The least of its problems IMO, when the Cybertruck looks like it was designed to inflict maximum harm to pedestrians in a crash. The fact that such an obviously destructive design is legal on public roads should be setting off alarm bells at the USDOT and NHTSA.
It looks like it's designed to inflict maximum harm, but it seems that it's actually less likely to kill you than an F-150 or Silverado or Ram. It has a lower hood height which is the aspect that has been hypothesized to be the reason that trucks kill pedestrians at a much greater rate than cars.
I'm not trying to condone Cybertruck here. I hope the Cybertruck becomes a rallying cry to mandate pedestrian safety in the US, and that mandate becomes data driven and indicts F-150 et al.
Cybertruck is a great case study in how people confuse form for function.
In a world where technology is advancing exponentially, aesthetics increasingly offer a poor signal for performance, and only those who obsessively look under the hood and disregard form will see through it all.
Mechanically sure, but I still feel way safer when a Tesla (of any kind) is approaching me as a pedestrian or bicyclist than any other vehicle (except maybe Waymo) because I know they will alert the driver and brake if necessary. Any other car, especially older trucks, I'm quite afraid of, based on experience.
> because I know they will alert the driver and brake if necessary.
This is not necessarily accurate.
https://x.com/TaylorOgan/status/1681240264554209281 ("Warning: Graphic; Last month, a 76-year-old pedestrian was tragically mowed down by a Tesla Model S in Brooklyn, NY. Both of his legs were torn off, according to witnesses. New data from the NHTSA says the Tesla was engaged on Autopilot/Full Self-Driving mode.")
I own several Teslas, would not trust them to stop for a pedestrian while in any driver assist mode. It may work, but if you rely on it, be prepared for consequences when it fails, as you are the responsible party when it fails.
You would need to compare the data against the data of non-smart trucks. I'm guessing it's an order of magnitude more dangerous to be a pedestrian around a normal truck.
Automatic emergency braking is a standard feature on many new cars, and will be mandatory for all new passenger cars and light trucks in the U.S. by September 2029. I am open to the assertion that Tesla's AEB, when scoped to pedestrian scenarios, is superior to other AEB systems, but this assertion requires data and evidence for support.
Tesla is currently renting vehicles for $60/day due to diminished demand; if one would like to test this personally, the cost is minimal. Avoid bodily injury whenever possible during testing.
Edit: @romaaeterna Are you willing to stand in front of it while it is at speed without a safety driver? I am trying to reconcile the mental model with risk appetite and potential gaps between priors and current state.
In my experience, Tesla drivers are some of the worst drivers on the road. They seem to pay the least attention to what's going on around them and are the most likely to pay fast and loose with the rules of the road. I don't know what's to account for this. There has been at least one study out of Berkeley that suggests that people who drive more expensive cars are more likely to break the rules of the road. It's possible that (at least here in Seattle), this is more likely to be the driver's first car since many people driving them are highly paid tech workers who often hail from others countries and who may not have as good of a grasp of driving in the US. Or it may be that this is enabled by autopilot itself (if your car is taking care of the safety you don't have to pay as much attention).
The last reason is the biggest imo. Previously if you didn't pay attention you would crash relatively often. Now you aren't punished in the same way. In the same way spell check made us worse spellers. You aren't required to pay attention to detail, so you never develop that skill.
> There has been at least one study out of Berkeley that suggests that people who drive more expensive cars are more likely to break the rules of the road.
In Germany, we have a joke - BMWs don't need turn signal indicators, they have built-in precedence that comes with paying the money one needs to have to afford a BMW.
Could you give me some numbers about deaths caused by Tesla versus other brands per mile driven? It seems to be very difficult to find enough information to draw any conclusions.
Trucks in general are awful for pedestrians and other motorists, but the Cybertruck is made specifically of sharp angles that will rip and tear more than a big flat vertical wall running into you.
Good luck with that. This is the CEOs pet project, who spent 3mo openly and directly dismantling regulatory groups in the U.S. while at the same time threatening to pull out of key defense and aerospace initiatives if the poor guy didn’t get his way
Even presuming pieces weren't falling off, every time I see one of these my first thought is how did this pass safety standards (e.g. the sharp corners/blades/edges; pedestrian-strike setups).
Now add on flying corners/blades/edges ... even less enthused.
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I finally drove in a Rivian — and while I prefer the hybrid drivetrains — it was exceptionally nice. As an American, I can't wait for BYD to offer test drives here.
In the US, the safety standards consider only the occupants of the car. The safety of pedestrians, cyclists, and occupants of other cars are not considered. This was looking like it would change but with the current administration I doubt it.
The Cybertruck is not legal in Europe and anywhere else with actual safety standards.
> NHTSA conducts frontal, side and rollover tests because these types account for the majority of crashes on America's roadways.
> IIHS tests evaluate two aspects of safety: crashworthiness — how well a vehicle protects its occupants in a crash — and crash avoidance and mitigation — technology that can prevent a crash or lessen its severity.
> As well as assessing how well cars protect their occupants, Euro NCAP tests how well they protect those vulnerable road users – pedestrians and cyclists – with whom they might collide.
BYD is overhyped in the US for some reason. In the countries where they are available, they are considered decent budget vehicles. There's a reason why the Model Y is still the best seller in China.
> every time I see one of these my first thought is
Even ignoring the parts falling off & the safety, every time I see one of these my first thought is "who saw a picture of this and said 'yep, that's what I want'"
Three years, unless something happens to Trump or he resigns or is impeached and removed. This is still the first of his four years in office, though it feels like longer.
Fair point, I'd say probably not until early next decade unless something substantial changes politically in the US. By that point, the EV demand in the US will probably be high enough to force allowing imports unless domestic manufacturers have finally figured out how to make affordable EVs.
Canada's auto industry is tied to the US's. As much as BYD coming to the US would hurt all of North America's auto industry. BYD coming to Canada would also hurt the auto industry. They are just too interconnected.
As is Mexico's, but BYD is available there — as well in a number of other North American countries.
> BYD coming to Canada would also hurt the auto industry.
To be fair, it is already hurting from the attacks launched by the USA. Canada has been considering partnering with China instead as a result of this. BYD is looking more and more realistic.
Because the individual angles and feature sizes and locations aren't all that egregious when compared to everything else you find on modern pickups. Look at the current Tundra let alone a Chevy 2500. What's different is the complete lack of other styling features to soften the look. Of course it wouldn't pass safety in Europe, but neither would the other stuff mentioned.
I tried with much effort to import a BYD, and the federal government slowed me down every step of the way to where I gave up around regime change last November. If you have a way I can buy a BYD today, regardless of cost, in the US, I would be interested.
How far did you get, and what do you mean "regardless of cost"? The big issue is going to be getting the vehicle to pass FMVSS, and it looks like no one has successfully done it. Have you talked to an RI to see if they know why?
I've seen BYD commercial vehicles in the US, but only at a company not known for following rules. I suspect commercial vehicles are easier to import anyway.
Regular passenger vehicles have a lot of standards they need to meet, which usually means manufacturer participation. Has BYD gone through the process to get passenger vehicles approved for use in the US? Otherwise, sure, you can get it imported under a conditional use to bring it to car shows, but not for daily use.
You can't. You don't want an old, non-electric one (presumably), so you can't use that loophole to register one. So unless you're the CEO of Ford (who has all the connections in the world), you won't be able to bring it in and register it, and depending on the state, you have to register it, even if it's not operating on public lands. I will pay $5k on top of the $8k base price and $8k for 100% tarrif, for a total of $21k for a BYD Seagull in California if you can get one delivered and registered to me. I'm sure there's collectors out there offering way more.
I dodged a bullet. I bought into the original heavy stainless steel exoskeleton concept, which they never delivered on. So they had my deposit. Then it took me a year and a half (!!) to get my deposit back from time of request, a dozen documented follow-ups on phone, email, and in-person at the stealership.
Tesla’s excuse: While they were happy to take a Canadian’s money with fully refundable deposit terms, they had not contemplated actually ever refunding a Canadian. The deposit was made by credit card. The only option offered for refund was a deposit to an American bank account.
It seems like no aspect of the Cybertruck project was done well.
Then it took me a year and a half (!!) to get my deposit back from time of request
After we decided against an F-150 Lightning because it wouldn’t fit in the garage, one click of the “cancel reservation” button, and the money was back in our account within two weeks. When we were disappointed with the VW Buzz that the U. S. was getting, same deal: VW gave our money back in a few weeks.
Granted, your situation is arguably a little out-of-band if you squint really hard, but c’mon, Tesla.
I mean, I wouldn't be surprised if promises weren't kept or expectations not met. This is the same company that has a product called Full Self Driving that cannot fully self drive.
They originally claimed the stainless steel panels would replace the internal frame and thus be more efficient to produce. But they shipped with a traditional frame
The way they proposed doing it was folding steel sheets into the CT structure. My guess is they were never able to produce consistent enough folds. It takes pretty precise metal working to make that work.
The “exoskeleton” part? The stainless panels are poorly glued to an aluminum frame. The frame provides the structure, the panels are load, not bearing.
I know Tesla and the various models have their issues but the Cybertruck and the rest of the Tesla models seem like they are made from two completely different companies. Every time I see one of these driving around trim pieces are missing from them which I don't recall seeing from any other brand.
For all the initial PR they got, they've always had quality issues that rarely plague other manufacturers. Elon has just done a great job of creating a reality distortion field around the cars. Once he started getting into politics and the veneer started wearing off, people started asking questions.
I think people forget the Model 3 literally had the bumper falling off from driving in rain. And it took Tesla a LONG time to admit to it being their fault.
Fit and finish is wildly variable. Panel gaps on the 3 and Y can be huge! I can tell which model in my office parking lot is mine solely based on the trunk and rear quarterpanel gaps.
They literally went from an exoskeleton based truck bent into shape to an aluminium truck whose interior frame shatters on impact instead of the panels absorbing the hit - so instead of having to replace cheap plastic trim and collision absorbing metal bars, the energy gets dissipated inside the (almost unrepairable) aluminium frame.
Additionally, they didn't manage to find a satisfactory solution to attach the steel panels to the frame so they glued them on.
I suspect the 'parts falling off' has something to do with the inflexibility of both materials as well as the different thermal expansion coefficients.
On normal cars, bodywork is either made of flexible plastic, or is attached via spring joints so that the vibration doesn't damage them - that's why you have panel gaps - so they can move around a bit.
If you fix them rigidly, they're going to shake off eventually.
It doesn't help perception that the last time I saw a cybertruck in SF, it was broken down the middle lane with the driver slowly walking sideways parallel to traffic alongside the truck... presumably to reattach or reset something? Why anyone would pay $$$ for this POS is beyond me.
That's because Musk personally oversaw the design of the Cybertruck and likely rejected all pleas to make sensible decisions. Musk did not design the other models.
Just like how SpaceX and Tesla and Twitter seem like they have three different CEOs; the degree of their competency is inversely proportional to the amount of day-to-day feedback Musk has into their operations.
He was happy enough to be able to spell s3xy with those cars. Maybe they could have come up with something extremely juvenile for him to do while they designed a rivian
You do see glimpses of it in the other models. Eg. The removal of the indicator stalk likely saved <$100 (if that!) but it's a non-starter for many buyers. That has to be Musk's doing right?
> You do see glimpses of it in the other models. Eg. The removal of the indicator stalk likely saved <$100 (if that!) but it's a non-starter for many buyers. That has to be Musk's doing right?
"all input is error" - elon musk
wdyt? From where I'm sitting anyone with that position would deprecate the input devices...
He actually shares a lot in common with his former(?) friend Kanye West. Both crave the validation of others, but when they get it, instead of being satisfied, they become even more needy and insecure. So they pursue anything except what they're actually good at because then if they fail at the thing people actually value them for, it would be too painful. And they surround themselves with yes men who tell them how great they are. All these factors make them more and more isolated and insecure. Combine that with drugs, alcohol, and sex and you have a toxic brew.
You may say this armchair analysis is unfair, but both these men have been so candid, veiled by the thinnest layer of irony, that it's impossible not to see how fragile they are.
I don't think this is unfair at all. I mean this literally has to be one of like the three oldest stories ever? And I mean that literally. There is no more timeless a story than: "man gets powerful enough to eliminate negative feedback, becomes stupid/ineffective/self-damaging"
That's a requirement, part of being in a cult is being rejected by "outsiders" so that you think you have no other options other than staying in the cult.
Without actually getting into the specific actions he took while in government, I dare say that what he did during that time was material to people's revulsion and that a different version of him who took different actions would have been differently popular.
For sure but deciding what to do is part of political instincts. He rolled in, threw some "roman salutes" fired tons of people in an insanely chaotic way while waving a chainsaw around on stage then showed up in the Whitehouse with a black eye he blamed on his toddler
Come on, he is properly good manager. A bit fascist and authoritarian (or more than a bit) but often delivers, at least when not bullshitting investors and buyers like with FSD. He can drive himself to the ground and then keep himself afloat with cocktail of drugs, ozempic and similar and expects no less from his underlings. Sort of good ol' oil baron of 19th century in 21st century.
His weakness is as you write - thinking he is the smartest and best engineer in the room, when all he has are engineering companies.
The benchmark for good management is higher than “often delivers.”
I have no issue calling Musk a wildly successful businessman as he has made several great investments including getting companies off the ground, however his track record for actually running things is questionable. Was ‘taking Tesla over from its founders’ a good idea or not is different than ‘was investing in Tesla’ a good idea. Financially it definitely allowed him to extract more money from the company so it’s a good business decision, but as far as actually running things I don’t know.
The Roadster v2 is a no show and the Cybertruck is a failure, the 3 on the other hand is successful but part of the initial pitch for the company. The minimally innovative model Y is arguably his biggest success as a manager. Even the charging network Telsa’s biggest strategic advantage has become deprioritized. Boring, X, and Tesla Solar have clearly been mismanaged. Neuralink is a long way from delivering anything viable as a company.
The parts of SpaceX he’s seemingly ignoring are doing way better than the bits under his focus. Starlink is doing well and he definitely had a hand on that so that’s something significant.
SpaceX’s strategy has been really questionable for a while.
Falcon Heavy has done 11 flights since 2018 and now they’re building an even larger platform despite heavy launch not really being a viable market segment. Starship has been slower than the now canceled SLS program run by Boing. If Starship succeeds it seems to guarantee than Falcon Heavy will have a negative ROI, but Starship needs to be wildly successful to have a positive ROI.
Starlink helps justify a high launch capacity, but isn’t in need of a heavy launch platform. A more reusable Falcon 9 would have simplified thermal issues, reduced R&D costs, and presumably increased profits much sooner. That IMO would have been a far better strategy than scaling, up while changing to a wildly different engine, and targeting increased reusability, etc.
Clearly how? Seems to me analogous to Tesla where the one thing he's clearly fixated on (Cybertruck and Starship) are very likely to be flops and potentially take down each company as a whole.
Am I the only one who works in an org where the strategy team, on a good day, is completely decoupled from efforts that result in delivery. On a normal day they actively sabotage those efforts.
Like promising your team will create a Mars colony by 2036 while they're trying to make commercial rocketry efficient and safe.
> If you want to build a ship, don't drum up the men to gather wood, divide the work and give orders. Instead, teach them to yearn for the vast and endless sea.
I've never seen a cybertruck with a missing trim piece, and there are usually a few at my local super charger. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but it's certainly not some ongoing common issue like you're implying
I don't disagree that it happens/happened, just that I disagree with the implied frequency, as I've never seen it in person and I see a lot of cybertrucks at my local chargers.
Also this recall is for the lightbar, the trim piece was recalled in March.
The issue stems from the primer applied before gluing the optional light bar to the windshield (no fasteners are used in the attachment of the light bar).
Is that typical in the industry, parts or components being glued onto an exterior surface instead of fastened?
It's not uncommon, particularly for vehicles with composite body panels.
Smaller items like door trim, manufacturer logos, are primarily held on with adhesives.
Mid-size accessories like add-on spoilers on trunk lids, or other exterior styling pieces are frequently attached with adhesive.
A larger component commonly attached with adhesives are the rear fender flares on dually pickups. Very commonly these are built with a standard bed, and then the flares to cover the extra wheel width are applied with a 3M VHB-like adhesive strip.
But like anything, there is a way to do it properly, and a way to do it hacky.
Most plastic body panels are held on with conformal clips. But they couldn't do that with the metal panels of the cyber truck nor did they want visible fasteners so glue is the only option.
Glue isn't ideal because the part has to be clamped in place while the glue cures which is slow, and quality control is tough because you're doing a little chemistry experiment on your assembly line hundreds of times per day.
Normal cars have this problem with paint and quality control with paint is such a big deal that it has its own separate production line just for painting stuff pre or post assembly
Using composite panels is very uncommon in production vehicles and when they are used (for looks) traditional fasteners are used during assembly often with threaded inserts embedded in the composite panel during manufacture
The lightbars mentioned in the article were an optional non-factory addon that were installed at the Tesla dealership. The steel body panels are not glued on.
Its even stranger because presumably the light requires a wire for power, so using an adhesive doesn't allow them to avoid making at least 1 hole in the roof.
Perhaps it's about minimizing the installation cost at the dealership.
The irony is that you'd imagine that an off-road roof mounted light would be something that you should be able to tighten when you are ... off-road.
I guess field serviceability isn't a design goal for these "off-road" trucks, but appearing "off-road" when going glamping is.
Cybertrucks already come with a 48V 400W auxiliary power connection under the applique strip on the right side of the roof, so there was no need to make a hole in the roof.
There just isn't a lot of options other than adhesive for installing a light bar considering the windshield consumes all of the forward facing real estate (as the roof slopes back from the apex).
Love this overconfident armchair mechanical engineering and product design.
Many vehicles with light bars have them mounted onto a standoff bracket. Why not design a standoff that mounts after the apex (back sloped part), using a piece with an angle complementary to the roof slope, providing a flat surface for the light bar to mount on? Pretty straightforward and honestly exactly what I would expect as an official accessory to a $100K vehicle.
Btw, does Tesla pay you for all your white knighting?
The off road community has been complaining about "off road" vehicles that are not suitable for off road use for decades. Most off "road vehicles" are you can drive it around the house to your backyard if it isn't too muddy/steep. Anyone who really goes off road is looking for a lot of features that are hard to find in a production vehicle. (which is why they often modify production vehicles). A true off road vehicle often looks like a production off-road vehicle, but in production they do cosmetic changes to look the same as what true off-road vehicles do - but the difference cosmetic. Things like both sit high off the ground, but the off road one they look at what mechanical parts are underneath and either protect them or raise them.
> Anyone who really goes off road is looking for a lot of features that are hard to find in a production vehicle. (which is why they often modify production vehicles).
Perhaps this is something that Slate can solve better than Tesla.
The customizations available/planned are cosmetic things not of interest to off road. You can put in a different sound system or change the color - but off road wants things like a skid plate that can handle boulders.
Yes. The frame is welded, but more and more the body panels are glued. BMW has been doing this for a while. Modern adhesives are as strong as spot welds for this sort of thing.
Tons of cars made by companies other than Tesla have some parts attached by adhesives. Lots of decorative trim pieces and reflectors may be attached with adhesives instead of screws. Its not like there are a lot of screws involved in attaching windshields. There have been other companies with recalls related to adhesive failures, but it seems Tesla has adhesive failures far more frequently than others and seems to use adhesives for a lot more of their body parts.
You shouldn't be getting downvoted, you're right. Adhesives can be incredibly strong, and it's common for even larger panels to be glued on. For whatever reason a lot of British cars in particular (range rover, jaguar, etc) use bonded and riveted frames instead of welding for their aluminum framed vehicles, with lots of components just being glued on.
>Is that typical in the industry, parts or components being glued onto an exterior surface instead of fastened?
Yes. If automotive OEMs can glue it they will.
It's just that other OEMs don't build uninterrupted 5ft light bars so glueing is a much less suitable (think about how much glue contact patch per amount of light bar there is and how little leverage it's mass has over the glue, contrast with normal light) solution for them.
Not to mention that the lightbar is directly in the airstream as you drive. It only has to start lifting a little and getting air underneath. Once that happens any glue joint is doomed.
I think if you did the glue joint perfectly then it would probably be fine, but impeccable QC is not a hallmark of Tesla.
Windshields themselves are glued into the frame, and have been for years. They are a major part of the structure of the vehicle, as well as an important safety device, and there isn't a problem with them comining loose. Badges are attached with double sided tape, but obviously those are a lot smaller than a light bar.
What I meant was that there's no real recess in the A pillars or front of roof for the glass to go "in" to anymore. The edge of the glass gets covered by trim or whatever so you can't see it, unlike the old days (so like 1990s down) where things used gasket.
I can't believe they are still selling that abomination. The styling is not the same as their rest of the lineup, which was a major mistake. I personally wouldn't want a car that relies on glue that much.
One man’s abomination is another man’s ideal family car :)
There is no other consumer car that can self-drive from start to finish for an entire trip. That alone will keep me on Tesla until the others catch up. Crash tests have shown that it’s excellent at protecting its occupants, which matters to me as a father of two. The cyberpunk aesthetic, whole home battery backup, and large secured truck bed are just icing on the cake.
I had the trim glue issue fixed proactively (it’s now secured mechanically) and I don’t have a light bar so the new issue doesn’t affect me. Granted, it’s not great that they opted for glue for that use case.
I do not like the Cybertruck, the company that makes it, nor the man who owns said company.
That being said, I still appreciate seeing them out on the road as an example of what's effectively a concept car that made it to production. It also looks cool and stands apart aesthetically from pretty much everything else on the market, even if the giant 1-piece wiper and black plastic wheel well trim pieces mar the clean lines of the original design.
I'm not sufficiently familiar with the data to say whether or not Cybertrucks or Teslas have significantly more design problems or QC issues than other manufacturers, or if news outlets just latch onto the stories more because Musk's public behavior makes him such a lightning rod for controversy.
Regardless, I think the Cybertruck will go down in history as an iconic car and a symbol of the 2020s, even if it was an objectively bad product (think DeLorean).
> "Tesla Service will inspect the light bar and install an additional mechanical attachment or replace the light bar using tape to adhere the light bar to the windshield as well as an additional mechanical attachment as necessary, free of charge."
Tape? The fix is to add some tape? At least it's free...
Go watch Mat Alexander rebuild super cars and you will see things like parts attached with glue and fenders shimmed with plastic inserts and welds that look like a drunk did them.
They've also recalled powerwalks. Tesla is great at being visionary, their Achilles heal has always been their weak manufacturing. Which makes sense, its the really hard part about being in the car or battery business.
I'd hardly call it "weak" with gigafactories setting new standards in efficiency, and Tesla being the only "recently" founded US carmaker making massive amounts of cars. All while they have more vertical integration than the competition.
Cybertrucks are for pioneers. If you want something super reliable, just get a "boring" Model Y. They've improved all parts of the design continuously, the cars are indistinguishable from the early ones when it comes to finish quality
Well, here in NJ at least, Cybertrucks are not for pioneers, but inevitably for wealth signaling of mostly clueless people to show they have cash to throw away.
There are of course many wealth signaling cars, but the Cybertruck is in a special noisome class all its own.
>As of this story's publication, Thursday, September 4, 2025, Ford has issued 109 recalls that have covered 7,871,344 vehicles. Of course, quite a few of those cars are repeat offenders, but you get the point. It's staggering.
>Of those 109 recalls, 26 of them are re-recalls. That means they're recalls on recalls Ford has already carried out,
> Tesla’s fix will involve an additional redundancy to keep the lightbar affixed to the windshield, should the glue fail.
Good news - it only affects 6000 vehicles with the optional lightbar which is dealer installed. Bad news - Tesla finds it ok to let its dealers do glued lightbar installations and can't really fix the glue failing part so they are adding redundancy.
Looking at the actual service manual, there appear to be no fewer than 10 warnings related to the use of the primer alone. There is also a separate step involving cleaning with IPA. This procedure seems like it belongs in a chemistry lab more than a car shop. I can't imagine the average mechanic not fucking this up in some important way.
It's a beta release product. Of course it has problems. I don't think any of Cybertruck's growing pains are remarkable.
IIRC, Tesla skipped the industry's normal typical period of real world testing for new platforms. That should have scared off most buyers.
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Cybertruck should have been rolled out like the Roadster. Exclusive, prestige, wrap-around customer service. The superfans would happily pay to participate.
There's always a (modest) market for niche vehicles, like the Cybertruck. eg Subaru Brat, VW The Thing (name?).
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Cybertruck has so much innovation, cool tech. 48V, drive-by-wire, the modular internet bus thing, 4 wheel steering, even bigger castings, etc.
Tesla was (initially) right to de-risk those things by using them in a (much) lower volume vehicle. And field test everything ahead of the high volume Model 2 / Robotaxi.
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The big, IMHO, mistake was juicing the stock price by hyping Cybertruck as Tesla's next home run.
> Now check how many recalls there are with companies like Ford. Recalls are pretty much standard in the vehicle industry.
As of this story's publication, Thursday, September 4, 2025, Ford has issued 109 recalls that have covered 7,871,344 vehicles. Of course, quite a few of those cars are repeat offenders, but you get the point. It's staggering.
Of those 109 recalls, 26 of them are re-recalls. That means they're recalls on recalls Ford has already carried out
Its american car, whatever that means. Rest of the world considers it properly fugly and most western countries ban it due to lack of any pedestrian protection.
The least of its problems IMO, when the Cybertruck looks like it was designed to inflict maximum harm to pedestrians in a crash. The fact that such an obviously destructive design is legal on public roads should be setting off alarm bells at the USDOT and NHTSA.
It looks like it's designed to inflict maximum harm, but it seems that it's actually less likely to kill you than an F-150 or Silverado or Ram. It has a lower hood height which is the aspect that has been hypothesized to be the reason that trucks kill pedestrians at a much greater rate than cars.
I'm not trying to condone Cybertruck here. I hope the Cybertruck becomes a rallying cry to mandate pedestrian safety in the US, and that mandate becomes data driven and indicts F-150 et al.
Cybertruck is a great case study in how people confuse form for function.
In a world where technology is advancing exponentially, aesthetics increasingly offer a poor signal for performance, and only those who obsessively look under the hood and disregard form will see through it all.
Mechanically sure, but I still feel way safer when a Tesla (of any kind) is approaching me as a pedestrian or bicyclist than any other vehicle (except maybe Waymo) because I know they will alert the driver and brake if necessary. Any other car, especially older trucks, I'm quite afraid of, based on experience.
> because I know they will alert the driver and brake if necessary.
This is not necessarily accurate.
https://x.com/TaylorOgan/status/1681240264554209281 ("Warning: Graphic; Last month, a 76-year-old pedestrian was tragically mowed down by a Tesla Model S in Brooklyn, NY. Both of his legs were torn off, according to witnesses. New data from the NHTSA says the Tesla was engaged on Autopilot/Full Self-Driving mode.")
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/model-y-doesnt-stop-...
https://www.tesladeaths.com/
I own several Teslas, would not trust them to stop for a pedestrian while in any driver assist mode. It may work, but if you rely on it, be prepared for consequences when it fails, as you are the responsible party when it fails.
You would need to compare the data against the data of non-smart trucks. I'm guessing it's an order of magnitude more dangerous to be a pedestrian around a normal truck.
Automatic emergency braking is a standard feature on many new cars, and will be mandatory for all new passenger cars and light trucks in the U.S. by September 2029. I am open to the assertion that Tesla's AEB, when scoped to pedestrian scenarios, is superior to other AEB systems, but this assertion requires data and evidence for support.
https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-safety/automatic-em...
https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-safety/aeb-with-ped...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automated_emergency_braking_sy...
https://www.nhtsa.gov/sites/nhtsa.gov/files/2024-04/final-ru... [pdf]
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a63027394/feds-automated-e...
Dumb trucks don't encourage their drivers to turn their brains off.
That first crash sure doesn't sound like Autopilot/FSD, given that the car kept going after the crash.
Tesla is currently renting vehicles for $60/day due to diminished demand; if one would like to test this personally, the cost is minimal. Avoid bodily injury whenever possible during testing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=coeaqdexknE
https://electrek.co/2025/11/10/tesla-cant-sell-cars-so-renti...
Edit: @romaaeterna Are you willing to stand in front of it while it is at speed without a safety driver? I am trying to reconcile the mental model with risk appetite and potential gaps between priors and current state.
I have a Tesla and a drive FSD back and forth to work every day. It's great
In my experience, Tesla drivers are some of the worst drivers on the road. They seem to pay the least attention to what's going on around them and are the most likely to pay fast and loose with the rules of the road. I don't know what's to account for this. There has been at least one study out of Berkeley that suggests that people who drive more expensive cars are more likely to break the rules of the road. It's possible that (at least here in Seattle), this is more likely to be the driver's first car since many people driving them are highly paid tech workers who often hail from others countries and who may not have as good of a grasp of driving in the US. Or it may be that this is enabled by autopilot itself (if your car is taking care of the safety you don't have to pay as much attention).
The last reason is the biggest imo. Previously if you didn't pay attention you would crash relatively often. Now you aren't punished in the same way. In the same way spell check made us worse spellers. You aren't required to pay attention to detail, so you never develop that skill.
> There has been at least one study out of Berkeley that suggests that people who drive more expensive cars are more likely to break the rules of the road.
In Germany, we have a joke - BMWs don't need turn signal indicators, they have built-in precedence that comes with paying the money one needs to have to afford a BMW.
May be misplaced considering Teslas have hit pedestrians. Additionally, many cars have pedestrian/object collision detection.
Are collision avoidance system and automated emergency braking not standard in the US? Here in Switzerland basically every new vehicle has them.
https://youtu.be/_47utWAoupo?t=16
Given the amount of pedestrians that have been killed by Telsas in "autopilot" mode, I can't say that I agree.
Could you give me some numbers about deaths caused by Tesla versus other brands per mile driven? It seems to be very difficult to find enough information to draw any conclusions.
My Honda has a break alert system.
Not only Cybertruck. Also other trucks like Ford F150 etc.
Trucks in general are awful for pedestrians and other motorists, but the Cybertruck is made specifically of sharp angles that will rip and tear more than a big flat vertical wall running into you.
Pickup trucks aren't flat vertical walls like a semi though. They are a high wall with a hood.
While "sharp" edge can certainly break bones, a high hood can cause you to ragdoll your head into the hood.
Head injuries are far more likely to cause death.
clear case of bias infecting judgment.
The front is rounded which is the place you'll hit in the vast majority of cases.
It's not legal in europe.
Same as rat poison, coming 2026...
have you got any stats to back that up?
Is this really happening though?
> the Cybertruck looks like it was designed to inflict maximum harm to pedestrians in a crash
Isn't that the selling point?
Good luck with that. This is the CEOs pet project, who spent 3mo openly and directly dismantling regulatory groups in the U.S. while at the same time threatening to pull out of key defense and aerospace initiatives if the poor guy didn’t get his way
I wish we had more respect for innovation.
Even presuming pieces weren't falling off, every time I see one of these my first thought is how did this pass safety standards (e.g. the sharp corners/blades/edges; pedestrian-strike setups).
Now add on flying corners/blades/edges ... even less enthused.
----
I finally drove in a Rivian — and while I prefer the hybrid drivetrains — it was exceptionally nice. As an American, I can't wait for BYD to offer test drives here.
> how did this pass safety standards
In the US, the safety standards consider only the occupants of the car. The safety of pedestrians, cyclists, and occupants of other cars are not considered. This was looking like it would change but with the current administration I doubt it.
The Cybertruck is not legal in Europe and anywhere else with actual safety standards.
Downvote or not, it's true:
> NHTSA conducts frontal, side and rollover tests because these types account for the majority of crashes on America's roadways.
> IIHS tests evaluate two aspects of safety: crashworthiness — how well a vehicle protects its occupants in a crash — and crash avoidance and mitigation — technology that can prevent a crash or lessen its severity.
> As well as assessing how well cars protect their occupants, Euro NCAP tests how well they protect those vulnerable road users – pedestrians and cyclists – with whom they might collide.
NHTSA outlawed hood ornaments purely for pedestrian safety, so it’s not 100% correct.
BYD is overhyped in the US for some reason. In the countries where they are available, they are considered decent budget vehicles. There's a reason why the Model Y is still the best seller in China.
Same country that seems to disproportionately like Buicks? Yeah, “there’s a reason”, but it might not be what you think it is.
Some would say Tesla has been over hyped as well.
> In the countries where they are available, they are considered decent budget vehicles.
Yes, and I want a decent budget vehicle here.
X-Pengs are where it's at. They are taking over fast in Europe with better cars for less money.
> every time I see one of these my first thought is
Even ignoring the parts falling off & the safety, every time I see one of these my first thought is "who saw a picture of this and said 'yep, that's what I want'"
BYDs are never coming to the American market.
Well we're going to have a new president in a little over 2 years so I'm not sure why you say "never."
You're awaiting a new president with hopes the Chinese can again saturate the market with more of their cheap junk?
Three years, unless something happens to Trump or he resigns or is impeached and removed. This is still the first of his four years in office, though it feels like longer.
Ha you're right but anyway... two or three years isn't "never"
Fair point, I'd say probably not until early next decade unless something substantial changes politically in the US. By that point, the EV demand in the US will probably be high enough to force allowing imports unless domestic manufacturers have finally figured out how to make affordable EVs.
Maybe you mean the US market. In Canada we don't have a Hitler wannabe yet at the top, so we might still get them.
I'm not sure if the USA will allow them in Canada either. Pushing back against China is one of the few things both parties agree with right now.
Canada's auto industry is tied to the US's. As much as BYD coming to the US would hurt all of North America's auto industry. BYD coming to Canada would also hurt the auto industry. They are just too interconnected.
> Canada's auto industry is tied to the US's.
As is Mexico's, but BYD is available there — as well in a number of other North American countries.
> BYD coming to Canada would also hurt the auto industry.
To be fair, it is already hurting from the attacks launched by the USA. Canada has been considering partnering with China instead as a result of this. BYD is looking more and more realistic.
Relevant XKCD is the most recent: #3167
"If I don't install more whirling spiked clubs, I'll be destroyed by the other drivers..."
Because the individual angles and feature sizes and locations aren't all that egregious when compared to everything else you find on modern pickups. Look at the current Tundra let alone a Chevy 2500. What's different is the complete lack of other styling features to soften the look. Of course it wouldn't pass safety in Europe, but neither would the other stuff mentioned.
Unfortunately Rivian somehow has even worse reliability than Tesla.
And you can buy a BYD in America. There's just a pre-Trump 100% tariff on Chinese EVs with bipartisan support that isn't going away any time soon.
I tried with much effort to import a BYD, and the federal government slowed me down every step of the way to where I gave up around regime change last November. If you have a way I can buy a BYD today, regardless of cost, in the US, I would be interested.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39992428
How far did you get, and what do you mean "regardless of cost"? The big issue is going to be getting the vehicle to pass FMVSS, and it looks like no one has successfully done it. Have you talked to an RI to see if they know why?
I've seen BYD commercial vehicles in the US, but only at a company not known for following rules. I suspect commercial vehicles are easier to import anyway.
Regular passenger vehicles have a lot of standards they need to meet, which usually means manufacturer participation. Has BYD gone through the process to get passenger vehicles approved for use in the US? Otherwise, sure, you can get it imported under a conditional use to bring it to car shows, but not for daily use.
You can't. You don't want an old, non-electric one (presumably), so you can't use that loophole to register one. So unless you're the CEO of Ford (who has all the connections in the world), you won't be able to bring it in and register it, and depending on the state, you have to register it, even if it's not operating on public lands. I will pay $5k on top of the $8k base price and $8k for 100% tarrif, for a total of $21k for a BYD Seagull in California if you can get one delivered and registered to me. I'm sure there's collectors out there offering way more.
There are import exceptions for testing purposes which I would imagine is how Ford is able to bring one over.
I dodged a bullet. I bought into the original heavy stainless steel exoskeleton concept, which they never delivered on. So they had my deposit. Then it took me a year and a half (!!) to get my deposit back from time of request, a dozen documented follow-ups on phone, email, and in-person at the stealership.
Tesla’s excuse: While they were happy to take a Canadian’s money with fully refundable deposit terms, they had not contemplated actually ever refunding a Canadian. The deposit was made by credit card. The only option offered for refund was a deposit to an American bank account.
It seems like no aspect of the Cybertruck project was done well.
"Tesla’s fix will involve an additional redundancy to keep the lightbar affixed to the windshield, should the glue fail."
It's faintly believable that the additional redundancy might involve a roll of duct tape. It's even the right color.
Then it took me a year and a half (!!) to get my deposit back from time of request
After we decided against an F-150 Lightning because it wouldn’t fit in the garage, one click of the “cancel reservation” button, and the money was back in our account within two weeks. When we were disappointed with the VW Buzz that the U. S. was getting, same deal: VW gave our money back in a few weeks.
Granted, your situation is arguably a little out-of-band if you squint really hard, but c’mon, Tesla.
What part of the stainless exoskeleton did they not deliver on?
https://www.tesla.com/learn/superior-durability-cybertruck-h...
I mean, I wouldn't be surprised if promises weren't kept or expectations not met. This is the same company that has a product called Full Self Driving that cannot fully self drive.
They originally claimed the stainless steel panels would replace the internal frame and thus be more efficient to produce. But they shipped with a traditional frame
This was genuinely innovative and intriguing. Did the numbers just not work out for manufacturing or some other thing get in the way?
The way they proposed doing it was folding steel sheets into the CT structure. My guess is they were never able to produce consistent enough folds. It takes pretty precise metal working to make that work.
The “exoskeleton” part? The stainless panels are poorly glued to an aluminum frame. The frame provides the structure, the panels are load, not bearing.
Was the concept as hideously ugly as the actual design? I still don't understand how people can drive those things in public.
The drivers probably have the mental development of a middle-schooler - these trucks are FIRE with 7-grader boys!
Whenever I see one in the wild, I point and laugh like Nelson from the Simpsons. Ha-ha!
Presumably the part about it not falling apart.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3m5qxZm_JqM
I know Tesla and the various models have their issues but the Cybertruck and the rest of the Tesla models seem like they are made from two completely different companies. Every time I see one of these driving around trim pieces are missing from them which I don't recall seeing from any other brand.
For all the initial PR they got, they've always had quality issues that rarely plague other manufacturers. Elon has just done a great job of creating a reality distortion field around the cars. Once he started getting into politics and the veneer started wearing off, people started asking questions.
I think people forget the Model 3 literally had the bumper falling off from driving in rain. And it took Tesla a LONG time to admit to it being their fault.
https://www.jalopnik.com/tesla-finally-admits-model-3-bumper...
Fit and finish is wildly variable. Panel gaps on the 3 and Y can be huge! I can tell which model in my office parking lot is mine solely based on the trunk and rear quarterpanel gaps.
They literally went from an exoskeleton based truck bent into shape to an aluminium truck whose interior frame shatters on impact instead of the panels absorbing the hit - so instead of having to replace cheap plastic trim and collision absorbing metal bars, the energy gets dissipated inside the (almost unrepairable) aluminium frame.
Additionally, they didn't manage to find a satisfactory solution to attach the steel panels to the frame so they glued them on.
I suspect the 'parts falling off' has something to do with the inflexibility of both materials as well as the different thermal expansion coefficients.
On normal cars, bodywork is either made of flexible plastic, or is attached via spring joints so that the vibration doesn't damage them - that's why you have panel gaps - so they can move around a bit.
If you fix them rigidly, they're going to shake off eventually.
A monocoque design could be really cool. Like the original Mini. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mini
Were I in charge, I'd've started with a kei car or city car. Or something (size wise) like Telo. https://www.telotrucks.com/
Definitely would not have started with an off-road vehicle.
It doesn't help perception that the last time I saw a cybertruck in SF, it was broken down the middle lane with the driver slowly walking sideways parallel to traffic alongside the truck... presumably to reattach or reset something? Why anyone would pay $$$ for this POS is beyond me.
I have a Tesla Model X and the front door and rear door aren't even latitudinally aligned.
My model Y leaks from the trunk and is about to go in again to see if they can fix it. Not even a first run Y either.
That's because Musk personally oversaw the design of the Cybertruck and likely rejected all pleas to make sensible decisions. Musk did not design the other models.
Just like how SpaceX and Tesla and Twitter seem like they have three different CEOs; the degree of their competency is inversely proportional to the amount of day-to-day feedback Musk has into their operations.
He was happy enough to be able to spell s3xy with those cars. Maybe they could have come up with something extremely juvenile for him to do while they designed a rivian
Like make the integrated voice-activated AI have a setting to swear at and insult you while driving
Call it a model 69 and be done
Or maybe model 6/7 would be better for him nowadays
You do see glimpses of it in the other models. Eg. The removal of the indicator stalk likely saved <$100 (if that!) but it's a non-starter for many buyers. That has to be Musk's doing right?
> You do see glimpses of it in the other models. Eg. The removal of the indicator stalk likely saved <$100 (if that!) but it's a non-starter for many buyers. That has to be Musk's doing right?
"all input is error" - elon musk
wdyt? From where I'm sitting anyone with that position would deprecate the input devices...
Musk's superpower is cult-building. His fatal flaw is that he has no idea that is his superpower.
He actually shares a lot in common with his former(?) friend Kanye West. Both crave the validation of others, but when they get it, instead of being satisfied, they become even more needy and insecure. So they pursue anything except what they're actually good at because then if they fail at the thing people actually value them for, it would be too painful. And they surround themselves with yes men who tell them how great they are. All these factors make them more and more isolated and insecure. Combine that with drugs, alcohol, and sex and you have a toxic brew.
You may say this armchair analysis is unfair, but both these men have been so candid, veiled by the thinnest layer of irony, that it's impossible not to see how fragile they are.
I don't think this is unfair at all. I mean this literally has to be one of like the three oldest stories ever? And I mean that literally. There is no more timeless a story than: "man gets powerful enough to eliminate negative feedback, becomes stupid/ineffective/self-damaging"
Kanye made some incredible music in his day, at least. I still listen to College Dropout and Dark Twisted Fantasy.
Kanye's beat/producer credits are also amazing.
"No idea" doesn’t sound right.
I’d say he thinks he has many superpowers, but maybe in reality just has one.
His cult is a very specific type of person. The general public finds him repulsive as demonstrated by his time in government.
He's a cult leader with surprisingly horrible political instincts
He did better at hiding his worst instincts. I honestly think the Ketamine has destroyed his ability to hide his worst instincts.
Not saying there weren't leaks that he was a huge asshole. Just saying that I could forgive people for over looking it early on.
That's a requirement, part of being in a cult is being rejected by "outsiders" so that you think you have no other options other than staying in the cult.
Classic abusive behavior.
> as demonstrated by his time in government
Without actually getting into the specific actions he took while in government, I dare say that what he did during that time was material to people's revulsion and that a different version of him who took different actions would have been differently popular.
For sure but deciding what to do is part of political instincts. He rolled in, threw some "roman salutes" fired tons of people in an insanely chaotic way while waving a chainsaw around on stage then showed up in the Whitehouse with a black eye he blamed on his toddler
Yeah, most cults are repulsive to most outsiders. Their power is completely derived from the intensity of the in-group's commitment.
Come on, he is properly good manager. A bit fascist and authoritarian (or more than a bit) but often delivers, at least when not bullshitting investors and buyers like with FSD. He can drive himself to the ground and then keep himself afloat with cocktail of drugs, ozempic and similar and expects no less from his underlings. Sort of good ol' oil baron of 19th century in 21st century.
His weakness is as you write - thinking he is the smartest and best engineer in the room, when all he has are engineering companies.
The benchmark for good management is higher than “often delivers.”
I have no issue calling Musk a wildly successful businessman as he has made several great investments including getting companies off the ground, however his track record for actually running things is questionable. Was ‘taking Tesla over from its founders’ a good idea or not is different than ‘was investing in Tesla’ a good idea. Financially it definitely allowed him to extract more money from the company so it’s a good business decision, but as far as actually running things I don’t know.
The Roadster v2 is a no show and the Cybertruck is a failure, the 3 on the other hand is successful but part of the initial pitch for the company. The minimally innovative model Y is arguably his biggest success as a manager. Even the charging network Telsa’s biggest strategic advantage has become deprioritized. Boring, X, and Tesla Solar have clearly been mismanaged. Neuralink is a long way from delivering anything viable as a company.
The parts of SpaceX he’s seemingly ignoring are doing way better than the bits under his focus. Starlink is doing well and he definitely had a hand on that so that’s something significant.
He literally doesn't deliver.
SpaceX is the only company of his that consistently delivers and that's effectively not operated by him.
He is clearly still very involved in the strategy of spacex. I don't think he actually cares much about cars these days.
SpaceX’s strategy has been really questionable for a while.
Falcon Heavy has done 11 flights since 2018 and now they’re building an even larger platform despite heavy launch not really being a viable market segment. Starship has been slower than the now canceled SLS program run by Boing. If Starship succeeds it seems to guarantee than Falcon Heavy will have a negative ROI, but Starship needs to be wildly successful to have a positive ROI.
Starlink helps justify a high launch capacity, but isn’t in need of a heavy launch platform. A more reusable Falcon 9 would have simplified thermal issues, reduced R&D costs, and presumably increased profits much sooner. That IMO would have been a far better strategy than scaling, up while changing to a wildly different engine, and targeting increased reusability, etc.
Clearly how? Seems to me analogous to Tesla where the one thing he's clearly fixated on (Cybertruck and Starship) are very likely to be flops and potentially take down each company as a whole.
Am I the only one who works in an org where the strategy team, on a good day, is completely decoupled from efforts that result in delivery. On a normal day they actively sabotage those efforts.
Like promising your team will create a Mars colony by 2036 while they're trying to make commercial rocketry efficient and safe.
> If you want to build a ship, don't drum up the men to gather wood, divide the work and give orders. Instead, teach them to yearn for the vast and endless sea.
-Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
... famous for having built fuck all.
I mean yes, it is often good to inspire people. But that is not strategy any more than you can win a game of Risk by beliving you can roll only 7s.
I've never seen a cybertruck with a missing trim piece, and there are usually a few at my local super charger. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but it's certainly not some ongoing common issue like you're implying
Call the NHTSA and tell them to cancel the recall then.
I don't disagree that it happens/happened, just that I disagree with the implied frequency, as I've never seen it in person and I see a lot of cybertrucks at my local chargers.
Also this recall is for the lightbar, the trim piece was recalled in March.
The issue stems from the primer applied before gluing the optional light bar to the windshield (no fasteners are used in the attachment of the light bar).
Is that typical in the industry, parts or components being glued onto an exterior surface instead of fastened?
It's not uncommon, particularly for vehicles with composite body panels. Smaller items like door trim, manufacturer logos, are primarily held on with adhesives.
Mid-size accessories like add-on spoilers on trunk lids, or other exterior styling pieces are frequently attached with adhesive.
A larger component commonly attached with adhesives are the rear fender flares on dually pickups. Very commonly these are built with a standard bed, and then the flares to cover the extra wheel width are applied with a 3M VHB-like adhesive strip.
But like anything, there is a way to do it properly, and a way to do it hacky.
Using glue in vehicle assembly is very uncommon.
Most plastic body panels are held on with conformal clips. But they couldn't do that with the metal panels of the cyber truck nor did they want visible fasteners so glue is the only option.
Glue isn't ideal because the part has to be clamped in place while the glue cures which is slow, and quality control is tough because you're doing a little chemistry experiment on your assembly line hundreds of times per day.
Normal cars have this problem with paint and quality control with paint is such a big deal that it has its own separate production line just for painting stuff pre or post assembly
Using composite panels is very uncommon in production vehicles and when they are used (for looks) traditional fasteners are used during assembly often with threaded inserts embedded in the composite panel during manufacture
The lightbars mentioned in the article were an optional non-factory addon that were installed at the Tesla dealership. The steel body panels are not glued on.
Its even stranger because presumably the light requires a wire for power, so using an adhesive doesn't allow them to avoid making at least 1 hole in the roof.
Perhaps it's about minimizing the installation cost at the dealership.
The irony is that you'd imagine that an off-road roof mounted light would be something that you should be able to tighten when you are ... off-road.
I guess field serviceability isn't a design goal for these "off-road" trucks, but appearing "off-road" when going glamping is.
Cybertrucks already come with a 48V 400W auxiliary power connection under the applique strip on the right side of the roof, so there was no need to make a hole in the roof.
There just isn't a lot of options other than adhesive for installing a light bar considering the windshield consumes all of the forward facing real estate (as the roof slopes back from the apex).
Love this overconfident armchair mechanical engineering and product design.
Many vehicles with light bars have them mounted onto a standoff bracket. Why not design a standoff that mounts after the apex (back sloped part), using a piece with an angle complementary to the roof slope, providing a flat surface for the light bar to mount on? Pretty straightforward and honestly exactly what I would expect as an official accessory to a $100K vehicle.
Btw, does Tesla pay you for all your white knighting?
The off road community has been complaining about "off road" vehicles that are not suitable for off road use for decades. Most off "road vehicles" are you can drive it around the house to your backyard if it isn't too muddy/steep. Anyone who really goes off road is looking for a lot of features that are hard to find in a production vehicle. (which is why they often modify production vehicles). A true off road vehicle often looks like a production off-road vehicle, but in production they do cosmetic changes to look the same as what true off-road vehicles do - but the difference cosmetic. Things like both sit high off the ground, but the off road one they look at what mechanical parts are underneath and either protect them or raise them.
> Anyone who really goes off road is looking for a lot of features that are hard to find in a production vehicle. (which is why they often modify production vehicles).
Perhaps this is something that Slate can solve better than Tesla.
https://www.slate.auto
Besides being all hype and no production at this particular juncture, the design of the Slate is not geared towards offroading at all.
The customizations available/planned are cosmetic things not of interest to off road. You can put in a different sound system or change the color - but off road wants things like a skid plate that can handle boulders.
The windshield itself is glued to the body on all modern cars. It makes sense to use glue when attaching things to glass.
Yes. The frame is welded, but more and more the body panels are glued. BMW has been doing this for a while. Modern adhesives are as strong as spot welds for this sort of thing.
3M Very High Bond tape holds many skyscraper windows in place.
Huh, checks out. Interesting!
The windshield itself is only glued in place in the vast majority of modern production cars.
Depends on the industry.
For car companies, no.
But as Tesla reminds us constantly, they're not a car company, they're a robotics / AI company. Those generally focus less on how to build cars.
Tons of cars made by companies other than Tesla have some parts attached by adhesives. Lots of decorative trim pieces and reflectors may be attached with adhesives instead of screws. Its not like there are a lot of screws involved in attaching windshields. There have been other companies with recalls related to adhesive failures, but it seems Tesla has adhesive failures far more frequently than others and seems to use adhesives for a lot more of their body parts.
You shouldn't be getting downvoted, you're right. Adhesives can be incredibly strong, and it's common for even larger panels to be glued on. For whatever reason a lot of British cars in particular (range rover, jaguar, etc) use bonded and riveted frames instead of welding for their aluminum framed vehicles, with lots of components just being glued on.
>Is that typical in the industry, parts or components being glued onto an exterior surface instead of fastened?
Yes. If automotive OEMs can glue it they will.
It's just that other OEMs don't build uninterrupted 5ft light bars so glueing is a much less suitable (think about how much glue contact patch per amount of light bar there is and how little leverage it's mass has over the glue, contrast with normal light) solution for them.
Not to mention that the lightbar is directly in the airstream as you drive. It only has to start lifting a little and getting air underneath. Once that happens any glue joint is doomed.
I think if you did the glue joint perfectly then it would probably be fine, but impeccable QC is not a hallmark of Tesla.
Windshields themselves are glued into the frame, and have been for years. They are a major part of the structure of the vehicle, as well as an important safety device, and there isn't a problem with them comining loose. Badges are attached with double sided tape, but obviously those are a lot smaller than a light bar.
https://insideevs.com/news/447279/video-new-tesla-model-y-gl...
Tesla just doesn't have a good record with adhesives.
More like tossed onto the A-pillars with glue. They don't really do "frames" anymore.
The window frame, I guess. Cars definitely still have frames, it's just integrated with the body rather than the old-fashioned ladder frames et al.
What I meant was that there's no real recess in the A pillars or front of roof for the glass to go "in" to anymore. The edge of the glass gets covered by trim or whatever so you can't see it, unlike the old days (so like 1990s down) where things used gasket.
I can't believe they are still selling that abomination. The styling is not the same as their rest of the lineup, which was a major mistake. I personally wouldn't want a car that relies on glue that much.
They've refreshed the 3 or Y (I'm not sure which) to look more like the Cybertruck. They look awful.
I like the glue, you can fix all these issues yourself by raiding your kids desk for some school glue :)
One man’s abomination is another man’s ideal family car :)
There is no other consumer car that can self-drive from start to finish for an entire trip. That alone will keep me on Tesla until the others catch up. Crash tests have shown that it’s excellent at protecting its occupants, which matters to me as a father of two. The cyberpunk aesthetic, whole home battery backup, and large secured truck bed are just icing on the cake.
I had the trim glue issue fixed proactively (it’s now secured mechanically) and I don’t have a light bar so the new issue doesn’t affect me. Granted, it’s not great that they opted for glue for that use case.
> The cyberpunk aesthetic
the dystopian, authoritarian, hypercapitalist hellscape aesthetic is icing on the cake for a family vehicle?
I do not like the Cybertruck, the company that makes it, nor the man who owns said company.
That being said, I still appreciate seeing them out on the road as an example of what's effectively a concept car that made it to production. It also looks cool and stands apart aesthetically from pretty much everything else on the market, even if the giant 1-piece wiper and black plastic wheel well trim pieces mar the clean lines of the original design.
I'm not sufficiently familiar with the data to say whether or not Cybertrucks or Teslas have significantly more design problems or QC issues than other manufacturers, or if news outlets just latch onto the stories more because Musk's public behavior makes him such a lightning rod for controversy.
Regardless, I think the Cybertruck will go down in history as an iconic car and a symbol of the 2020s, even if it was an objectively bad product (think DeLorean).
I wonder if this extremely dangerours recall was posted on HN...
>Ford Recalls 29,500 F-150 Lightning EVs for Loss of Steering Risk
1. yes, just do a search: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44162184
Nice, thx!
> "Tesla Service will inspect the light bar and install an additional mechanical attachment or replace the light bar using tape to adhere the light bar to the windshield as well as an additional mechanical attachment as necessary, free of charge."
Tape? The fix is to add some tape? At least it's free...
Go watch Mat Alexander rebuild super cars and you will see things like parts attached with glue and fenders shimmed with plastic inserts and welds that look like a drunk did them.
To be fair that is on brand
https://electrek.co/2025/11/13/tesla-recalls-over-10000-powe...
They've also recalled powerwalks. Tesla is great at being visionary, their Achilles heal has always been their weak manufacturing. Which makes sense, its the really hard part about being in the car or battery business.
I'd hardly call it "weak" with gigafactories setting new standards in efficiency, and Tesla being the only "recently" founded US carmaker making massive amounts of cars. All while they have more vertical integration than the competition.
Cybertrucks are for pioneers. If you want something super reliable, just get a "boring" Model Y. They've improved all parts of the design continuously, the cars are indistinguishable from the early ones when it comes to finish quality
> Cybertrucks are for pioneers.
Well, here in NJ at least, Cybertrucks are not for pioneers, but inevitably for wealth signaling of mostly clueless people to show they have cash to throw away.
There are of course many wealth signaling cars, but the Cybertruck is in a special noisome class all its own.
> If you want something super reliable, just get a "boring" Model Y
Not according to the many comments here about Model Y.
Cybertrucks are for pioneers. If you want something super reliable, just get a "boring" Model Y.
What? You think people are paying that kind of money to be beta-test a car?
I don't know how any Tesla investor can justify paying anyone $1 trillion when the products he makes keep falling apart.
Making cars is hard, just ask Ford...
>As of this story's publication, Thursday, September 4, 2025, Ford has issued 109 recalls that have covered 7,871,344 vehicles. Of course, quite a few of those cars are repeat offenders, but you get the point. It's staggering.
>Of those 109 recalls, 26 of them are re-recalls. That means they're recalls on recalls Ford has already carried out,
>Read More: https://www.jalopnik.com/1958179/all-ford-vehicle-recalls-20...
By definition the same people propping up the stock price even with a forward PE of ~200. Lots of wishful thinking.
> Tesla’s fix will involve an additional redundancy to keep the lightbar affixed to the windshield, should the glue fail.
Good news - it only affects 6000 vehicles with the optional lightbar which is dealer installed. Bad news - Tesla finds it ok to let its dealers do glued lightbar installations and can't really fix the glue failing part so they are adding redundancy.
Looking at the actual service manual, there appear to be no fewer than 10 warnings related to the use of the primer alone. There is also a separate step involving cleaning with IPA. This procedure seems like it belongs in a chemistry lab more than a car shop. I can't imagine the average mechanic not fucking this up in some important way.
So the TLDR is an optional non-factory lightbar addon that was added to the top of about 6100 Cybertrucks used an improper adhesive to secure the bar.
I wish they made the Cyber(mini)van instead. oh well
It's a beta release product. Of course it has problems. I don't think any of Cybertruck's growing pains are remarkable.
IIRC, Tesla skipped the industry's normal typical period of real world testing for new platforms. That should have scared off most buyers.
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Cybertruck should have been rolled out like the Roadster. Exclusive, prestige, wrap-around customer service. The superfans would happily pay to participate.
There's always a (modest) market for niche vehicles, like the Cybertruck. eg Subaru Brat, VW The Thing (name?).
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Cybertruck has so much innovation, cool tech. 48V, drive-by-wire, the modular internet bus thing, 4 wheel steering, even bigger castings, etc.
Tesla was (initially) right to de-risk those things by using them in a (much) lower volume vehicle. And field test everything ahead of the high volume Model 2 / Robotaxi.
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The big, IMHO, mistake was juicing the stock price by hyping Cybertruck as Tesla's next home run.
oNe TrIlLiOn DoLlArS
Now check how many recalls there are with companies like Ford. Recalls are pretty much standard in the vehicle industry.
> Now check how many recalls there are with companies like Ford. Recalls are pretty much standard in the vehicle industry.
As of this story's publication, Thursday, September 4, 2025, Ford has issued 109 recalls that have covered 7,871,344 vehicles. Of course, quite a few of those cars are repeat offenders, but you get the point. It's staggering.
Of those 109 recalls, 26 of them are re-recalls. That means they're recalls on recalls Ford has already carried out
What a stupid car.
If you think the car is stupid, you haven't seen the company CEO.
If you think their CEO is stupid, you haven't seen all the other company CEOs.
Its american car, whatever that means. Rest of the world considers it properly fugly and most western countries ban it due to lack of any pedestrian protection.
Can it self drive through a lake yet?
I guess if you get out to push it is technically driverless