All the Way Down

(futilitycloset.com)

25 points | by surprisetalk 5 days ago ago

5 comments

  • zkmon an hour ago

    A proof (visual or otherwise) shows "how" some statement is true, as in how it is built by the preceding truths. But I always wanted to know "why" something is true. For example, a biological cell grows and division happens. I could find tons of literature which talks about "how" this happens, but not "why" this happens. What's the motivation or goal? And why that goal is pursued? What is the force behind seeking of that goal?

    • euroderf 12 minutes ago

      You can't anthropomorphise a cell, just like you can't anthropomorphise a lawnmower, or a Larry Ellison. It's just an entity harnessing an entropy gradient.

    • Sharlin an hour ago

      Cells that didn't grow were outcompeted. Cells that didn't replicate were outcompeted.

    • IsTom an hour ago

      > What's the motivation or goal? And why that goal is pursued? What is the force behind seeking of that goal?

      There's no force and there's no goal. These things happen because every moment is a direct consequence of the previous one.

      • lo_zamoyski 13 minutes ago

        > there's no goal

        Try talking about biological operations without invoking “function”. Claiming it’s “convenient” to do so doesn’t cut it: convenient for what?

        Why do acorns become oak trees? They must be causally ordered toward that end. That’s telos.

        Even efficient causality presupposes telos. Why does striking a match against a matchbox consistently produce fire? Because the match has a causal ordering toward that end. Otherwise, you could not explain why fire consistently results as opposed to random things like a flock of seagulls or a BMW 7 Series…or nothing at all.

        Telos is not necessarily a matter of some external purpose or Paley-style watchmaker. That’s mechanistic metaphysics appealing to a watchmaker to explain a purpose things would - under that metaphysics - inherently lack. It is a matter of causal order and directedness.