Marshall Brain has died

(wral.com)

237 points | by bsagdiyev 5 hours ago ago

64 comments

  • slfnflctd an hour ago

    A gut punch for me. He was influential in many ways, as multiple comments here have already attested-- in particular the 'Manna' story that has been mentioned several times, which definitely knocked my socks off.

    Since no one else has brought it up yet, I want to say that one of his websites, "Why Won't God Heal Amputees" (https://whywontgodhealamputees.com/) was very important in my world. It may not exactly be the most highbrow philosophical or theological treatise you've ever encountered, but it crystallized several points I still consider hugely significant.

    For anyone raised by Christian fundamentalists of the type who continue to claim to believe in miracles being possible as a direct result of prayer, it is one of the most important things you may ever read. It lays bare the blatant falsehoods at the root of all such claims, forcing you to grapple with the fact that whatever higher power(s) may exist, they do not keep their supposed written promises in any way that we human beings would consider honest amongst each other.

    • cipheredStones a minute ago

      I wonder how long that site will be up, given his death. Hope someone mirrors it.

      It's interesting to read the Nicholas Kristof op-ed from 2006 that he links on some of the pages (https://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/03/opinion/03kristof.html) because it mentions the site (in its incarnation as "whydoesgodhateamputees.com") as "part of an increasingly assertive, often obnoxious atheist offensive", and argues that the New Atheists should basically back off and stop being so mean.

      While the New Atheists were definitely sharp-tongued (another page on the site assets that there's no such thing as an 'atheist', for the same reason that someone who doesn't believe in leprechauns wouldn't be called an 'aleprechaunist', and atheists should instead call themselves 'rational people'), I think they had some excellent points about how the religious point of view is treated as the default in public discourse - and one of the ways that manifests is that arguments for religion (and more nebulous spirituality) are seen as expected and ordinary, while arguments against religion are seen as inherently aggressive and mean-spirited.

    • nyc_data_geek 18 minutes ago

      No higher power ever wrote anything though. That's all human writing, human promises, human propaganda.

    • nashashmi 28 minutes ago

      Obviously someone who has come to atheism is not going to speak well of prayer. The guy ends each section with more questions than answers. And each of those questions comes from a highly confused state about what religion is, about what prayer is, about what God is. And maybe even what your purpose is.

      In the words of the Bible, “ the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil. For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed. ...” meaning his guide will only take him to further darkness and misguidance.

  • monocasa 4 hours ago

    I'm going to use this time to drop the Marshall Brain work that had the biggest impact on me, and is some of the most prescient speculative fiction I've read.

    Manna: Two Views of Humanity’s Future

    He contracts two societies. One is a dystopia where AI very, very similar to today's ML models is integrated into society as a replacement for the middle class, removing social mobility as well as acting as a panopticon lower management, and centralized social credit system.

    The other society uses the similar technology not as a social class moat, but as a tool to form a synthesis with all members of their culture and and unlock new levels of individual freedom.

    https://marshallbrain.com/manna1

    • simpaticoder 4 hours ago

      Very cool story, quite impactful on my thinking, although I will caution that the dystopia is better conceived than the utopia, mainly because the later requires inventing fantasy technology while the former does not. Indeed it's not clear at all what forces might destabalize the dystopia, since the power structures are immortal and self-replicating, and physics and biology (at least) prevents the utopia from existing. Maybe an asteroid or a caldera explosion? In fact I would love to read a sequel where the dystopia wins and AI-empowered oligarchs and human wage slaves create generation ships to nearby stars and eventually setup fast food restaurants in every corner of the galaxy.

      • marcosdumay 3 hours ago

        The only clear distinction between the utopia and the dystopia is on wealth distribution.

        All the rest of it is a narrative about consequences.

        Anyway, the AI there isn't like our LLMs either. It's an AGI capable of long term societal prediction.

        • robertlagrant 25 minutes ago

          > The only clear distinction between the utopia and the dystopia is on wealth distribution.

          A utopia where everyone is starving vs a dystopia where some people are fabulously wealthy but almost everyone has basic healthcare and education and opportunity to succeed? Inequality isn't anywhere near as important as the baseline of what most people have available to them.

      • nobodyandproud 42 minutes ago

        I'm going to disagree here, slightly. If anything I think Manna is something closer to AGI; and its capabilities certainly imply that it's Turing Complete.

        Which means the owners will constantly be playing whack-a-mole with edge cases and emergent properties that they couldn't anticipate from a prior fix.

        This is what would destabilize the dystopia; though that doesn't imply more freedom. It could just mean replacing one set of oligarchs with another; skynet; or just anarchy if Manna started becoming very buggy.

        On the otherhand, I don't think Vertebrane is Turing complete though I haven't given this a deep amount of thought; though I can't see how a bad actor couldn't coopt Vertebrane into a Manna.

      • chgs an hour ago

        Which utopia? I saw two dystopias. One the likely future of western society, another being one where your very thoughts are programmed

        • verisimi 43 minutes ago

          Do you think that this is not already the case? If not, what was the point of 15+ years of government education?

          • tomrod 20 minutes ago

            Red herring, I think. There are many goals for education outcomes, some noble and some base.

      • monocasa 3 hours ago

        Which physics and biology prevent the utopia from existing?

        • gus_massa 2 hours ago

          The hairless apes that are in charge have a very long and consistent history of power abuse.

          [spoiler alert]

          Everyone has a remote kill switch in their spinal cord. Once the goverment decides to be evil, any rebel will get their legs instructed to walk to a pea facility for "reeducation".

          Compared to this scenario, 1984 is almost as optimistic as Equilibrium.

          • monocasa an hour ago

            Which is why there wasn't really a set of hairless apes that were in charge. They had a fully direct democracy.

        • vineyardmike 2 hours ago

          They have some chips they insert into your spine to read your thoughts and other similar stuff.

          But personally the “dystopia” to me feels very much like something we could end up with -it’s much more a warning. Meanwhile the fantastic nature of the utopia doesn’t really matter in contrast, because the idea of sharing society’s abundance with everyone is clearly possible.

          • robertlagrant 24 minutes ago

            > the idea of sharing society’s abundance with everyone is clearly possible

            It is possible. If we stopped at the invention of fire we'd all have equality by now. The problem is that people keep inventing new stuff.

            • vineyardmike 5 minutes ago

              Why is innovation and sharing mutually exclusive?

          • darepublic 2 hours ago

            It's possible if we believe human nature to be sufficiently malleable. Why can't we all just get along. Perhaps the mountains that need to be moved for such a thing are as daunting as some of the physical laws we try to hurdle instead

            • vineyardmike an hour ago

              There are nations and societies very different from the United States. In the United States, we can see the distrust in our neighbors play out politically, contrasted with other societies trust. You can even see it play out across various states and regions. Perhaps they’re not mountains imposed by human nature, but our perception of society.

              Other nations have socialized healthcare, where anyone can be treated. Other nations have calm safe and clean public transit. Other nation’s redistribute wealth and provide strong safety nets. Other nations don’t have mass violence. Other nations guarantee retirement and pensions. Other nations trust their governments.

              The fantasy physics aren’t what’s holding people back.

        • bhhaskin 3 hours ago

          Well for starters having the technology for prefect recycling.

          • monocasa 2 hours ago

            I interpreted it had perfect enough for their goals rather than breaking any thermodynamic laws or something.

      • nazgulnarsil 3 hours ago

        Accelerando

    • vineyardmike 2 hours ago

      I found it to be an extremely interesting and useful tool to understand and imagine the impact of wealth distribution and automation in society. Personally, I believe in strong redistribution in society, because (at least in America) we largely live in a world of abundance, and automation should make everyone’s lives easier and more leisurely.

      But I would like to point out that the “utopia” has a few serious panopticon elements which are very 1984. It seems as though high-welfare and high redistribution societies are predicated on high trust of your peers, and this takes that to the extreme…

      > Another core principle is that nothing is anonymous. Eric grew up during the rise of the Internet, and the rise of global terrorism, and one thing he realized is that anonymity allows incredible abuse. It does not matter if you are sending anonymous, untraceable emails that destroy someone’s career, or if you are anonymously releasing computer viruses, or if you are anonymously blowing up buildings. Anonymity breeds abuse. In [utopia], if you walk from your home to a park, your path is logged. You cannot anonymously pass by someone else’s home. If someone looks up your path that day to see who walked by, that fact is also logged. So you know who knows your path. And so on. This system, of course, makes it completely impossible to commit an anonymous crime. So there is no anonymous crime. Anyone who commits a crime is immediately detained and disciplined.”

    • A4ET8a8uTh0 2 hours ago

      Manna was fairly eye-opening ( and you can see some parallels to today's LLMs to me. I will admit that I read it without knowing much about the author way back when and being fairly amazed at well he knew human nature and likely course that invention would take.

  • yrral 3 hours ago

    Wow, when I was a kid back in the early 2000s, howstuffworks was my favorite website. I bet I read every article on how various things work (there were many hundreds).

    I found that the knowledge from that website helped me understand how everything in the world worked and satisfied my curious mind. I attribute my knack for understanding new things and fixing things to this website.

    Back then, the site was clean and had very good clean and expertly written explanations of how various mechanical, everyday and scientific equipment worked. Nowadays that website is not the same, seems riddled with SEO spam and fluff articles like a content mill.

    Rest in Peace Marshall Brain, thank you for all your contributions to my (and likely others) life

    • slaucon 2 hours ago

      I had the same experience, as I’m sure many others did. It’s easy to forget now how much rarer it was to find high quality and engaging educational content on the internet back then. Howstuffworks got me interested in so many different things, and exploring the articles was a lovely way to spend the time as a kid.

    • arcanemachiner 2 hours ago

      Loved that website. Its intro to C programming was how I got into programming.

  • FlynnCruse 4 hours ago

    Marshall was one of my closest Mentors through college. Truly heartbreaking to hear of his passing. I wish his family; wife and kids, the best through this tragic period.

    He inspired me daily with his dedication to his students, incredible work-ethic and love for entrepreneurial engineering. My life is forever changed for having met and been mentored by Marshall, I cannot express enough gratitude for the time I got to spend with him.

    Rest in Peace Marshall Brain, a real-life legend.

    • panoply220 3 hours ago

      Same! I owe so much to him. Heartbreaking and forever grateful for the time we got to spend together.

  • goodmunky 3 hours ago

    He was 63 and wrote this a few years ago, “You’ve Had Your Turn –The Case for Euthanizing Everyone at Age 65” https://marshallbrain.com/youve-had-your-turn-the-case-for-e...

  • StephenSmith 3 hours ago

    I just wanted to highlight that he was also an entrepreneurship professor at NC State and shaped many students' views of what they could do with their lives.

    I was one of those students. I now own my own company as a result of his teachings. He was very influential and a wonderful human being. This news is tragic.

    RIP Marshall. You were loved.

    • AlphaWeaver 2 hours ago

      Marshall Brain's contributions to the entrepreneurship program more broadly were extremely significant. I never had him as a professor, but his influence on the program was clear, even to me.

      He will be dearly missed.

  • lwhalen 5 hours ago

    He was also the author of https://marshallbrain.com/manna, a sci-fi story that has stuck with me for years.

    • ryoshu 4 hours ago

      Very relevant in the age of smart glasses for workers.

      • chgs 3 hours ago

        I was think about the software some companies use to “monitor productivity”

  • gothink 4 hours ago

    Wow, this is very tragic. I was actually just reflecting on the influence Howstuffworks.com had on my life and interests. Quick story:

    My first introduction to programming was building a Geocities website in HTML (using notepad, of course) at a science camp in 1999. They also showed us the "How HTML Works" web page as a resource, which became my first technical resource. I remembering struggling with something on my website and eventually emailing my question to Howstuffworks, not expecting much back. Not only did a very patient and informative woman respond to me, she continued to answer my questions and offer helpful guidance to this very eager kid for the rest of the summer. Without that positive experience, who knows if I would have stuck with it. It's been on mind a lot since I just realized that was 25 years ago.

    I hope Marshall knew how much people valued the things he created and the impact they had.

    • schiffern 4 hours ago

      Marshall Brain also wrote many programming books in the 90s era.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall_Brain#Publications

    • ilayn 2 hours ago

      Same experience for me. I was able to buy my first drumset from the money I got for making a PHP+MySQL+HTML website for someone (also done all in notepad). I did not know anything about computers but I needed to buy a drumset. And that page actually got me going about how HTML works.

      I still remember their animations about car differential which were magical.

    • bn-l 3 hours ago

      This makes me nostalgic for the small internet.

  • BobbyTables2 2 hours ago

    Can’t help but feel he got screwed when the HowStuffWorks website was sold for 250x what he got just a few years earlier.

    Aside from his futuristic works, his Win32 API book was extremely good and my first introduction to Windows programming.

    It’s our loss to loose such a talented human being.

  • BadHumans 4 hours ago

    Given the amount of dystopian content he was posting on his website and subreddit lately, he seemed to be despairing quite a bit regarding the direction of society.

    • schiffern 4 hours ago

      I noticed that. He made several subreddits, here's a (likely incomplete) list. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42224139

      His commentary near the end of this interview is also telling. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BA5v2cfJp1o

      An optimist in (increasingly) a cynic's world. Be at peace, Marshall Brain.

      • dredmorbius 20 minutes ago

        Do you have an approximate time point for that comment?

        Brain makes a comment beginning at about the 30 minute point, I'm listening to that now, though it doesn't seem to match your description.

        The bit a couple of minutes later (32m) beginning "I have four children now in college..." seems closer.

        I have to comment that the song about how bright the future was (by Timbuk3) was absolutely satiric and ironic, though that point is often missed. As is often the case, in music and otherwise (Beastie Boys "Fight for your Right", Bruce Springstein "Born in the USA", Neal Stephenson Snow Crash & the Metaverse, etc., etc.).

  • zackangelo 35 minutes ago

    So grateful that HSW existed when I was younger. As a teenager, I couldn't afford to get the timing belt and water pump replaced on my car so I had to figure out how to do it myself. I bought the service manual from AutoZone but I needed something to closer to an introduction to even be begin to understand it. He seemed to love explaining how car engines work and that series of articles was exactly what I needed at that time to get started.

    RIP Marshall, I hope you knew what an inspiration you were.

  • panoply220 3 hours ago

    I shared this on the other HN thread, but I spent some time revisiting the HowStuffWorks c 2001, and highly recommend as a catharsis and reminder of the web as it once was:

    https://web.archive.org/web/20010202064900/http://howstuffwo...

  • raphman 4 hours ago

    Duplicate (different submitted link, however): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42222387

  • ziofill 40 minutes ago

    Very sorry to hear that Marshall died :( I just went on howstuffworks.com and I see two articles on astrology on the home page. For real? I thought it was a science-based website.

  • nisten 4 hours ago

    Spent hours in highschool printing stuff out of howstuffworks.com because dialup at home was too slow until we got dsl :(

    May he rest in peace.

  • pinkmuffinere 2 hours ago

    If it weren’t for howstuffworks, I suspect I wouldn’t be an engineer. I’m sure I’m not the only one. Rip Marshall.

  • bckr 4 hours ago

    Oh, this is very sad. I was really inspired by his essays and stories when I was 17.

    I wonder what was happening with him.

    • Mistletoe 4 hours ago

      > Marshall Brain died inside his office Wednesday on N.C. State’s centennial campus.

      >While the university would not confirm any details related to his death, sources close to Brain said he died by suicide.

      :(

      Marshall was a frequent poster in subreddits such as /r/collapse.

      https://www.reddit.com/user/MarshallBrain/

      I don’t think it’s hard to see what things concerned him. I think it’s important for all of us to realize that no matter how we think the world is going there is still brightness in the world and Marshall contributed to that brightness through his contributions to society.

      • bckr 3 hours ago

        I wondered. How dark.

  • Horffupolde 3 hours ago

    What happens with domains, content, etc now? Is there a systematic way of preparing and securing online services for death?

    • xyst 2 hours ago

      archive.org|.ph

  • TZubiri 2 hours ago

    Hey that's how I learned C

    RIP

  • willio58 4 hours ago

    Very sad, just a reminder that success doesn’t translate to happiness.

    The podcasts that came out of HSW.com have heavily influenced my life. Especially Stuff You Should Know (still a top 20 podcast but no longer owned by How stuff works.

    I remember 16 years ago going through the whole rigmarole of downloading the podcast on my white MacBook, syncing to my iPod, repeating each week so I could keep up with the episodes of SYSK coming out. Fast-forward to today I still listen to each episode religiously and have learned so much from Josh and Chuck.

    • readthenotes1 3 hours ago

      "success doesn’t translate to happiness."

      I suspect that the pursuit of happiness, without the capture, leads to success. Or perhaps a strong avoidance of the fear of failure (iirc, that was a common motivation for Olympic athletes)

  • dyauspitr 2 hours ago

    This is so sad, I loved this man. I wonder if the current dystopian road the US is going down had anything to do with it. Rest in peace, Marshall.

  • joemazerino 3 hours ago

    Sad to hear a brilliant man decided to take his own life. He seemed increasingly dark on his later takes, and it's a testament to the evils of unrestrained high-IQ and no guard rails.

    • las_balas_tres 2 hours ago

      What guard rails could anyone with an unrestrained high IQ possibly have?

  • blackeyeblitzar 5 hours ago

    Sad to hear. This is an amazing resource that many curious people have grown up with. It alleges here that he committed suicide. It makes me extra sad that someone who gifted others with so much found themselves in that place.

    Dang - deserves a black bar?

  • yarg 4 hours ago

    As someone who has pulled himself back from suicidality, I absolutely abhor the expression "died by suicide".

    If I had gone through with it, I would have killed myself - and any euphemisms being thrown around would serve no-one at all (especially not those still living in that hole).

    I would much rather have it framed as me having done something unforgivably stupid and completely preventable - but as a society we'd much rather reject that reality and instead refuse to acknowledge that more often than not the signs were all there; that not only was the death an irreversible act of idiocy, but it was also something that we could've and should've stopped yet did nothing to prevent.

    • rachofsunshine 2 hours ago

      I've had similar experiences, and I have exactly the opposite beliefs.

      Depression isn't a failing on the person's part, and it isn't stupidity. Nor is suicide resulting from depression. It's a disease, and you "die from suicide" the same way you "die from cancer" - from the effects of your disease disrupting vital functions of your existence until you can no longer survive.

      For me, at least, understanding and healing from severe mental illness required understanding that the illness wasn't "me". It was this crappy thing I had to live with because some part of my brain Just Does That Sometimes. See [1] among other posts, but the only way I've ever found to beat my own tendencies towards mental illness - and they are extremely strong - is to treat them like a chronic disease. The same way that a person with liver disease has to avoid drinking, I have to avoid the things that trigger my own chronic depression.

      [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41113032