67 comments

  • codethief 2 hours ago

    Related: In the German state of Baden-Württemberg they were miscalculating the number of active teachers for 20 years due to a software error, causing the state to employ 1440 fewer teachers than actually intended.

    https://www.spiegel.de/panorama/bildung/baden-wuerttemberg-s...

    • NewJazz 2 hours ago

      How is that related? That's a long term calculation error vs short term forecasting error.

      • RobRivera 2 hours ago

        From my point of view, the Jedi are a state-funded militia coded as a tax exempt non profit!

  • sgc 3 hours ago

    Given that school budgets are absolutely gutted with mass layoffs this year and next, and the miscalculation looks like 2/3 of the budget shortfall, hiding such a basic and impactful error requires a much better explanation than I see in that article. It looks like it was done to stifle debate about budget allocations, which would be necessary in the circumstances.

    • oatmeal1 2 hours ago

      The education system seems one of the only places where vastly improving technology over the past 30 years has not translated to cost savings or improved outcomes.

      • lostlogin 5 minutes ago

        It turns out that our kids learn better from humans than machines.

        Ever dealt with a kid who has had too much screen time? It’s fucking awful.

      • aaomidi 2 hours ago

        Why would we expect schooling to get…cheaper?

        The vast majority of the cost is hiring teachers. It should be staying in line with inflation or even increasing.

        • JumpCrisscross an hour ago

          > vast majority of the cost is hiring teachers

          My 1,500-student public California high school currently lists 7 administration-team members (principal, executive assistant, three assistant principals, school-facilities manager and food-services manager) and 11 administrative-support members (school data-processing specialist, print-center technician, senior-clerical assistant, separate registrar and attendance roles, interventions-support specialist, and others). That doesn't include 4 site maintenance, a network-support and a separate network-systems specialists; a separate media-library specialist; 2 psychologists; a college and career advisor; 4 school counselors; a wellness-space support specialist; and a social science and an athletic director.

          34 administrative hires. One per 44 students. Many of those roles strike me as fluff.

          • lostlogin 2 minutes ago

            One of the key problems with schools is that everyone thinks they can run them better because they went to school once and have an idea.

            If we left it to domain experts and got politicians to back off, it would be neat to see what educators could achieve.

          • thelock85 43 minutes ago

            It’s because there are tons of laws and regulations regarding minors in school, and administration tends to be homegrown (initial expertise in teaching) rather than explicitly developed to navigate the social, political and legal landscape. I’d wager that more than half of those positions are “best practice” staffing decisions in response to this landscape. A handful might also be due to expressed needs and wants of parents. Likely wasteful overall, but students, teachers and families would likely feel the impact and not be satisfied if any positions were axed.

          • aiiane an hour ago

            Which of those roles specifically would you say are fluff?

            • JumpCrisscross an hour ago

              > Which of those roles specifically would you say are fluff?

              Food-services manager (it's all oursourced to Aramark), data-processing specialist, print-center technician, senior clerical assistant, one of registrar or attendance, two of site maintenance, one of the network specialists (probably both–one across the district is plenty), and probably at least one of the counselors and the separate social science & athletics person, who should just be one of the physical education teachers. That's about ten people, or a million dollars–minimum–in annual savings.

              • aiiane 31 minutes ago

                Someone still has to coordinate with Aramark.

                Data-processing specialist and print-center technician both sound like fancy names for secretarial roles.

                You're honestly saying schools need fewer counselors in what has been generally regarded as the worst generation for child mental health in years?

                • JumpCrisscross 28 minutes ago

                  > Someone still has to coordinate with Aramark

                  As a full-time position? Aramark literally ran the lunch counters. I could see it being a district-level position, though it would be better positioned as a general procurement role.

                  > Data-processing specialist and print-center technician both sound like fancy names for secretarial roles

                  I agree. I was suspicious when I didn't see a secretary for each of the assistant principals listed.

                  > You're honestly saying schools need fewer counselors in what has been generally regarded as the worst generation for child mental health in years?

                  I am. Unless the counselors are constantly doing actual therapy I'm deeply sceptical you need that many for a student body of that size. The fact that they're assigned based on the first letter of your last name versus anything remotely thematic or behaviour based seems to emphasise that hypothesis, for me at least.

                  (When I went to the school, there were bullshit jobs everywhere. One of the counselors didn't deign to meet with students. Her role was "strategic" or some nonsense.)

            • nxm an hour ago

              Can some of the roles be done by fewer individuals? Do you really think there's 0 waste in ever growing schools administrative staff?

        • gruez an hour ago

          >The vast majority of the cost is hiring teachers. It should be staying in line with inflation or even increasing.

          Only if you assume if per-teacher productivity can't increase.

          • nyc_data_geek1 an hour ago

            This is not creating widgets or lines of code, not creating a product for consumption, this is fostering the development of inquisitive minds, hopefully encouraging them to become critical thinkers and ultimately the next generation of leaders who will push the bounds of human knowledge further than ever before.

            Why would better tools be expected to do enable teachers to do that for more students at a time?

            There is a lot of research out there showing worse educational outcomes as class sizes increase. This is one of the areas where wealth disparities in education manifest; rich areas tend to have smaller class sizes, and historically the very rich would pay for private tutors for their kids, whereas poor kids are stuck with bigger class sizes, less individual attention from educators, and typically average worse educational outcomes.

            • gruez 27 minutes ago

              >This is not creating widgets or lines of code, not creating a product for consumption, this is fostering the development of inquisitive minds, hopefully encouraging them to become critical thinkers and ultimately the next generation of leaders who will push the bounds of human knowledge further than ever before.

              There's plenty of drudge work teachers do that's not "fostering the development of inquisitive minds". Grading papers, preparing lesson plans, etc. I don't see why not at least some of that can be offloaded to AI.

          • sgc 43 minutes ago

            Sure, let's have 100 child classes which are hell on earth for everybody involved, starting with the little kids who will literally be scarred for life from it.

            Teacher costs should be going up as much as we can afford, to keep reducing class sizes as a fundamental part of quality education.

            I agree that admin is ripe for efficiency gains. A local school district cut dozens of teaching roles, not even one person from their extremely bloated central administration. It's also out of touch with the schools with no campus visits, and serves mainly as a hindrance to any sort of actual work going on inside the individual schools. It's a horrible caricature of bureaucracy.

          • toast0 33 minutes ago

            You could increase per teacher productivity by running 12 months of school per year, but you would increase costs; and in some parts of California, you would need to rebuild schools with air conditioning to hold classes effectively in the summer.

            Covid showed distance learning doesn't work for most kids. So you can't eliminate real estate costs or hire educators in low cost areas. Computerized education doesn't seem to work, either.

            • gruez 29 minutes ago

              >You could increase per teacher productivity by running 12 months of school per year

              Productivity is output divided by some input, either labor or money. Working for longer isn't going to magically increase productivity.

              >Covid showed distance learning doesn't work for most kids. So you can't eliminate real estate costs or hire educators in low cost areas. Computerized education doesn't seem to work, either.

              Right, I don't have a specific solution for increasing teacher productivity, but it's not obvious that it's a law of economics that it can't increase. People thought lawyers and doctors couldn't be automated away, then came chatgpt.

          • bayarearefugee an hour ago

            > Only if you assume if per-teacher productivity can't increase.

            It can't.

            The only axis upon which teacher "productivity" could increase is by increasing the size of their classes.

            Every study and every practical example of doing that ever done shows that it negatively impacts student outcomes.

            Not because the teacher is failing to be whatever it is you imagine "more productive" to be but because there is a minimum amount of attention needed per student for them to not fall through the cracks and one person's attention is not scalable.

            • JumpCrisscross 31 minutes ago

              > only axis upon which teacher "productivity" could increase is by increasing the size of their classes

              And hours in class. Or productivity of time in class. I'm not saying the former is desirable or latter feasible. But the education "production function" has three inputs.

          • mertd an hour ago

            What I observe as a parent; 95% of the teacher's job cannot be scaled with technology.

        • reassess_blind an hour ago

          Not to mention there are more students.

          • mistrial9 an hour ago

            in California there are not more students.. all tiers of schools show falling enrollments, year after year. Except community colleges, where they have discovered that more than 15% of all students are ghost enrolled.

            -- California K-12 public school enrollment fell by 74,961 students (a 1.3% decline) for the 2025-26 school year, marking the largest drop since the pandemic. This loss was significantly higher than the state’s Department of Finance projection of only 10,000 students.

            The decline is driven by lower birth rates and a reduction in immigration, with the latter exacerbated by families fearing enforcement actions. Los Angeles County accounted for nearly half of the state's total loss, losing 32,953 students, largely due to a decrease in newcomer students within the LAUSD.

            Private schools saw a steeper drop of 6.6%, while homeschooling declined by 3.7%. The enrollment drop is causing budget deficits, leading to staff layoffs, program cuts, and potential school closures. Hispanic students experienced the largest numeric loss (48,064), while white students saw the largest percentage decline (2.68%). English learner enrollment fell by 8.2%, partly due to reclassification and partly due to out-migration.

            • reassess_blind an hour ago

              That's surprising. Surely there are still more than there were 30 years ago?

              • MLR 43 minutes ago

                From glancing at the numbers it looks pretty similar, but there's been a huge drop in births in California in the last 10-20 years so it's probably the last few years where that will be true.

                Peak birth year was 1990 after booming through the 80s, births started falling off a cliff after 2008 and last year there were about the same number of births as in 1980 despite the population increasing by 80%.

    • legitster 26 minutes ago

      $2 billion dollars is a pretty small piece of the $90 billion the state pays towards schools.

      The budget cuts are because enrollment is down.

    • dmitrygr 3 hours ago
      • thatfrenchguy 2 hours ago

        Compared to cost of living though?

      • idiotsecant 2 hours ago

        Your own link says CA spends less than UNESCO’s 15.0% standard.

        Also, you could frame this in a much more information dense way by making an active claim about something instead of just spamming a bunch of links.

        • dmix 2 hours ago

          A quick google search of the UNSECO target is "at least 15% of total public expenditure (or 4–6% of GDP)" and both the US (~5%) and California (~4-5% of gdp) already pass that criteria.

          • rayiner 2 hours ago

            The UNESCO target is calibrated for developing countries. Few developed countries spend that much on non-tertiary education: https://www.oecd.org/en/data/indicators/public-spending-on-e.... Canada spends about 3.3%, less than California.

            (I think your numbers include tertiary education. My numbers are K-12 only. I’m not sure which of those the UNESCO target is based on.)

          • _--__--__ 2 hours ago

            The confusion/disconnect between those two benchmarks suggests something about the size of CA's public expenditure...

        • rayiner 2 hours ago

          The UNESCO standard is meant for developing countries.

          In 2021, California spent about $121 billion on K-12, out of a GDP of $3.4 trillion, or about 3.5% of state GDP. That puts it above the OECD average of 3.3%, around the same as France at 3.5%. blob:https://www.oecd.org/702dcc03-0749-41b6-af41-112fd1af1bfb. (This is the parent page: https://www.oecd.org/en/data/indicators/public-spending-on-e.... You have to select non-tertiary education, which is basically what we call K-12.)

      • sgc 2 hours ago

        It is just a fact that California schools are laying off a large percentage of personnel and getting rid of many programs. Pink slips by the thousands have been sent out that will take effect in a couple months at the end of the school year. If you don't know that, you are not informed.

        Those links are completely irrelevant because they are out of date. Budget had temporarily increased due to the availability of COVID funds, and now there is a very harsh snap in the other direction. Shortfalls are directly linked to actions by the Trump administration, and their downstream impacts. Every state needs to step up and deal with it.

        Here is one example of how that is happening, it is a far more significant problem than just this: https://www.cde.ca.gov/nr/ne/yr25/yr25rel35.asp

  • pclowes 3 hours ago

    This is wild. A mistake of this magnitude should result in several positions becoming vacant and many politicians being ineligible for any future offices.

    If a government can’t budget accurately everything else they do is likely even less competent. Every number and statistic they report should be treated with suspicion. Without clear data who is to say they are doing anything helpful at all?

    • dlcarrier 2 hours ago

      The errors were all within the CalPERS pension fund. The pensions are guaranteed by the state, so the fund is notorious for a complete lack of fiduciary duty, and these types of errors track with the general quality of their operation.

      • wahern 2 hours ago

        Alternatively, since we're spit balling, the administrators and/or accounting staff decided to strategically error on the side of a shortfall because its politically impossible to get the state to fully fund the pension obligations or to stop effectively raiding it.

      • anon291 2 hours ago

        Recall that funds like this are one of the largest owners of the hedge funds that drive up property values for American homes via their reckless speculation. The state (well states really -- CA is not alone) desperately needs to make more than market returns to guarantee their unfunded pension liabilities.

  • nxobject 3 hours ago

    If you want a vivid illustration (from an adjacent state) about the impact of pessimistic fiscal projections: Oregon has an infamous "kicker" law that refunds income taxes collected in excess of projections (plus a 2% margin). The state faces the same budgetary challenges as California... but can't project too pessimistically lest it leave money off the table.

    • jaggederest 3 hours ago

      Oregon's kicker law is a textbook example of bad economic policy, sadly. It essentially means that in boom years the state can't accumulate any general funds for recessions, which is half of the point of a state-level political entity in the first place. Balanced budgets and pay as you go are fabulous over the medium term, but over the short term of a year or two during a disaster or recession, governmental spending is critical as a counterbalance to reduced investment and general employment income.

      • jerlam 2 hours ago

        California is also required to refund taxpayers if it accumulates too much revenue. The state's spending is capped at some limit set in 1979 with adjustments for inflation and population.

        https://calbudgetcenter.org/resources/qa-why-hitting-gann-li...

      • tantalor 2 hours ago

        Well maybe they should "project" a certain amount of revenue that goes to savings every year automatically, instead of waiting for a boom year windfall.

      • JumpCrisscross an hour ago

        > in boom years the state can't accumulate any general funds for recessions

        Genuine question: have states had the discipline not to raid these coffers in the boom years?

        The alternative is borrowing in downturns. That works because during recessions interest rates are low. The opposite problem then manifests, however, which is the state continuing to borrow through the recovery.

        Maybe instead of citing shortfalls and surpluses, such laws should cite unemployment and income growth.

      • Supermancho 2 hours ago

        > Oregon's kicker law is a textbook example of bad economic policy, sadly

        You must be talking about non-economic textbooks, otherwise this makes no sense.

        • lotsofpulp 2 hours ago

          Oregon has a biennial budget, so some Oregon employee predicts how much money Oregon will earn over the next 2 to 3 years (which is basically impossible to do), and then Oregon leaders have to come up with a spending plan equal to or less than that revenue estimate.

          However, Oregon's costs have no relation to the revenue that the state predicted it would get, so it is constrains the solution space when unforeseen costs or cost trends happen. For example, Oregon predicts a certain amount of revenue, but gets 3% more than the predicted revenue, but that is because prices for everything went up 3% more than expected, now Oregon has less money than it needs to pay its expenses (since it has to return any revenue which was 2% over the estimate).

          Oregon is the only jurisdiction I have ever heard of with this kind of strict refund law, and its rigidity seems to be the main issue, along with the 2 year forecast requirement (since forecasting even 1 year is hard enough).

  • hedgehog 2 hours ago

    The article doesn't really explain the overall budget, for scale it looks like in the 2025-2026 budget year CA planned to spend about $228B compared to $216B revenue ($227B in the previous year).

    https://ebudget.ca.gov/2025-26/pdf/Enacted/BudgetSummary/Sum...

  • legitster 28 minutes ago

    Correction: This is a correction to the forecast - not the budget.

    By the state's own admission, there could be as much as an $18 billion dollar budget deficit if the state economy fails to grow as projected. It could also be a smaller shortfall if the economy is even better than expected.

    Miscalculations are pretty common and this is why they are revised several times a year.

  • jjtheblunt 2 hours ago

    "Gov. Newsom in January projected the state would have to grapple with a $2.9 billion shortfall. The confirmed miscalculation means that shortfall could be much smaller."

    So, the title is just plain misleading.

    California is less in deficit than they earlier calculated.

  • IvyMike 3 hours ago
  • tyre 3 hours ago

    A little “bank error in your favor” sitchu. We love to see it.

  • seiferteric 2 hours ago

    Didn't something like this just happen last year (or year before) but in the opposite direction?

  • dogscatstrees an hour ago

    They should have used Claude Code for Excel.

  • cdrnsf 2 hours ago

    Oops! They're still far easier to deal with than any federal agency.

  • tonymet 2 hours ago

    it’s less than 1% of the budget, and the state keeps overspending. Don’t get too optimistic

  • whalesalad 2 hours ago

    2 billion surplus? that's good for about 150 linear feet of high speed rail track in the middle of Salinas.

  • boznz 2 hours ago

    Another indicator that the administration hasn't got a fucking clue what or where their (your) money goes.

  • testfoobar 2 hours ago

    Give it back?

  • SilentM68 an hour ago

    My Opinion:

    Anyone who thinks this is a glitch in the system, or an honest mistake, should shift their mindset and start thinking more like a detective and less like a politician.

    California has been steadily declining for years, now. Waste, mismanagement, fraud are commonplace. This needs to be investigated by impartial third parties that can't be bought and paid for whose commitment must be verified via polygraph. Those that are found guilty need to be prosecuted and jailed.

    Being that this is California, what will end up happening is that the politicians will end up investigating themselves and miraculously be found not liable.

    ******

    Unbiased-AI Deep Dive:

    https://archive.ph/jdyO4

  • mlmonkey 2 hours ago

    > California's legislative leaders have known for months but did not make the issue public.

    Why would they give up a chance to make more money from the people? The government never misses an opportunity to pad its coffers. Reminds me of the CA State Parks department, which squirreled away millions of dollars and then was crying about lack of funding and hence wanted to shut down some parks.

    • xp84 2 hours ago

      Fun fact: I recently vacationed in Hawaii and couldn’t help but notice, despite groceries costing about 2x, gas there is a dollar cheaper than at home in California. California just can’t get enough tax money.

      • verteu an hour ago

        The best comparison is probably "overall tax burden": https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/state/tax-burden-by-state...

        When you include all taxes (eg property tax), there's surprisingly little variation between states: For example, TX is 6th-lowest at 8.6% of income, while CA is 46th-lowest at 13.5% of income. Hawaii is 48th-lowest at 14.1%

      • reducesuffering an hour ago

        Not really a fact, more of a bad anecdote. Currently HI gas is just $0.17 cheaper than CA, and I see many CA gas stations at $5.09, just like HI. A decent chunk of that comes from strict CA low pollution refining, you know, to help you breath better...

        https://gasprices.aaa.com/state-gas-price-averages/