policeman shrugged and said you can try. So the policeman drove a four wheel drive across farmland with 16 people stuffed into the back.

      • Muromec an hour ago

        Sounds like Europe, yes.

  • SEJeff an hour ago

    Just gonna leave this absolute gem from Thomas Ptacek on DNSSEC here:

    https://sockpuppet.org/blog/2015/01/15/against-dnssec/

    • betaby an hour ago

      Aged like a milk.

      • tptacek 41 minutes ago

        Oh, yeah, I'm sure feeling chastened right now. You got me.

  • tom1337 2 hours ago

    I have never used DNSSEC and never really bothered implementing it, but do I understand it correctly that we took the decentralized platform DNS was and added a single-point-of-failure certificate layer on top of it which now breaks because the central organisation managing this certificate has an outage taking basically all domains with them?

    • gucci-on-fleek 2 hours ago

      > which now breaks because the central organisation managing this certificate has an outage

      The ".de" TLD is inherently managed by a single organization, and things wouldn't be much better if its nameservers went down. Some of the records would be cached by downstream resolvers, but not all of them, and not for very long.

      > we took the decentralized platform DNS was and added a single-point-of-failure certificate layer on top of it

      DNSSEC actually makes DNS more decentralized: without DNSSEC, the only way to guarantee a trustworthy response is to directly ask the authoritative nameservers. But with DNSSEC, you can query third-party caching resolvers and still be able to trust the response because only a legitimate answer will have a valid signature.

      Similarly, without DNSSEC, a domain owner needs to absolutely trust its authoritative nameservers, since they can trivially forge trusted results. But with DNSSEC, you don't need to trust your authoritative nameservers nearly as much [0], meaning that you can safely host some of them with third-parties.

      [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47409728

      • tom1337 2 hours ago

        > DNSSEC actually makes DNS more decentralized: without DNSSEC, the only way to guarantee a trustworthy response is to directly ask the authoritative nameservers. But with DNSSEC, you can query third-party caching resolvers and still be able to trust the response because only a legitimate answer will have a valid signature.

        but how would one verify the signature if the DNSKEY expired and you cannot fetch a fresh one because the organisation providing those keys is down? As far as I understood the TTL for those keys is different and for DENIC it seems to be 1h [0]. So if they are down for more than an hour and all RRSIG caches expire, DNS zones which have a higher TTL than 1h but use DNSSEC would also be down?

        [0] dig RRSIG de. @8.8.8.8

        de. 3600 IN RRSIG DNSKEY 8 1 3600 20260519214514 20260505201514 26755 de. [...]

        • gucci-on-fleek 2 hours ago

          > but how would one verify the signature if the DNSKEY expired and you cannot fetch a fresh one because the organisation providing those keys is down?

          In theory, this shouldn't happen, because if you use the same TTLs for your DNSSEC records and your "regular" records, then if the regular records are present in the cache, the DNSSEC records will be too.

          > So if they are down for more than an hour and all RRSIG caches expire, DNS zones which have a higher TTL than 1h but use DNSSEC would also be down?

          Yes, but I'd argue that the DNSSEC records should have the same TTLs for exactly this reason. That's how my domain is set up at least:

            $ dig +nocmd +nocomments +nostats +dnssec @any.ca-servers.ca. maxchernoff.ca. DS
            ;maxchernoff.ca.                        IN      DS
            maxchernoff.ca.         86400   IN      DS      62673 15 2 487B95FEFF04265826F037C9DB2E1F14FF9ADBF2C7BE246A2B9F9BFD 481BE928
            maxchernoff.ca.         86400   IN      RRSIG   DS 13 2 86400 20260512131336 20260505104433 46762 ca. ppc9LrWniPWdAI2Xq1g3FrYJGQVYayA5TtgFRkJfqOqNfe6zu/n0gwti IO3c9pOoUpIum5gPB6GLOGbGU+sfhg==
            
            $ dig +nocmd +nocomments +nostats +dnssec @ns.maxchernoff.ca. maxchernoff.ca. DNSKEY
            ;maxchernoff.ca.                        IN      DNSKEY
            maxchernoff.ca.         86400   IN      DNSKEY  257 3 15 DYs9mPDMRx/hQ9R9iGLi1Ysx1eFdhlXeCujY6PqJWeU=
            maxchernoff.ca.         86400   IN      RRSIG   DNSKEY 15 2 86400 20260518072823 20260504055823 62673 maxchernoff.ca. RgPyEvB/kjXIvoidRNF/hfm7utzDs0kxXn4qJL17TUAVYOdbLl0Vd8zt E52bGBBFv2TNEnf9O9LkiT2GBH0jAA==
            
            $ dig +nocmd +nocomments +nostats +dnssec @ns.maxchernoff.ca. maxchernoff.ca. A
            ;maxchernoff.ca.                        IN      A
            maxchernoff.ca.         86400   IN      A       152.53.36.213
            maxchernoff.ca.         86400   IN      RRSIG   A 15 2 86400 20260518072823 20260504055823 62673 maxchernoff.ca. bRfTVHnMjCFRaIh5uc0aT1vD4yh1UZrqOZDRunLbxFI1eth6nNlTiOOC xti7axVoXwB6VAoHOAnW0nL0eeJNDQ==
          • tom1337 an hour ago

            Thanks for explaining. I thought that once any key in the chain-of-trust of any domains DNSSEC expired the whole record went stale but turns out that was a wrong assumption. If the DNSKEY and the other records have the same TTL and the DNSSEC verification is also "cached" then that makes a lot more sense.

            • gucci-on-fleek an hour ago

              > I thought that once any key in the chain-of-trust of any domains DNSSEC expired the whole record went stale but turns out that was a wrong assumption.

              No, that actually is true, but I think (?) that the part that you were missing is that DNSSEC records are mostly the same as any other record, so they can be cached the same way. And since most resolvers are DNSSEC-enabled these days, they'll tend to request (and therefore cache) the DNSSEC records at the same time as the regular records.

              There are tons of edge cases here, but it should hopefully be pretty rare for a cache to have a current A/AAAA record and stale/missing DNSSEC records.

              > the DNSSEC verification is also "cached"

              Technically the verification itself isn't cached, but since verification only depends on the chain of DNSSEC records, and those records are cached, it has the same effect.

    • wahern an hour ago

      DNSSEC doesn't change the degree to which DNS is decentralized. It's always been hierarchical. In the absence of caching, every DNS query starts with a request to the root DNS servers. For foo.com or foo.de, you first need to query the root servers to determine the nameservers responsible for .com and .de. Then you contact the .com or .de servers to ask for the foo.com and foo.de nameservers. All DNSSEC does is add signatures to these responses, and adds public keys so you can authenticate responses the next level down.

      A list of root nameserver IP addresses is included with every local recursive DNS resolver. The list changes, albeit slowly, over the years. With DNSSEC, this list also includes public keys of those root servers, which also rotate, slowly.

    • Medowar 2 hours ago

      What you see here is decentralisation working. The issue is with the operator of the de TLD, and as such only that TLD is affected. DNS is not decentralised in such a way, that multiple organisations run the infrastructure of a TLD, those are always run by a single entity.(.com and .net are operated by Verisign)

      So what the issue is, that the operator has, does not change the impact.

      • AndroTux 2 hours ago

        What if the root (.) certificate breaks?

        • pocksuppet 2 hours ago

          Resolvers are free to cache each TLD's keys. There's a finite, well-known list of TLDs and their keys - you can download all the root zone data from IANA: https://www.iana.org/domains/root/files (it's a few megabytes in uncompressed text form)

          The world might be a little bit better with more decentralization of the root zone.

  • tom1337 an hour ago

    Cloudflare has now disabled DNSSEC validation on their 1.1.1.1 resolver: https://www.cloudflarestatus.com/incidents/vjrk8c8w37lz

    • tptacek an hour ago

      Welp. I think can call it on DNSSEC now.

      • amluto an hour ago

        Hahaha. You wish :-p

        • tptacek 43 minutes ago

          It's a pretty hard argument to work around: WebPKI certificates should go in the DNS, and also the largest DNS providers might at any moment decide not to validate DNSSEC anymore to get through an outage.

    • cluckindan an hour ago

      If it turns out the DNSSEC issue was caused by threat actors, this downstream effect could very well have been the reason to do it.

      • amluto an hour ago

        It is indeed a bit sad that Cloudflare had to turn off DNSSEC completely. But I completely understand that they don't have a production-ready, tested path to override DNSSEC validation for only some domains.

        • vendemiat 19 minutes ago

          Sorry! status message was not clear. DNSSEC validation is temporarily disabled only for .de domains.

          • tptacek 9 minutes ago

            That's not much better!

  • siva7 3 hours ago

    Crazy. I can't remember an incident like this ever happened before and it's still not fixed? .de is probably the most important unrestricted domain after .com from an economical perspective. Millions of businesses are "down".

    • 8organicbits 3 minutes ago

      There's a good index of major DNSSEC outages here, https://ianix.com/pub/dnssec-outages.html

    • rwmj 3 hours ago

      I remember when .com went down, in July 1997.

      https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/library/cyber/we...

      • ctippett 2 hours ago

        > For instance, the name "www.nytimes.com" corresponds to nine different computers that answer requests for The New York Times on the Web, one of which is 199.181.172.242

          $ dig -x 199.181.172.242 +short
          www2.nytimes.com.
        
        Neat.
    • AndroTux 2 hours ago

      DENIC apparently resolved all .de domains to NXDOMAIN in 2010: https://www.theregister.com/2010/05/12/germany_top_level_dom...

    • lschueller 3 hours ago

      It's Germany, pessimistic time estimation + 1/3 and you are in a realistic time frame for the issue being resolved.

      • warpspin 3 hours ago

        It's night. Somebody has to fill a form to approve night work first.

        • daneel_w an hour ago

          And then fax the form to the correct authority, so that the request is Official(tm).

        • carstenhag 2 hours ago

          I know that people are joking, but of course we also have (extra paid) on call shifts.

        • greyhound 2 hours ago

          And send it by post for approval, which will take 5-30 business days.

          • dgellow 2 hours ago

            Fax, actually! Will still take 5–30 business days for approval, for some reasons

          • 9dev 2 hours ago

            Oh come on, that’s not true. You could also fax it. That might come with an additional processing fee though.

          • rasz 2 hours ago

            Dont be ridiculous, thats what FAX is for.

        • snapetom 3 hours ago

          Luckily it's not Sunday. Everyone would be out in the country hiking.

      • Cockbrand 3 hours ago

        In addition: it's Germany, pessimistic cost estimation + 2000%, and you are in a realistic budget for the issue being resolved.

    • carstenhag 2 hours ago

      Well it was already very late in the day (21-22?) so the impact was not big I would say

    • HDBaseT 2 hours ago

      Germany isn't as big as you think.

      • trollbridge 2 hours ago

        Yeah it's only the third largest economy in the world

        • Muromec 43 minutes ago

          I just checked and the can of Paulaner in the fridge is not affected by the outage so far, thus my trust into German economy remains unshaken.

  • aboardRat4 11 minutes ago
  • pocksuppet 3 hours ago

    I must be early. There's not a single tptacek DNSSEC rant in this thread yet.

    • tptacek an hour ago

      What would I need to rant about? Sometimes the world does my ranting for me.

    • apaprocki an hour ago

      Maybe he drank a little too much Malört with the DENIC team last night?

    • aberoham 3 hours ago

      He’s busy with MathAcademy earning XP-SEC

    • 0123456789ABCDE 3 hours ago

      doesn't this event speak for itself though?

      • Avamander 2 hours ago

        Kind-of. But there are worse things than outages when it's PKIs we're talking about. DNSSEC is also extremely opaque and unmonitored. Any compromise will not be noticed. Nor will anyone have any recourse against misbehaving roots.

        Fun fact, CloudFlare has used the same KSK for zones it serves more than a decade now.

        • daneel_w an hour ago

          Which is fine. Not because KSK rollover is supposedly complicated, but if you can't manage to keep your private keys and PKI safe in the first place then key rotation is just a security circus trick. But if you do know how to keep them safe, then...

          • Avamander 32 minutes ago

            It is not fine. Keeping key material safe is not a boolean between "permanently safe" and "leaks immediately".

            Keeping key material secure for more than a decade while it's in active use is vastly more complex than keeping it secure for a month, until it rotates.

            For all we know, some ex-employee might be walking around with that KSK, theoretically being able to use it for god knows what for an another decade.

    • mike-cardwell 3 hours ago

      Perhaps he's moribund

  • chromehearts 3 hours ago

    I was STRESSING tf out because I wasn't able to connect to my services & apps through my domains like at all .. they only work when using my phone data ? .. thank god it's not my fault this time

    • Locke80 3 hours ago

      But we're Germans, and we need someone to blame.

      • lschueller 3 hours ago

        Thank god for the german chain of blame: 1. The system 2. The neighbor 3. China

        • warpspin 3 hours ago

          You definitely forgot Merkel and Habeck.

      • AndroTux 3 hours ago

        I'm blaming chromehearts anyways

  • sundiver 4 hours ago

    Yes, all .de domains down because of DNSSEC failure at Denic https://dnsviz.net/d/de/dnssec/

  • sunaookami 3 hours ago

    https://status.denic.de/ says "Partial Service Disruption" for DNS Nameservice now.

    EDIT: it says "Service Disruption" now

    • port3000 2 hours ago

      Even when every site in the world’s 3rd biggest economy goes down it’s still just a ‘Partial’ service disruption :D

    • gruselhaus 2 hours ago

      Whole Germany is offline. DENIC: "Partial Service Disruption". That's one way to phrase it.

    • MASNeo 3 hours ago

      At least they have some humor left.

      Edit: Now even the humor is gone.

      • sunaookami 3 hours ago

        Can only be topped when the status page is not reachable anymore :D

        EDIT: called it...

        • lschueller 3 hours ago

          Or only accessible through a german dns server

    • niklasrde 2 hours ago

      It says "Server Not Found" now

    • cubefox 21 minutes ago

      "All Systems Operational"

      • Zopieux 18 minutes ago

        Yes, it's fixed.

  • kuerbel 3 hours ago

    I just spent the better half of an hour to debug unbound and the pihole because I thought it's a me problem...

    Good news though, if you add domain-insecure: "de" to your unbound config everything works fine

    • Bender 3 hours ago

      I don't even enable DNSSEC in Unbound. There just isn't enough adoption yet for me to feel like I am missing out on something, yet.

      "Cloudflare Radar data shows 8.11% of domains are signed with DNSSEC, but only 0.47% of queries are validated end-to-end." [1]

      Zones I may care about:

      - Amazon.com: unsigned

      - My banks: unsigned

      - Hacker News: unsigned

      - Email that I do not host: unsigned

      - My power companies billing: unsigned

      - I found some! id.me and irs.gov are signed.

      [1] - https://technologychecker.io/blog/dnssec-adoption

    • V__ 2 hours ago

      Just before the outage happened I updated multiple client servers. That was a very stressfull hour trying to figure out why nothing works.

    • victorbjorklund 3 hours ago

      Same haha

    • chromehearts 3 hours ago

      SAMEEEEE !!!

  • __michaelg 3 hours ago

    Finally establishing the concept of Feiertag on the internet. Come back tomorrow.

    • throw1234567891 3 hours ago

      Internetfreie Dienstage, 21st century variant of Autofreie Sonntage.

    • 9753268996433 3 hours ago

      Using this newfangled thingamabob on a silent holiday will result in the police kicking in your door the next morning.

  • 1vuio0pswjnm7 3 hours ago

    .de TLD is online. DNS working fine

    DNSSEC not working

    If using an open resolver, i.e., a shared DNS cache, e.g., third party DNS service such as Google, Cloudflare, etc., then it might fail, or it might not. It depends on the third party DNS provider

    https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/118/materials/slides-11...

  • kaltsturm 2 hours ago

    Denic will be added to the "Major DNSSEC Outages and Validation Failures" list: https://ianix.com/pub/dnssec-outages.html

  • nfreising 2 hours ago

    They can join the (rather long) list of TLD DNSSEC outages https://ianix.com/pub/dnssec-outages.html

  • iknowstuff 3 hours ago

    Kurzgesagt predicted this, Germany is OVER

  • edb_123 2 hours ago

    Things seem to be on their way up now, and https://status.denic.de/ is working again, at least from here.

    DENIC's status page currently says "Frankfurt am Main, 5 May 2026 – DENIC eG is currently experiencing a disruption in its DNS service for .de domains. As a result, all DNSSEC-signed .de domains are currently affected in their reachability. The root cause of the disruption has not yet been fully identified. DENIC’s technical teams are working intensively on analysis and on restoring stable operations as quickly as possible.

  • basilikum 22 minutes ago

    This is the kind of system failure that we need really good and well tested disaster recovery plans for. While not necessary this time, DENIC and any critical infrastructure provider should be able to rebuild their entire infrastructure from scratch in a tolerable amount of time (Rather days than hours in the case of a full rebuild). Importantly the disaster recovery plan has to work without reliance on either the system that is failing, but also on adjacent systems that might have hidden dependencies on the failing system.

    I'm really not too close to Denic and know nothing about their internals, but just close enough to have experienced the frustration of someone working for DENIC second hand, but in person, during the disaster. From the very limited information I happened to gather DENIC had some trouble in addressing the issue because, surprise, infrastructure that they need to do so runs on de domains. [1]

    I'm convinced there are all kinds of extended cyclic decencies between different centralization points in the net.

    If some important backbone of the internet is down for an extended time, this will absolutely cause cascading failures. And thesw central points of failure are only getting worse. I love Let's Encrypt, but if something causes them to hard fail things will go really bad once certificates start to expire.

    We need concrete plans to cold start extended parts of the internet. If things go really bad once and communication lines start to fail, we're in for a bad time.

    Maybe governments have redundant, ultra resistant, low tech communication lines, war rooms and a list of important people in the industry who they can find and put in these war rooms so they can coordinate the rebuild of infrastructure. But I doubt it.

    [^1] I don't know if there is some kind of disaster plan in the drawer at DENIC that would address this. I don't mean to allege anything against DENIC specifically, but broadly speaking about companies and infrastructure providers, I would not be surprised if there was absolutely no plan on what to do if things really go down and how to cold start cyclic dependencies or where they even are.

  • elevation 3 hours ago

    I've considered hard-coding some addresses into firmware as a fallback for a DNS outtage (which is more likely than not just misconfigured local DNS.) Events like this help justify this approach to the unconcerned.

    • whalesalad 3 hours ago

      The irony is that DNS is a global and distributed system meant to be resilient. It’s the DNSSEC layer on top in this case causing problems.

      • cedilla 2 hours ago

        denic is the single source of truth for zones under .de.

        The only problem with DNSSEC here is that it's complex.

        • akerl_ a few seconds ago

          A complex thing where making a mistake makes your domains drop off the internet seems like a pretty big "only problem".

  • Zopieux an hour ago

    That postmortem should be a fun read, can't wait.

    • retired 31 minutes ago

      We shall transmit the postmortem to you via fax within 25 business days, ja.

  • yassiniz 2 hours ago

    Shops open normally from 8am to 8pm in Germany. Today we decided to pilot opening hours for .de domains as well

  • kangalioo 4 hours ago

    So glad I found someone mention this. Amazon.de, SPIEGEL.de is down. Highly prominent sites unreachable. I wonder how long this will last and how big of a thing this ends up being once people talk about it :o Feels big to me

    • moltar 4 hours ago

      Both examples open for me

      • irundebian 3 hours ago

        Some domains work, some not. I assume that working domains are cached.

    • balou23 3 hours ago

      amazon.de, spiegel.de are down for me, too. heise.de works, but that might've been cached somewhere on my side.

      • yk 3 hours ago

        dig manages to dig out ips for heise.de and tagesschau.de but not spiegel.de amazon.de and google.de However, dig @8.8.8.8 has still amazon.de cached, unlike 1.1.1.1 so perhaps Google to the rescue?

        [Edit] After playing around with it, google seems to have at least some pages cached. After setting dns to 8.8.8.8 amazon.de and spiegel.de work again, my blog does not.

    • theanonymousone 3 hours ago

      idealo.de, ebay.de, and spiegel.de are down, but amazon.de opens for me.

  • dwedge 3 hours ago

    On a slightly unrelated note, I was setting nameservers for two .de domains a few weeks ago and thought my provider was being crazily strict because they kept getting rejected. Turns out you can't point to a nameserver until that nameserver has a zone for the domain, and you can't use nameservers from two providers unless those two providers are both in the NS records at both ends

    • whalesalad 3 hours ago

      Common paint point with DNSSEC. It’s brutal in the domain industry because when you buy a name with DNSSEC enabled it oftentimes can’t be setup to resolve due to these sorts of issues. Typically seller needs to deactivate first.

  • kaltsturm 3 hours ago
  • merb 3 hours ago

    Well at least it’s night time which means it’s hopefully resolved in the morning.

    Looks like it failed after a maintenance: https://www.namecheap.com/status-updates/planned-denic-de-re...

    https://status.denic.de/

    • gpvos 2 hours ago

      If so, it still worked for several hours after the maintenance was completed.

  • yowmamasita 2 hours ago

    The same day Kurzgesagt posted their video “Germany is over”. Huh. https://youtu.be/n-gYFcVx-8Y

  • NooneAtAll3 15 minutes ago

    quad9 seems to be having problems with DNSSEC as well

  • taf2 an hour ago

    ok i picked a bad day to move from one register to another... i just spent the last hour frantically trying to figure out why the new register screwed us or the old register was screwing us...

  • kaltsturm 2 hours ago

    Denic should work out a desaster recovery test - like: https://blog.apnic.net/2022/02/14/disaster-recovery-with-dns...

  • 0x80h 2 hours ago

    Am I reading this correctly? All .de domains are down? Looking forward to reading the postmortem.

  • 4 hours ago
    [deleted]
  • hmilch99 4 hours ago

    https://pastebin.com/2mQUB8xX seems like someone's going to have a lot of fun tonight

  • edo888 2 hours ago
  • g4cg54g54 2 hours ago

    funfact: enabling DNS sec NOW will fix your domain instantly if dnssec was disabled before

    -> no idea if that also "heals" anyone who had dnssec on before.

    -> no idea if maybe they need to roll back something and then rebreak the new dnssec i made a minute later lol...

  • nuil 4 hours ago
  • yosamino 3 hours ago

    The last time .de I remember .de had a major outage like this was 2010. I would cite some sources but... you know. That was a fun afternoon, though.

    I am very happy that it doesn't happen more often.

  • warpspin 4 hours ago

    Whole .de TLD seems to go offline right now due to dnssec or missing nic.de nameservers?

    • fweimer 4 hours ago

      This works:

          $ unbound-host -t A www.denic.de
          www.denic.de has address 81.91.170.12
      
      This does not:

          $ unbound-host -D -t A www.denic.de
          www.denic.de has address 81.91.170.12
          validation failure <www.denic.de. A IN>: signature crypto failed from 194.246.96.1 for DS denic.de. while building chain of trust
      
      So it does seem DNSSEC-related.

      EDIT My explanation was wrong, this is not how keytags work. The published keytag data is consistent:

          de. 3600 IN DNSKEY 256 3 8 AwEAAfRLmzuIXVf7x5A0+U7hke0dS+GEJG0EdPhnOthCCLhy0t0WqLyoXJOhnfsTJ8vQX5fd9qOJc9gyr3SWJZkXAhPm3yPSC7FWWHF70WZTKKM9CekmKdqwMwq6ZCjMSUcecCuSF4Sbt1MRszV7rFmfGVklA1l5UzNbqwD+Dr5vfcLn ;{id = 33834 (zsk), size = 1024b}
          de. 3600 IN DNSKEY 257 3 8 AwEAAbWUSd/QN9Ae543xzdiacY6qbjwtZ21QfmdgxRdm4Z7bjjHWy249uqxCyjjjoS4LDoRDKmj7ElffMKvTWKE1qFKu0p8TUy4wyhX0M+m5FUjvQ3CiZMi+qY7GSHA5B+Zd73cidmnTeb3e8lso6jEsXg05/VZ2AyAqWF6FexEIFxIqiwwLk4UP0BwZ17Ur3q1qx9VSbPMyHgQ9d6nHUN1EEJsTDA2v0vKumsUyp74ZanRZ/bB/6IzpaaZyr5BLF5pSCNdbRNjVmkwYD0993vm79LueyOeibsoHRc16jhALrIJou1PFjdq7YQsYN0KtqRiJtaAfPprDBREpeamPuW/MnW0= ;{id = 26755 (ksk), size = 2048b}
          de. 3600 IN DNSKEY 256 3 8 AwEAAbTe1PJi8EgIudNGb+KRTxBL2aCu5rXkZ+aIe/TC88pwRdrXYeXODp1ihZWFop5CrbWRBLrk/YUPBE8aBc6oJP+58dSkdMLYkjSkmvdvYx+zXnRLWlF2bapxvZxshATJDfGjGbCiWxKEOoyRx3UhICtHC+cUSddsEvzfacUcBb6n ;{id = 32911 (zsk), size = 1024b}
          de. 3600 IN RRSIG DNSKEY 8 1 3600 20260519030655 20260505013655 26755 de. ke56T5GZt/X6zMBAF+ouyCTnAd7RY7MsnDcfa9jyyOwSouRXhvzim/V13JDTMBAnpAHxWQXoruXrAZ6A6re5N+8Pp2utVkAEKTWs0r4UOLNKoZ2+zMwNplKjNNnY5PJIbHfa5myyziLiIsi//qDIgQEACFk+pZcHXrRdqRoXPCL3UtfaXjk3+duDQdlPnYsJys5UshjVpkALSMChW7J0anzr0sG+f9ytstBneymMwFYOUC3NqbejbLPZsXGPZBQKPAoVJuV5q3znopbcqrDFfjI7bmX3QPYNvOaiT1ElBfi2piJVpDzMaMAmm2jCmvrf5VeTOBccMroh8sBtDPsaEg== ;{id = 26755}
      
      The signature on the SOA record still does not verify:

          de. 86400 IN SOA f.nic.de. dns-operations.denic.de. 1778014672 7200 7200 3600000 7200
          de. 86400 IN RRSIG SOA 8 1 86400 20260519205754 20260505192754 33834 de. aZoiAJ+PaHUDVSHNXfV/R26ZK3GpFB7ek2Z46VnZdmPEDaTww+a7PkiQ98W83xohUunXYSvQCMeGYfUre5UT76eBKThdxW2a6ImX9/x/oEzQ9x/69Y/NSeTckOv9m3HCLBOug01op1koiHOIAVEvonOmXEHHqo1P4sR/fNbcVg4= ;{id = 33834}
      • 3 hours ago
        [deleted]
    • kaltsturm 3 hours ago

      not all: https://www.heise.de/ works

      • edb_123 2 hours ago

        Doesn't work here, at least not anymore. Every single .de domain I have tried doesn't resolve.

      • warpspin 3 hours ago

        Probably just a high TTL.

        • 0123456789ABCDE 3 hours ago

          can confirm, at least another 54k seconds from where i sit

  • kaltsturm 2 hours ago

    from my analysis DENIC resigned the .de zone today (May 5, 2026, ~17:49 UTC). The DNSSEC signature (RRSIG) for the NSEC3 record covering the hash range of nearly all .de TLD is cryptographically broken (malformed).

  • jamietanna 4 hours ago

    Was wondering why a few of my sites aren't CSSing, as they use https://classless.de

  • victorbjorklund 3 hours ago

    I was just wondering what was up with our .de site.

  • Oarch 2 hours ago

    Germany has fallen.

  • kaltsturm 3 hours ago

    even their own status page is not reachable: https://status.denic.de/

    As fallback they should use their X account: https://x.com/denic_de

    • dgellow 3 hours ago

      Seems to be up now?

      May 5, 2026 23:28 CEST

      May 5, 2026 21:28 UTC

      INVESTIGATING

      Frankfurt am Main, 5 May 2026 – DENIC eG is currently experiencing a disruption in its DNS service for .de domains. As a result, all DNSSEC-signed .de domains are currently affected in their reachability. The root cause of the disruption has not yet been fully identified. DENIC’s technical teams are working intensively on analysis and on restoring stable operations as quickly as possible. Based on current information, users and operators of .de domains may experience impairments in domain resolution. Further updates will be provided as soon as reliable findings on the cause and recovery are available. DENIC asks all affected parties for their understanding. For further enquiries, DENIC can be contacted via the usual channels.

      • elch 3 hours ago

        All .de domains are down for me.

      • kaltsturm 3 hours ago

        with firefox: KO with chrome: OK

    • sunaookami 2 hours ago
  • lxgr 3 hours ago

    Wow, I thought I was somehow unaffected but my resolver must just have cached the sites I'd tried.

  • tarruda 3 hours ago

    Mailbox.org (also from Germany) seems to be experiencing issues too.

  • jiveturkey 2 hours ago

    It’s not DNS

    There’s no way it’s DNS

    It was DNSSEC

  • binghatch 4 hours ago

    Wow… it’s definitely not all .de TLDs, but a lot of prominent ones definitely.

    • phit_ 4 hours ago

      its gonna be all .de domains once caches dry out, anything that still works right now is bound to eventually fail until the underlying issue is resolved

      • fossdd 3 hours ago

        Any .de domain with DNSSEC

        • mrngm 3 hours ago

          Unfortunately, even domains that did not have DNSSEC enabled earlier today are affected.

          We observed issues on a non-DNSSEC .de domain at 19:45Z and confirmed around 20:12Z it wasn't just us, but also more high profile domain names.

        • meineerde 3 hours ago

          Any .de domain is affected, regardless of the domain's dnssec deployment status, as long as you use a resolver which validates dnssec.

    • eliaskg 3 hours ago

      Amazon is completely down in Germany. Not only on amazon.de, even in the app.

  • kaltsturm 2 hours ago

    With chrome it works again

  • Animux 2 hours ago

    Seems to be fixed now.

  • whalesalad 3 hours ago

    You can visually see this anomaly in many of CF Radar's charts: https://radar.cloudflare.com/dns/de?dateRange=1d

  • bflesch 2 hours ago

    On Monday there was a huge outage affecting several cities quite close to Frankfurt because someone cut major fiber line; today DENIC is having a party and right when everyone is drunk this happens because some post-rotation task cannot be completed.

    There are too many coincidences happening.

  • dark-star 3 hours ago

    How come I have zero problems with any .de domain I tried accessing in the last half hour?

    • AndroTux 3 hours ago

      maybe your upstream doesn't validate DNSSEC?

      • dark-star 3 hours ago

        maybe? I'm using PiHole and 8.8.8.8/1.1.1.1 as upstream, and both options show "DNSSEC" next to their options in settings, so I assumed DNSSEC was enabled (unless I have to enable this somewhere else as well?)

        • warpspin 3 hours ago

          That's weird cause 8.8.8.8/1.1.1.1 will already answer with SERVFAIL right now, unless the domain is still in the cache.

    • pw6hv 3 hours ago

      cache

  • jiggawatts 3 hours ago

    I work with a few people specialised in IT security, and some of them take their jobs too seriously and will "lock down" everything to the point that it becomes a very real risk that they lock out everyone including themselves.

    Fundamentally, security is a solution to an availability problem: The desire of the users is for a system to remain available despite external attack.

    Systems that become unavailable to everyone fail this requirement.

    A door with its keyhole welded shut is not "secure", it's broken.

    • QuantumNomad_ 3 hours ago

      Security is not just a solution to availability. It is also to keep sensitive data (PII, or business secrets, or passwords, or cryptographic private keys, and so on) away from the hands of bad actors.

      If I’m unable to use Amazon for 24 hours it doesn’t really matter. If a photo copy of my passport is leaked that’s worries and potential troubles for years.

    • senkora 3 hours ago

      Security = Confidentiality + Integrity + Availability

      or alternatively,

      Security = (exclude unauth'd reads) + (exclude unauth'd writes) + (include auth'd reads and auth'd writes)

      Gotta satisfy all parts in order to have security.

      • jiggawatts 3 hours ago

        If you squint at it, you can convert all three to just availability.

            Confidentiality = available to us, but nobody else.
        
            Integrity = available to us in a pristine condition.
        
        It's a bit reductive, I'll admit, but it can be a useful exercise in the same way that everything in an economy can be reduce to units of either: "human time", "money" or "energy". Roughly speaking they're interchangeable.

        E.g.: What's the benefit to you if your data is so confidential that you can't read it either? This is a real problem with some health information systems, where I can't access my own health records! Ditto with many government bureaucracies that keep my records safe and secure from me.

        • dnnddidiej 2 hours ago

          That squint loses too much nuance. I don't think of a site data leak as an availiability problem.

          Bad UX and bugs are in general not always an availiability problem.

          If it hard to get what you want due to bad design but the site is up, the site is still up.

  • sanbaideng 2 hours ago

    aiimageupscaler

  • siginator 3 hours ago

    how is that possible?

  • pogii123 4 hours ago

    For me bmw.de works but www.bmw.de not

    • benny_s 3 hours ago

      bmw.de is down for me too

      • MikeNotThePope 3 hours ago

        Both domains page load for me from Amsterdam. I wonder if there's communication disruption. Undersea cable severed?

        • dark-star 3 hours ago

          You mean the big undersea cable between the Netherlands and Germany? ;-)

        • pogii123 3 hours ago

          $ nslookup bmw.de ~ Server: 8.8.8.8 Address: 8.8.8.8#53

          Non-authoritative answer: Name: bmw.de Address: 160.46.226.165

          $ nslookup www.bmw.de ~ ;; Got SERVFAIL reply from 8.8.8.8, trying next server Server: 8.8.4.4 Address: 8.8.4.4#53

          * server can't find www.bmw.de: SERVFAIL

      • dark-star 3 hours ago

        both work for me from inside Germany

  • amelius an hour ago

    Maybe related to this? Crazy idea, but nothing surprises me anymore.

    https://edition.cnn.com/2026/05/01/politics/us-troop-withdra...