I’ve been looking for something like this exact form factor but with a giant battery and usb-c displayport out and PD out to use with a pair of video display glasses like the XReal Pros.
Could have real space and weight saving potential, better privacy on plane rides, and a nice large virtual display with better ergonomics to go along with it.
I don't think this is a competitive product. You can get a more powerful PC on Amazon for less. It's neat, but more of a fun gadget than a good cost-benefit offering. The Raspberry Pi foundation isn't going in a good direction IMHO.
> The Raspberry Pi foundation isn't going in a good direction IMHO.
I disagree. This is exactly the type of product they should be building: It’s fun. It’s self contained. It lights up and looks intriguing to young people. It has a great community. It has plenty of documentation. You can expand from it and tap into a big universe of Raspberry Pi projects. You can store it away when you or your kids are done with it. You can connect it to your TV easily.
This is perfect for everything the Raspberry Pi Foundation set out to do: Be an educational ecosystem that was easy to access.
So many people are confused by Raspberry Pi because they think it’s supposed to be the most powerful or most bang for your buck general compute machine out there. That’s not their goal or their market.
As you said, if someone wants a fast general purpose PC they shouldn’t even be looking at this. That’s not what it’s for.
Education is their mission, but people say this in defense of every product they release these days. The primary enabler of the mission is not the educational sales themselves, it's the sales for embedded or general tinkering use.
I think what people really overlook is how much brand recognition and mindshare "Raspberry Pi" has from the earlier products. That carries a very long way, but if none of the new products are supposed to scratch that same market itch then there will eventually be a problem. It reminds me a bit of folks who felt Mozilla should only care about the overall mission for the web instead of making sure Firefox grows to continue supporting that mission. They couldn't rest on their laurels forever to only do the mission either, and are in a tough spot for it.
> The primary enabler of the mission is not the educational sales themselves, it's the sales for embedded or general tinkering use.
They’re doing perfectly fine in this area.
This product is an additional option that brings their product line to even more people. I don’t understand why it makes some people upset when they offer more options. They haven’t taken away anything from their core product line. This is a variant of it. It’s not for you, but it is prefer for many
As mentioned, the same is said of the main product line these days. There they've gone a long way up in TCO without an equivalent feature/performance differentiation over the competition to show for it. They can't all be the non-competitive ones the average non-k12 student is supposed to avoid looking at each time the conversation is brought up. Either the main line needs to become hyper competitive again or the accessory lines can take the role, just not "neither".
I think the Pico 2 and maybe compute module variant (depending on sub-niche use case) are still competitively interesting in their own right, but feel the rest are largely help up by the brand name at this point and I wonder how much of the revenue those add up to (Pico in particular, since its market is in the cup of coffee range).
Of course the brand value will hold things for many years to come (how many have 3 pis in a drawer just because the new one comes out and folks still buy it on name before thinking if it's worth it?) so they've got plenty of time to strike gold again for now.
> There they've gone a long way up in TCO without an equivalent feature/performance differentiation over the competition to show for it.
Yet they’re still selling out quickly and it can still be hard to find the model you want without shopping different distributors.
I think people like you who comparison shop based on the specs in a table don’t realize you’re simply not the target market. The target market will take the better ecosystem, support, and documentation even if it comes with less performance.
The people who want the fastest SBC and don’t mind spending a day or week chasing the right kernel fork to solve their problem are not the target audience.
Agree. I'd never heard of this before. It's lovely. I'm guessing they are aiming for what 8-bit micros where during the 80s. Which is oddly what recall that the original pi was supposed to be. I have no reason what's so ever to buy this, but I really want to.
In a keyboard format? Something running a simple OS that doesn't link you or your family identity and data straight into Google?
Something a less technical parent can wire up in the family room from a trusted brand without having to do a ton of research for not only reputable brands but also vendors on amazon?
Educational mission aside this is a good alternative to a chromebook.
> You can get a more powerful PC on Amazon for less.
I'm not sure that really matters. It's well known that most people are not "homo economicus" rational / optimizing agents seeking to min/max every purchase decision. A lot of other factors go into purchases, and name recognition, brand loyalty, and general goodwill count for a lot with most people. Of course there are eventual limits to that, and any brand can be displaced if they are too cavalier with regards to meeting consumer needs. But in this case, I strongly suspect the people that want a Raspberry Pi 500+ are the people that want a Raspberry Pi 500+ and that's the end of it. They're not going to buy the competing product because it's $20 cheaper.
Also, something Jeff has pointed out in his videos on many occasions, as I recall: don't underestimate the importance of the associated software (eg, a working, supported OS with usable drivers that work on the device) as well as the community (support forums, etc) and the overall ecosystem (supported / trusted add-ons, mods, etc). To a lot of people it's that stuff that keeps them coming back to the RPi brand.
I'm confused as to why they decided to build this when they already previously built the Raspberry Pi 400 keyboard all-in-one for under $100. As a casual observer, I don't know who they've built this $200 machine for. A cheap all-in-one for education totally makes sense, but this is a bit too much. Maybe someone more in the know can help us understand what direction the company's going?
>I'm confused as to why they decided to build this when they already previously built the Raspberry Pi 400 keyboard all-in-one for under $100.
As you would have been told in the second paragraph had you actually read the article, this is not a replacement for the existing Pi 500, which costs about that much MSRP.
You're right, I forgot about the Pi 500 which was already that price. Still, it doesn't answer my question about who this is for.
Is their strategy to branch out to more premium prices? Did they see enough uptake of the Pi 500 that they figured there's enough of a niche to want to pay $200 for a bit more?
It's just interesting to me that they started out making cheap little educational devices that were great for the price and now they're making $200 devices. I understand there's a profit-making side to Raspberry Pi now that they're not strictly just a charity, so this must be some long-term bet.
My first thought was that what you want for education is a best bang for your buck computer so that a student has an affordable option. In that sense the most competitive option would be the best choice.
But I’m probably missing some extra feature or idea that makes the pi a better option even if comparatively more expensive? What’s is it?
The best option for education is going to be the system with the best educational resources. Performance per dollar isn’t really relevant, because educational uses don’t need good performance. Most of what you do in an educational environment are simple use cases.
Back in the 90s, schools were filled with either IBM or Apple computers. Not because they were cheap, but because they were predictably compatible with the types of software that educators wanted to use in those environments. They could’ve bought cheaper clones.
Those days have long passed and most of the money is made on the b2b/industrial side. But these days raspberry pis only have a mode in software compatibility and LTS and those are slowly dwindling away. I'd be hard pressed to buy a raspberry pi of any kind these days when RK35XX Devices are available and beat pis at almost every task.
I really hope the pi foundation gets their head out of their behinds and stars competing again.
Yes that why you should buy the slower, worse version for more money. It's not about that. Or competing. It's about buying a brandname original Raspberry Pi^tm^(r) and not the cheaper faster alternative.
You can get a more powerful PC on Amazon for less.
I think you might be missing the point. If you’re looking for the cheapest, most cost-effective computer, and you’re willing to shop for it on Amazon, then I know you’re missing the point.
You get an Intel CPU glued to some generic motherboard. If you don’t need GPIO a random N100 PC can do everything a Raspberry can (and you can get an adapter for that).
Some of the "no-name outfits", like Geekom and Beelink, have built good reputations.
It's possible to score a name-brand, refurbished "thin client" PC for around Raspberry Pi 3 dollars. I scored an HP one for $25, and it fits nicely in the "small fanless PC" niche, runs Linux, and is faster than the corresponding Pi would be.
is this... just racism, actually? there are a million cool electronics on Amazon from random Shenzhen sellers and while I prefer that my electronics come from countries with better human rights records it's not flea market dreck, it's very much the best stuff you can buy, that you can't get anywhere else.
the attitude that stuff from brands you don't recognize from Shenzhen are "flea market dreck" is exactly why Chinese brands like DVI are winning
I don’t see what racism has to do with it. Most of my electronic components originate from China one way or another, but there’s a real difference in quality between established brands and the random stuff popping up on amazon in the last few years. To review a few experiences I’ve had:
- Wires I bought for breadboard prototyping turned out to not be made of copper after I noticed them sticking to a magnet on my workbench.
- A power supply module I purchased appeared to be using counterfeit chips. The switching frequency didn’t match the TI data sheet for the markings on the chip.
- I wasted several days trying to get an sdcard module to work. I gave up and ordered from adafruit instead and those worked on the first try.
Not to mention the well documented problems with counterfeit sdcards, etc.
With mini PCs, there are a million different ways bargain brands can cut corners that won’t show up immediately.
>is this... just racism, actually?
Perhaps but mostly a result of decades of bad consumer experiences. From Malware preinstalled to terrible software support and downright dangerous electronics, chinese hardware from alibaba amazon and ebay is rightfully regarded as questionable, potentially even dangerous until proven otherwise. And without a track record in software updates, any company selling any internet or god forbid cloud connected device is plain irresposible to use until proven otherwise.
I’ve been looking for something like this exact form factor but with a giant battery and usb-c displayport out and PD out to use with a pair of video display glasses like the XReal Pros. Could have real space and weight saving potential, better privacy on plane rides, and a nice large virtual display with better ergonomics to go along with it.
I don't think this is a competitive product. You can get a more powerful PC on Amazon for less. It's neat, but more of a fun gadget than a good cost-benefit offering. The Raspberry Pi foundation isn't going in a good direction IMHO.
> The Raspberry Pi foundation isn't going in a good direction IMHO.
I disagree. This is exactly the type of product they should be building: It’s fun. It’s self contained. It lights up and looks intriguing to young people. It has a great community. It has plenty of documentation. You can expand from it and tap into a big universe of Raspberry Pi projects. You can store it away when you or your kids are done with it. You can connect it to your TV easily.
This is perfect for everything the Raspberry Pi Foundation set out to do: Be an educational ecosystem that was easy to access.
So many people are confused by Raspberry Pi because they think it’s supposed to be the most powerful or most bang for your buck general compute machine out there. That’s not their goal or their market.
As you said, if someone wants a fast general purpose PC they shouldn’t even be looking at this. That’s not what it’s for.
Education is their mission, but people say this in defense of every product they release these days. The primary enabler of the mission is not the educational sales themselves, it's the sales for embedded or general tinkering use.
I think what people really overlook is how much brand recognition and mindshare "Raspberry Pi" has from the earlier products. That carries a very long way, but if none of the new products are supposed to scratch that same market itch then there will eventually be a problem. It reminds me a bit of folks who felt Mozilla should only care about the overall mission for the web instead of making sure Firefox grows to continue supporting that mission. They couldn't rest on their laurels forever to only do the mission either, and are in a tough spot for it.
> The primary enabler of the mission is not the educational sales themselves, it's the sales for embedded or general tinkering use.
They’re doing perfectly fine in this area.
This product is an additional option that brings their product line to even more people. I don’t understand why it makes some people upset when they offer more options. They haven’t taken away anything from their core product line. This is a variant of it. It’s not for you, but it is prefer for many
As mentioned, the same is said of the main product line these days. There they've gone a long way up in TCO without an equivalent feature/performance differentiation over the competition to show for it. They can't all be the non-competitive ones the average non-k12 student is supposed to avoid looking at each time the conversation is brought up. Either the main line needs to become hyper competitive again or the accessory lines can take the role, just not "neither".
I think the Pico 2 and maybe compute module variant (depending on sub-niche use case) are still competitively interesting in their own right, but feel the rest are largely help up by the brand name at this point and I wonder how much of the revenue those add up to (Pico in particular, since its market is in the cup of coffee range).
Of course the brand value will hold things for many years to come (how many have 3 pis in a drawer just because the new one comes out and folks still buy it on name before thinking if it's worth it?) so they've got plenty of time to strike gold again for now.
> There they've gone a long way up in TCO without an equivalent feature/performance differentiation over the competition to show for it.
Yet they’re still selling out quickly and it can still be hard to find the model you want without shopping different distributors.
I think people like you who comparison shop based on the specs in a table don’t realize you’re simply not the target market. The target market will take the better ecosystem, support, and documentation even if it comes with less performance.
The people who want the fastest SBC and don’t mind spending a day or week chasing the right kernel fork to solve their problem are not the target audience.
Agree. I'd never heard of this before. It's lovely. I'm guessing they are aiming for what 8-bit micros where during the 80s. Which is oddly what recall that the original pi was supposed to be. I have no reason what's so ever to buy this, but I really want to.
Edit: reminds me of this, https://www.officestationery.co.uk/product/fuze-keyboard-wit...
Some kid is going to get inspired. Hacking the shit out of the lights under the keyboard on this and have a lifelong muse due to it. I’m sure of it.
In a keyboard format? Something running a simple OS that doesn't link you or your family identity and data straight into Google?
Something a less technical parent can wire up in the family room from a trusted brand without having to do a ton of research for not only reputable brands but also vendors on amazon?
Educational mission aside this is a good alternative to a chromebook.
> You can get a more powerful PC on Amazon for less.
I'm not sure that really matters. It's well known that most people are not "homo economicus" rational / optimizing agents seeking to min/max every purchase decision. A lot of other factors go into purchases, and name recognition, brand loyalty, and general goodwill count for a lot with most people. Of course there are eventual limits to that, and any brand can be displaced if they are too cavalier with regards to meeting consumer needs. But in this case, I strongly suspect the people that want a Raspberry Pi 500+ are the people that want a Raspberry Pi 500+ and that's the end of it. They're not going to buy the competing product because it's $20 cheaper.
Also, something Jeff has pointed out in his videos on many occasions, as I recall: don't underestimate the importance of the associated software (eg, a working, supported OS with usable drivers that work on the device) as well as the community (support forums, etc) and the overall ecosystem (supported / trusted add-ons, mods, etc). To a lot of people it's that stuff that keeps them coming back to the RPi brand.
I'm confused as to why they decided to build this when they already previously built the Raspberry Pi 400 keyboard all-in-one for under $100. As a casual observer, I don't know who they've built this $200 machine for. A cheap all-in-one for education totally makes sense, but this is a bit too much. Maybe someone more in the know can help us understand what direction the company's going?
>I'm confused as to why they decided to build this when they already previously built the Raspberry Pi 400 keyboard all-in-one for under $100.
As you would have been told in the second paragraph had you actually read the article, this is not a replacement for the existing Pi 500, which costs about that much MSRP.
You're right, I forgot about the Pi 500 which was already that price. Still, it doesn't answer my question about who this is for.
Is their strategy to branch out to more premium prices? Did they see enough uptake of the Pi 500 that they figured there's enough of a niche to want to pay $200 for a bit more?
It's just interesting to me that they started out making cheap little educational devices that were great for the price and now they're making $200 devices. I understand there's a profit-making side to Raspberry Pi now that they're not strictly just a charity, so this must be some long-term bet.
I don't think they are out to compete with anything, but provide educational tools and an amazing community.
So I believe a lot of people simply misunderstand what the Raspberry Pi foundation is trying to do.
Can you educate me on that?
My first thought was that what you want for education is a best bang for your buck computer so that a student has an affordable option. In that sense the most competitive option would be the best choice.
But I’m probably missing some extra feature or idea that makes the pi a better option even if comparatively more expensive? What’s is it?
The best option for education is going to be the system with the best educational resources. Performance per dollar isn’t really relevant, because educational uses don’t need good performance. Most of what you do in an educational environment are simple use cases.
Back in the 90s, schools were filled with either IBM or Apple computers. Not because they were cheap, but because they were predictably compatible with the types of software that educators wanted to use in those environments. They could’ve bought cheaper clones.
That doesn’t really answer my question though, what makes this device have more “educational resources”?
Pretty much any computer that runs windows or a Linux distro will have access to equivalent tooling, wouldn’t it?
Raspberry Pi was always intended to be an educational device. It doesn't have to be strictly the best performer.
Those days have long passed and most of the money is made on the b2b/industrial side. But these days raspberry pis only have a mode in software compatibility and LTS and those are slowly dwindling away. I'd be hard pressed to buy a raspberry pi of any kind these days when RK35XX Devices are available and beat pis at almost every task.
I really hope the pi foundation gets their head out of their behinds and stars competing again.
Not every thing in life is about money or competing.
Yes that why you should buy the slower, worse version for more money. It's not about that. Or competing. It's about buying a brandname original Raspberry Pi^tm^(r) and not the cheaper faster alternative.
You can get a more powerful PC on Amazon for less.
I think you might be missing the point. If you’re looking for the cheapest, most cost-effective computer, and you’re willing to shop for it on Amazon, then I know you’re missing the point.
More powerful PC from whom? Some no-name outfit? Good luck sorting through the flea market dreck.
Raspberry Pi has built the best brand in this space.
You get an Intel CPU glued to some generic motherboard. If you don’t need GPIO a random N100 PC can do everything a Raspberry can (and you can get an adapter for that).
Some of the "no-name outfits", like Geekom and Beelink, have built good reputations.
It's possible to score a name-brand, refurbished "thin client" PC for around Raspberry Pi 3 dollars. I scored an HP one for $25, and it fits nicely in the "small fanless PC" niche, runs Linux, and is faster than the corresponding Pi would be.
is this... just racism, actually? there are a million cool electronics on Amazon from random Shenzhen sellers and while I prefer that my electronics come from countries with better human rights records it's not flea market dreck, it's very much the best stuff you can buy, that you can't get anywhere else.
the attitude that stuff from brands you don't recognize from Shenzhen are "flea market dreck" is exactly why Chinese brands like DVI are winning
I don’t see what racism has to do with it. Most of my electronic components originate from China one way or another, but there’s a real difference in quality between established brands and the random stuff popping up on amazon in the last few years. To review a few experiences I’ve had:
- Wires I bought for breadboard prototyping turned out to not be made of copper after I noticed them sticking to a magnet on my workbench.
- A power supply module I purchased appeared to be using counterfeit chips. The switching frequency didn’t match the TI data sheet for the markings on the chip.
- I wasted several days trying to get an sdcard module to work. I gave up and ordered from adafruit instead and those worked on the first try.
Not to mention the well documented problems with counterfeit sdcards, etc.
With mini PCs, there are a million different ways bargain brands can cut corners that won’t show up immediately.
>is this... just racism, actually? Perhaps but mostly a result of decades of bad consumer experiences. From Malware preinstalled to terrible software support and downright dangerous electronics, chinese hardware from alibaba amazon and ebay is rightfully regarded as questionable, potentially even dangerous until proven otherwise. And without a track record in software updates, any company selling any internet or god forbid cloud connected device is plain irresposible to use until proven otherwise.
Beautiful, and currently 9 in stock at the Santa Clara Central Computers store. I'm running out the door!
Title is incorrect. Should be 500+
As someone who grew up on Atari 8-bits, they missed a trick by not calling this the 800.
Because amiga 500 is way superior to Atari ;-)
At a glance, the keyboard looks uncomfortably small compared to the author’s hands.
It’s a really neat idea, don’t get me wrong, I’m just not sure how much serious typing I’d really be able to do on it.
$200 is $150 too much.
What? Where can you find an entire computer with builtin SSD, RAM and keyboard for $50?