Inside the M4 Apple Neural Engine, Part 1: Reverse Engineering

(maderix.substack.com)

204 points | by zdw a day ago ago

47 comments

  • LatencyKills 6 hours ago

    I worked on the Xcode team for years and know the lengths Apple goes to make this stuff difficult to figure out.

    I just wanted to say that you’ve done an excellent job and am looking forward to the 3rd installment.

    • RetpolineDrama 4 hours ago

      >I worked on the Xcode team for years

      Why did you guys remove the ability to detach the console and move it to another window?

  • Octoth0rpe 6 hours ago

    Part 2 has benchmarks: https://maderix.substack.com/p/inside-the-m4-apple-neural-en...

    6.6 FLOPS/W, plus the ability to completely turn off when not in use, so 0W at idle.

  • notepad0x90 2 hours ago

    I've been guilty of this myself, but every other comment here is like "What about <insert something unrelated to the topic but related to apple>".

  • behnamoh 5 hours ago

    It's insane that the source code of ANE is not available even to the MLX team, possibly one of the reasons Awni (MLX project head) left Apple.

  • zozbot234 2 hours ago

    Much of this information we already knew the very basics of from documentation of the M1/M2 ANE as accessed via bare-metal from Asahi Linux, but it's nice to see confirmation and it being explored in further depth. Note that according to OP Parts 1/2 for very large matmuls CoreML adds little to no overhead compared to the lower-level interface, so there seems to be plenty of scope for supporting ANE for prefill in local AI frameworks. Decode is generally memory-bandwidth limited unless context is very large, and the ANE requires special handling (converting from matmul to 1x1 convolution as described here is wasteful of memory bandwidth, as is potentially dequantizing to INT8/FP16 in memory) so it's less of a clear win.

  • GeekyBear 5 hours ago

    The recent news is that Apple is supposedly replacing the Core ML framework with an updated version that will make it easier to integrate third party LLMs into your apps.

    > the company is also planning a few other software-based AI upgrades, including a new framework called Core AI. The idea is to replace the long-existing Core ML with something a bit more modern.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newsletters/2026-03-01/apple-...

  • mattlangston 7 hours ago

    The future is bright for software engineers.

    The big takeaway isn't reverse engineering the ANE per se, but what Manjeet could do with his software engineering skills when accelerated by AI.

    This is a good example of the present state of software engineering. Not future state - present state.

  • eleventyseven 6 hours ago

    > Throughout this series, “we” refers to maderix (human) and Claude Opus 4.6 (by Anthropic) working as a pair. The reverse engineering, benchmarking, and training code were developed collaboratively

    Sure, "collaboratively." Why would I ever trust a vibe coded analysis? How do I, a non expert in this niche, know that Opus isn't pulling a fast one on both of us? LLMs write convincing bullshit that even fools experts. Have you manually verified each fact in this piece? I doubt it. Thanks for the disclaimer, it saved me from having to read it.

    • Anonbrit 5 hours ago

      Humans also write endless amounts of convincing bullshit, and have done since time immemorial. False papers and faked results have been a growing scourge in academia before LLMs were a thing, and that's just counting the intentional fraud - the reproducibility crisis in science, especially medical and psychological science, affects even the best designed and well intentioned of studies.

      Humans also make mistakes and assumptions while reverse engineering, so it will always need more engineers to go through the results, test things

    • withinboredom 6 hours ago

      Claude likes to hide bad benchmarks from you, so it will show you where you are clearly winning. You even see some weird benchmarks in the article.

  • love2read 7 hours ago

    This article was clearly written by a human (and AI) but still has a few "LLMisms" such as:

    - The key insight - [CoreML] doesn't XXX. It YYY.

    With that being said, this is a highly informative article that I enjoyed thoroughly! :)

    The article links to their own Github repo: https://github.com/maderix/ANE

    • walthamstow 6 hours ago

      We've got about a year before so many people are interacting with LLMs on a daily basis that its style starts to reverse infect human speech and writing

      • baxtr 4 hours ago

        Great insight – Would you like to try and identify some specific "AI-isms" that you've noticed creeping into your own writing or your colleagues' emails lately?

      • pixl97 6 hours ago

        This said, there were people that talked like this before LLMs, it didn't develop this whole cloth.

        • pcrh 3 hours ago

          The article above doesn't read well, at all.

          It's not my subject, but it reads as a list of things. There's little exposition.

        • DrScientist 5 hours ago

          Exactly. LLM's are mimics.

          People seem to be going around pointing out that people talk like parrots, when in reality it's parrots talk like people.

          • pixl97 4 hours ago

            I mean, it's both.

            Did you develop your own whole language at any point to describe the entire world? No, you, me, and society mimic what is around us.

            Humans have the advantage, at least at this point, of being a continuous learning device so we adapt and change with the language use around us.

      • Angostura 6 hours ago

        My honest take? You're probably right

        • sholladay 5 hours ago

          You are absolutely right.

          Here is why you are correct:

          - I see what you did there.

          - You are always right.

    • rafram 5 hours ago

      Also the Prior Art section, which has telltale repetition of useless verbs like "documenting," "providing insight into," and "confirming" on each line. This was definitely AI-written, at least in part.

      • tzs 2 hours ago

        Below are the items from that section. How should they be written to not look like an AI?

        > hollance/neural-engine — Matthijs Hollemans’ comprehensive community documentation of ANE behavior, performance characteristics, and supported operations. The single best existing resource on ANE.

        > mdaiter/ane — Early reverse engineering with working Python and Objective-C samples, documenting the ANECompiler framework and IOKit dispatch.

        > eiln/ane — A reverse-engineered Linux driver for ANE (Asahi Linux project), providing insight into the kernel-level interface.

        > apple/ml-ane-transformers — Apple’s own reference implementation of transformers optimized for ANE, confirming design patterns like channel-first layout and 1×1 conv preference.

  • grey-area 3 hours ago

    If only they could fix the iOS autocomplete, which is getting worse with every iteration.

  • giancarlostoro 4 hours ago

    Reverse Engineering with AI is only going to get better. I have seen some crazy things friends of mine have done with Claude alone. Let's just says SaaS isn't the only industry that could one day suffer.

  • mayhemducks 4 hours ago

    I never realized just how much hardware engineering Apple dedicated to enabling people to type faster with their thumbs!

  • kamranjon 6 hours ago

    I have always wondered if the neural engine could be used for training - pretty excited for part 3 of this to see if the juice is actually worth the squeeze

    • juancn 4 hours ago

      In principle most if not all inference hardware should be usable for training.

      Efficiency is the question.

  • daoistmonk 5 hours ago

    Tangential: Is anyone doing something similar to accelerate the support matrix of Linux on anything higher than M2?

  • msie 4 hours ago

    I remember the good old days when Apple was desperate for developers and produced great documentation and there were a lot of great 3rd-party books too. You can't just give out awards in hopes that someone will make that great app.

    • pstuart 4 hours ago

      Yeah, the Inside Macintosh guides were epic.

  • ericol 3 hours ago

    > human intuition driving the exploration

    This, a thousand times this.

    For me, what AI brings is augmented humans. Just as we don't calculate on paper anymore, what is the reason of doing things by hand when a machine in X times better.

    Want to code by hand, as artisans of old? Suit yourself.

    I, for one, love the smell of burning chrome.

    • pklausler 3 hours ago

      If "AI" were doing anything more than repeating content from the web without attribution, I might agree with you.

  • FL33TW00D 5 hours ago

    Unreadable Claude slop

  • poszlem 8 hours ago

    Genuine question, not trying to throw a shade or anything, but are those cores actually useful with the state of apple intelligence being what it is?

    • rahkiin 8 hours ago

      They are also used by ML models that are deeply integrated in macos and ios without you knowing. Like object and text detection in images.

      • geerlingguy 6 hours ago

        And help in Photos, Final Cut Pro, and other apps.

      • willis936 6 hours ago

        I wish they would (or wouldn't if they are) hook it up to the ios keyboard.

    • dagmx 6 hours ago

      If you strip away the branding, Apple has and continues to ship a ton of algorithms that likely use the ANE and end users can use CoreML to do the same.

      Just some things that people will likely take for granted that IIRC Apple have said use the ANE or at least would likely benefit from it: object recognition, subject extraction from images and video, content analysis, ARKit, spam detection, audio transcription.

      • sroussey 5 hours ago

        Don’t forget FaceID and many of the image manipulation.

        And while everyone else went to more powerful giant LLMs, Apple moved most of Siri from the cloud to your device. Though they do use both (which you can see when Siri corrects itself during transcription—you get the local Siri version corrected later by the cloud version).

    • stetrain 7 hours ago

      Apple's OSes run a lot of local ML models for many tasks that aren't branded as Apple Intelligence, and they have done so for many years now.

    • llm_nerd 7 hours ago
      • malshe 4 hours ago

        This is a nice article. Thanks for sharing.

    • esafak 7 hours ago

      You can convert your own ML models to MLX to use them; Apple Intelligence is not the only application.

      • nullstyle 7 hours ago

        MLX does not run on NPUs AFAIK; just gpu and cpu. You have to use CoreML to officially run code on the neural engine.

        • mirsadm 7 hours ago

          Even then there is no transparency on how it decides what runs on the ANE/GPU etc

          • sroussey 5 hours ago

            Correct. OS level stuff get first priority, so you can’t count on using it.

            • znagengast 3 hours ago

              Turns out third party actually gets priority for ANE