Fascinating. By default, though, this seems like it would just result in low contrast and difficulty reading, unless turned to opaque mode.
The thing I'd love to see, which to the best of my knowledge isn't possible with normal HDMI/DP/etc, is an opaque monitor that allows rendering an alpha channel as actual transparency. That would allow things like setting your desktop background to transparent, so that when you have one non-fullscreen window, the rest of the screen is transparent.
Are there any display technologies or protocols for sending RGBA to a monitor, and letting the monitor handle the alpha?
That could be made to work by stacking a transparent OLED panel in front of a transparent LCD panel. The LCD would absorb light, and the OLED would emit light.
I just tried to search for some examples, but I can't find any. Maybe the displays can't be made thin enough to eliminate parallax between the two images?
I mean you could always tag transparency as extra bits. Presumably both sides of the link would need to understand this. So you'd send an 8bpc signal as idk 10, which gets you 6bpc of transparency. Or you run a faster framerate where 1 in every N frames is a transparency. It could work.
"Unlike traditional monitors that force your eyes to focus at a near distance, Phantom allows you to look through the display and focus on objects at varying distances. This helps reduce eye fatigue during long work sessions by giving your eyes natural opportunities to relax and refocus."
Is there any science behind this or is it just a "sounds about right" claim?
There seems to be real evidence[0] for the idea that focusing on nearby objects like computer screens for hours on end can contribute to the development of myopia. Breaks might help.
I don't see any reason to believe that making the screen transparent rather than looking to the side of it is a better way to look out a window for a break.
I want some VR goggles that are light, only do text, and have focus at infinity or so. Not just 3D convergence at infinity but somehow manage to blur just right so my eyes can focus on it like it's across the street. I'm not an optometrist I'm just a consumer and programmer. A guy can wish.
It’s impossible with near-eyes screens. See mismatch of vergence vs accomodation. The best thing for your eyes is to stay away from any head-mounted ar/vr/what-have-you-r stuff.
That's if you get motion sickness. You'd get temporary discomfort, not myopia. But if you don't get motion sickness, then AR/VR provides the benefit of a greater focal distance than computer monitors, tablets, smartphones, etc.
There is an eye exercise for short-sighted people that involves painting a dot on a window glass and then repeatedly changing focus between the dot and the scenery behind the window.
Basically, focus on the dot for 10 seconds, then on the back. Rinse and repeat several times, 2-3 times a day.
I was given this exercise over 30 years ago and its goal was to stop the worsening of the eyesight. Fwiw, in my case, it seemed to have worked.
I intentionally arrange my desk so that I can look past my monitor. On days where I can't refocus my eyes on something long-distance, I have difficulty focusing my vision after spending 1/3 of the day looking at computer screens. On days where I can refocus my eyes, I can go up to 2/3 of the day without issue.
Calling it a transparent computer monitor makes it sound like it's new technology, when in reality it just a run of the mill teleprompter half-mirror above a run of the mill computer monitor.
You can prioritize both, actually. If you can keep your eyes focused at a longer distance while you’re working, you won’t develop nearsightedness/myopia.
I am not sure if this really does more than maybe helps you take more breaks. You still need to focus your vision on the screen and that is the issue. Just take some transparent object with text or something else on it and try to read. You focus on it. And then try to look through, reading is much harder if even possible at all.
I wonder if this would actually make vision worse, increasing nearsightedness or causing the condition. It seems that dark words on light backgrounds can cause your eyes to elongate over time[0] or other conditions to form, and it seems it is no coincidence that many readers require glasses.
Would the same occur with dark mode on a transparent background? While I am not saying that it would negatively effect the eyes, I am skeptical of this claim of letting the eyes relax, it seems like marketing.
[0] Wagner, S., Strasser, T. Impact of text contrast polarity on the retinal activity in myopes and emmetropes using modified pattern ERG. Sci Rep 13, 11101 (2023). https://doi.org/10.1038/s41598-023-38192-9
I always bitch about how stupid of an idea transparent and holographic displays are in most applications and their overuse in sci-fi, so of course some jackass needs to try to make it a reality. HUDs/AR have their limited uses, but trying to read and concentrate on one of these would be a god damned nightmare.
Not sure how it protects your vision. So, they say take an eye break to relieve the strain, presumably with focussing on a fixed point. These guys are saying that hey you can instantly focus on something far away and carry on working without even looking away from the screen! That doesn't sound like an eye break to me, and it doesn't sound like it protects your vision at all.
I mean, it looks pretty cool but I think their marketing department is not aiming it at my cynical self
I feel like it's likely misleading, too. Eye breaks are about changing your focal plane, and if you're looking beyond the monitor to rest your eyes, you won't be seeing the screen.
You can experience this with a window with dry erase markers. Focus at a far off point and the dry erase is illegible and may not even disturb your far vision. Focus at the glass and you can read whatever you wrote (subject to penmanship).
Heads up displays often have optics to project onto a medium distance focal plane, otherwise your eyes have to work harder and you're not really able to see the scene and the display at the same time.
While I am not particularly interested in the design, I am intrigued by the idea of making your own monitor. I have had some ideas about features I would like in a monitor before. Are there some boards out there that are easy to hack on to add firmware features etc?
Feels like a problem you could solve more completely by switching to a projector. Or some other really large screen—but you need something big enough to fill your field of view from many feet away.
Looks like it functions like a teleprompter. The actual display is flat on the desk facing up, and reflected at you through a piece of glass set at 45 degrees, with a second piece of switchable "privacy glass" behind it to provide an opaque backdrop when desired. Since you're looking at a reflection of the display, viewing it from the side as in that image breaks the alignment and cuts it off.
My story is I’ve been obsessed with my eye health for years. I have high myopia and was a software engineer and often get blurry vision after a long work day. It’s very frustrating that there are no good solutions out there for digital eye strain. Doctors will tell you “just take more breaks” but that doesn’t feel sustainable when I have to spend half of my waking hours or more in front of a screen every single day for work. I feel that screens are the root cause - a technology problem that deserves a technology solution. I wanted to do everything possible to prevent eye strain on the day to day, and worsening vision in the long term, while still using a computer.
We’ve worked with Stanford ophthalmologists to bring clinically grounded perspectives to our first product.
Our goal is to help you use a computer for hours without eye strain, and for kids, to maybe even prevent myopia progression. For those curious I have more details below. If you have any questions feel free to drop your email on the bottom of this link and I’ll reach out https://www.visualinstruments.co/phantom/display.
——————
More details:
On digital eye strain
- If you go to an eye doctor complaining of digital eye strain they’ll tell you to do the 20/20/20 rule - look 20 feet away every 20 minutes.
- The point of the 20/20/20 rule is switching your depth of focus, which exercises your focusing (ciliary) muscle through its full range of motion.
- Our display helps you switch your depth of focus much more frequently because you can look through it.
- Looking through a screen is much easier than moving your head and eyes away from a regular screen.
- Frequent focus switching prevents accommodative spasm (a big component of eye strain)
On myopia progression
- Mostly a problem for kids, but adult myopia progression is more common now
- Research suggests that increasing ambient light exposure is protective against myopia progression in children (see ref).
- Our screen helps you get more ambient light to your eyes because it can be pointed out a window or even used outside. Most screens can’t be comfortably viewed outside, but ours is an order of magnitude brighter than most screens (several thousand nits peak brightness)
Everyone’s eye health is basically getting put through the meat grinder because of screen time nowadays - we want to change that.
Down the line we hope to add in a bunch of software + eye tracking to track your eye health and intervene on your behalf to protect your vision.
Why does it need to be novel? It's (in theory!) a product you can buy. There's a bunch of different car companies & phone companies & writers & stuff, right?
In the pilot episode of Banshee (2013), a character has transparent monitors (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PiIhMs4k88) which never showed up again. They seemed higher tech than anything else in the series and I was never able to find information on them.
(Monitor-sized HUD, the image is at some not-that-close-distance [I assume]. There is probably a relatively restrictive eyebox to be able to see the image.)
And, the focal plane is the same as a regular monitor because it appears to lack optics to create a larger virtual image several meters away.
The same thing could be done with a portable helmet-mounted display with proper optics, take up zero dedicated desk space, and not require external lighting to operate. A smaller/lighter AR HMD might be more useful, practical, and robust than solutions emphasizing all-in-one VR or are static displays. I think the Quest and Vision VR all-in-ones are doomed because VR is a cursed category that's not practical enough by itself without also being in a very lightweight AR form-factor for everyday other uses.
I don't see who wants to buy this except someone who has a Balans chair and a DataHand Pro II in Dvorak layout. No offense, but that's a tiny, tiny market. I think underground and geodesic homes are cool too, but these are hard to square with zoning and permitting requirements.
Fascinating. By default, though, this seems like it would just result in low contrast and difficulty reading, unless turned to opaque mode.
The thing I'd love to see, which to the best of my knowledge isn't possible with normal HDMI/DP/etc, is an opaque monitor that allows rendering an alpha channel as actual transparency. That would allow things like setting your desktop background to transparent, so that when you have one non-fullscreen window, the rest of the screen is transparent.
Are there any display technologies or protocols for sending RGBA to a monitor, and letting the monitor handle the alpha?
That could be made to work by stacking a transparent OLED panel in front of a transparent LCD panel. The LCD would absorb light, and the OLED would emit light.
I just tried to search for some examples, but I can't find any. Maybe the displays can't be made thin enough to eliminate parallax between the two images?
What if you just put a piece of paper behind it?
I mean you could always tag transparency as extra bits. Presumably both sides of the link would need to understand this. So you'd send an 8bpc signal as idk 10, which gets you 6bpc of transparency. Or you run a faster framerate where 1 in every N frames is a transparency. It could work.
For displayport you could use MST
"Unlike traditional monitors that force your eyes to focus at a near distance, Phantom allows you to look through the display and focus on objects at varying distances. This helps reduce eye fatigue during long work sessions by giving your eyes natural opportunities to relax and refocus."
Is there any science behind this or is it just a "sounds about right" claim?
There seems to be real evidence[0] for the idea that focusing on nearby objects like computer screens for hours on end can contribute to the development of myopia. Breaks might help.
I don't see any reason to believe that making the screen transparent rather than looking to the side of it is a better way to look out a window for a break.
[0] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34622560/
I want some VR goggles that are light, only do text, and have focus at infinity or so. Not just 3D convergence at infinity but somehow manage to blur just right so my eyes can focus on it like it's across the street. I'm not an optometrist I'm just a consumer and programmer. A guy can wish.
It’s impossible with near-eyes screens. See mismatch of vergence vs accomodation. The best thing for your eyes is to stay away from any head-mounted ar/vr/what-have-you-r stuff.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vergence-accommodation_conflic...
That's if you get motion sickness. You'd get temporary discomfort, not myopia. But if you don't get motion sickness, then AR/VR provides the benefit of a greater focal distance than computer monitors, tablets, smartphones, etc.
Maybe the text editor could fly around occasionally. Might be a little annoying but kind of fun.
Having the whole desktop gradually change focal distance over ~an hour seems like it’d probably do the trick in a less distracting way.
How about AR glasses? The focal distance on mine is roughly 4 meters.
There is an eye exercise for short-sighted people that involves painting a dot on a window glass and then repeatedly changing focus between the dot and the scenery behind the window.
Basically, focus on the dot for 10 seconds, then on the back. Rinse and repeat several times, 2-3 times a day.
I was given this exercise over 30 years ago and its goal was to stop the worsening of the eyesight. Fwiw, in my case, it seemed to have worked.
For what it’s worth, i didn’t know about this and in the last 7 years my eyesight didn’t get any worse. I have -1/-1.5
And i work 8 hours in front of a computer
See this article on the growing prevelance of myopia: https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/nov/14/eyeballs-scr...
I intentionally arrange my desk so that I can look past my monitor. On days where I can't refocus my eyes on something long-distance, I have difficulty focusing my vision after spending 1/3 of the day looking at computer screens. On days where I can refocus my eyes, I can go up to 2/3 of the day without issue.
Calling it a transparent computer monitor makes it sound like it's new technology, when in reality it just a run of the mill teleprompter half-mirror above a run of the mill computer monitor.
No thanks. I have a HUD in my car that I can hardly read.
Want to protect your eyesight when viewing a computer monitor? Increase your ambient lighting levels, sit farther back, and take frequent breaks.
I also have a HUD in my car and I can read it just fine, even in bright sunlight.
It’s quite difficult to take a lot of breaks when you’re focused on work.
Life is a series of compromises. Whether you prioritize your work or your health is up to you, and I believe worth continuous debate.
You can prioritize both, actually. If you can keep your eyes focused at a longer distance while you’re working, you won’t develop nearsightedness/myopia.
I am not sure if this really does more than maybe helps you take more breaks. You still need to focus your vision on the screen and that is the issue. Just take some transparent object with text or something else on it and try to read. You focus on it. And then try to look through, reading is much harder if even possible at all.
I wonder if this would actually make vision worse, increasing nearsightedness or causing the condition. It seems that dark words on light backgrounds can cause your eyes to elongate over time[0] or other conditions to form, and it seems it is no coincidence that many readers require glasses.
Would the same occur with dark mode on a transparent background? While I am not saying that it would negatively effect the eyes, I am skeptical of this claim of letting the eyes relax, it seems like marketing.
[0] Wagner, S., Strasser, T. Impact of text contrast polarity on the retinal activity in myopes and emmetropes using modified pattern ERG. Sci Rep 13, 11101 (2023). https://doi.org/10.1038/s41598-023-38192-9
I always bitch about how stupid of an idea transparent and holographic displays are in most applications and their overuse in sci-fi, so of course some jackass needs to try to make it a reality. HUDs/AR have their limited uses, but trying to read and concentrate on one of these would be a god damned nightmare.
Not sure how it protects your vision. So, they say take an eye break to relieve the strain, presumably with focussing on a fixed point. These guys are saying that hey you can instantly focus on something far away and carry on working without even looking away from the screen! That doesn't sound like an eye break to me, and it doesn't sound like it protects your vision at all.
I mean, it looks pretty cool but I think their marketing department is not aiming it at my cynical self
I feel like it's likely misleading, too. Eye breaks are about changing your focal plane, and if you're looking beyond the monitor to rest your eyes, you won't be seeing the screen.
You can experience this with a window with dry erase markers. Focus at a far off point and the dry erase is illegible and may not even disturb your far vision. Focus at the glass and you can read whatever you wrote (subject to penmanship).
Heads up displays often have optics to project onto a medium distance focal plane, otherwise your eyes have to work harder and you're not really able to see the scene and the display at the same time.
I agree. There are other displays you can use with a greater focal distance: AR glasses, VR headsets, TVs, and projectors.
But we haven’t seen the actual product yet.
Does eye strain even damage your vision long term?
Your eyeballs elongate when you keep straining them to look at nearby objects for long periods of time.
Temporarily, no? I haven't read of any studies that corroborate any vision issues from eye strain. I thought this was an urban myth
While I am not particularly interested in the design, I am intrigued by the idea of making your own monitor. I have had some ideas about features I would like in a monitor before. Are there some boards out there that are easy to hack on to add firmware features etc?
Feels like a problem you could solve more completely by switching to a projector. Or some other really large screen—but you need something big enough to fill your field of view from many feet away.
True. It requires more space, but it’s been done: https://sofiapandelea.medium.com/monitor-replacement-using-a...
http://nixon-development.com/fp/nearsightedness.htm
Amazing packaging for what is effectively a teleprompter.
s/packaging/branding/
The product packaging itself doesn't look that great IMO.
This is the best waiting list I've seen in a long time. I've seen that monitor so much in science fiction.
Finally, I can be one of those "hackers" that I constantly see stock photos of!
What's going on in that second image?
Looks like it functions like a teleprompter. The actual display is flat on the desk facing up, and reflected at you through a piece of glass set at 45 degrees, with a second piece of switchable "privacy glass" behind it to provide an opaque backdrop when desired. Since you're looking at a reflection of the display, viewing it from the side as in that image breaks the alignment and cuts it off.
Hey everyone my team and I created this product.
Really appreciate the comments.
My story is I’ve been obsessed with my eye health for years. I have high myopia and was a software engineer and often get blurry vision after a long work day. It’s very frustrating that there are no good solutions out there for digital eye strain. Doctors will tell you “just take more breaks” but that doesn’t feel sustainable when I have to spend half of my waking hours or more in front of a screen every single day for work. I feel that screens are the root cause - a technology problem that deserves a technology solution. I wanted to do everything possible to prevent eye strain on the day to day, and worsening vision in the long term, while still using a computer.
We’ve worked with Stanford ophthalmologists to bring clinically grounded perspectives to our first product.
Our goal is to help you use a computer for hours without eye strain, and for kids, to maybe even prevent myopia progression. For those curious I have more details below. If you have any questions feel free to drop your email on the bottom of this link and I’ll reach out https://www.visualinstruments.co/phantom/display.
——————
More details:
On digital eye strain
- If you go to an eye doctor complaining of digital eye strain they’ll tell you to do the 20/20/20 rule - look 20 feet away every 20 minutes.
- The point of the 20/20/20 rule is switching your depth of focus, which exercises your focusing (ciliary) muscle through its full range of motion.
- Our display helps you switch your depth of focus much more frequently because you can look through it.
- Looking through a screen is much easier than moving your head and eyes away from a regular screen.
- Frequent focus switching prevents accommodative spasm (a big component of eye strain)
On myopia progression
- Mostly a problem for kids, but adult myopia progression is more common now
- Research suggests that increasing ambient light exposure is protective against myopia progression in children (see ref).
- Our screen helps you get more ambient light to your eyes because it can be pointed out a window or even used outside. Most screens can’t be comfortably viewed outside, but ours is an order of magnitude brighter than most screens (several thousand nits peak brightness)
Everyone’s eye health is basically getting put through the meat grinder because of screen time nowadays - we want to change that. Down the line we hope to add in a bunch of software + eye tracking to track your eye health and intervene on your behalf to protect your vision.
Ref: https://www.myopiaprofile.com/articles/the-visual-environmen...
Looks like it's just a HUD married to electro-chromatic glass. Nothing novel here.
Why does it need to be novel? It's (in theory!) a product you can buy. There's a bunch of different car companies & phone companies & writers & stuff, right?
the thing is so big I dunno where I can put my keyboard...
so you need to put it right in front of a window?
I guess you could arrange your room so that when you’re looking through the monitor you’re looking across the room.
Only country villa owners and rich loft dwellers whom work only for 4 hours 4 days a week from floor-to-ceiling windows need apply.
Just don't use it to observe a solar eclipse. ;@) sorry X@)
In the pilot episode of Banshee (2013), a character has transparent monitors (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PiIhMs4k88) which never showed up again. They seemed higher tech than anything else in the series and I was never able to find information on them.
How many people are going to want this at only 24 inches?
As I write this, 7 / 10 "founder" models are available. So, three. Perhaps this is more in line with the nautical use of that word.
wouldn't a smart sales strategy be to always show that some of the available items have sold, even if they haven't?
Implying that they're lying in order to collect emails for marketing purposes? Unheard of.
(Monitor-sized HUD, the image is at some not-that-close-distance [I assume]. There is probably a relatively restrictive eyebox to be able to see the image.)
A bold claim without evidence.
And, the focal plane is the same as a regular monitor because it appears to lack optics to create a larger virtual image several meters away.
The same thing could be done with a portable helmet-mounted display with proper optics, take up zero dedicated desk space, and not require external lighting to operate. A smaller/lighter AR HMD might be more useful, practical, and robust than solutions emphasizing all-in-one VR or are static displays. I think the Quest and Vision VR all-in-ones are doomed because VR is a cursed category that's not practical enough by itself without also being in a very lightweight AR form-factor for everyday other uses.
I don't see who wants to buy this except someone who has a Balans chair and a DataHand Pro II in Dvorak layout. No offense, but that's a tiny, tiny market. I think underground and geodesic homes are cool too, but these are hard to square with zoning and permitting requirements.