-fbounds-safety: Enforcing bounds safety for C

(clang.llvm.org)

72 points | by thefilmore 3 days ago ago

49 comments

  • ndiddy 2 hours ago

    Has any progress been made on this? I remember seeing this proposal 3 or 4 years ago but it looks like it still hasn't been implemented. It's a shame because it seems like a useful feature. It looks like Microsoft has something similar (https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/cpp/code-quality/understan...) but it would be nice to have something that worked on other platforms.

    • Someone an hour ago

      https://discourse.llvm.org/t/the-preview-of-fbounds-safety-i...:

      “-fbounds-safety is a language extension to enforce a strong bounds safety guarantee for C. Here is our original RFC.

      We are thrilled to announce that the preview implementation of -fbounds-safety is publicly available at this fork of llvm-project. Please note that we are still actively working on incrementally open-sourcing this feature in the llvm.org/llvm-project . To date, we have landed only a small subset of our implementation, and the feature is not yet available for use there. However, the preview does contain the working feature. Here is a quick instruction on how to adopt it.”

      “This fork” is https://github.com/swiftlang/llvm-project/tree/stable/202407..., Apple’s fork of LLVM. That branch is from a year ago.

      I don’t know whether there’s a newer publicly available version.

      There is a GSoC 2026 opportunity on upstreaming this into mainline LLVM (https://discourse.llvm.org/t/gsoc-2026-participating-in-upst...)

  • hoyhoy 31 minutes ago

    Xcode (AppleClang) has had -fbounds-safety for a while now. What is the delay getting this into merged into LLVM?

  • clarabennett26 an hour ago

    The key issue is whether this can be gradually implemented in large codebases without needing a complete rewrite. ASan detects bounds violations during runtime, but its performance cost makes it unsuitable for production use. If -fbounds-safety can enforce checks while maintaining reasonable overhead and working seamlessly with unchecked translation units, it could significantly improve C safety in practice, far more than simply urging everyone to switch to Rust would.

    • hoyhoy 5 minutes ago

      I looked at trying to implement -fbounds-safety and -Wunsafe-buffer on a reasonably large codebase (4,000 C and C++ files), and it's basically impossible.

      You have to instrument every single file. It can be done in stages though. Just turn the flag on one-by-one for each file. The xnu kernel is _mostly_ instrumented with -fbounds-safety.

    • adrianN an hour ago

      There is GWPAsan that has lower overhead than asan but still is not super popular.

  • taminka 2 hours ago

    this is amazing, counter to what most ppl think, majority of memory bugs are from out of bounds access, not stuff like forgetting to free a pointer or some such

    • Night_Thastus 2 minutes ago

      Personally, as someone in C and C++ for the last few years, memory access is almost never the root bug. It's almost always logic errors. Not accounting for all paths, not handling edge cases, not being able to handle certain combinations of user or file input, etc.

      Occasionally an out-of-bounds access pops up, but they're generally so blindingly obvious and easy to fix that it's never been the slow part of bug fixing.

    • woodruffw 5 minutes ago

      "Majority" could mean a few things; I wouldn't be surprised if the majority of discovered memory bugs are spatial, but I'd expect the majority of widely exploited memory bugs to be temporal (or pseudo-temporal, like type confusions).

    • Retr0id 2 hours ago

      I think UAFs are more common in mature software

      • q3k 2 hours ago

        Or type confusion bugs, or any other stuff that stems from complex logic having complex bugs.

        Boundary checking for array indexing is table stakes.

        • michh an hour ago

          table stakes, but people still mess up on it constantly. The "yeah, but that's only a problem if you're an idiot" approach to this kind of thing hasn't served us very well so it's good to see something actually being done.

          Trains shouldn't collide if the driver is correctly observing the signals, that's table stakes too. But rather than exclusively focussing on improving track to reduce derailments we also install train protection systems that automatically intervene when the driver does miss a signal. Cause that happens a lot more than a derailment. Even though "pay attention, see red signal? stop!" is conceptually super easy.

          • q3k an hour ago

            I'm not saying it's not important, it is. I just don't believe that '[the] majority of memory bugs are from out of bounds access'. That was maybe true 20 years ago, when an unbounded strcpy to an unprotected return pointer on the stack was super common and exploiting this kind of vulnerabilities what most vulndev was.

            This brings C one tiny step closer to the state of the art, which is commendable, but I don't believe codebases which start using this will reduce their published vulnerability count significantly. Making use of this requires effort and diligence, and I believe most codebases that can expend such effort already have a pretty good security track record.

    • random_mutex 2 hours ago

      There is use after free

      • eecc 2 hours ago

        Majority. Parent said majority

  • manbash an hour ago

    Exciting! It doesn't imply that we should now sprinkle the new annotations everywhere. We still should keep working with proper iterators and robust data structures, and those would need to add such annotations.

  • worldsavior 2 hours ago

    Very cool. I always wondered why there isn't something like this in GCC/LLVM, it would obviously solve uncountable of security issues.

  • musicale a day ago

    I want an OS distro where all C code is compiled this way.

    OpenBSD maybe? or a fork of CheriBSD?

    macOS clang has supported -fbounds-safety for a while, but I"m not sure how extensively it is used.

    • kgeist an hour ago

      Maybe this:

      https://fil-c.org/pizlix

      >Pizlix is LFS (Linux From Scratch) 12.2 with some added components, where userland is compiled with Fil-C. This means you get the most memory safe Linux-like OS currently available.

      The author, @pizlonator, is active on HN.

      • hsaliak 36 minutes ago

        https://github.com/hsaliak/filc-bazel-template i created this recently to make it super easy to get started with fil-c projects. If you find it daunting to get started with the setup in the core distribution and want a 3-4 step approach to building a fil-c enabled binary, then try this.

      • functionmouse an hour ago

        hot dang that's neato. shame about the name, though.

    • wyldfire 3 hours ago

      You need to annotate your program with indications of what variable tracks the size of the allocation. So, sure, but first work on the packages in the distro.

      Note that corresponding checks for C++ library containers can be enabled without modifying the source. Google measured some very small overhead (< 0.5% IIRC) so they turned it on in production. But I'd expect an OS distro to be mostly C.

      [1] https://libcxx.llvm.org/Hardening.html

    • pjmlp 3 hours ago

      It is called Solaris, and has this enabled since 2015 on SPARC.

      https://docs.oracle.com/en/operating-systems/solaris/oracle-...

    • bombcar 3 hours ago

      Get gentoo, add this to CFLAGS and start fixing everything that breaks. Become a hero.

    • 1over137 3 hours ago

      >I want an OS distro where all C code is compiled this way.

      You first have to modify "all C code". It's not just a set and forget compiler flag.

    • prussian 3 hours ago

      Fedora and its kernels are built with GCC's _FORTIFY_SOURCE and I've seen modules crash for out of bounds reads.

      • dezgeg 2 hours ago

        _FORTIFY_SOURCE is way smaller in scope (as in, closes less vulnerabilities) than -fbounds-safety.

    • groundzeros2015 2 hours ago

      What are you hoping it will achieve?

      • irishcoffee 2 hours ago

        The internet went down because cloudflare used a bad config... a config parsed by a rust app.

        One of these days the witch hunt against C will go away.

        • hypeatei an hour ago

          The internet didn't go down and you're mischaracterizing it as a parsing issue when the list would've exceeded memory allocation limits. They didn't hardcode a fallback config for that case. What memory safety promise did Rust fail there exactly?

          • groundzeros2015 an hour ago

            I think the point is memory bugs are only one (small) subset of bugs.

        • random_mutex 2 hours ago

          A panic in Rust is easier to diagnose and fix than some error or grabage data that was caused by an out of bounds access in some random place in the call stack

        • wat10000 an hour ago

          A service going down is a million times better than being exploited by an attacker. If this is a witch hunt then C is an actual witch.

    • pezgrande 3 hours ago

      does any distro uses clang? I thought all linux kernels were compiled using gcc.

      • zmodem 2 hours ago

        Not a Linux distro, but FreeBSD uses Clang.

        And Android uses Clang for its Linux kernel.

        -fbounds-safety is not yet available in upstream Clang though:

        > NOTE: This is a design document and the feature is not available for users yet.

      • honktime 2 hours ago

        Chimera does, it also has a FreeBSD userland AFAIU.

        https://chimera-linux.org/

  • cranberryturkey an hour ago

    The real question is adoption friction. The annotation requirement means this won't just slot into existing codebases — someone has to go through and mark up every buffer relationship. Google turning on libcxx hardening in production with <0.5% overhead is compelling precisely because it required zero source changes.

    The incremental path matters more than the theoretical coverage. I'd love to see benchmarks on a real project — how many annotations per KLOC, and what % of OOB bugs it actually catches in practice vs. what ASAN already finds in CI.

  • nananana9 3 hours ago

      template <typename T>
      struct Slice {
          T* data = nullptr;
          size_t size = nullptr;
    
          T& operator[](size_t index) {
            if (index >= size) crash_the_program();
            return data[index];
          }
      };
    
    
    If you're considering this extension, just use C++ and 5 lines of standard, portable, no-weird-annotations code instead.
    • uecker 2 hours ago

      Or just do it in C.

        #define span(T) struct span_##T { size_t len; T *data; }
        #define span_access(T, x, i) (*({              \
          span(T) *_v = (x);                           \
          auto _i = (i);                               \
          if (((size_t)_i) >= _v->len) abort();        \
          &_v->data[_i];                               \
        }))
      
      https://godbolt.org/z/TvxseshGc
      • nananana9 2 hours ago

        Still requires a gcc/clang specific extension (although this one I'd be very happy to see standardized)

      • fuhsnn an hour ago

        The fact that pointer types can't be used with this pattern without typedef still seems kinda primitive to me.

    • zmodem 2 hours ago

      The extension is for hardening legacy C code without breaking ABI.

    • pjmlp 3 hours ago

      Even better, starting with C++26, and considered to be done with DR for previous versions, hardned runtimes now have a portable way to be configured across compilers, instead of each having their own approach.

      However, you still need something like -fbounds-safety in C++, due to the copy-paste compatibility with C, and too many people writing Orthodox C++, C with Classes, Better C, kind of code, that we cannot get rid of.

      • nananana9 3 hours ago

        I'm sure std::span is great, but I like mine better :)

        I find it a bit hard to justify using the STL when a single <unordered_map> include costs 250ms compile time per compile unit.

        The fact that I don't have to step through this in the debugger is also a bonus:

          template <size_t _Offset, size_t _Count = dynamic_extent>
          [[nodiscard]] _LIBCPP_HIDE_FROM_ABI constexpr auto subspan() const noexcept
              -> span<element_type, _Count != dynamic_extent ? _Count : _Extent - _Offset> {
            static_assert(_Offset <= _Extent, "span<T, N>::subspan<Offset, Count>(): Offset out of range");
            static_assert(_Count == dynamic_extent || _Count <= _Extent - _Offset,
                          "span<T, N>::subspan<Offset, Count>(): Offset + Count out of range");
        
            using _ReturnType = span<element_type, _Count != dynamic_extent ? _Count : _Extent - _Offset>;
            return _ReturnType{data() + _Offset, _Count == dynamic_extent ? size() - _Offset : _Count};
          }
        • pjmlp 2 hours ago

          Only if not able to do import std, or pre-compiled headers, and not using modern IDEs with "just my code" filters.

          As someone that enjoys C++ since 1993, alongside other ecosystems, many pain points on using C++ complaints are self inflicted, by avoiding using modern tools.

          Heck, C++ had nice .NET and Java alike frameworks, with bounds checking even, before those two systems came to exist, and nowadays all those frameworks are mostly gone with exception of Qt and C++ Builder ones, due to bias.

    • wat10000 2 hours ago

      You should tell the LLVM folks, I guess they didn't know about this.

    • baq 3 hours ago

      and if you write directly in assembly you don't even need a C++ compiler

      • nananana9 3 hours ago

        That's an objectively correct statement, but I don't see how it makes sense as a response to my comment, as I'm advocating to use the more advanced feature-rich tool over the compiler-specific-hacks one.

        • zephen 2 hours ago

          > I don't see how it makes sense as a response to my comment

          Your comment started out with "just."

          As if there are never any compelling reasons to want to make existing C code better.

          But instead of taking that as an opportunity to reflect on when various tools might be appropriate,

          > as I'm advocating to use the more advanced feature-rich tool over the compiler-specific-hacks one.

          You've simply doubled down.