"He added: "This isn't simply a story about old paper and ink. This was never just about a collectible.
"This is a testament to memory, family and the unexpected ways the past finds its way back to us."
"""
Men going extreme in sentimental when they just sold a $9M collectible :).
I've been pressing minus twice to type a dash on Mac OS for so long I've forgotten when I started. People are pointing it out to me more and more every day. I think my writing is distinct enough from an LLM for most people, but there's certainly a growing contingent that sees a telltale and assumes everything must be AI generated.
Most (all?) keyboards I've used only have a combined hyphen‐minus key (-) which is distinct from a dash (—) and isn't quite a hyphen (‐), so I get why most people don't care. All font dependent as well to add to the fun, and my examples here render differently in the textbox and the comment!
I've been using it as well for a long while (though using option shift -), but I don't care what people think. I won't change my style to appease Temu Sherlocks, or anyone really. How I write doesn't change the value of the message. I invite you to join me in not giving a crap.
Ive had to change how i write so that people don’t think its chat bot. Probably more a me thing but it has sadly ruined my heavy use of m dash and personal style. Small minority i know.
Em dashes are still appropriate for articles, journals, scientific papers, and other academic or professional writing.
In social media comments they came across as pompous even before LLMs and werent particularly appropriate for casual comments.
Though to be fair some people enjoy coming across as pompous and embrace the 'better than the peasants and their lowly minus sign use' attitude. Makes them feel special or as if their writing is markedly better than those without fancy punctuation. (It isnt).
Also yes, im describing two writers i know that are adamant about the em dash being 'a sign of an intellectual wtiter'...they are insufferable pricks.
Time of day definitely plays a part, but there’s also luck/randomness to it.
Even the same time and same day of the week there will never be exactly the same set of users online, and that’s even more true with regard to the users who are choosing to look at HN’s /newest page. So pure luck can determine whether a bunch of comic book lovers see it soon after submission and give it enough votes to get on HN’s front page, or just a bunch of people who think it’s a boring story worth ignoring.
(Personally I thought it sounded like it might have interesting comments worth reading, hence my being here, but I wouldn’t have found it interesting enough to upvote if I were one of the people who saw it on the new submissions page.)
I strongly suspect that a number of HN members have been training LLMs on HN headlines, then using these LLMs to recommend stories and times for submission. Maybe they have even set up the scripts to post submissions automatically.
That’s how we roll.
The results are likely to be that all HN front page stories will eventually be LLM-sourced.
I’m not entirely against that, if the scripts do a good job of selecting stories.
Hacker News is for human beings to share stories they find interesting so that other human beings can discuss those stories to gratify their intellectual curiosity. Automating that process with the goal of maximizing visibility and karma defeats the intended goal of the forum.
Not the actual goal, of course the actual goal of Hacker News for many people is gaming SEO and startup juice.
That said, I don't doubt for a second you're right. Trust a forum of tech bros and nerds to minmax away what little joy there is left to posting here.
I don't think it's that simple. It's my opinion that YC doesn't need much buzz, except within this very community. Since they own the venue, they get the benefit.
I think that a goal is to "cultivate" a startup community. Get nerds and tech bros together, and some synergy is bound to happen.
I'm not trying to start anything up, but I do enjoy the community. I'm not really what YC is looking for, but I suspect they like me, more than an LLM.
I remember a painting was discovered, and there was speculation that it was a da Vinci. It was appraised at $30,000. If it could be proven to be a da Vinci, it would be worth a million.
The salvator mundi was bought at an auction for $1.2k, restored & appraised, then eventually sold for $450 million. The art/collection world is fascinate everything latches onto experts putting their reputation on the line, precious metals and gem stones make way more sense to me as their authenticity is undeniable for now
Do you think a sculpture by a pre-civilization human is worth more than something banged out yesterday?
Heritage has great value. It is one of the few things that cannot be manufactured at will.
Also, since its uniqueness holds its value, its value becomes a "strange attractor". You can put a lot of money into one of these artifacts, fairly sure to get most or more back. Since future buyers will have a similar assurance. So it isn't money thrown away, but money stored in a medium the provides satisfaction and pride.
Not so different from buying real estate in some exclusive area for some crazy price. It really isn't that crazy if you are likely to get your money back later if you want. Likely at a higher amount due to a growing economy pushing prices up.
Crazy would be spending millions on something unique then grinding it up.
Let's say that I gift you a suitcase with ten thousand $100 bills that seem legit, but you're not sure. How much would you be willing to pay for a proof that they are indeed legit?
The attribution to Leonardo is extremely dubious, but the whole thing seems to have been motivated as yet another attempt to wash the reputation of oil theocracies and their monarchs.
My first thought reading the headline was that I would have no idea - could so easily throw away something apparently very valuable in such a scenario just because it's not something I know about.
> their mum had always told them she had an expensive comic collection
And perhaps they would have too, had they not known! (Or the mother not known either.)
Men sounding too sentimental, emotional, girly, too much talking, making lots of facial expressions, trying to please or convince someone,... even though it is not hard it see it's fake. The talk was all about millions, not family silver.
With this kind of case it's impossible to read the comic book, and it doesn't protect it from UV light. I prefer using covers that block UV light. This both protects it and allows you to read it.
It really doesn't make sense to read a 9.0 condition key comic like this. If you really wanted to read it, you would be better off buying a second reading copy in terrible condition.
The cost of the reading copy would end up being less than the negative impact to the condition (and therefore value) of your mint copy from reading it a single time.
In that episode a bored Mr. Burns hires Homer as his „prank monkey”, paying him with loose cash to play cruel pranks on others and humiliate himself. Homer eventually regains his dignity after refusing to ruin the Thanksgiving day parade, even for a million dollars.
And I dare say, someone spending 9 million clams on this comic book is more than likely going to have it sitting in a very UV-protected vault somewhere ..
EDIT: Sorry - I didn’t realize that zipcomic.com is infringing the copyright - adding this note to point that out, but I will maintain my original link as intended. Better to read it on DC Universe Infinite, if you have access, or maybe it’s available through Libby or Hoopla library apps.
I can't understand why the inside covers were scanned by someone, but at crazy low res. Yes the comic is important, but even the ads are fun and a memory blast.
I have a feeling this was scanned a while back, where resolution was a balance between even being able to store it digitally due to size.
Sorry .. I didn’t realize that zipcomic.com was illegal .. I’d assumed the copyright had expired[0], and checking on DC Universe Infinite isn’t possible, since it’s geolocked and I’m not in a country deemed worthy of it. It’s probably available in Libby or Hoopla, legally.
[0] It’s still copyrighted, although it seems that will expire in a decade or so, though. I guess I’ll read it then.
back in my day, we had these buildings called 'libraries' which were filled wall-to-wall with many different types of copyright material. Mainly books, but also comics, newspapers and magazines, that you could legally read and also borrow and take home for a few days, for FREE!!
This might be genuinely the first time I can remember hearing someone say they don’t want to commit piracy. No offence, but who cares?
Especially for something from 1939.
I mean, I care (though not for something whose creators are long since dead and whom you can't support any more). But in general, I certainly try to avoid piracy. I think it's immoral and while I don't think it makes one a bad person (I myself used to pirate a ton of stuff when I had no money to buy it), I do think it's a thing that a good person should strive to avoid.
I'm not sure the reader would be breaking the law. Copyright law is about distribution, so the site would be violating the copyright by making it available. However, reading it is not distribution so simply reading it would not be an issue.
What's missing in the story is when did she buy it and how much she spent... Maybe it was an expensive purchase at that point already, like in 5 digits, and she invested a considerable portion of her savings?
> Their mother had held on to the comic books since she and her brother bought them between the Great Depression and the beginning of World War Two, Heritage said.
It seems unlikely that in that time frame it would have been a 5 digit purchase. It still may have been a significant proportion of liquid cash or net worth though. I think it'd be an interesting detail to have too.
It came out in 1939, which is in that time frame, so she probably bought it at a newsstand for the 10 cent cover price. I could be mistaken, but I don't think there was any real second-hand market for comic books at the time.
I have a b&w photo of my (considerably) older brother, from the early 1960s, reading a pile of comic books a foot high. The only cover visible is Spiderman #4. When I was a kid I used to stare at that picture and dream.
I had a British edition of Star Wars #1 at my parent's house that an English friend gave me when we were kids back in the early 80's. I always wondered what it was worth, as I could only find price guides for the US edition. But when I finally got around to go get it a couple years ago, it was nowhere to be found. So the question became only academic.
It is interesting to me that something like this can have such a high value. It speaks meanly for the our shared cultural global connection when it comes to items like these. For what purpose other than saying: “I have a …” would you buy this? Or is it the believe the price only goes up and it gets bought as an investment? I mean specifically this item with this high price.
I ask because I think the price is only as high if the item in question is still cultural relevant. So I assume you buy it and start shadow produce new Superman projects :)
I ask because I think the price is only as high if the item in question is still cultural relevant.
Les Poseuses Ensemble by Georges Seurat was sold for $149m. Very few people have heard of it, care about it, or even like it considering it's pointillism which no one buys modern versions of. The world of art and collectables is entirely rich people speculating that the price (not value) will go up in the future.
Ah damn. I forgot to add in the whole world of art collection which of course this item belongs in as well. Still baffles me how we humans can put such high prices on some items
Different tax loopholes depending on region etc, but basically like this:
I’m a billionaire earning $100M this year.
I owe $40M as taxes for that. (Too much!)
I find a dumb banana painting by a starving artist.
I buy it from him for $1000.
I wait 6 months.
I go to a museum to get it appraised by “professionals”.
I pay the professional appraiser’s wife $50K as a gift.
The appraiser says the painting is now worth $30M!
Wow that’s awesome, I have such a keen eye for art.
You know what, I’m gonna donate this painting to a museum instead because I’m such a patron of art and culture.
Oh, look at that, I get a tax rebate for the value of my donated painting ($30M)
Now I only have to pay $40M - $30M = $10M in taxes on my $100M income.
There’s more nuance to it in practice, but that’s the gist of it.
-----
Edit: For some reason I can't reply to the comments below so I'm gonna do it here.
> That wouldn't explain the price here, since in your scam the whole idea is to buy cheap and donate dear. not buy for 139M
Now we're getting in the details but it's very suspicious for an appraiser to appraise a work of art from an unknown artist at millions. But it's not that suspicious if they take Van Gogh's Starry Night which was previously appraised at $500M to now be valued at $1B. this way the deca-billionaire still gets to save his taxes while appraiser avoids suspicion.
> As far as I know, that's not how taxes work. You can't get a rebate for the amount of taxes you would have paid, you can get a deduction for the amount of money you made.
There are a lot of loopholes in the complicated tax system for the ultra-wealthy, not for us. This video (still a simple explanation in an animated way) covers a few more of them: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHy07B-UHkE
As far as I know, that's not how taxes work. You can't get a rebate for the amount of taxes you would have paid, you can get a deduction for the amount of money you made.
So:
You made $100M owe $40M in taxes.
Your painting is worth $30M! You have such a keen eye for art.
Now you made $130M and owe $50M in taxes.
You donate the painting, you're back at having made $100M and owing $40M.
Otherwise we'd all choose not to pay tax and donate our tax money to charitable institutions instead.
I’m pretty sure he’s right in how taxes work. There’s no moment where the value of the painting is realized but you are allowed to deduct the FMV if you make enough and if the donation goes to the charity’s exempt use (which it will if it’s a museum or whatever).
So if you buy painting for a dollar and wait a year then next year you make $3m and the painting is now worth $1m then if you donate it, your AGI is reduced to $3m-min($1m, 30% of income) = $3m-$900k.
You don’t count the appreciation of the painting as income. You don’t even count it as LTCG if you don’t sell it.
I think it also applies to stock option awards. When the startup I was at was acquired some people were talking about it.
Dunno why I can't reply to your other comment explaining what you mean but hot damn. False evaluation of a cheap painting to save on taxes? That's mental.
"only for thing people would legitimately like to have."
Whilst that may be true for the most part, much of the art dealt nowadays is never displayed, just stored somewhere incredibly tax efficient until it's value has gone up enough to warrant selling.
The price is determined by the depths of pockets of buyers. High price for such items means only that too many stupid people have too much money in our time.
Does anyone know why this particular issue is so valuable? I'm assuming it's some mix of investment, timing, sentimental value, and rarity. But which ones particularly?
the article explicitly states that this original Superman #1 is the highest graded copy of all-time
it’s valuable for the same reason the mona lisa is valuable. it’s iconic, it is a singular object, it is one of a kind, it is a stable investment vehicle. they ain’t making more of them.
Stable investment vehicle I am not so sure. I think an index fund or even gold will outperform it over 100 years. Superman comics rely on people giving a shit about superman which will fade over time. Superman isnt a big thing for gen z for example.
I always wonder exactly how difficult it would be to get the paper, ink, staples, etc exactly right. I'm sure it would be difficult but 9m is a big payoff if you can.
I assume the content isn't as important as the fact the object itself is the original. Original paper, original ink, original release date. The object itself comes from the original factory, survived through time etc. I would expect some tests will verify it uses the correct paper, has the signs of age, etc.
Even if you could duplicate it down to the molecule I would assume it wouldn't hold the same value since it doesn't have the same history. Assuming you'd want to sell it in good faith as a replica.
An earlier submission of the auction house source had some details like it's one of only seven copies that have a grading score over 6.0 (it scored a record 9.0), and one of only 100 ever of any quality ever auctioned there.
What are the odds it's a forgery? Couldn't find any details on their grading method and how it was "positively identified to originate from the first print run of the issue" [0].
For how they could tell it was from the first run, it says in the article you referenced:
> For decades, Allen says, nobody knew of a way to distinguish which copies came from that initial run. Then a grader noticed a key difference in a small in-house promotional spot advertising the upcoming Action Comics No. 14. In the first run, those ads included text reading “On sale June 2nd.” Subsequent print runs had updated it to “Now on sale.”
I know nothing of this world of comics, I guess because it is essentially part of the US culture and did not penetrate much of Europe.
There has been a number of investigative shows arguing the valuation of collectibles in general (comics included) is largely driven by money laundering.
Is it some kind of conspiracy theory of is this legit ?
As usual, generalising all of Europe based on your individual country is a mistake as there are some Euro counties where comics are quite popular. France, Belgium, Italy and the UK all have thriving native comic book industries, and I have Swedish friends who tell me Donald Duck comics are very popular there.
I imagine a pristine 1st edition Tintin or Asterix would be quite valuable.
There's this new sentiment in the society of finding something rare with high value to flip it and make a bank. But the way it's being pursued... It just doesn't feel right.
It almost feels like it's gambling, because it's a sentiment that leaks into modern collectibles, like card games.
I'm not saying people don't value collectibles, or value nostalgia, or that some of these things should be limited to niches - the reality is that I can't quite put it into words, but a lot of it seems propped up... Or it's a false game everyone is knowingly playing, like a big Ponzi scheme.
These superman copies, or the first editions of mtg, or even some modern vintage games, were never intended to be collectibles - people used them and played with them, created memories, and the production runs were really limited in comparison to modern day production runs, that make those items actually rare... Like few hundreds or thousands have survived in good condition - which is an achievement for toys, games and comics that get used a lot.
Nowadays people buy stuff with high production runs, they never even create memories with the stuff... They slab stuff into a "hermetic" container right away, and get it graded...
It just feels fake.
Again I don't doubt people see value in this stuff, I just feel like they're valuing for the wrong reasons, and I can't wrap my head around how is that even sustainable.
Who is going to value the memory of "remember when I bought 5 booster boxes and pulled card X from the pack, with gloves on, put it in a sleeve and sent it to be graded straight away? Now those were the days!"
It's like people want to compress the randomness of time and social behavior into a predictable cicle of months, with minimal effort and to extract the maximum value out of it.
"He added: "This isn't simply a story about old paper and ink. This was never just about a collectible.
"This is a testament to memory, family and the unexpected ways the past finds its way back to us." """ Men going extreme in sentimental when they just sold a $9M collectible :).
He added: “This isn’t simply a blurb of words and phrases. This is not just a stock statement from an LLM.
This is a testament to outsourcing, laziness and the unexpected ways technology finds ways to change every press release.”
All it needed was the emdash
I've been pressing minus twice to type a dash on Mac OS for so long I've forgotten when I started. People are pointing it out to me more and more every day. I think my writing is distinct enough from an LLM for most people, but there's certainly a growing contingent that sees a telltale and assumes everything must be AI generated.
Most (all?) keyboards I've used only have a combined hyphen‐minus key (-) which is distinct from a dash (—) and isn't quite a hyphen (‐), so I get why most people don't care. All font dependent as well to add to the fun, and my examples here render differently in the textbox and the comment!
I've been using it as well for a long while (though using option shift -), but I don't care what people think. I won't change my style to appease Temu Sherlocks, or anyone really. How I write doesn't change the value of the message. I invite you to join me in not giving a crap.
It wasn't clear from my comment, but I absolutely don't care and I'm going to keep typing how I type.
Ive had to change how i write so that people don’t think its chat bot. Probably more a me thing but it has sadly ruined my heavy use of m dash and personal style. Small minority i know.
I wouldn't bother. Who gives a flying fuck. The only people I know talking about it aren't particularly good at writing anyway.
Yeah it actually saddens me a little, if using good and correct typography will be avoided because of LLM.
Em dashes are still appropriate for articles, journals, scientific papers, and other academic or professional writing.
In social media comments they came across as pompous even before LLMs and werent particularly appropriate for casual comments.
Though to be fair some people enjoy coming across as pompous and embrace the 'better than the peasants and their lowly minus sign use' attitude. Makes them feel special or as if their writing is markedly better than those without fancy punctuation. (It isnt).
Also yes, im describing two writers i know that are adamant about the em dash being 'a sign of an intellectual wtiter'...they are insufferable pricks.
Why this matters: <bullet point list>.
And here's the kicker:
Here's why this works:
You're absolutely right!
Reminded me of an exchange I saw decades ago in some TV show or movie (I forget where it was from but it stayed with me):
Person A: “We’re going to be so rich.”
Person B: “How many times do I have to tell you? It’s not about the money.”
Person A: “It’s about all the things we’ll be able to buy with it.”
Person B: “Exactly.”
Yea, would he have said the same for some old worthless TV program magazine?
Did Silicon Valley VCs give that comic its valuation?
gotta add those "values" so the bidder got worth its money
Found a bit more on the story behind this copy
https://www.ha.com/heritage-auctions-press-releases-and-news...
Funny how the time of day affects the visibility of posting on HN https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46002609 :)
Time of day definitely plays a part, but there’s also luck/randomness to it.
Even the same time and same day of the week there will never be exactly the same set of users online, and that’s even more true with regard to the users who are choosing to look at HN’s /newest page. So pure luck can determine whether a bunch of comic book lovers see it soon after submission and give it enough votes to get on HN’s front page, or just a bunch of people who think it’s a boring story worth ignoring.
(Personally I thought it sounded like it might have interesting comments worth reading, hence my being here, but I wouldn’t have found it interesting enough to upvote if I were one of the people who saw it on the new submissions page.)
I strongly suspect that a number of HN members have been training LLMs on HN headlines, then using these LLMs to recommend stories and times for submission. Maybe they have even set up the scripts to post submissions automatically.
That’s how we roll.
The results are likely to be that all HN front page stories will eventually be LLM-sourced.
I’m not entirely against that, if the scripts do a good job of selecting stories.
Hacker News is for human beings to share stories they find interesting so that other human beings can discuss those stories to gratify their intellectual curiosity. Automating that process with the goal of maximizing visibility and karma defeats the intended goal of the forum.
Not the actual goal, of course the actual goal of Hacker News for many people is gaming SEO and startup juice.
That said, I don't doubt for a second you're right. Trust a forum of tech bros and nerds to minmax away what little joy there is left to posting here.
The actual actual goal is to promote Ycombinator to make money for pg.
I don't think it's that simple. It's my opinion that YC doesn't need much buzz, except within this very community. Since they own the venue, they get the benefit.
I think that a goal is to "cultivate" a startup community. Get nerds and tech bros together, and some synergy is bound to happen.
I'm not trying to start anything up, but I do enjoy the community. I'm not really what YC is looking for, but I suspect they like me, more than an LLM.
Sadly, I agree.
I find most of the value, here, in the community commentary, though.
It’s fairly remarkable.
I do think people are trying to LLM that, as well, but not as successfully.
Not sure why I find this surprising, but this comic is worth twice as much as Napoleon's diamond encrusted brooch recently sold for [1]
[1] https://www.nytimes.com/2025/11/14/world/europe/napoleon-dia...
I remember a painting was discovered, and there was speculation that it was a da Vinci. It was appraised at $30,000. If it could be proven to be a da Vinci, it would be worth a million.
For the same item.
Crazy.
The salvator mundi was bought at an auction for $1.2k, restored & appraised, then eventually sold for $450 million. The art/collection world is fascinate everything latches onto experts putting their reputation on the line, precious metals and gem stones make way more sense to me as their authenticity is undeniable for now
Do you think a sculpture by a pre-civilization human is worth more than something banged out yesterday?
Heritage has great value. It is one of the few things that cannot be manufactured at will.
Also, since its uniqueness holds its value, its value becomes a "strange attractor". You can put a lot of money into one of these artifacts, fairly sure to get most or more back. Since future buyers will have a similar assurance. So it isn't money thrown away, but money stored in a medium the provides satisfaction and pride.
Not so different from buying real estate in some exclusive area for some crazy price. It really isn't that crazy if you are likely to get your money back later if you want. Likely at a higher amount due to a growing economy pushing prices up.
Crazy would be spending millions on something unique then grinding it up.
This is all a great way of describing why art works as a money laundering or tax evasion scheme.
Art as a tool for storing Mana: https://medium.com/luminasticity/art-as-a-tool-for-storing-m...
Imagine some rich asshat at a pretentious cocktail party going
"I have a da Vinci at home."
Vs
(pointing at a picture on the phone) "I have this painting at home"
Which one impresses the other rich asshats more? Maybe even millions of dollars worth more.
Let's say that I gift you a suitcase with ten thousand $100 bills that seem legit, but you're not sure. How much would you be willing to pay for a proof that they are indeed legit?
Maybe not the one you're thinking, but this is notable recent case: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salvator_Mundi_(Leonardo)
The attribution to Leonardo is extremely dubious, but the whole thing seems to have been motivated as yet another attempt to wash the reputation of oil theocracies and their monarchs.
My first thought reading the headline was that I would have no idea - could so easily throw away something apparently very valuable in such a scenario just because it's not something I know about.
> their mum had always told them she had an expensive comic collection
And perhaps they would have too, had they not known! (Or the mother not known either.)
>> This is a testament to memory, family and the unexpected ways the past finds its way back to us
If that was a true feeling, then they wouldn't sell it away as soon as they find it, as if it is something they must dispose off immediately.
Sales culture is turning all men into drama queens.
I agreed with the first sentence, but then the second one had me scratching my head. Could you clarify/expand on what you’re saying there?
>> expand on "men turning into drama queens"
Men sounding too sentimental, emotional, girly, too much talking, making lots of facial expressions, trying to please or convince someone,... even though it is not hard it see it's fake. The talk was all about millions, not family silver.
With this kind of case it's impossible to read the comic book, and it doesn't protect it from UV light. I prefer using covers that block UV light. This both protects it and allows you to read it.
It really doesn't make sense to read a 9.0 condition key comic like this. If you really wanted to read it, you would be better off buying a second reading copy in terrible condition.
The cost of the reading copy would end up being less than the negative impact to the condition (and therefore value) of your mint copy from reading it a single time.
Makes me think of this Simpsons episode:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ii4Msc9ESEw
I was thinking of the "perma-mint condition" issue of Radioactive Man. Spilled drinks fly off harmlessly onto lesser comics: https://youtube.com/watch?v=Mqe21Up4Vmo&t=14s
Funny that the fictitious comic is spilling into a “lesser” real comic by Matt Groening (creator of the Simpsons).
Why did he do that?
In that episode a bored Mr. Burns hires Homer as his „prank monkey”, paying him with loose cash to play cruel pranks on others and humiliate himself. Homer eventually regains his dignity after refusing to ruin the Thanksgiving day parade, even for a million dollars.
Ahh thank you.
You can read it (illegally) here:
https://www.zipcomic.com/superman-1939-issue-1
And I dare say, someone spending 9 million clams on this comic book is more than likely going to have it sitting in a very UV-protected vault somewhere ..
EDIT: Sorry - I didn’t realize that zipcomic.com is infringing the copyright - adding this note to point that out, but I will maintain my original link as intended. Better to read it on DC Universe Infinite, if you have access, or maybe it’s available through Libby or Hoopla library apps.
I can't understand why the inside covers were scanned by someone, but at crazy low res. Yes the comic is important, but even the ads are fun and a memory blast.
I have a feeling this was scanned a while back, where resolution was a balance between even being able to store it digitally due to size.
I assume it's just an inflation robust store of value.
If I was lucky enough to have to defend say a billion dollars from diluting over decades, a priceless comic sounds like a decent acquisition
My impression was the comic was worth so much because the widely available digital version loses something.
https://comicbookplus.com would have it legally as the Copyright expired long ago.
What makes you think the copyright has expired?
Yeah
Until they pass away and somebody finds it then puts it for sale, and so on...
Not everyone wants to break the law to read things from their collection. Also the physical experience of reading is much different than digital.
While you could store your collectable in a vault, many people enjoy displaying their collectables.
Sorry .. I didn’t realize that zipcomic.com was illegal .. I’d assumed the copyright had expired[0], and checking on DC Universe Infinite isn’t possible, since it’s geolocked and I’m not in a country deemed worthy of it. It’s probably available in Libby or Hoopla, legally.
[0] It’s still copyrighted, although it seems that will expire in a decade or so, though. I guess I’ll read it then.
back in my day, we had these buildings called 'libraries' which were filled wall-to-wall with many different types of copyright material. Mainly books, but also comics, newspapers and magazines, that you could legally read and also borrow and take home for a few days, for FREE!!
Now you’re just making stuff up.
This might be genuinely the first time I can remember hearing someone say they don’t want to commit piracy. No offence, but who cares? Especially for something from 1939.
I mean, I care (though not for something whose creators are long since dead and whom you can't support any more). But in general, I certainly try to avoid piracy. I think it's immoral and while I don't think it makes one a bad person (I myself used to pirate a ton of stuff when I had no money to buy it), I do think it's a thing that a good person should strive to avoid.
This comic is older than most (all?) HN users.
I'm not sure the reader would be breaking the law. Copyright law is about distribution, so the site would be violating the copyright by making it available. However, reading it is not distribution so simply reading it would not be an issue.
Not-for-profit copyright infringement on this scale is generally a tort and not a criminal act.
It’s a bit hyperbolic. It’s a webpage of a comic book.
You’re better off just getting UV protective film on your windows.
The mother knew the potential value when she bought it, interestingly enough. Good for her!
What's missing in the story is when did she buy it and how much she spent... Maybe it was an expensive purchase at that point already, like in 5 digits, and she invested a considerable portion of her savings?
> Their mother had held on to the comic books since she and her brother bought them between the Great Depression and the beginning of World War Two, Heritage said.
It seems unlikely that in that time frame it would have been a 5 digit purchase. It still may have been a significant proportion of liquid cash or net worth though. I think it'd be an interesting detail to have too.
It came out in 1939, which is in that time frame, so she probably bought it at a newsstand for the 10 cent cover price. I could be mistaken, but I don't think there was any real second-hand market for comic books at the time.
I have a b&w photo of my (considerably) older brother, from the early 1960s, reading a pile of comic books a foot high. The only cover visible is Spiderman #4. When I was a kid I used to stare at that picture and dream.
Needless to say, I kept all my old comics.
I had a British edition of Star Wars #1 at my parent's house that an English friend gave me when we were kids back in the early 80's. I always wondered what it was worth, as I could only find price guides for the US edition. But when I finally got around to go get it a couple years ago, it was nowhere to be found. So the question became only academic.
It is interesting to me that something like this can have such a high value. It speaks meanly for the our shared cultural global connection when it comes to items like these. For what purpose other than saying: “I have a …” would you buy this? Or is it the believe the price only goes up and it gets bought as an investment? I mean specifically this item with this high price. I ask because I think the price is only as high if the item in question is still cultural relevant. So I assume you buy it and start shadow produce new Superman projects :)
I ask because I think the price is only as high if the item in question is still cultural relevant.
Les Poseuses Ensemble by Georges Seurat was sold for $149m. Very few people have heard of it, care about it, or even like it considering it's pointillism which no one buys modern versions of. The world of art and collectables is entirely rich people speculating that the price (not value) will go up in the future.
Surely some of it is also the simple fact of... these people are very rich and want some art they enjoy.
The same way a regular person might buy an autographed photo of a celebrity they like or something like that.
Ah damn. I forgot to add in the whole world of art collection which of course this item belongs in as well. Still baffles me how we humans can put such high prices on some items
It’s mostly money laundering and loan collateral
Don’t forget the tax savings.
What tax savings? How does that work?
Different tax loopholes depending on region etc, but basically like this:
I’m a billionaire earning $100M this year.
I owe $40M as taxes for that. (Too much!)
I find a dumb banana painting by a starving artist.
I buy it from him for $1000.
I wait 6 months.
I go to a museum to get it appraised by “professionals”.
I pay the professional appraiser’s wife $50K as a gift.
The appraiser says the painting is now worth $30M!
Wow that’s awesome, I have such a keen eye for art.
You know what, I’m gonna donate this painting to a museum instead because I’m such a patron of art and culture.
Oh, look at that, I get a tax rebate for the value of my donated painting ($30M)
Now I only have to pay $40M - $30M = $10M in taxes on my $100M income.
There’s more nuance to it in practice, but that’s the gist of it.
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Edit: For some reason I can't reply to the comments below so I'm gonna do it here.
> That wouldn't explain the price here, since in your scam the whole idea is to buy cheap and donate dear. not buy for 139M
Now we're getting in the details but it's very suspicious for an appraiser to appraise a work of art from an unknown artist at millions. But it's not that suspicious if they take Van Gogh's Starry Night which was previously appraised at $500M to now be valued at $1B. this way the deca-billionaire still gets to save his taxes while appraiser avoids suspicion.
> As far as I know, that's not how taxes work. You can't get a rebate for the amount of taxes you would have paid, you can get a deduction for the amount of money you made.
There are a lot of loopholes in the complicated tax system for the ultra-wealthy, not for us. This video (still a simple explanation in an animated way) covers a few more of them: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHy07B-UHkE
As far as I know, that's not how taxes work. You can't get a rebate for the amount of taxes you would have paid, you can get a deduction for the amount of money you made.
So:
You made $100M owe $40M in taxes.
Your painting is worth $30M! You have such a keen eye for art.
Now you made $130M and owe $50M in taxes.
You donate the painting, you're back at having made $100M and owing $40M.
Otherwise we'd all choose not to pay tax and donate our tax money to charitable institutions instead.
I’m pretty sure he’s right in how taxes work. There’s no moment where the value of the painting is realized but you are allowed to deduct the FMV if you make enough and if the donation goes to the charity’s exempt use (which it will if it’s a museum or whatever).
So if you buy painting for a dollar and wait a year then next year you make $3m and the painting is now worth $1m then if you donate it, your AGI is reduced to $3m-min($1m, 30% of income) = $3m-$900k.
You don’t count the appreciation of the painting as income. You don’t even count it as LTCG if you don’t sell it.
I think it also applies to stock option awards. When the startup I was at was acquired some people were talking about it.
That wouldn't explain the price here, since in your scam the whole idea is to buy cheap and donate dear. not buy for 139M
Your scheme involves getting a fake appraisal for a value higher than the market price. But this does not explain high prices at an auction.
Dunno why I can't reply to your other comment explaining what you mean but hot damn. False evaluation of a cheap painting to save on taxes? That's mental.
I would say something like this is an analog version of nowadays crypto currency.
It is, but only for thing people would legitimately like to have.
The entire NFT thing would work if it were restricted to things people want, even if that only amounts to bragging rights.
Somewhere along the way people lost track of the fact that being able to trade something doesn't denote value in itself
"only for thing people would legitimately like to have."
Whilst that may be true for the most part, much of the art dealt nowadays is never displayed, just stored somewhere incredibly tax efficient until it's value has gone up enough to warrant selling.
https://theswisstimes.ch/unlocking-the-secrets-of-the-geneva...
Analogue NFT
Really? After all the bogus valuations on HN, this one surprised you
The price is determined by the depths of pockets of buyers. High price for such items means only that too many stupid people have too much money in our time.
Does anyone know why this particular issue is so valuable? I'm assuming it's some mix of investment, timing, sentimental value, and rarity. But which ones particularly?
the article explicitly states that this original Superman #1 is the highest graded copy of all-time
it’s valuable for the same reason the mona lisa is valuable. it’s iconic, it is a singular object, it is one of a kind, it is a stable investment vehicle. they ain’t making more of them.
Stable investment vehicle I am not so sure. I think an index fund or even gold will outperform it over 100 years. Superman comics rely on people giving a shit about superman which will fade over time. Superman isnt a big thing for gen z for example.
Who knows, but some comic books characters like Batman and Spider-man are bigger that ever, while others like Tarzan is losing relevance.
> they ain’t making more of them.
I always wonder exactly how difficult it would be to get the paper, ink, staples, etc exactly right. I'm sure it would be difficult but 9m is a big payoff if you can.
I assume the content isn't as important as the fact the object itself is the original. Original paper, original ink, original release date. The object itself comes from the original factory, survived through time etc. I would expect some tests will verify it uses the correct paper, has the signs of age, etc.
Even if you could duplicate it down to the molecule I would assume it wouldn't hold the same value since it doesn't have the same history. Assuming you'd want to sell it in good faith as a replica.
If you’re going to get into forgery of historical memorabilia there’s probably easier targets than Superman comic books, no?
An earlier submission of the auction house source had some details like it's one of only seven copies that have a grading score over 6.0 (it scored a record 9.0), and one of only 100 ever of any quality ever auctioned there.
Your question is why is issue #1 of a very old and popular thing valuable?
What are the odds it's a forgery? Couldn't find any details on their grading method and how it was "positively identified to originate from the first print run of the issue" [0].
[0] https://www.ha.com/heritage-auctions-press-releases-and-news...
For how they could tell it was from the first run, it says in the article you referenced:
> For decades, Allen says, nobody knew of a way to distinguish which copies came from that initial run. Then a grader noticed a key difference in a small in-house promotional spot advertising the upcoming Action Comics No. 14. In the first run, those ads included text reading “On sale June 2nd.” Subsequent print runs had updated it to “Now on sale.”
Definitely not. It's CGC graded, and you can bet only their top graders would be involved. https://www.cgccomics.com/news/article/14678/superman-herita...
This is the epitome of why people go to yard sales
Sounds like some sort of scam to me. The item is probably correct but the price seems way too high.
Why? Similar comics have been sold for upwards of 6 mill, and this one is better graded.
A shame to hear that heritage auctions were the ones to handle this
Why do you say that? I'm unfamiliar with Heritage Auctions.
Allegations they operated a pump and dump in conjunction with Wata games, a "grading" company.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heritage_Auctions#Controversie...
I can hear Nic Cage get out his credit card from 1000 miles away to buy it.
I know nothing of this world of comics, I guess because it is essentially part of the US culture and did not penetrate much of Europe.
There has been a number of investigative shows arguing the valuation of collectibles in general (comics included) is largely driven by money laundering.
Is it some kind of conspiracy theory of is this legit ?
As usual, generalising all of Europe based on your individual country is a mistake as there are some Euro counties where comics are quite popular. France, Belgium, Italy and the UK all have thriving native comic book industries, and I have Swedish friends who tell me Donald Duck comics are very popular there.
I imagine a pristine 1st edition Tintin or Asterix would be quite valuable.
I remember as a kid that Superman #1 was going for thousands of dollars and we just oohed and aahed.
its insane that quality is still that good, I have a comic book that already "rotten" despite have newer age
The photo (scan?) of it looks like it could've been printed yesterday. Quite amazing that it's survived in such good quality.
There's this new sentiment in the society of finding something rare with high value to flip it and make a bank. But the way it's being pursued... It just doesn't feel right.
It almost feels like it's gambling, because it's a sentiment that leaks into modern collectibles, like card games.
I'm not saying people don't value collectibles, or value nostalgia, or that some of these things should be limited to niches - the reality is that I can't quite put it into words, but a lot of it seems propped up... Or it's a false game everyone is knowingly playing, like a big Ponzi scheme.
These superman copies, or the first editions of mtg, or even some modern vintage games, were never intended to be collectibles - people used them and played with them, created memories, and the production runs were really limited in comparison to modern day production runs, that make those items actually rare... Like few hundreds or thousands have survived in good condition - which is an achievement for toys, games and comics that get used a lot.
Nowadays people buy stuff with high production runs, they never even create memories with the stuff... They slab stuff into a "hermetic" container right away, and get it graded...
It just feels fake.
Again I don't doubt people see value in this stuff, I just feel like they're valuing for the wrong reasons, and I can't wrap my head around how is that even sustainable.
Who is going to value the memory of "remember when I bought 5 booster boxes and pulled card X from the pack, with gloves on, put it in a sleeve and sent it to be graded straight away? Now those were the days!"
It's like people want to compress the randomness of time and social behavior into a predictable cicle of months, with minimal effort and to extract the maximum value out of it.
Am I overthinking this?