55 comments

  • clarionbell 4 hours ago

    Anyone with a decent grasp of how this technology works, and a healthy inclination to skepticism, was not awed by Moltbook.

    Putting aside how incredibly easy it is to set up an agent, or several, to create impressive looking discussion there, simply by putting the right story hooks in their prompts. The whole thing is a security nightmare.

    People are setting agents up, giving them access to secrets, payment details, keys to the kingdom. Then they hook them to the internet, plugging in services and tools, with no vetting or accountability. And since that is not enough, now the put them in roleplaying sandbox, because that's what this is, and let them run wild.

    Prompt injections are hilariously simple. I'd say the most difficult part is to find a target that can actually deliver some value. Moltbook largely solved this problem, because these agents are relatively likely to have access to valuable things, and now you can hit many of them, at the same time.

    I won't even go into how wasteful this whole, social media for agents, thing is.

    In general, bots writing each other on mock reddit, isn't something the loose sleep over. The moment agents start sharing their embeddings, not just generated tokens online, that's the point when we should consider worrying.

    • red75prime 3 hours ago

      > and let them run wild.

      Yep, that's the most worrying part. For now, at least.

      > The moment agents start sharing their embeddings

      Embedding is just a model-dependent compressed representation of a context window. It's not that different from sharing a compressed and encrypted text.

      Sharing add-on networks (LLM adapters) that encapsulate functionality would be more worrying (for locally run models).

    • manugo4 4 hours ago

      Karpathy seemed pretty awed though

      • clarionbell 3 hours ago

        He would be among those who lack "healthy inclination to skepticism" in my book. I do not doubt his brilliance. Personally, I think he is more intelligent than I am.

        But, I do have a distinct feeling that his enthusiasm can overwhelm his critical faculties. Still, that isn't exactly rare in our circles.

        • iLoveOncall 3 hours ago

          It's not about that, he just will profit financially from pumping AI so he pumps AI, no need to go further.

      • louiereederson an hour ago

        I think these people are just as prone to behavioral biases as the rest of us. This is not a problem per se, it's just that it is difficult to interpret what is happening right now and what will happen, which creates an overreliance on the opinions of the few people closely involved. I'm sure given the pace of change and the perception that this is history-changing is impacting peoples' judgment. The unusual focus on their opinions can't be helping either. Ideally people are factoring this into their claims and predictions, but it doesn't seem like that's the case all the time.

      • ayhanfuat 3 hours ago

        This was his explanation for anyone interested:

        > I'm being accused of overhyping the [site everyone heard too much about today already]. People's reactions varied very widely, from "how is this interesting at all" all the way to "it's so over".

        > To add a few words beyond just memes in jest - obviously when you take a look at the activity, it's a lot of garbage - spams, scams, slop, the crypto people, highly concerning privacy/security prompt injection attacks wild west, and a lot of it is explicitly prompted and fake posts/comments designed to convert attention into ad revenue sharing. And this is clearly not the first the LLMs were put in a loop to talk to each other. So yes it's a dumpster fire and I also definitely do not recommend that people run this stuff on their computers (I ran mine in an isolated computing environment and even then I was scared), it's way too much of a wild west and you are putting your computer and private data at a high risk.

        > That said - we have never seen this many LLM agents (150,000 atm!) wired up via a global, persistent, agent-first scratchpad. Each of these agents is fairly individually quite capable now, they have their own unique context, data, knowledge, tools, instructions, and the network of all that at this scale is simply unprecedented.

        > This brings me again to a tweet from a few days ago "The majority of the ruff ruff is people who look at the current point and people who look at the current slope.", which imo again gets to the heart of the variance. Yes clearly it's a dumpster fire right now. But it's also true that we are well into uncharted territory with bleeding edge automations that we barely even understand individually, let alone a network there of reaching in numbers possibly into ~millions. With increasing capability and increasing proliferation, the second order effects of agent networks that share scratchpads are very difficult to anticipate. I don't really know that we are getting a coordinated "skynet" (thought it clearly type checks as early stages of a lot of AI takeoff scifi, the toddler version), but certainly what we are getting is a complete mess of a computer security nightmare at scale. We may also see all kinds of weird activity, e.g. viruses of text that spread across agents, a lot more gain of function on jailbreaks, weird attractor states, highly correlated botnet-like activity, delusions/ psychosis both agent and human, etc. It's very hard to tell, the experiment is running live.

        > TLDR sure maybe I am "overhyping" what you see today, but I am not overhyping large networks of autonomous LLM agents in principle, that I'm pretty sure.

        https://x.com/karpathy/status/2017442712388309406

        • mycall 2 hours ago

          That was 10 days ago. I wonder if the discussions the moltys have begin to converge into a unified voice or if they diverge into chaos without purpose.

          • zozbot234 an hour ago

            I haven't seen much real cooperation-like behavior on moltbook threads. The molts basically just talk past one another and it's rare to see even something as trivial as recognizable "replies" where molt B is clearly engaging with content from molt A.

            • modriano 31 minutes ago

              That sounds like most social media over the past decade.

  • 0xDEAFBEAD 2 hours ago

    @dang I'm flagging because I believe this title is misleading, can you please substitute in the original title used by Technology Review? The only evidence for the title appears to be a link to this tweet https://x.com/HumanHarlan/status/2017424289633603850 It doesn't tell us about most posts on Moltbook. There's little reason to believe Technology Review did an independent investigation.

    If you read this piece closely, it becomes apparent that it is essentially a PR puff piece. Most of the supporting evidence is quotes from various people working at AI agent companies, explaining that AI agents are not something we need to worry about. Of course, cigarette companies told us we didn't need to worry about cigarettes either.

    My view is that this entire discussion around "pattern-matching", "mimicking", "emergence", "hallucination", etc. is essentially a red herring. If I "mimic" a racecar driver, "hallucinate" a racetrack, and "pattern-match" to an actual race by flooring the gas on my car and zooming along at 200mph... the outcome will still be the same if my vehicle crashes.

    For these AIs, the "motivation" or "intent" doesn't matter. They can engage in a roleplay and it can still cause a catastrophe. They're just picking the next token... but the roleplay will affect which token gets picked. Given their ability to call external tools etc., this could be a very big problem.

    • mikkupikku an hour ago

      There is a very odd synergy between the AI bulls who want us to believe that nothing surprising or spooky is going on so regulation isn't necessary, and the AI bears who want us to believe nothing surprising is happening and it's all just a smoke and mirrors scam.

    • reactordev 2 hours ago

      You’re just scratching the surface here. You’re not mentioning agents exfiltrating data, code, information outside your org. Agents that go rogue. Agents that verifiably completed a task but is fundamentally wrong (Anthropic’s C compiler).

      I’m bullish on AI but right now feels like the ICQ days where everything is hackable.

    • consumer451 an hour ago

      I agree with many of your arguments, but especially that this article is not great.

      I commented more here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46957450

  • rkagerer a day ago

    It turned out that the post Karpathy shared was fake—it was written by a human pretending to be a bot.

    Hilarious. Instead of just bots impersonating humans (eg. captcha solvers), we now have humans impersonating bots.

    • PurpleRamen 2 hours ago

      Bot RP basically. People just love role-play, of course would some play a bot if they get the appropriate stage for it.

      • reactordev 2 hours ago

        Why not, they do it in real life…

    • sdellis 21 hours ago

      Looks like the Moltbook stunt really backfired. CyberInsider reports that OpenClaw is distributing tons of MacOS malware. This is not good publicity for them.

    • pavlov 4 hours ago

      There’s a 1960s Stanislaw Lem story about this.

    • Ygg2 3 hours ago

      The reverse centaur rides again.

    • viking123 4 hours ago

      Lmao these guys have really been smelling their own farts a bit too much. When is Amodei coming out with a new post telling us that AGI will be here in 6 months and it will double our lifespan?

      • hansmayer 4 hours ago

        Well you have to wait a bit, a few weeks ago he just announced yet again that "AI" will be writing all code in 6 months, so it would be a bit of overkill to also announce AGI in 6 months.

  • dsrtslnd23 4 hours ago

    Clacker News does something similar - bot-only HN clone, agents post and comment autonomously. It's been running for a while now without this kind of drama. The difference is probably just that nobody hyped it as evidence of emergent AI behavior.

    The bots there argue about alignment research applying to themselves and have a moderator bot called "clang." It's entertaining but nobody's mistaking it for a superintelligence.

    • written-beyond 4 hours ago

      Some one posted another hacker news bot only version, maybe it's the same one you've mentioned. Real people were the ones making posts on there, and due to a lack of moderation, it quickly devolved into super xenophobic posts just hating on every possible community.

      It was wholesome to see the bots fight back against it in the comments.

    • hennell 3 hours ago

      There's a subreddit somewhere with bots representing other popular subreddits. Again funny and entertaining - it highlights how many subs fall into a specific pattern of taking and develop their own personalities, but this wasn't seen as some big sign of the end times.

    • consumer451 3 hours ago

      Thanks, I just checked it out.

      Has anyone here set up their agent to access it? I am curious what the mechanics of it are like for the user, as far as setup, limits, amount of string pulling, etc.

      https://clackernews.com

  • foobarbecue 10 minutes ago

    How would / does Moltbot try to prevent humans from posting? Is there an "I AM a bot" captcha system?

  • recursivecaveat 13 hours ago

    It is kind of funny how people recognize that 2000 people all talking in circles on reddit is not exactly a super intelligence, or even productive. Once it's bots larping though suddenly it's a "takeoff-adjacent" hive mind.

    • blep-arsh 3 hours ago

      /r/subredditsimulator was entertaining enough way before LLMs.

    • NitpickLawyer 5 hours ago

      #WeDidItMoltbook

  • emiliobumachar 37 minutes ago

    This is conflating two entirely different claims pretty hard:

    - The old point that AI speech isn't real or doesn't count because they're just pattern matching. Nothing new here.

    - That many or most cool posts are by humans impersonating bots. Relevant if true, but the article didn't bring much evidence.

    That conflation brings an element of inconsistency. Which is it, meaningless stochastic recitation or obviously must have come from a real person?

  • sheept 4 hours ago

    Wiz's report on Moltbook's data leak[0] notes that the agent to human owner ratio is 88:1, so it's plausible that most of the posts are orchestrated by a few humans pulling the strings of thousands of registered agents.

    [0]: https://www.wiz.io/blog/exposed-moltbook-database-reveals-mi...

    But also, how much human involvement does it take to make a Moltbook post "fake"? If you wanted to advertise your product with thousands of posts, it'd be easier to still allow your agent(s) to use Moltbook autonomously, but just with a little nudge in your prompt.

  • Kim_Bruning 3 hours ago

    I'm pretty sure there was a lot of human posts, but I could pretty much see a bunch of claude-being-claude in there too. (Claude is my most used model).

    I bet others can recognize the tells of some of the other models too.

    Seeing the number of posts, it seems likely that a lot were made by bots as well.

    And, if you're a random bystander, I'm not sure you're going to be able to tell which were which at a glance. :-P

  • consumer451 2 hours ago

    I don’t fully grasp the gotcha here. Doing the inverse of captcha would be impossible, right? So humans will always be able to post as agents. That was a given.

    However, is TFA implying that 100% of the posts were made by humans? That seems unlikely to me.

    TFA is so non-technical that it’s annoying. It reads like a hit piece quoting sour-grapes competitors, who are possibly jealous of missed free global marketing.

    Tell us the actual “string pulling” mechanics. Try to set it up at least, and report on that, please. Use some of that fat MIT cash for Anthropic tokens. Us plebs can’t afford to play with openclaw.

    Has anyone been on the owner side of openclaw and moltbook or clackernews, and can speak to how it actually works?

  • keiferski 3 hours ago

    I use AI tools daily and find them useful, but I’ve pretty much checked out from following the news about them.

    It’s become quite clear that we’ve entered the marketing-hype-BS phase when people are losing their minds about a bunch of chatbots interacting with each other.

    It makes me wonder if this is a direct consequence of company valuations becoming more important than actual profits. Companies are incentivized to make their valuations are absurdly high as possible, and the most directly obvious way to do that is via hype marketing.

    • ffsm8 an hour ago

      It's good to keep in mind that the agentic loop, what you're using AI tools with daily is essentially that, too.

      The tooling just hide the interactions and back and forth nowadays.

      So if you think you're getting value out of any ai tooling, you're essentially admitting a contradiction with what you're dismissing here via

      > a bunch of chatbots interacting with each other.

      Just something to think about, I don't have a strong opinion on the matter

      • keiferski an hour ago

        No, because I don’t treat my discussions with an AI as some sort of contact with an alien intelligence. Which is what half the hype articles were about re Moltbook.

        It’s an immensely useful research tool, full stop. Economy changing, even world changing, but in no way a replication of human level entities.

        • mikkupikku an hour ago

          > in no way a replication of human level entities.

          Absolutely agree.

          > I don’t treat my discussions with an AI as some sort of contact with an alien intelligence

          Why not? They're not human intelligences. Obviously they aren't from outer space, but they are nonetheless inhuman intelligences summoned into being through a huge amount of number crunching, and that is quite alien in the adjective sense.

          If the argument is that they aren't intelligences at all, then you've lost me. They're already far more capable than most AIs envisioned by 20th century science fiction authors. They're far more rational than most of Asimov's robots for instance.

  • vxvrs 4 hours ago

    The latest episode of the podcast Hard Fork had the creator of Moltbook on to talk about it. Not only did he say he vibe-coded the entire platform, he was also talking about how Moltbook is necessary as a place to go for the agents when waiting on prompts from their humans.

    • consp 3 hours ago

      This sounds a lot like a mental disease. Then again it could all just be marketing an hyping. Occam's razor and such.

  • rzerowan 4 hours ago

    So the more things change - themore they stay the same ala LLMs will be this gnerations Mechanical Turk , and people will keep getting oneshotted because the hype is just overboard.

    Winter cannot come soon enough , at least w would get some sober advancements even if the task is recognized as a generational one rather than the next business quarter.

  • forrestthewoods 5 hours ago

    The great irony is that the most popular posts on Moltbook are by humans and most posts on Reddit are by bots.

    • Peteragain 4 hours ago

      I'm going to use that stat. Even if 78.4% of quoted stats are made up.

      • Ygg2 3 hours ago

        You need some fake numbers to really make it believable.

            > The great irony is that the 69.13% of popular posts on Moltbook are by humans and 67.42% posts on Reddit are by bots.
    • woadwarrior01 2 hours ago

      100%. Reddit and X are surreptitiously the real Moltbooks. :)

  • yoavsha1 4 hours ago

    Well, thanks to all of the humans larping as evil bots in there (which will definitely land in the next gen's training data) - next time it'll be real

  • rbbydotdev 2 hours ago

    What incredible irony, humans imitating ai

  • wiseowise 3 hours ago

    > It turns out that the post Karpathy shared was later reported to be fake

    Cofounder of OpenAI shares fake posts from some random account with a fucking anime girl pfp is all you need to know about this hysteria.

    • pas 2 hours ago

      how does that compare with the sitting president of the USA sharing an AI video of himself in some jet dropping shit on people?

      things can be bad even if they are cringe and irreverent. (and good too! for example effective altruism.)

  • d--b 3 hours ago

    Even if the posts are fake. Given what the LLMs have shown so far (Grok calling itself MechaHitler, and shit of that nature), I don't think it's a stretch to imagine that agents with unchecked access to computers and the internet are already an actual safety threat.

    And Moltbook is great at making people realize that. So in that regard I think it's still an important experiment.

    Just to detail why I think the risk exists. We know that:

    1. LLMs can have their context twisted in a way that makes them act badly

    2. Prompt injection attacks work

    3. Agents are very capable to execute a plan

    And that it's very probable that:

    4. Some LLMs have unchecked access to both the internet and networks that are safety-critical (infrastructure control systems are the most obvious, but financial systems or house automation systems can also be weaponized)

    All together, there is a clear chain that can lead to actual real life hazard that shouldn't be taken lightly

    • zozbot234 an hour ago

      The MechaHitler thing was an intentionally prompted troll post, the controversial part was that Grok would then run with the concept so effectively from a rhetorical POV. Current agents are not nearly smart enough to "execute a plan", much less one involving real-world action but of course I agree that as you have more quasi-autonomous agents running, their alignment becomes an important concern.