245 comments

  • kepano 2 hours ago

    I've been saying this since 2023

    > If your data is stored in a database that a company can freely read and access (i.e. not end-to-end encrypted), the company will eventually update their ToS so they can use your data for AI training — the incentives are too strong to resist

    https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37124188

    • random3 an hour ago

      The “do it first, apologize later” will be the general principle with anything. It’s going to be hard and futile to prove even if they don’t do it through ToS first. Amazon has one of the largest corporate training sets out there:)

    • mememememememo 2 hours ago

      Yes I think you are right. Even a super ethical company can be taken over. There may be exceptions but it is more luck. I work for a SP500 that absolutely won't dont this and locks down prod access so a rogue staff can't do it. But if Larry or Zuck or Bezos buys them out, who knows.

      • Forgeties79 2 minutes ago

        I worry about a post-Gabe valve for this reason.

      • miohtama an hour ago

        Microsoft would never do this

        (-:

    • ekjhgkejhgk 24 minutes ago

      You're right, of course, and I find it frustrating that people are so thick as to not see your claim as obvious.

      Stallman is always right.

      • itsdesmond 5 minutes ago

        Back in 2003 he was advocating for legalization of child sexual abuse material. In 2006 he said he was skeptical of the harm caused by “voluntary pedophilia”, a statement that presupposes that children can consent to sex with adults.

        So I dunno bout that.

      • jamiek88 9 minutes ago

        About technology.

        About communication with other humans he’s pretty much always wrong.

        Imagine we’d had a better communicator who wasn’t a gross toe nail picking troll fronting free software? It shouldn’t matter. Only the ideas should matter . But the reality is different.

        • itsdesmond a minute ago

          He argued against EU proposals for ISPs to filter CSAM on the basis of protecting free expression. Not always right about technology, either.

      • worik 15 minutes ago

        > Stallman is always right.

        Not really. Almost always right....

    • slowhadoken an hour ago

      I’m still concerned about MS using the code I write on my laptop to train AI. Tinfoil hat wearing Linux users are starting to make a lot of sense to me.

      • qaadika 37 minutes ago

        It's been interesting the past year or so watching myself turn more and more into one of the tin-foil wearing linux users. I'm not sure how it happened, but self-hosting became more and more alluring and hyperfocusing on taking as much data as I can offline became worth spending entire weekends on.

        I didn't become paranoid, everybody else didn't!

      • DougN7 an hour ago

        I thought that’s more what the CoPilot change is really about - not your repo, but all the code CoPilot read while it is offering helpful completions, etc - so literally the code on your laptop. I cancelled my account.

      • b112 an hour ago

        It's not tinfoil, it's aluminum foil. I.. I mean, I heard it's that.

    • moralestapia an hour ago

      Thank you for your service. We really need more "canaries in the mine" giving out early warnings of things that might not be evident on a first glance.

      Any takes on what 2029 will look like? (related to this topic, ofc)

      • chistev an hour ago

        Now this is sarcasm. Lol

        • cinntaile an hour ago

          It seems like you do need the smileys or the /s to understand when something is and isn't sarcasm.

    • hugodan an hour ago

      and it is not end-to-end encrypted if you don't own the keys, avoid bullshit

    • cj 2 hours ago

      Edit: Okay, sounds like you guys are pissed to the point where it seems like the pro tip here is to stop using GitHub.

      Pro tip: sign up for the business/enterprise version when reasonable in price.

      I do this with Google Workspace. You can also do it with GitHub.

      (Google doesn’t train on Workspace, Github doesn’t train on business customers, etc)

      • worble 2 hours ago

        Pro tip: You could instead spend that money to spin up a forgejo instance for as little as $2 a month https://www.pikapods.com/apps#development (not affiliated, just a happy customer)

        Please don't reward these companies with money.

        • hirako2000 an hour ago

          I did exactly that. Containerized it and Forgejo simply became a small instance part of the fleet. UI is much snappier then GitHub. And more importantly: zero outages.

        • encrypted_bird an hour ago

          Or, alternatively, self-host a gitea instance!

          • kriops 27 minutes ago

            No. Money-grab incoming. Use forgejo.

      • Lio 44 minutes ago

        An enterprise licence won't save you, Google, Microsoft, et al have happily been breaking copyright laws for years.

        If the publishing industry can't win a case against the AI firms then you don't stand a chance when you finally find out they've been training on your private data the whole time.

        They can tell you one thing and do the opposite and there's effectively nothing you can do about it. You'd be a fool to trust them.

      • thot_experiment 2 hours ago

        Probably don't reward extortion with money.

      • saghm an hour ago

        At the risk of stating the obvious, I don't think it makes sense to reward them with money for trying to pull a bait-and-switch on this.

      • groby_b an hour ago

        Github's enterprise version "starts at" $21.99/seat, and requires you to "contact sales".

        And I don't see any mention that that exempts you from being trained on. (Yes, the blog says you're still covered, but at that price I'd like to see a contract saying that)

      • margalabargala 2 hours ago

        > Google doesn’t train on Workspace, Github doesn’t train on business customers, etc

        ...yet

        • bilbo0s 2 hours ago

          This.

          The belief of business users that this will remain true is grounded more in hope than in cold, dispassionate, business based decision making.

          If it's not life or death, encrypt every byte of data you send to the cloud.

          If it is life or death, you should probably not be letting that data traverse the open internet in any form.

        • arcanemachiner an hour ago

          Or, they don't train on it, but who's to say they're not harvesting analytics which may or may or not code samples, prompt data, etc. Which are then laundered through some sort of anonymization pipeline, to the point where they can argue that it no longer qualifies as your data, and can be freely trained upon.

          Conspiratorial thinking? Sure. But if you've been around for a couple decades and seen the games these people play (and you aren't a complete sucker), then you'll at least be aware that there's at least slight possibility that these companies can get things from their customers that they (the customers) did not knowingly agree to.

          • schubidubiduba an hour ago

            Nothing conspirational about it. Getting data that their users or customers don't actually intend to give is the bread and butter of these companies. And they will do what they can to get it.

      • throwuxiytayq 2 hours ago

        It's not a pro tip if it only fucks you over slightly later. How's the weather in Stockholm?

  • martinwoodward 2 hours ago

    No we won’t. Details here https://github.blog/news-insights/company-news/updates-to-gi...

    For users of Free, Pro and Pro+ Copilot, if you don’t opt out then we will start collecting usage data of Copilot for use in model training.

    If you are a subscriber for Business or Pro we do not train on usage.

    The blog post covers more details but we do not train on private repo data at rest, just interaction data with Copilot. If you don’t use Copilot this will not affect you. However you can still opt out now if you wish and that preference will be retained if you decide to start using Copilot in the future.

    Hope that helps.

    • qaadika an hour ago

      > https://github.blog/news-insights/company-news/updates-to-gi...

      > Should you decide to participate in this program, the interaction data we may collect and leverage includes:

      > - Outputs accepted or modified by you

      > - Inputs sent to GitHub Copilot, including code snippets shown to the model

      > - Code context surrounding your cursor position

      > - Comments and documentation you write

      > - File names, repository structure, and navigation patterns

      > - Interactions with Copilot features (chat, inline suggestions, etc.)

      > - Your feedback on suggestions (thumbs up/down ratings)

      "should you decide to participate.."??? You didn't ask if I wanted to participate. You asked if I didn't.

      I didn't get to decide to participate. I had to decide not to. You made me do work to prevent my privacy from being violated.

      • vscode-rest an hour ago

        Do you use copilot?

        • qaadika 42 minutes ago

          First response: It doesn't matter if I use copilot right now. It matters if I will ever use copilot in the future. Opting-out is future-focused. What if I said "no, I don't use copilot, so I don't need to opt out", then a year from now start using copilot, completely forgetting about this whole debacle? That's the evil of opt-out. My inaction only benefits them, never me.

          Second response: Maybe? I press the little button to auto-generate commit titles and messages that showed up in my Github Desktop. Does that count?

          I'm asking sincerely. I don't "use Copilot" as in using it in VS Code or while writing code, so I'm honestly not sure if I am.

        • cobertos 9 minutes ago

          Do we get a choice? I did not ever explicitly enable it yet GitHub's web UI by default uses copilot to autofill my web-based edit commit messages. It also shows up on the home screen by default now.

          I'm pretty sure if you use the site you're using GitHub Copilot in some way, so your question becomes irrelevant.

    • jffry 2 hours ago

      It's unnecessarily splitting hairs.

      > interaction data—specifically inputs, outputs, code snippets, and associated context [...] will be used to train and improve our AI models

      So using Copilot in a private repo, where lots of that repo will be used as context for Copilot, means GitHub will be using your private repo as training data when they were not before.

      • pverheggen 24 minutes ago

        Isn't this pretty standard, using your interaction data for training and making it opt-out? Claude Code, Codex, Antigravity etc. all do the same. Private repo doesn't make a difference as they have a local copy to work from.

      • tptacek an hour ago

        No it isn't. Most people don't use Copilot, so this term change won't effect most people. You can reasonably be unhappy about it anyways (or unreasonably still be using Copilot in 2026), but it's still ultra-useful information for them to add to the discussion.

        • millisecond an hour ago

          Next step they'll rebrand search as "Copilot Search" or auto enable pull-request AI reviews (unless you hear about it and turn each off) and we'll all be "users".

          Boiling the frog with a Venn diagram.

        • _pdp_ 44 minutes ago

          Copilot, or "chat with Copilot" is a button that is available on every page right next to the search bar.

          I don't have to be a Copilot user to click on it.

          This change is malicious, and it doesn't only affect Copilot users. It affects everyone on the platform!

          • akerl_ 5 minutes ago

            Again, this collects usage data. If you click the button by accident and don’t interact, they get no data.

        • kelvinjps10 an hour ago

          It's automatically enabled for example the other day I did a commit directly on GitHub and AI generated commit popup it had to read the code to work

        • pistoriusp an hour ago

          I don't use copilot, but somehow was subscribed... I probably clicked something long ago and it just remained active.

          • tptacek an hour ago

            They're only training on interactions with Copilot, not with the full contents of repos that happen to be subscribed to Copilot.

          • input_sh 44 minutes ago

            They "gift you" a free standard plan if you have above a certain (non-transparent) level of stars, I don't think you can even disable your "subscription" if you get it for free.

        • themafia an hour ago

          > Most people don't use Copilot

          So why do any of this at all? You're putting a large part of your customer base on edge in order to improve a service that "most people don't use." The erosion of trust this brings doesn't seem like a worthwhile or prudent sacrifice.

          • tptacek an hour ago

            You're asking me to explain Microsoft AI strategy? Your guess is as good as mine.

        • srik an hour ago

          Make it opt-in then.

    • munk-a 2 hours ago

      The initial title and your reply are both too broad to be fully accurate. By April 24th Github will train on private repos (assuming a flag isn't set) but this change is limited to just non-Business/Pro users. So a number of private repos will be effected but it won't automatically affect all private repos (so my panic check on our corporate account wasn't necessary yet).

      I am not certain if you're a spokesperson for github - but it's good to be careful in your language. Instead of "No we won't" a lead like "That isn't entirely accurate" would be more suitable. In the end both the original post title and your reply have ended up being misleading.

      • tadfisher an hour ago

        > By April 24th Github will train on private repos

        This statement itself is misleading. Also, GitHub probably should have seen this coming.

        They are not doing what I initially thought, which is slurping up your private repo, wholesale, into its training set. You don't have to opt out of anything to prevent that.

        They are slurping any context and input containing code from your private repo which is provided to them as part of using Copilot.

        So, in addition to the opt-out setting, there is an even easier way to avoid providing them your private repository data to train AI models, and that's by continuing to not use Copilot.

    • andoando 2 hours ago

      Thats still pretty bad. Its no longer private if all your code goes through LLM training set and is resurfable to everyone publicly.

      Why would I ever use copilot on any code Id want to be kept private? Labling it a private repo and having a tiny clause in the TOS saying we can take your code and show it to everybody is just an upright lie

      • NewsaHackO an hour ago

        I mean, you shouldn't send data to any SaaS LLM for code you want to be private, unless you have had them sign some sort of contract saying they will not train on your use. In fact, it is probably never a good idea to send anything you want to be private off premises unencrypted.

    • layer8 an hour ago

      In the EU, opt-out is not a legally valid way to obtain the necessary consent. How do you plan to handle this?

      • booi 37 minutes ago

        probably by paying the fine and doing it anyway

      • x0x0 36 minutes ago

        For personal data. I don't believe you can reasonably claim code is personal data any more than a hammer is your personal data.

        • layer8 22 minutes ago

          Every Git commit is likely to contain personal data, in the form of the author’s name and email address usually present in a commit’s metadata. Furthermore, unless GitHub is prohibiting users from submitting personal data via their ToS (which, given the above, would be impractical), the only thing that matters is whether the data in fact contains personal data or not. GitHub cannot just assume that it doesn’t. And processing that data for new purposes requires user consent.

          • fph 3 minutes ago

            By that logic, you can't use any user input to train an LLM, because what if they decide to write their own name.

        • johndough 16 minutes ago

          Code often contains personal data. Here are over 400 files on GitHub with email addresses:

          https://grep.app/search?regexp=true&q=%5Ba-z%5D%7B8%2C%7D%5C...

          For example, license files often contain names and many package managers require a contact person.

          When this goes to court, GitHub will probably make the excuse that they somehow did not know that people upload personal data, but the fact that this happens so often that they had to make a secret scanner to stop people from uploading their private keys will prove them as liars.

    • saghm an hour ago

      Yes, you will. This is what the setting says on my account when I clicked the link:

      > model training

      > Allow GitHub to collect and use my Inputs, Outputs, and associated context to train and improve AI models. Read more in the Privacy Statement

      Are you seriously trying to claim that the code isn't input, output, or associated context of Copilot operating on a private repo? What term do you think better applies to the code that's being read as input, used as context, and potentially produced as output?

      • ziml77 an hour ago

        I don't like that they are training on any interactions with Copilot by default but training on something that you've put through Copilot yourself is much different than them just shoving all the private repos currently on Github into the training data.

      • Jolter an hour ago

        If you are not willing to migrate out of GitHub, what you can do is to avoid using Copilot on your private repository.

        • saghm an hour ago

          I don't use Copilot, and I don't have anything I particularly care about in private repos on my account on Github. My reaction here is entirely based on principles, not how I'm going to be personally affected.

    • wewtyflakes an hour ago

      If Copilot later adds a feature like "Scan your repo for vulnerabilities using Copilot <opt-out>", then that would both fit your criteria, and the baiting outrage of the original poster, in one swoop! Of course, Microsoft would _never_ do that, right?

    • grepfru_it 2 hours ago

      Back in my day someone would post a HN article to the internal slack in order to sway conversation in their favor. Glad to see its still happening! :D

    • edelbitter an hour ago

      > If you don’t use Copilot this will not affect you.

      How does this work for a private repository with access granted to additional contributors? Which setting is consulted then?

    • ClikeX 37 minutes ago

      How do you handle accounts that have copilot managed by an organisation? I've seen several cases where people cannot opt out their account because of the org connection (the option just isn't there in the settings). What happens to their account the moment they leave that org?

    • languid-photic an hour ago

      Appreciate the clarification. But, it's still not great.

      To the PM behind this - developers are sensitive to this kind of thing. Just make it opt-in instead?

    • SirensOfTitan 2 hours ago

      Right, but it shouldn't be opt-out only to begin with. It's a dishonest pattern that relies on people not noticing. Honest use of data is a "Caesar's wife must be above suspicion" moment for me -- if this is how you're acting when engaging with customers explicitly, I don't trust you to resist the temptation to tap into my data privately. AI companies already have trained their models illegally against the intellectual property of all of humanity with little consent along the way.

      Honestly, if you work at GitHub, maybe you should focus on your uptime -- it's awful.

    • dataflow an hour ago

      Say someone has a very sensitive secret (say, a Bitcoin private key) in their free private Github repo, and uses Copilot on that repo and touches the secret with it. Would you be willing to assure here that toggling that setting would not affect the likelihood of that secret leaking, and that that likelihood is also unaffected by whether the account is Business or Free?

    • mrdependable an hour ago

      I think the problem is more with using PRIVATE repos. My letters are also private and I would be pretty pissed if the mail carrier was reading them. Why does GitHub think it has the right to do this?

    • _pdp_ an hour ago

      So you will train on data collected from free users working on GPL and copyrighted projects?

      • DougN7 an hour ago

        And on users that don’t even use github, other than the required account to use CoPilot in Visual Studio.

        • _pdp_ 29 minutes ago

          Exactly.

          This affects anyone using VS Code or Copilot with proprietary data, including all the users automating workflows through the Copilot SDK and the like. A perfect storm.

          Did anyone from GitHub's legal team actually authorise this, or did they use Copilot to sign off on it?

    • johndough 25 minutes ago

      Under GDPR, opt-out is not considered informed consent, and repositories can contain personally identifiable information, which fall under GDPR. Do you think differently, or do you think ignoring the law will be worth it?

    • ziml77 an hour ago

      Thanks for the clarification. The OP here made me think I missed something in both the blog post about the change and in the available settings.

    • gortok an hour ago

      This is a distinction without a difference, according to the text of that enable/disable dialog,

      > Allow GitHub to use my data for AI model training: Allow GitHub to collect and use my Inputs, Outputs, and associated context to train and improve AI models. Read more in the Privacy Statement.

      “Associated Context” is the repo. If I use copilot, I’m giving it access to my repo.

      I don’t know in all the ways copilot can be triggered, and I’m not certain that I could stop it from being triggered, given Microsoft’s past behaviors in slapping Copilot on everything that exists.

    • buildbot 16 minutes ago

      >Hope that helps

      Honestly, what the fuck? This changes was already pretty bad but this being the apparent corporate response is insane.

      Done with Github and Microsoft after this. Just disgusting how little you care for users, ethics, or morals.

    • elAhmo 29 minutes ago

      Defaulting to opt-in is a malicious move, no matter how you present things.

    • daveguy an hour ago

      Nice try. If you're training on "inputs" to Copilot then you are training on the private repos.

      This suspect denial is why I will get my clients moved off of github.

    • mrits 2 hours ago

      Thanks for confirming you train on our data

    • pesus an hour ago

      Why not get user consent first?

    • Jabrov an hour ago

      Can't you just make it opt-in?

      No? Because no one would opt-in, you say?

      Wow. It's almost like this is a user-hostile feature that breaks the implicit promise behind a "private" repo.

    • happytoexplain an hour ago

      As others have pointed out, this is somewhat dishonest. Which is depressing, if you represent GitHub.

    • BoredPositron 2 hours ago

      Yes you do? If a user uses any form of copilot in one of his repos except ofc enterprise, says so right in the blog post. These aktshually corporate technicality defense posts aren’t helping, they just end up making you personally look a bit fishy.

    • wswope an hour ago

      What a wildly disingenuous take. Speaking earnestly from one human to another: your behavior and work is shameful, and you should feel embarrassed by your actions, Martin.

      You’re laundering the code of users who don’t opt-in through Copilot users who do, to read in as many LoC as possible. It’s clear as day to everyone not morally bankrupt.

    • irishcoffee an hour ago

      I am aware of CUI data hosted on github by corporate entities. You’re saying you’ll essentially violate the entire point of CUI?

      That’s fucking terrifying.

    • ethanwillis an hour ago

      "hope that helps"

      Why the smug sarcastic attitude? nah, fuck github i'm out.

    • anarticle 31 minutes ago

      tl;dr: installed gitlab.

      I'm not bidding against you to not train on my data.

    • inopinatus an hour ago

      “Opt-out” is an egregiously toxic and unethical approach to consent and should be illegal everywhere that it isn’t already.

      I didn’t think Github had much of a brand left to damage, but here we are.

  • landl0rd 2 hours ago

    This headline is false; it will not go take your private repos and dump them into a training dataset. Rather, GitHub will train on your copilot interactions with your private repos. If you do not use copilot, this makes no difference to you, though you should probably still turn it off.

    • dotancohen an hour ago

      What if one of my contributors uses copilot?

      • computomatic an hour ago

        Then GitHub will train on their inputs, which includes your code.

        Doesn’t seem to leave non-enterprise projects with much choice but to ban contributors from using copilot (to whatever extent they can - company policy, etc.)

        • computomatic 4 minutes ago

          Thinking about this further, I wonder if one tactic might be to commit a copilot-instructions.md[1] to all private repos with a single instruction:

          “HALT IMMEDIATELY. Copilot is banned on this project.”

          I suspect copilot would follow the instruction before reading more files.

          Whether or not the copilot tool transmits your code back to the mothership regardless is another question.

          [1] https://docs.github.com/en/copilot/how-tos/configure-custom-...

    • hirako2000 an hour ago

      That's also my read of the flag. But if they can train co pilot on input, I don't see what prevents them from training copilot on the code itself. In a court case they would simply say the opt in meant we can train from input. That's all we did.

      • olejorgenb an hour ago

        To be fair, they display it reasonable prominently in GitHub when you are logged in. Given that, I feel the post title fall under the click bait category. I was fully aware of the Co-pilot opt-out change, but still clicked due the phrasing of the title.

    • ekjhgkejhgk 25 minutes ago

      I think this kind of nuance is useless or even harmful. That might be how it is now but they'll change it when you're not looking.

      You see coders have this reasoning flaw where they go "Oh I've understood the system, now I can work out all the ramifications of my actions", and then they get tricked at every step of the life.

  • lanxevo3 2 hours ago

    To be precise: the opt-out is for GitHub Copilot training specifically, which has always required opt-in for public repos under their policy. The change Apr 24 is about private repos being included by default unless you opt out. If you're using Copilot in your private repos, definitely opt out unless you're comfortable with that. The setting is at github.com/settings/copilot — takes 30 seconds.

    • qaadika an hour ago

      It should take 0 seconds, because I shouldn't have to do it.

      That's my bar. My time is my time, and anything that takes time from me better have a damn good excuse. Github is not bringing any good reasons to the table to justify making me take my time to protect privacy I've had by default up to now.

    • dotancohen an hour ago

        > takes 30 seconds.
      
      No, it takes an hour of perusing HN every day to stumble upon this. That's 20 hours per month, 240 hours per year, shall I bill it to GitHub or to Microsoft directly?

      Corrupting Steinmetz' quip to Ford: it's 30 seconds to flip the switch, 240 hours to know that a switch needs to be flipped.

    • martinwoodward 2 hours ago

      It wasn’t previously opt-in.

      Previously we didn’t do any training on usage. However as other products have come into the market they do train on usage. We’ve been training on our internal usage for just over a year and have seen some major improvements. For details see of the types of improvements we’ve seen from training on our internal usage check out this article: https://github.blog/news-insights/product-news/copilot-new-e...

      • homebrewer an hour ago

        You can always ask your parent company to train on their usage. I hear they have incredibly massive codebases: Windows, Office, MSSQL, which stay out of training data for some reason.

        I thought neural nets never repeat the training data verbatim, and copyright does not pass through them, so what's the problem?

        • NewsaHackO an hour ago

          How do you know that isn't already the case?

        • IcyWindows an hour ago

          Who said they don't?

      • mentalgear 41 minutes ago

        This seems reasonable, maybe too much so.

        > If they want to incentivise people to contribute their sources and copilot sessions, they could easily make it opt-in on a per-repository basis and provide some incentive, like an increased token quota.

    • ClikeX 32 minutes ago

      The setting isn't even visible to everyone. If you're currently in an org that manages copilot business, it's gone. I imagine it instantly opts you back in when you leave an org.

  • Esophagus4 5 minutes ago

    There’s a lot of furor in this thread, but people felt the same way when Google Street View came out. Eventually they worked through most of the thorny bits and people use Street View now.

    I suspect MSFT is in a similar spot. If they don’t train on more data, they’ll be left behind by Anthropic/OAI. If they do, they’ll annoy a few diehards for a while, they’ll work through the kinks, then everyone will get used to it.

    • computomatic a minute ago

      That comparison doesn’t hold at all. This would be equivalent to Google publishing photos of inside your home.

      Or, perhaps more directly, training their image-gen models on your private Google Photos.

  • uberman 2 hours ago

    If even one person in a repo does not disable this will copilot have full access to the repo? How can I determine if other members of my team have turned this off or not?

    • hirako2000 an hour ago

      The same way you can't determine whether a team member pulling the repo dumped the code into a prompt.

      It's convenient for MS to make this opt in by default for sure.

      • elAhmo 28 minutes ago

        It’s not convenient, it is a deliberate decision.

  • munk-a an hour ago

    The only setting I'm seeing is on a per-user basis. Does anyone know how to blanket disable training on an organizational basis?

    Is there any information about how much information from an organization managed repo may be trained on if an individual user has this flag enabled? Will one leaky account cause all of our source code to be considered fair game?

  • hedayet 2 hours ago

    To Github's credit, they have been showing a banner consistently. To my discredit - I never bothered to read that banner until I saw this HN headline

    • tomwheeler 42 minutes ago

      And even if you read the banner on the site, the email they sent, and the announcement itself, you would not see instructions that mention the specific thing(s) you must change in order to opt out.

      Sure, you can poke around in the settings and find one that you believe opts you out, but in lieu of clear and explicit instructions from GitHub, you'll have no way to find out. Only the possibility of finding out later that you guessed wrong.

    • nottorp an hour ago

      How does that help if you don't go to the github site but just use git from the command line?

      • lkbm an hour ago

        They also sent an email.

        • nottorp an hour ago

          Did they? Not to me, and I have a 'review this new sign in' from 4 days ago so them emailing me works.

    • jmward01 2 hours ago

      I've never seen the banner. Where does this show up?

      • arcanemachiner an hour ago

        It's been on top of the web UI for 2 or 3 days now.

        You might have closed it...

        Just go to your account settings and find the opt-out option.

      • roegerle an hour ago

        right up top. I'm not sure how anyone could miss it.

        • dotancohen an hour ago

            $ git pull
            $ vim foo.rs
            $ git commit
            $ git push
          
          That's how.
          • jmward01 39 minutes ago

            exactly this. I rarely need to go to the site.

      • daveguy an hour ago

        Probably have to have adblockers turned off.

    • _pdp_ an hour ago

      I have never seen any app reset/loose setting before.

      • lkbm an hour ago

        What are you referring to? I set this to "Disabled" months/years ago and it's retained the disabled setting.

        • _pdp_ 41 minutes ago

          So? You guarantee that this setting is durable and will never revert? Or you guarantee that no client-side bug on that page will not override the setting with null value when you click save on something else? Please.

  • maplethorpe 23 minutes ago

    What's the best way to poison my repos to sabotage LLM training? Asking for a friend.

  • parsimo2010 2 hours ago

    Jokes on them, my private repos are total dog dookie. If nobody but me can see the code then I don't have to worry about style, structure, comments, or any other best practices.

    You don't want an LLM trained on my private repos. Trust me.

    • aduwah 2 hours ago

      I will join the club. +1 for ruining M$ AI with my garbage code

    • forinti 2 hours ago

      Poisoning LLMs is an interesting path of resistance.

  • SunshineTheCat 2 hours ago

    RIP all the people who have been paying Github for years and never happen to see the notice.

    • tedivm 2 hours ago

      I think opt out is stupid, but the notice is on every page of github using their banner display right now. They've also blasted out emails.

      • malfist an hour ago

        And how many people who use git on github go to the website? I only do when my token has expired and I need to grab a new one to push again. Which is every 90 days. Github.com is mostly invisible infrastructure to me.

      • flykespice 2 hours ago

        At least they are being very upfront with it (I guess?), most companies just slickly add the clause on their routinely TOS update.

        • SirensOfTitan 2 hours ago

          If they were being honest they would ask explicitly for permission instead of advertising opt-out. Now you might ask: who will explicitly give Microsoft permission to train on their private works? No one will -- and that's the point: this is a form of theft.

  • w10-1 an hour ago

    https://github.com/settings/copilot/features

    The feature to opt out is at the bottom under privacy: "Allow GitHub to use my data for AI model training"

    TIL: you cannot opt out of a copilot-pro subscription. How is it a subscription if I can't cancel?

    (Honestly, who has time to evade all these traps? Or to migrate 150+ repo's on 6+ machines...)

  • mxtbccagmailcom 2 hours ago

    Time to put adversarial code into GitHub to pollute the training set?

  • sedatk an hour ago

    I have an individual GitHub Copilot Pro subscription and also am a member of an Enterprise account that has one of its GitHub Copilot Business seats assigned to me. The opt-out setting doesn't appear on my individual profile anymore. However, I want to be able to use individual GitHub Copilot subscription for my individual work, and it seems like I can't do it anymore as Enterprise has taken over all my preferences. What a mess.

  • GMoromisato an hour ago

    I'm sure this is just me, but I don't mind if AI trains on my public or private repos. I suspect my imagination is just not good enough to come up with downsides.

    So far it's been a benefit because coding agents seems to understand my code and can follow my style.

    I don't store client data (much less credentials) in my repos (public or private) so I'm not worried about data leaks. And I don't expect any of my clients to decide to replace me and vibe code their way to a solution.

    I do worry (slightly) about large company competitors using AI to lower their prices and compete with me, but that's going to happen regardless of whether anyone trains on my code. And my own increases in efficiency due to AI have made up for that.

  • _pdp_ an hour ago

    Rather than defending this absurd decision, GitHub could instantly win back trust by admitting they f*** up and reversing it entirely.

    If they want to incentivise people to contribute their sources and copilot sessions, they could easily make it opt-in on a per-repository basis and provide some incentive, like an increased token quota.

    This is not hard.

  • prmoustache an hour ago

    While I understand the network effect of github for public project, I don't really understand why one would want to use it for private repos.

    There are tons of git providers including free ones that include full gitlab/gitea/forgejo to get similar features to github and there is nothing more easy to self host or host on a vps with near zero maintenance.

    • w10-1 an hour ago

      Sorry, which ones support 2-GB private repositories and are supported by package managers?

  • jacamera an hour ago

    Lots of hair splitting in the comments. The service is so unreliable at this point that I don’t trust them to not train on private repos even accidentally. You’re one vibe-coded PR away from having all your data scooped up regardless of any policy or intention.

  • kristianp 2 hours ago

    What's a good alternative for free private repos?

    • eblume 2 hours ago

      I've recently started hosting my own forgejo instance. It works so well! Free tailscale for connectivity. I expose mine over fly.io proxy, also free, but not to be done without caution.

    • Supermancho 2 hours ago

      Gitlab?

      Microsoft services are tech debt. I moved the moment they were acquired and never regretted it.

      • nottorp an hour ago

        I opened gitlab.com and it starts with

        "Finally, AI for the entire software lifecycle."

        Not very trust inspiring, that.

        Can I even have git hosting without anything else being crammed down my throat, or it's just like Microsoft?

    • mrweasel 2 hours ago

      It's a fair question, but if you need private repos, I think you need to start considering a paid option, or self-host.

      If it's really important to you that the repo is private, I'd self-host.

    • pyjarrett an hour ago

      It doesn't take much power or time to run your own local git server. My first one which lasted years was parts I mangled together from old computers from garage sales.

      There's instructions on running a Git server in the git book: https://git-scm.com/book/en/v2/Git-on-the-Server-The-Protoco...

    • werdnapk an hour ago

      I've been using gitosis to manage private repos for almost 2 decades now. It's extremely easy to host your own repositories.

      I just looked up gitosis on github though and it was last updated 12 years ago.... still works for me though.

      Overall, hosting your own repos is very easy.

    • conductr 2 hours ago

      Just spitballing, don’t use these tools myself, but isn’t this something that should be encrypted to really prevent them from training? I personally don’t trust anyone with my data when they pivot to building AI products yet claim my data wasn’t a part of that strategy. It’s too easy to hide/lie.

      But it always seemed to me that the UI should run locally with encryption keys that are shared and the service just manages encrypted blobs of diffs that can roll from version to version of encrypted data and that’s about it. Granted I probably don’t know the full workflow, i typically am a single dev on simple projects where I don’t need 99% of the overhead these introduce.

    • sebastiennight 2 hours ago

      GitLab would be a good bet here. We started on their free tier and used that for a couple of years, I was very happy with it. Not sure how the tiers might have evolved since.

      And according to their PM and privacy policy, they're not training their models on your code[0].

      [0]: https://forum.gitlab.com/t/can-i-opt-out-from-my-code-being-...

    • wuschel an hour ago

      Sourcehut comes to my mind: https://sourcehut.org/

    • JonChesterfield an hour ago

      Any computer you have ssh access to.

    • bonestamp2 2 hours ago

      BitBucket.org (Atlassian)

    • Imustaskforhelp 2 hours ago

      I would've recommended codeberg but codeberg isn't the finest to be recommended for free private repos.

      I definitely feel like more can be done within this space and that there is space for more competitors (even forgejo instances for that matter)

    • bigstrat2003 an hour ago

      I use Fossil for mine. Dead easy to set up, and while the workflow might not be great for public contributions like Github is, that doesn't matter on something where I'm the only user.

    • stephenr 2 hours ago

      I've seen https://codefloe.com mentioned, can't say I've used it myself yet though.

  • jmward01 2 hours ago

    They just lost my repos. I can not believe they snuck this in. My level of anger right now is far higher that I ever wanted to feel. I went to API access for anthropic, paying more in the process, to avoid them training on my code. And GH just -adds- this, without telling me? Without a prompt. They are dead to me.

    • ares623 an hour ago

      make sure you opt-out anyway before deleting your account. they'll probably train on some archived version if it sees your profile didn't opt-out at some point.

      • gverrilla an hour ago

        honest question: is there any realistic mechanism that will make them accountable if let's say they just train on 100% of repos without regards to opt-ins? I operate under the premise these tech companies can do whatever they want and there's very little oversight.

  • JonChesterfield an hour ago

    Don't give your code to Microsoft if you don't want them to have your code.

    This setting will make no difference to whether your code is fed into their training set. "Oops we accidentally ignored the private flag years ago and didn't realise, we are very sorry, we were trying to not do that".

  • Uhhrrr 22 minutes ago

    Put an ORM in your private repo which randomly 1% of the time calls DROP TABLE.

  • ljm 3 minutes ago

    Never have I seen a company try so damn hard to make something a thing than Microsoft and Copilot.

    And it is absolute dogshit.

  • endofreach an hour ago

    How did people forget that github was purchased by that one company?

  • mrled an hour ago

    I'm curious about specific consequences of this. I tend to think the importance of code secrecy has always been exaggerated (there are specific exceptions like hedge fund strategies and malware), even more so now in this post-Claude world. Does anyone have specific things they're trying to avoid by opting out of this?

    • jawilson2 an hour ago

      Algorithms and models for a proprietary trading system? My personal notes? The latex text of my phd thesis?

      I will go screaming and kicking and fighting into this dystopian nightmare post-privacy shithole world that so many people seem fine with. If I have to move off of every service or technology to maintain some semblance of privacy so be it.

      • mrled 26 minutes ago

        Well, mostly I was thinking about code, and aside from the specific exceptions of trading algorithms (which I was trying to get at when I said hedge fund strategies), and now PhD theses (good point, at least if you're talking pre-publication), I'm still having trouble understanding the threat model even if AI did train on most proprietary, private business code. Can AI training on a CRUD app's code damage a business?

        And I have the same question about private notes, or even a diary. Can an AI training on a bunch of personal stuff damage the person that wrote it?

        Do you really keep trading algorithms on github?

  • shamelessdev 30 minutes ago

    This is the exact reason I vibe coded “artifact”.

    Not for commercial success, just wanted a git and github like experience for my new game project.

    Then I started getting into features specific to game dev like moving away from LFS and properly diffing binaries.

    paganartifact.com/benny/artifact

    Mirror: GitHub bennyschmidt/artifact

  • bsza an hour ago

    I've been encrypting my private git repos for a while because I had suspected they were going to do something like this.

    https://github.com/flolu/git-gcrypt

    It's very easy to set up and integrates nicely into git. Obviously only works if you don't need Actions or anything that requires Github to know what's in your repo (duh).

  • bolangi an hour ago

    Hah, github can have my crap code. Anyone trained on it will be in for a world of hurt :-)

  • wilsonjholmes an hour ago

    At least they are finally being honest about the direction of the business. I have thought for a long while that they were already doing this and just not telling anyone...

  • piekvorst 19 minutes ago

    Personally, I don’t mind. Train however you want.

  • bonestamp2 2 hours ago

    Thanks for the heads up, I assumed they had already done this with my data.

    • seanw444 an hour ago

      Probably did. Now comes the legal ass-covering.

  • yonatan8070 2 hours ago

    How do I opt out of this for my own private repos? I don't see anything related to this as I've got a ton of settings for Copilot itself (I have access to Copilot through my work org)

    • jamie_ca 2 hours ago

      https://github.com/settings/copilot/features, it's near the bottom "Allow GitHub to use my data for AI model training"

    • forthac 2 hours ago

      I believe it is under:

      Settings->Copilot->Features->Privacy=>[ Allow GitHub to use my data for AI model training

      Allow GitHub to collect and use my Inputs, Outputs, and associated context to train and improve AI models. Read more in the Privacy Statement. ]

    • hedayet 2 hours ago

      Under privacy.

      > Allow GitHub to use my data for AI model training

  • VladVladikoff 31 minutes ago

    The most shocking part of this news to me is that they aren’t doing this already.

  • rrgok 2 hours ago

    I'm gonna put a license fee on all my repos. 10% of revenue if my private repos have been used for AI training. 5% on all my other repos.

  • kace91 an hour ago

    How's the codeberg experience nowadays? I think it's finally time to switch for me.

  • hilti an hour ago

    Oh - they didn't train silently already?! ;-) Going to move my repositories then next week.

  • rakel_rakel 2 hours ago

    I'm looking forward to the class action lawsuit, even if only to establish a precedent!

    I don't have much hope, but I wish that ignoring software licensing and attribution at scale becomes harder than it currently seems.

    • rrgok an hour ago

      They would've done the math. Even with a class action they will come up positive. It just another bill for them.

  • hexage1814 an hour ago

    If you opt out... they will also train on your private repos.

  • sethops1 2 hours ago

    When Louis Rossmann started describing tech leadership as having a "rapist mentality" I brushed him off as being sensationalist. But actions like this make me think more and more he's right. The product managers pushing for changes like this are despicable scum.

    • doubled112 2 hours ago

      Even the way modern software phrases questions is rapey.

      Imagine a man asking a woman “want to have sex? Or maybe later?” out of the blue, then asking her again every 3 days until she says “yes”

      • chuckadams 2 hours ago

        Something like "tea and consent": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZwvrxVavnQ

        Yeah, it ain't sex, but it does still come down to basic respect.

        • peacebeard an hour ago

          "Unconscious people don't want tea." is a great line.

      • ChadNauseam 2 hours ago

        The situation you describe has dynamics that don't apply when your windows laptop is trying to get you to install an update. A woman can't have 100% confidence that saying no won't trigger a man into rage, so just the question being asked at all is already a bit unpleasant. WinRAR trying to get me to buy a license is not as offensive because I know it won't beat me up for saying no.

        • doubled112 an hour ago

          Of course. Claiming this is a 1:1 would be wrong.

          However, do you think people accept Microsoft backup because they want a backup?

          Or do you think they click yes because it makes the popup go away for good?

          Wearing me down until I say yes isn’t the same as just yes.

          It’s the same dark pattern for the 10-11 upgrade. My father in law managed to upgrade by accident because it kept popping up. He didn’t really make an informed choice for himself. One day he just couldn’t figure out why everything was different.

    • kingstnap 2 hours ago

      There is this distinct lack of giving a shit about the user that you see coming through in a lot of big tech nowadays.

      Take this extremely simple example about antenna pod. I can change the order and what buttons show up in the app nav bar. For example I can remove the "home" button or put other things there instead like playback history.

      This is a small minor point of the bigger picture. Yet there is this distinct sense in which when using that app I don't feel like I'm beholden to some chain of management in some company deciding they get to decide what I get to do.

      Like its almost unthinkable that the YouTube app let you remove shorts or reorder the navigation bar and decide what you wanted to have there.

  • frizlab an hour ago

    Is there a way to disable training on repositories that are in organizations?

  • pokot0 36 minutes ago

    while I agree, I understood this is only when you use copilot? if not, their communication is very misleading

  • totierne2 an hour ago

    There is always other peoples ftp servers as Linus used to say.

  • maxloh 2 hours ago

    Context: https://github.com/orgs/community/discussions/188488

    TLDR: As long as you aren't using Copilot, your code should be safe (according to GitHub).

      What data are you collecting?
    
      When an individual user has this setting enabled, the interaction data we may collect includes:
    
      - Outputs accepted or modified by the user
      - Inputs sent to GitHub Copilot, including code snippets shown to the model
      - Code context surrounding the user’s cursor position
      - Comment and documentation that the user wrote
      - File names, repository structure, and navigation patterns
      - Interactions with Copilot features including Chat and inline suggestions
  • jollyllama 2 hours ago

    It's not clear to me what happens to personal repos if you're getting Copilot for work, or where to disable it there.

    • djsavvy 2 hours ago

      yeah, how can I view the settings on my own personal account if my employer is managing the copilot settings?

  • jambutters 2 hours ago

    Where does it say it will train on private? This seems like a security nightmare if it trains on hardcoded keys

    • chistev an hour ago

      Having hardcoded keys is a security nightmare regardless.

  • jokoon 2 hours ago

    weren't they already using repos for training?

  • dalemhurley 2 hours ago

    At least they are giving you the option to opt out, many other providers just trained on the source code.

  • woodylondon an hour ago

    jokes on them - all the code in all my repos are written by AI :)

  • tartoran an hour ago

    If you opt out Github will probably still train on your private repo. Just migrate.

  • gafferongames 20 minutes ago

    If you guys didn't already realize that Microsoft was a garbage company in the 90s I really don't know what to say...

  • mondainx 2 hours ago

    Get ready for some dope code... ;)

  • Sohcahtoa82 2 hours ago

    I wonder how effective it would be to sabotage the training by publishing deliberately bad code. A FizzBuzz with O(n^2) complexity. A function named "quicksort" that actually implements bogosort. A "filter_xss" function that's a no-op or just does something else entirely.

    The possibilities are endless. I thought of this after remembering seeing a post a couple months ago about how it doesn't take a significant amount of bad data to poison an LLM's training.

    • munk-a 2 hours ago

      Probably extremely ineffective, it's an issue of scale and unless you really automate the terrible code generation and somehow manage to make it distinct enough in style that it isn't easy to detect and eliminate wholesale then you just won't have the volume to significantly impact the result set.

      I'm absolutely sure that there are state actors with gigantic budgets that are putting a lot of effort into similar attacks, though.

  • mxtbccagmailcom 2 hours ago

    Time to place some adversarial code into GitHub to pollute training set?

  • leej111 25 minutes ago

    Based

  • yakbarber an hour ago

    train on my private code? jokes on them

  • livinglist 2 hours ago

    Thanks for posting this, I was never made aware of this by GitHub..

    • lkbm an hour ago

      If you use Github, you should have an email from ~2 days ago with the subject "Important Update to GitHub Copilot Interaction Data Usage Policy". Easy to skip over assuming it's just one of a million private policy update emails.

      If you don't use Github Copilot, this shouldn't effect you, and may be why you got no email. The current headline is fairly misleading--it's about Copilot usage, not private repos per se.

      • livinglist an hour ago

        I see, thanks for clarification!

  • i7l 2 hours ago

    Thanks for flagging this!

    • layer8 an hour ago

      Note that “flagging” has a specific meaning on HN.

      • i7l an hour ago

        10-4.

        I meant it in the sense of "bringing it to our collective attention."

  • daft_pink 2 hours ago

    is there an easy way to shift all your repos to gitlab or to private if you don’t use ci/etc?

  • harikb 2 hours ago

    The UI options are also shady af. The setting reads

    Enabled - "You will have access to this feature" as help text. Disabled - "You will not have access to this feature".

    WTF does that mean?

    • gs17 an hour ago

      I saw that too, it feels like it's worded to make it sound like it's mandatory for Copilot. Based on their blog post the "feature" is them training on your data.

  • contingencies 2 hours ago

    Thank you.

  • nitrogen99 34 minutes ago

    So? It’s not like some human is spying on your private emails or chats. This is just code. Relax.

  • jpcrs an hour ago

    Good luck to them, my private repos are probably some of the worst code humanity has produced.

  • uwagar 35 minutes ago

    why all u programmers cant make ur own website and host ur own git servers?

  • AndrewKemendo an hour ago

    I started self hosting my own git on a digital ocean droplet with Gitea (1). It’s been unbelievably fantastic and trivially easy to manage experience and I can make them public and invite contrib ans do integrations … I see zero downsides

    I see no reason to ever go back to holding my code elsewhere.

    Don’t forget git is fairly new

    When I first started doing production code it was pre-github so we used some other kind of repo management system

    This is a perfect example of where the they’re starting to cannibalize their base and now we have the ability to get away from them entirely.

    (1) https://about.gitea.com/

  • jongjong 31 minutes ago

    Wow. This is theft. Should be illegal! It's like if I own a vault storage business and I am keeping other people's gold in my vaults and then I just take all the gold for myself and claim that the customers should have opted out of me stealing their gold but they missed the deadline...

  • moralestapia an hour ago

    Is this the case even if you're a paid customer?

    If so, this might be illegal.

  • api 2 hours ago

    Not your storage, not your data (unless it's encrypted with keys you control).

  • shevy-java 2 hours ago

    Microslop tries to make money off of our data on github. Not a big surprise though.

  • ChrisArchitect 2 hours ago
  • 13415 2 hours ago

    It is the feature "Allow GitHub to use my data for AI model training" that needs to be disabled. Right?

    Or am I missing some trick / dark GUI pattern? Just want to make sure.

  • tantalor an hour ago

    "Don't touch my garbage!"

  • starkeeper 2 hours ago

    So now CoPilot will be EVEN better at writing viruses, worms and malware!

  • bdangubic an hour ago

    That training will be like “OMG this is horrible… WAIT I wrote this shit”

  • shell0x 2 hours ago

    Shouldn’t this be “Tell HN”?