For Jury, I would give a "skip question" option. I found one relating to Christianity that I had _no_ idea what the "correct" answer would be based on the two options.
I thought clicking "Ask a new question" then going right back into Jury Duty would give me a new question, but I landed on the same one.
I think the asker providing the two valid responses is flawed. It doesn't allow the "jury" to draw their own conclusion, or provides leading answers (one about "is it rude" to eat by themselves when they're socially exhausted in a work context -- one is "yes they would be offended", the other "no they won't be" -- well, they certainly may be but it is your right to eat alone, so the answer could have been "they may, but you need to take care of yourself").
Yes, skip would be good, but I'd also advocate an option like "I reject the premise of the question".
In legal contexts yes-or-no answers can work because the case can in theory be boiled down to guilty or not. If there is any flaw with the case, the answer should be not guilty.
But let's take the "do I have a moral duty to..." questions used as examples here for contrast. I'd argue you never had a moral duty to attend your sibling's wedding to begin with. But because the question was asked with a weird modifier like "even if it's their 3rd wedding", any answer you give will be inadequate and will just serve to reinforce the flawed premise. Skipping is not enough in my opinion, because even if communicated to the question asker, it doesn't make it clear whether there as an issue on the answerer's side ("I don't know" / "don't feel qualified") or with the question itself.
I don't know. All of this smells fishy. Clearly noone has worked 16 years on this. The whole description is odd. Made by a new HN account. The thing barely works. Sometimes you get stuck in the same question loop. Sometimes buttons are huge.
Is it possible that this is some form of clickjacking site?
The big problem is kinda the same as what happens in push polls -- in that they ask misleading or suggestive questions trying to boil the issue down to a good and bad answer.
The reality for many of these questions is pretty complex.
I'm not saying it's not worthwhile, but I'm saying forcing users to choose on some topics aren't black and white.
It's maybe worthwhile getting information on things like people who aren't knowledgeable, people who don't care or have no preference, or people who don't want to answer because the answers are skewed towards one side.
I think you’re correct in that lots of things aren’t black and white, but the reverse is also true. Lots of arguments end up being over-litigated when a black and white answer (even if imperfect) will suffice.
As with most things like this, you get out what you put in. Ask a biased question, and get a biased answer. At some point, the responsibility has to lie with the user that if they want something like this to be interesting and unbiased, they need to think about ways to use it to accomplish that.
Look, this is good entertainment, you should own up to that and enough with the noble purpose stuff:
> I built JuryNow because I wanted to create a truly objective place to get outside opinions that were not from my peer group, but from 12 people in 12 different countries, different ages, professions, cultures, a truly diverse global objective jury with no algorithms.
You don't collect demographics, and couldn't verify them anyway, so this game doesn't give insight into those dynamics. And the result is not more objective than a social media consensus.
That doesn't mean it isn't fun and even maybe useful in collecting one's thoughts, so go with that.
As a follow up, I'd guide people on asking questions. More context = better answers.
For example, I joined a jury. The question was "Should I go to Belarus?" That's so vague, it doesn't even feel helpful for me to answer. I would much rather the question have said something like "I've always wanted to go to Belarus, but my rent is also due in a week. I only have enough money for one. Where should I spend my money?"
That at least gives me something to work with and weigh in on.
First congrats on launching, from personal experience that's the hard part.
Are there filters or monitoring for the more violent or maleficent types of things that people have a habit of gravitating towards? Depending on the number of people online and the balance, I could easily see groups jumping on and choosing the negative or harmful choice for lolz
Hello there! Thanks so much for trying it! Indeed, there is a filter to weed out any hate speech, self harm content, there is also a feature for jurors to report comments, and there is the User Agreement! But indeed, this was a big worry for me and put me off trying for a long time!
Congrats on the launch! Very nice idea! Looking forward when more people are playing so I get answers from real people. While I was waiting, I had to answer the same question multiple times. Is this by design?
It appears to have either been hugged to death or something broke on the backend - jury duty now just returns the same question about whether or not it is ethical for a startup to sell an ai as a physiologist.
I love the concept. One tiny recommendation: on my phone the page both for voting and to see the voting result requires me to scroll. When content wise it could very easily fit within a single screen what is being displayed.
That is mostly a problem with the results page where i wanted to make a screenshot to show it off to my friends but couldn’t.
Also, i see repeated questions? As in i see one question. I vote, the “bar” moves forward, but i see the same question, so i vote again and the same happens.
So whoever was picking up skateboarding again in their 30s, but just suffered a hip injury after a fall. I voted that it is time for you to give up like four times. (Which i stand by as an opinion, but perhaps I shouldn’t be so overrepresented in your jury?)
so sorry about that! there was a bug 3 months ago (when i was just testing it with family and friends) when that happened, and one random question would repeat! And it's just come back tongiht!! (just as I post on hacker news!) i think it's fixed now! And thank you again!
THank you for this! That's really useful to hear. As you can see it's a very basic MVP for the moment, but I hope that when there are many more regular users and we can expand it, that the mobile app will be better and more user friendly! But thank you for playing!
I would definitely like a skip question button for jury duty. I also think it’s allowing me to vote multiple times on a single question, potentially when the queue is empty.
The premise of this app is undermined by the oversimplified implementation.
Truly diverse panel? You have no idea what the diversity is.
Far removed from your peer group? You have no idea.
"Just a verdict"? Jury duty is not a duty to pronounce judgement. It's a duty deliberate on evidence. There's no evidence, here, and no deliberation.
This is no celebration of collective human intelligence. This is silly and cynical.
Neat concept! Although I was a bit surprised at the AI stand-in's finding. I posed the silly argument that "My neighbor's dog refuses to speak French" with the options "Neighbor is culpable" and "I am clearly an idiot": The final decision was 7/5 in my favor! But seriously, this really is a great idea IMO. The jury-duty-while-you-wait feature also seems like a fair trade-off.
Thanks SO much for trying! Honestly, interacting with real people who have tried my game after thinking about it non stop for 16 years is truly exciting! Indeed, the AI part is necessary (well I don't want to say evil but...) in order to show off he game as it will be, and after posting it on Reddit last week, it was working like a dream with real live juries answering! My dream jury will be age 16 - 99, from every continent, every profession and culture...because I do believe the more diverse the jury, the better the verdict!
> I posed the silly argument that "My neighbor's dog refuses to speak French" with the options "Neighbor is culpable" and "I am clearly an idiot": The final decision was 7/5 in my favor!
People can be trolling. That is the kind of over the top, obviously silly question where I personally might also answer a silly answer. And out of those two the "Neighbor is culpable" is sillyier and funnier.
I asked a question that was 4-0, then suddenly 8 votes came in at once that made the score 4-8, i wonder if that was a UI bug or if the 8 votes were the AI kicking in and they all disagreed with the human answer...
Yawn, I can't get past the filter. Boring.
Please moderate the content of your question before submitting it
Apparently "Furry" is enough to set it off.
For Jury, I would give a "skip question" option. I found one relating to Christianity that I had _no_ idea what the "correct" answer would be based on the two options.
I thought clicking "Ask a new question" then going right back into Jury Duty would give me a new question, but I landed on the same one.
I think the asker providing the two valid responses is flawed. It doesn't allow the "jury" to draw their own conclusion, or provides leading answers (one about "is it rude" to eat by themselves when they're socially exhausted in a work context -- one is "yes they would be offended", the other "no they won't be" -- well, they certainly may be but it is your right to eat alone, so the answer could have been "they may, but you need to take care of yourself").
Skipping unanswerable questions would be good for everyone. Any answer would be misleading.
But answer choices should not be qualified by anything, because that systematically creates unanswerable regions.
There should be Context and Question, narrowed down any way the questioner wants. Then just “Yes” or “No” without qualification.
That is what a jury does.
Or: allow answer qualifications, followed by an automatic “None of the above”.
Anyone getting a lot of the latter is getting accurate feedback that the choices they posted were too narrow.
Without either fix, the basic logic of the utility will often be broken. Maybe both? Allow questions to be yes/no, or n choices with NOTA.
Even one of the poster's sample question, the one about the brothers third wedding, is one I would not want to answer with a simple yes/no.
Agreed. There are some questions with answers, neither of which I want to support by selecting.
Might also report skip rate to question asker.
Yes, skip would be good, but I'd also advocate an option like "I reject the premise of the question".
In legal contexts yes-or-no answers can work because the case can in theory be boiled down to guilty or not. If there is any flaw with the case, the answer should be not guilty.
But let's take the "do I have a moral duty to..." questions used as examples here for contrast. I'd argue you never had a moral duty to attend your sibling's wedding to begin with. But because the question was asked with a weird modifier like "even if it's their 3rd wedding", any answer you give will be inadequate and will just serve to reinforce the flawed premise. Skipping is not enough in my opinion, because even if communicated to the question asker, it doesn't make it clear whether there as an issue on the answerer's side ("I don't know" / "don't feel qualified") or with the question itself.
I'm using Firefox on Android. For me, it showed a question and two answers, but all attempts to select an answer failed.
I'm using Chrome on macbook and had same experience
Same, chrome on Android as well
I don't know. All of this smells fishy. Clearly noone has worked 16 years on this. The whole description is odd. Made by a new HN account. The thing barely works. Sometimes you get stuck in the same question loop. Sometimes buttons are huge.
Is it possible that this is some form of clickjacking site?
The big problem is kinda the same as what happens in push polls -- in that they ask misleading or suggestive questions trying to boil the issue down to a good and bad answer.
The reality for many of these questions is pretty complex.
I'm not saying it's not worthwhile, but I'm saying forcing users to choose on some topics aren't black and white.
It's maybe worthwhile getting information on things like people who aren't knowledgeable, people who don't care or have no preference, or people who don't want to answer because the answers are skewed towards one side.
I think you’re correct in that lots of things aren’t black and white, but the reverse is also true. Lots of arguments end up being over-litigated when a black and white answer (even if imperfect) will suffice.
As with most things like this, you get out what you put in. Ask a biased question, and get a biased answer. At some point, the responsibility has to lie with the user that if they want something like this to be interesting and unbiased, they need to think about ways to use it to accomplish that.
Look, this is good entertainment, you should own up to that and enough with the noble purpose stuff:
> I built JuryNow because I wanted to create a truly objective place to get outside opinions that were not from my peer group, but from 12 people in 12 different countries, different ages, professions, cultures, a truly diverse global objective jury with no algorithms.
You don't collect demographics, and couldn't verify them anyway, so this game doesn't give insight into those dynamics. And the result is not more objective than a social media consensus.
That doesn't mean it isn't fun and even maybe useful in collecting one's thoughts, so go with that.
Yeah this sounds like making a webgame out of /r/AITA
Fun idea, grabbed my attention right away.
As a follow up, I'd guide people on asking questions. More context = better answers.
For example, I joined a jury. The question was "Should I go to Belarus?" That's so vague, it doesn't even feel helpful for me to answer. I would much rather the question have said something like "I've always wanted to go to Belarus, but my rent is also due in a week. I only have enough money for one. Where should I spend my money?"
That at least gives me something to work with and weigh in on.
Like with Reddit, an upvote system or moderation queue can (should?) be added to minimize spam. Questions like that are better asked a magic 8-ball.
I asked “ Toddlers should be allowed to be licensed to operate a motor vehicle.” with yes/no answers.
It errors out with “ Please moderate the content of your question before submitting it.”
Maybe because it relates to children? This is a website that accepts input from the public.
I rephrased the question as:
> Should driving licenses be available regardless of age?
> A: Yes, anyone who can pass the test can drive.
> B: No, only adults who pass a test should drive.
Option B won 10-2.
First congrats on launching, from personal experience that's the hard part.
Are there filters or monitoring for the more violent or maleficent types of things that people have a habit of gravitating towards? Depending on the number of people online and the balance, I could easily see groups jumping on and choosing the negative or harmful choice for lolz
Hello there! Thanks so much for trying it! Indeed, there is a filter to weed out any hate speech, self harm content, there is also a feature for jurors to report comments, and there is the User Agreement! But indeed, this was a big worry for me and put me off trying for a long time!
Congrats on the launch! Very nice idea! Looking forward when more people are playing so I get answers from real people. While I was waiting, I had to answer the same question multiple times. Is this by design?
It appears to have either been hugged to death or something broke on the backend - jury duty now just returns the same question about whether or not it is ethical for a startup to sell an ai as a physiologist.
Nice idea! I think it would be useful if the jury members could provide context on their decision as well as see the other jurors’ responses.
Congratulations on the launch.
I had two huge yes/no boxes that I thought where missing an image. So I reloaded and lost my question.
I love the concept. One tiny recommendation: on my phone the page both for voting and to see the voting result requires me to scroll. When content wise it could very easily fit within a single screen what is being displayed.
That is mostly a problem with the results page where i wanted to make a screenshot to show it off to my friends but couldn’t.
Also, i see repeated questions? As in i see one question. I vote, the “bar” moves forward, but i see the same question, so i vote again and the same happens.
So whoever was picking up skateboarding again in their 30s, but just suffered a hip injury after a fall. I voted that it is time for you to give up like four times. (Which i stand by as an opinion, but perhaps I shouldn’t be so overrepresented in your jury?)
so sorry about that! there was a bug 3 months ago (when i was just testing it with family and friends) when that happened, and one random question would repeat! And it's just come back tongiht!! (just as I post on hacker news!) i think it's fixed now! And thank you again!
THank you for this! That's really useful to hear. As you can see it's a very basic MVP for the moment, but I hope that when there are many more regular users and we can expand it, that the mobile app will be better and more user friendly! But thank you for playing!
Always (3/3 times, anyway) hangs when it's time to return results. Sometimes hangs during jury questions.
Seems like a fun idea, if it worked at all?
The first question I received had two options that were essentially the same decision worded differently.
I would definitely like a skip question button for jury duty. I also think it’s allowing me to vote multiple times on a single question, potentially when the queue is empty.
Cool idea and execution! The use of AI unless there are sufficient humans is a clever way to beat the chicken and egg problem
It just gets stuck on the same question with badly formatted boxes and does nothing if I click either of them.
Same here.
And when asking a question, it just keeps telling me to "moderate the question".
My question isn't profane or controversial, so I don't understand what I'm being asked to do.
Same here, I got out of that conundrum by
It seems there is an overly active nanny filter somewhere in the chain.Always (3/3 times, anyway) hangs when it's time to return results. Sometimes (1/4 runs) hangs during jury questions. Brave on Android.
Seems like a fun idea, if it worked.
I love it. Could definitely see more features where you can see the results of the jury questions.
^ this. It gets boring pretty fast being a juror, but it would be a lot more compelling if you could see the verdict.
It would be nice to be able to see the final results of questions I voted on
Do your jury duty, stop demanding a "skip" button. Think for half a second about what the consequences of that would be.
The premise of this app is undermined by the oversimplified implementation.
Truly diverse panel? You have no idea what the diversity is. Far removed from your peer group? You have no idea. "Just a verdict"? Jury duty is not a duty to pronounce judgement. It's a duty deliberate on evidence. There's no evidence, here, and no deliberation.
This is no celebration of collective human intelligence. This is silly and cynical.
Neat concept! Although I was a bit surprised at the AI stand-in's finding. I posed the silly argument that "My neighbor's dog refuses to speak French" with the options "Neighbor is culpable" and "I am clearly an idiot": The final decision was 7/5 in my favor! But seriously, this really is a great idea IMO. The jury-duty-while-you-wait feature also seems like a fair trade-off.
Thanks SO much for trying! Honestly, interacting with real people who have tried my game after thinking about it non stop for 16 years is truly exciting! Indeed, the AI part is necessary (well I don't want to say evil but...) in order to show off he game as it will be, and after posting it on Reddit last week, it was working like a dream with real live juries answering! My dream jury will be age 16 - 99, from every continent, every profession and culture...because I do believe the more diverse the jury, the better the verdict!
> I posed the silly argument that "My neighbor's dog refuses to speak French" with the options "Neighbor is culpable" and "I am clearly an idiot": The final decision was 7/5 in my favor!
People can be trolling. That is the kind of over the top, obviously silly question where I personally might also answer a silly answer. And out of those two the "Neighbor is culpable" is sillyier and funnier.
I mean, if your neighbor’s dog merely cannot speak French, that’s normal. But if it refuses to, that’s just rude.
I asked a question that was 4-0, then suddenly 8 votes came in at once that made the score 4-8, i wonder if that was a UI bug or if the 8 votes were the AI kicking in and they all disagreed with the human answer...
Brilliant idea. To make it more accurate:
- Don't force people to participate in jury duty when waiting for jury answer. Many of them will just click random answers.
- Provide "I don't know/Skip" as an answer. Otherwise the options are "Pick a random" and "Logout"
- Allow jury to write text feedback or at least give them a button saying "All provided answers are wrong / NA / Fallacy / ... "
- "your verdict is simulated by AI" if there aren't enough people logged in. Don't do that. I have no interested in that answer.
Yawn, I can't get past the filter. Boring. Please moderate the content of your question before submitting it Apparently "Furry" is enough to set it off.