Doesn't Apple have a Face ID trick with a paired iPhone to replace Touch ID on macOS?
That is probably why. They prefer you to buy an iPhone than to sell you another gadget.
By the way, I like the idea but for some reason it unpairs randomly and I have to go into settings and re-enable it every couple of months. Really annoying.
The standalone Touch ID key button is just under the size of 2x2x1 Lego. I integrated mine into a space diorama set for better vibes: https://imgur.com/a/Im7t9Xb
I’m on this bandwagon. Have my own keyboard (literally just finished soldering and 3D printing one) and still have to have the Apple keyboard cluttering my desk for biometrics). Have been thinking about this for a while, but it feels incredibly wasteful to spoil a useful piece of equipment just for the sake of getting at that sensor.
I came upon a spare Touch ID keyboard. I just got Command strips and adhered the whole keyboard to the underside of my desk. USB cable is clipped to the desk and goes to my dock. I've got the fingerprint reader right next to my standing desk controls so it's really convenient, and I still get to use my Keychron as my keyboard. The low profile of the Apple keyboard means it doesn't get in the way.
Also every time I need to unlock my Mac or sudo I get to feel like I'm tripping the silent alarm at the bank.
I tried living with just the Apple Watch instead of the Touch ID for a few months to see how reliable it was...
Sometimes it would take a few minutes in the morning before my Mac would even recognize 'hey, there's a watch' (typing in my full password was usually much quicker than waiting for the watch unlock).
Sometimes whatever notification happens that triggers the watch to vibrate and allow the double-squeeze-to-accept action would just... not.
Other times the above notification would pop up about 8-15 seconds after the prompt on the screen.
It was inconsistent enough I got _really_ good at typing my password, since it was normally quicker than waiting on the Apple Watch.
Contrast that with the Touch ID, that's always ready to go.
You can use apple watch for password managers and all macos passwords prompts. Does require an apple silicon mac iirc.
The main downside is it doesn't always recognize and it takes a few seconds to trigger. I'd love a separate touch id. But absent that the watch is quite useful.
The Apple Watch knows that it's you, or at least somebody that knows your PIN.
It's tied to your iPhone and Apple account during initial setup.
Each time you put the Apple Watch on, you have to enter your PIN to unlock it. It can only perform automatic unlocking of your Mac and iPhone in this unlocked state.
The watch does automatic wrist detection and it will automatically RE-lock itself as soon as you take it off.
This is reasonably secure for most needs, though of course you can disable all of this automatic unlocking if you want more security. I forget if it's on by default or not. IIRC I had to enable it but I'm not too sure.
The watch needs to be unlocked either with a PIN code or can be set to unlock on close proximity to iPhone which unlocks via Face ID (or Touch ID, or a passcode). Once it is in an authenticated state it remains unlocked while it is attached to a wrist. I’m not totally clear how it detects when it separates from a wrist (probably a light sensor, heart rate sensor or some heuristic derived from the both - but it’s pretty instantaneous and reliable). “Privileged” actions like payments or escalation prompts still require a double click of the watch’s physical button to confirm, but in this authenticated state it is possible to use the watch to unlock Mac or iPhone based on proximity alone.
It has no concept of “who” you are, only that it got positively authenticated while on a wrist by proximity to your iPhone unlock or a manual correct PIN entry and hasn’t separated from that wrist since.
This is a bit offtopic (but im genuinely curious since i dont use iPhones) but is there any advantage to using faceid over touchid in iphones?
This Notch/Dynamic Island looks terrible IMO. Also you can "Authorize" stuff without even having physical access to your device, someone could in theory pick up your phone, make it face towards you, say "LOOK!" and your phone is unlocked.
Also i found it far more unreliable to instantly unlock.
A fingerprint reader inside the powerbutton is the way to go IMO, you instantly unlock when u press the power button, you have to actually touch the device to verify and you have no notch.
IIRC just looking at the confirmation if i wanted to buy something in the app store via face id was enough to confirm it.
I believe Apple UX guidelines mandate some sort of explicit confirmation before taking any action after authenticating the user with Face ID, but I've unfortunately also seen many apps not really conform to that.
> IIRC just looking at the confirmation if i wanted to buy something in the app store via face id was enough to confirm it.
Apple themselves are generally good about asking for explicit confirmation, but annoyingly in a way nobody else can replicate: They repurposed double pressing the power button, which is otherwise the Apple Pay secure attention sequence, for exactly one non-Apple-Pay action – buying something in the App Store (or iTunes store etc.)
For me the biggest advantage of faceid is that it isn't bothered by wet fingers or gloves. It works most of the time, where I remember struggling more (though still not often) with touchid. This was with an iphone 8, so I don't know how good they are now.
This. I’d complain more about Face ID if Apple Pay wasn’t the first payment mechanism I’ve used that reliably fulfills the promise of being faster/easier than cash, and Face ID + mechanical button is a big part of that.
I’ve been griping over this for years now. I get pretty bad RSI so like using a split mechanical keyboard for coding, but I also use long/complex passwords so I like using Touch ID too. It dumbfounds me that you can’t get a Touch ID pad or even a numpad with Touch ID to sit next to aftermarket keyboards.
I bought a used Magic Keyboard on eBay for about $50 to sit within reach of my mechanical keyboard. Considered mounting it under my desk but haven’t bothered yet.
I actually have a small Magic Keyboard under my desk (in the keyboard tray). It’s positioned, so that I can reach under, without looking, and touch the Touch ID.
I don’t like the rest of the keyboard. I have a big Keychron on top of the desk, that I use for typing.
So this setup is for people who use a Mac, but not a Mac laptop (or who keep the laptop closed and use it exclusively with an external monitor), and who also don't want to buy Apple's keyboard with Touch ID, or an Apple Watch. I gotta say, I don't think that's a huge group of people.
Having a mac laptop doesn't help either if you use it primarily as a secondary monitor, relatively far away from your reach. This is a pretty standard setup in enterprise IMHO.
Then not wanting to wear a watch and wishing for a better keyboard than the Apple one don't sound outlandish either.
Yeah - I’ve heard people say that the laptop lid (screen) is too thin for the sensors required to do proper FaceID (as opposed to just using the existing optical camera, which is easily fooled). But I don’t understand why the notch part of the screen just couldn’t be a bit deeper (and have a corresponding cutout on the bottom part of the laptop to accomodate it when the lid is closed).
Then again, given how often the FaceID on my iPhone fails to recognise me…
A big proportion of everyone who uses a non-Apple keyboard with their Mac, I'd say. I would absolutely use one with my ergonomic keyboard, TouchID is so much more convenient than constantly typing your password in.
That has got to be a joke. It's like they're mocking their customers. I can't stop laughing at the sight of the guy they somehow convinced to model this thing in their promotional photo.
I don’t get the extreme negative reaction here and elsewhere. It’s not for me either, but I also don’t think it looks ridiculous – it just a little bag. There’s a pretty hard limit on how crazy that can look. It’s like the detractors aren’t aware or accepting that there are people with different tastes in the world. Why not just say “it’s not for me”?
It's a trendy fashion item for a particular subset of rich fashion people, which is not most people. It makes total sense in that context. It doesn't really need to make sense to everybody else.
I really miss touch ID on my phone, all of the swiping is a little cumbersome and sore after a while. Stretching my hand to swipe up down and so forth. I deeply miss the home button.
Your comment just reminded me I can use my Yubikey to unlock my Linux laptop but hadn't set this up yet. I've been typing my password each time like an animal! Thanks. :-)
It's very annoying when I'm using my personal mac mini and have to type my password a billion times, compared to my work macbook which lets me touch id.
But is it annoying enough I'd actually buy one of these hypothetical $50 boxes? IDK.... I've got my two machines on a KVM so I can use my Kinesis keyboard with both of them.
Because if someone is going to all the trouble of getting a non-Apple keyboard, TouchID isn't going to convince them to go back to an Apple keyboard. They're using a different keyboard because things like key travel or ergonomics are a necessity.
Apple could sell a standalone TouchID sensor and charge $50 or $60 for it.
I used to have terrible rsi and switched to a kinesis advantage, if I could get a little touchid pad that i could attach with doublesided tape to it, it would be awesome. As it stands I just type my password a lot.
There is no scalable market. They want to control the hardware for quality and margins. They already sell a keyboard with Touch ID included. Mac accessories are far from their focus area.
If they made something that was just the sensor and logic board that they already manufacture, and sold it for exactly the same US$149 retail price _or more_, there are people in this thread who would buy it.
That’s not enough volume for Apple. This is a company comfortable sitting on $100bn in cash.
If they sold 1 million of those, it’s not worth it for them. Even 10 million units likely isn’t something they’re interested in, and I doubt they’d see anything close to that.
100% - they quit the much more lucrative WiFi business. The funny thing is the post, the likely the most interested party, who already spent $150+effort on a keyboard with TouchID admitted they are willing to spend $50. Literally the most excited customer who pays $150 is expecting a lower price than the keyboard. That simply shows the existence of such product is counterproductive to Apple's total revenue.
So they do a protocol bootstrap to link the sensor to the secure zone in some manner rooted in the trust region CA, and then do what they need without divulging secrets, over the USB bus? ok. that (or a more cogent version) would make sense.
If you just package this button up, as a USB device, it's no different, if it can be bootstrapped as an input device "to" the secure zone.
It's so much more fun to use a Mac without TouchID. The whole Safari password autofill experience is much faster and less annoying when you don't have TouchID (does not ask for any approval while you're logged in/Keychain is unlocked.) If there's a `defaults write` command I can run to emulate my Mac mini experience on a MacBook please let me know.
P.S. Liquid Glass + TouchID approval needed for every Keychain entry == Windows Vista
System Settings > Touch ID & Password > Use Touch ID for autofilling passwords. Turn this off on Macs with Touch ID and Safari will autofill without requiring Touch ID.
Doesn't Apple have a Face ID trick with a paired iPhone to replace Touch ID on macOS?
That is probably why. They prefer you to buy an iPhone than to sell you another gadget.
By the way, I like the idea but for some reason it unpairs randomly and I have to go into settings and re-enable it every couple of months. Really annoying.
I did this recently, though on a much lower budget. You don’t need to buy a new $150 magic keyboard or a 3d printer.
1. Buy an old A2449 keyboard, ideally one with broken keys or battery but working touch ID. I got mine for $45 shipped. Recent listing example: https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=magic+keyboard+a2449&_s...
2. Pry it apart as described in the article (really, there is so much glue) and then use some spare Legos to make an enclosure like this person: https://grepjason.sh/2022/standalone-touch-id-part-2
The standalone Touch ID key button is just under the size of 2x2x1 Lego. I integrated mine into a space diorama set for better vibes: https://imgur.com/a/Im7t9Xb
That’s such a cool Lego diorama. Beautifully done!
I’m on this bandwagon. Have my own keyboard (literally just finished soldering and 3D printing one) and still have to have the Apple keyboard cluttering my desk for biometrics). Have been thinking about this for a while, but it feels incredibly wasteful to spoil a useful piece of equipment just for the sake of getting at that sensor.
It's me, I'm too lazy to modify a keyboard.
I came upon a spare Touch ID keyboard. I just got Command strips and adhered the whole keyboard to the underside of my desk. USB cable is clipped to the desk and goes to my dock. I've got the fingerprint reader right next to my standing desk controls so it's really convenient, and I still get to use my Keychron as my keyboard. The low profile of the Apple keyboard means it doesn't get in the way.
Also every time I need to unlock my Mac or sudo I get to feel like I'm tripping the silent alarm at the bank.
I buy and use the stupid keyboard just for this inconvenience.
Although to be honest not the worst keyboard I own, but not the best, I probably rate it like a 7/10.
It would be a 5/10 if the Bluetooth wasn’t so magically seamless.
The low profile means I can get by without a wrist pillow.
I had a mechanical keyboard before getting the touch id one, and I have to say the touch id one feels much better to type on anyway.
To be fair, your Apple Watch becomes a secure authenticator for your Mac when paired, so Apple probably prefers that you just buy an Apple Watch.
I tried living with just the Apple Watch instead of the Touch ID for a few months to see how reliable it was...
Sometimes it would take a few minutes in the morning before my Mac would even recognize 'hey, there's a watch' (typing in my full password was usually much quicker than waiting for the watch unlock).
Sometimes whatever notification happens that triggers the watch to vibrate and allow the double-squeeze-to-accept action would just... not.
Other times the above notification would pop up about 8-15 seconds after the prompt on the screen.
It was inconsistent enough I got _really_ good at typing my password, since it was normally quicker than waiting on the Apple Watch.
Contrast that with the Touch ID, that's always ready to go.
Doesn’t work for signing in to web sites or apps.
TouchID does more than just unlock the computer. It's usable any time you'd otherwise be prompted for your password.
You can use apple watch for password managers and all macos passwords prompts. Does require an apple silicon mac iirc.
The main downside is it doesn't always recognize and it takes a few seconds to trigger. I'd love a separate touch id. But absent that the watch is quite useful.
Apple Watch requires an iPhone. There are many people who use a Mac but can't stand iOS.
Can the watch authenticate it is who you really are? Asking because I do not know anything about the watches.
The Apple Watch knows that it's you, or at least somebody that knows your PIN.
It's tied to your iPhone and Apple account during initial setup.
Each time you put the Apple Watch on, you have to enter your PIN to unlock it. It can only perform automatic unlocking of your Mac and iPhone in this unlocked state.
The watch does automatic wrist detection and it will automatically RE-lock itself as soon as you take it off.
This is reasonably secure for most needs, though of course you can disable all of this automatic unlocking if you want more security. I forget if it's on by default or not. IIRC I had to enable it but I'm not too sure.
The watch needs to be unlocked either with a PIN code or can be set to unlock on close proximity to iPhone which unlocks via Face ID (or Touch ID, or a passcode). Once it is in an authenticated state it remains unlocked while it is attached to a wrist. I’m not totally clear how it detects when it separates from a wrist (probably a light sensor, heart rate sensor or some heuristic derived from the both - but it’s pretty instantaneous and reliable). “Privileged” actions like payments or escalation prompts still require a double click of the watch’s physical button to confirm, but in this authenticated state it is possible to use the watch to unlock Mac or iPhone based on proximity alone.
It has no concept of “who” you are, only that it got positively authenticated while on a wrist by proximity to your iPhone unlock or a manual correct PIN entry and hasn’t separated from that wrist since.
Great reason to wear the world's ugliest, dorkiest watch.
This is a bit offtopic (but im genuinely curious since i dont use iPhones) but is there any advantage to using faceid over touchid in iphones? This Notch/Dynamic Island looks terrible IMO. Also you can "Authorize" stuff without even having physical access to your device, someone could in theory pick up your phone, make it face towards you, say "LOOK!" and your phone is unlocked. Also i found it far more unreliable to instantly unlock.
A fingerprint reader inside the powerbutton is the way to go IMO, you instantly unlock when u press the power button, you have to actually touch the device to verify and you have no notch.
IIRC just looking at the confirmation if i wanted to buy something in the app store via face id was enough to confirm it.
I believe Apple UX guidelines mandate some sort of explicit confirmation before taking any action after authenticating the user with Face ID, but I've unfortunately also seen many apps not really conform to that.
> IIRC just looking at the confirmation if i wanted to buy something in the app store via face id was enough to confirm it.
Apple themselves are generally good about asking for explicit confirmation, but annoyingly in a way nobody else can replicate: They repurposed double pressing the power button, which is otherwise the Apple Pay secure attention sequence, for exactly one non-Apple-Pay action – buying something in the App Store (or iTunes store etc.)
For me the biggest advantage of faceid is that it isn't bothered by wet fingers or gloves. It works most of the time, where I remember struggling more (though still not often) with touchid. This was with an iphone 8, so I don't know how good they are now.
This. I’d complain more about Face ID if Apple Pay wasn’t the first payment mechanism I’ve used that reliably fulfills the promise of being faster/easier than cash, and Face ID + mechanical button is a big part of that.
Face ID works in the rain
I’ve been griping over this for years now. I get pretty bad RSI so like using a split mechanical keyboard for coding, but I also use long/complex passwords so I like using Touch ID too. It dumbfounds me that you can’t get a Touch ID pad or even a numpad with Touch ID to sit next to aftermarket keyboards.
I bought a used Magic Keyboard on eBay for about $50 to sit within reach of my mechanical keyboard. Considered mounting it under my desk but haven’t bothered yet.
I just bought the same and planning to break out just the touch id to put into a 3D printed enclosure. Expensive hobby…
I actually have a small Magic Keyboard under my desk (in the keyboard tray). It’s positioned, so that I can reach under, without looking, and touch the Touch ID.
I don’t like the rest of the keyboard. I have a big Keychron on top of the desk, that I use for typing.
So this setup is for people who use a Mac, but not a Mac laptop (or who keep the laptop closed and use it exclusively with an external monitor), and who also don't want to buy Apple's keyboard with Touch ID, or an Apple Watch. I gotta say, I don't think that's a huge group of people.
Having a mac laptop doesn't help either if you use it primarily as a secondary monitor, relatively far away from your reach. This is a pretty standard setup in enterprise IMHO.
Then not wanting to wear a watch and wishing for a better keyboard than the Apple one don't sound outlandish either.
apples and oranges (pun!) but my new win11 laptop has the 'faceID' feature and it works well. no idea why apple is so slow on this.
Yeah - I’ve heard people say that the laptop lid (screen) is too thin for the sensors required to do proper FaceID (as opposed to just using the existing optical camera, which is easily fooled). But I don’t understand why the notch part of the screen just couldn’t be a bit deeper (and have a corresponding cutout on the bottom part of the laptop to accomodate it when the lid is closed). Then again, given how often the FaceID on my iPhone fails to recognise me…
trying turning off "require attention" for faceid on you phone..
and yeah, they can kill themselves making the iphone 17 air and a folding phone. but put an existing tech into a laptop? naw. not gonna do it.
How big do you think the market for that would be?
A big proportion of everyone who uses a non-Apple keyboard with their Mac, I'd say. I would absolutely use one with my ergonomic keyboard, TouchID is so much more convenient than constantly typing your password in.
> A big proportion of everyone who uses a non-Apple keyboard with their Mac, I'd say.
If you were to guess how many sales (e.g. in units) they'd make every year, what would you guess?
Hundreds, maybe even thousands.
I jest, but probably the $150 sales of the TouchID keyboard would tank as they are displaced by such a device.
So you’re already starting with a pretty slim market.
Which is small considering the Mac market itself is small relative to the PC market.
From the way the Polishing Cloth, and recently, the iPhone Pocket gets sold out; this will get easily sold.
>iPhone Pocket
That has got to be a joke. It's like they're mocking their customers. I can't stop laughing at the sight of the guy they somehow convinced to model this thing in their promotional photo.
I don’t get the extreme negative reaction here and elsewhere. It’s not for me either, but I also don’t think it looks ridiculous – it just a little bag. There’s a pretty hard limit on how crazy that can look. It’s like the detractors aren’t aware or accepting that there are people with different tastes in the world. Why not just say “it’s not for me”?
It's a trendy fashion item for a particular subset of rich fashion people, which is not most people. It makes total sense in that context. It doesn't really need to make sense to everybody else.
>The design drew inspiration from the concept of “a piece of cloth”
Someone somewhere is taking the mick. I honestly would never be able to see a guy the same way again if I saw him wearing one of these.
Bigger than the market for $200 phone pockets.
I really miss touch ID on my phone, all of the swiping is a little cumbersome and sore after a while. Stretching my hand to swipe up down and so forth. I deeply miss the home button.
same!
or just use a yubikey... it costs ~$50
Your comment just reminded me I can use my Yubikey to unlock my Linux laptop but hadn't set this up yet. I've been typing my password each time like an animal! Thanks. :-)
Doesn’t really work with Apple’s own stuff. At least I never got it to work.
It's very annoying when I'm using my personal mac mini and have to type my password a billion times, compared to my work macbook which lets me touch id.
But is it annoying enough I'd actually buy one of these hypothetical $50 boxes? IDK.... I've got my two machines on a KVM so I can use my Kinesis keyboard with both of them.
Why would you unbundle your bundle and sell the TV channels one by one?
Because if someone is going to all the trouble of getting a non-Apple keyboard, TouchID isn't going to convince them to go back to an Apple keyboard. They're using a different keyboard because things like key travel or ergonomics are a necessity.
Apple could sell a standalone TouchID sensor and charge $50 or $60 for it.
On the same note they should make a Face ID camera like Windows Hello.
I was shocked they didn’t do this when they added the “notch” to MacBooks.
I used to have terrible rsi and switched to a kinesis advantage, if I could get a little touchid pad that i could attach with doublesided tape to it, it would be awesome. As it stands I just type my password a lot.
I stick an Apple Keboard to the underside of my desk
I mean, why would they?
There is no scalable market. They want to control the hardware for quality and margins. They already sell a keyboard with Touch ID included. Mac accessories are far from their focus area.
They don’t because it doesn’t make sense to.
Edit: If you’re downvoting, feel free to say why!
If they made something that was just the sensor and logic board that they already manufacture, and sold it for exactly the same US$149 retail price _or more_, there are people in this thread who would buy it.
That’s not enough volume for Apple. This is a company comfortable sitting on $100bn in cash.
If they sold 1 million of those, it’s not worth it for them. Even 10 million units likely isn’t something they’re interested in, and I doubt they’d see anything close to that.
100% - they quit the much more lucrative WiFi business. The funny thing is the post, the likely the most interested party, who already spent $150+effort on a keyboard with TouchID admitted they are willing to spend $50. Literally the most excited customer who pays $150 is expecting a lower price than the keyboard. That simply shows the existence of such product is counterproductive to Apple's total revenue.
Doesn't this tie back strongly to the secure region logic?
Sensing is one thing. Trusting the sensor input and what it unlocks is another.
No, because they already do it for keyboards. There's zero reason they couldn't make it standalone. It's just the keyboard minus the rest of the keys.
So they do a protocol bootstrap to link the sensor to the secure zone in some manner rooted in the trust region CA, and then do what they need without divulging secrets, over the USB bus? ok. that (or a more cogent version) would make sense.
If you just package this button up, as a USB device, it's no different, if it can be bootstrapped as an input device "to" the secure zone.
It’s more or less an entire apple watch acting as a secure element, or used to be in the older models.
It's so much more fun to use a Mac without TouchID. The whole Safari password autofill experience is much faster and less annoying when you don't have TouchID (does not ask for any approval while you're logged in/Keychain is unlocked.) If there's a `defaults write` command I can run to emulate my Mac mini experience on a MacBook please let me know.
P.S. Liquid Glass + TouchID approval needed for every Keychain entry == Windows Vista
System Settings > Touch ID & Password > Use Touch ID for autofilling passwords. Turn this off on Macs with Touch ID and Safari will autofill without requiring Touch ID.