Presence in Death

(rubinmuseum.org)

59 points | by tock 6 hours ago ago

19 comments

  • niemandhier 6 minutes ago

    Interesting thing I learned: Once you die the biome in your intestines massively contributes to processes that breakdown your body. That’s why decapitated heads are often in much better shape then the remaining body, especially if the surrounding environment is generally conserving the body, such as is the case in dry mountains or bogs.

    • mrexcess 3 minutes ago

      From my understanding of the Buddhist process described here, the ritual often begins days or weeks before death, and includes exclusive consumption of substances like plant tars that dramatically reduce the presence of gut bacteria, and that this effect rather than anything supernatural is what most attribute to the most significant decay processes being temporarily inhibited - there's no gut bacteria left to decompose the body from the inside out.

  • JohnMakin 2 hours ago

    I have been studying and practicing tibetan buddhism for a little over a year now, particularly dream yoga, but branched into some of the other practices. I'm always a skeptic but it is fascinating some of the stuff they can do. There is scientific evidence they can raise and lower their body temperatures through meditation, withstanding great heat/cold and deprivation conditions. I've played around with deprivation and what it has done for my mental health and body has surprised me. I'm but a novice, but I absolutely believe they are tapping into something scientific about the body/mind that is still unknown.

    There are reasons to be extremely skeptical about some of their claims, but, some of it is very interesting and credible.

  • fpoling 4 hours ago

    There are stories about bodies of Christian monks that did not decompose for a log time after the dearth. Modern take on it attributes it to the climate in caves where the body was put after the dearth. But another important part was diet. Often the well-preserved bodies were of those who had eaten only rough bread and water for months and years before the dearth.

    So I suspect both of the factors are at the play here as well.

    • lkos 3 hours ago

      Also related: Mystery of the Tibetan Mummy (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCkB9daCVZ0)

    • michaelsbradley 3 hours ago

      I think you’re referring to the phenomenon named “incorruptibility”:

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incorruptibility

      Recent case, died 2019, found not decomposed in 2023, had not been embalmed, unsealed wood coffin:

      https://www.ncregister.com/cna/incorrupt-body-of-sister-wilh...

      • fpoling an hour ago

        In "The Brothers Karamazov" by Fyodor Dostoevsky describes sort-of the opposite process. A body of monk who had been considered a living saint started to smell on the second day after his dearth. That made everybody to realize that he was the opposite of the saint. And then another monk mentioned that eating sweets and cakes could not lead to sainthood.

        • hirvi74 a minute ago

          The peasant child died and didn't stink though. So, I guess he didn't eat a lot sweets I suppose that aligns with his wretched upbringing...

        • gus_massa an hour ago

          Assuming no supernatural forces, can this sweets adversion be explained by the fat vs muscle ratio in the body?

    • snozolli 32 minutes ago

      I read an article about this years ago and came away with the impression that they were effectively mummifying themselves before death. From the Wikipedia page on sokushinbutsu:

      In medieval Japan, this tradition developed a process for sokushinbutsu, which a monk completed over about 3,000 days. It involved a strict diet called mokujiki (literally, 'eating a tree'). The monk abstained from any cereals and relied on pine needles, resins, and seeds found in the mountains, which would eliminate all fat in the body. Increasing rates of fasting and meditation would lead to starvation. The monks would slowly reduce then stop liquid intake, thus dehydrating the body and shrinking all organs.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sokushinbutsu

  • jadbox 4 hours ago

    If TRUE and consciousness is eternal (using whatever framework you like), the idea of death becomes double sided. On one hand, physical death is sad as it's the end of this physical 'epic story' before our consciousness moves onto a new body/story. On the flip side, approaching body death is a sort of a temporary great relief as we are immortal and cannot actually die. I.e. After ten thousand years of being alive, a vampire looks forward to sleeping in their coffin at night.

    • tasuki 30 minutes ago

      Consciousness is eternal. If your ego is an illusion, who gets reborn?

    • 0xdeadbeefbabe 37 minutes ago

      Don't vampires sleep in the day? I read the tech manual, no personal experience, ahem.

  • ynac 38 minutes ago

    Since we're of a certain level of interest and openness, I'll throw a pop fiction title into the mix: Dan Brown's /Secret of Secrets/ for a tip toe through the non-local mind and soul topic. It's a 4 index card book for me - meaning I have 4 index cards of notes, references, and words worthy of reflection or research. Pretty good for a fiction best seller.

  • lkos 4 hours ago

    The research mentioned in the article (which indicates no EEG activity): https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7876463/

    • xattt 4 hours ago

      One of the referenced articles is a wilder read, just even from the title: “Decapitation in Rats: Latency to Unconsciousness and the ‘Wave of Death’” (1).

      This research is more than deserving of the Ig Nobel.

      (1) https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3029360/

  • virgil_disgr4ce 3 hours ago

    Here's the documentary referred to: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt21945758/

    It's rentable at the usual places. I might check it out.

  • theptip 2 hours ago

    Some of these esoteric states are really weird, and it seems crazy to me that we are only now investigating them. This isn’t just “energy” woo that can’t be measured, there are clear physical phenomena.

    Another good one is Niroda Samapatti (cessation) where advanced meditators can momentarily cease awareness https://awakeningdharma.org/havard-study-on-nirodha-samapatt...

    • lkuty an hour ago

      Made me think of "How to do the jhanas" by Nadia Asparouhova: https://nadia.xyz/jhanas Cessation is impressive and the rest too.