> Shelves overflowing with cars and blocks and action figures can be just as stressful for kids as they are for parents. Sometimes “kids don’t play with anything, because there’s just too many options,” said Sarah Davis
I find it quite interesting that "choice fatigue" is found just about everywhere, from what show to watch on Netflix to what toy your kid picks up. Semi related anecdote but I recently picked up a Steam Deck with the intention of emulating PS2 games. One thing I was very intentional about is to not load it up right away with every game imaginable but rather, go one game at a time, much like I used to when I still had to buy these games at the store.
I use the Deck quite often and attribute much of that to the fact that I limited my game options, as if I loaded up every game I could possibly play then I would just drown in choices.
Steamdeck is awesome. Just don’t sign up for the wishlist sale emails . I had to turn off notifications because I was buying way more games than I could play.
> One thing I was very intentional about is to not load [the Steam Deck] up right away with every game imaginable but rather, go one game at a time
I attribute my continued, regular enjoyment of my Playdate console to Panic's intentional choice to throttle the Season One games to once per week. Now I purchase a new game or two every month from their catalogue. I think if I got it already fully loaded I wouldn't have enjoyed it as much, which is really counter-intuitive to me and was an opportunity for introspection.
Sounds like mindfulness - set your intention before you use something and keep checking in to make sure you're not getting distracted (by something other than the game!)
Yep. Currently going through choice fatigue in trying to decide what program to use for designing things that will be 3D printed. There's also a seemingly endless number of guides to help you choose, each with its own set of reasons, which only expands the choice landscape even further.
I have a 9 month old and we are drowning in toys. We have bought very few of them. The article is clearly not written by a parent because it barely touches on Buy Nothing Groups on Facebook.
We've barely bought any clothes either. They all come from Buy Nothing groups. Kids grow out of toys and clothes every 3 months. Parents are desperate to offload this stuff.
And my wife has become a hoarder as have other parents in the neighbourhood. Buy Nothing groups seem to set off some sort of hoarding affliction in parents.
My local group is not "buy nothing" but rather "zero waste" but yeah the amount of quasi-trash that my wife keeps bringing home ("this is broken but I'll fix it!") is crazy.
A few weeks ago she managed to offload a pink salt lamp to a lady, mentioned "this is not working but should be easy to fix" and the lady replied she's just gonna feed it to some goats and it was glorious.
> The article is clearly not written by a parent because it barely touches on Buy Nothing Groups on Facebook.
The author very clearly indicates they have children. I don't think the author wants to make it an article about themselves.
Keep in mind: Toys just show up from well-meaning people. There's a lot of social momentum around gifting; I started dreading Christmas because it means a bunch of toys my kids won't play with.
And, not only am I drowning in toys, I'm drowning in books too.
pretty much the only toys i get for my kids to get are lego compatible bricks. with those it doesn't make a difference if you have 1 or 10 kg of them. just add to the pile.
no books in my house because we are moving to often. but i grew up in a library. my dad probably has 10-15m worth of bookshelves. from my granddad we inherited 3 or 4 times as much. but they were both collectors, curating their collections with care. still, sorting through those books to figure out whats valuable is a lifetime occupation. and i can see how a lot of books can be overwhelming if you are not into that.
a year ago i heard about someone passing away leaving behind a house with a collection of 75000 books. the cost to sort through them would be higher than the value of the collection, so instead it all goes to a landfill because i a not even sure it can be recycled or the cost of getting it recycled was to much too.
There are a few types of toys that my wife and I are still ok with getting and Lego is one of them. She's started using the phrase "more really is more" to describe the category. Basically, it's systems where you build something and the more you have, the more things you can do: Lego, Brio, Magna-Tiles, Hot Wheels track, etc. Even things like Pokemon cards (if your kid actually plays the game) can fall into this. You do have to be careful not to end up with too many of these systems, especially really similar ones.
We're also still ok with getting books. We have a few too many for our shelf space, but at their current ages, our kids are aging out of books about as quickly as they receive new ones. I just need to do a better job of giving away the old ones more regularly.
Yes! I've run out of ways to tell MY parents not to get toys for my kids for Christmas/birthdays. I can ask directly for no physical things; I can suggest tickets to shows or evens, memberships to museums or zoos, etc; I can point out every time they come over that there's not enough space for the things we already have; I can tell them what sorts of clothes the kids could use instead. They're still going to get each kid a "showstopper" (toy workbench, Big Wheel, something physically large) plus several cheap plastic trinkets... plus the clothes.
And that's just my parents. I can politely talk to them about not getting physical things for my kids, but then there's all of the extended family that loves to get them big, cheap plastic stuff, too. I know they're trying to be generous and don't really understand the fallout, but I'm starting to reconsider the whole "it's the thought that counts" idea.
I need to do a better job of helping the kids periodically go through and give stuff away, but 1) try explaining to a 3-year-old why giving away your toys is a good thing, and 2) the influx of new things always seems to outstrip the rate at which I can find time to get rid of stuff.
Probably has something to do with the price of zero. The concept keeps showing up in random feeds for me, and it’s something both marketers and behavioral economists like to talk about. It seems free short circuits a lot of our normal cognitive pathways.
That said, I learned an interesting trick years ago. If you’re trying to get rid of junk, leaving it on the side of the road with a free sign is not as effective as using a sign with a slightly more than nominal amount. $25 used to be the sweet spot, $50 might be better today. Probably depends on the thing. Make it look like they’re getting a deal. Items tend to disappear after that, though I did once have someone knock and pay.
We moved a few months ago, and even now about 90% of their toys are still packed up in boxes. No exaggeration. We didn't make a thing of it, we just quietly decided not to unpack anything by default - neither kids' stuff nor parents' stuff - and instead only unpack specific things when someone specifically wants them. Because how often do you get such a good chance to find out which of your possessions you actually care about?
So far what we've seen is:
1. Less sibling conflict.
2. Less complaining about being bored.
3. More creative play.
4. Zero complaining about not enough toys.
That sounds like a terrible idea... but now I understand where the insanity of our last wiki migration came from. The rule was to not automatically migrate anything that wasn't modified in the last year. Everything else needed to be migrated manually, by hand. It was sold as a great opportunity to "clean up."
We lost a lot of important design and reference documentation. My systems were fine, but if the last lead had been in charge during the transition, we'd have been fucked.
I think kids get overwhelmed by too many toys the same way we get overwhelmed when we have too many things laying around. Every time we get a new toy for my kid we ask him to give up one of the older toys they're not playing with. It worked out pretty well so far.
It looks like the parents in the article are not teaching their children that each kind of toy should be put away before the next toy gets brought out to play with. Teaching children that mixing all one's toys up creates an unusable chaos is a good lesson for how to (not) organize one's work environment, room's clothing, kitchen area, etc. Installing a sense of order is IMO a valuable lesson for young people.
As a family with a lot of Lego (both daughter's Friends stuff and son's Technics and Ninjago), they have put in signifcant work to keep it sorted so that it remains usable.
I understand that most parents are not so diligent (time constraints for working parents are brutal), but our primary advantage is that the kids have never had their own tvs or internet-connected devices (except for son's chess computer which is in our living room). Not having on-demand media has left them needing to choose their own activities, which includes asking to watch something specific within our shared media computer.
What is nice about this is that we almost never have to ask either of them to clean/organize their areas, because they have learned the Marie Kondo-style kind of joy in keeping your area organized. And, yes, our daughter read and loved that book.
[Side note: not having on-demand media also helps develop their joy of reading, though it was more difficult for our son than daughter.]
But can we maybe for once ease off on the blatantly moralizing at parents?
In my circle of friends and family, every single parent wants to uphold this standard. The only ones who have actually succeeded in consistently maintaining it also have a very authoritarian parenting style. Everyone else has settled on compromising to various degrees.
Morality is what keeps one race of people from enslaving other folks; keeps someone from robbing or killing another, and many other negative attitudes and behaviors. We human beings are the only moral creatures around here, being able to learn from our mistakes, evaluate the results of our actions, and change how we go about things. This world absolutely needs more moralizing, not less, but not self-righteous I'm-better-than-you kinds of pompous bullsh_t, but just results-based, impartial discussion of what the best outcomes are and what the best methods are to achieving them.
Regarding parenting, one has to find the middle way, being neither abusive nor too slack.
The important thing to understand is that children are intrinsically selfish, and that we have to teach them empathy and kindness, and -- most importantly -- that they have selfish impulses they must resist, in order for the society as a whole to function its best.
No, most people do not have the level of understanding about human nature to properly educate their children. Not having learned how to live, parents are now doing their best, but have failed to question the inertia of our world techno culture, that is overlaid on their native age-old culture. And now we see how negatively social media via smart phones has affected our children (and parents, too, seems to me).
It is the blind leading the blind, but anyone with material wealth is so very cocksure that they know best. "Might makes right" and "wealth means intelligence" are the maxims of the day, yet both are leading us to less and less desirable outcomes.
As Jamiroquai's Jay Kay said in Virtual Insanity, "I think it's time to find a new religion." That new religion requires skepticism about our societal/cultural inertias, and being open to new ideas about community and the role of compassion in all our doings, our doings' effects, and the intentions behind those doings.
I have known plenty of parents who, as you suggest, do not try. We ourselves have tried various tactics, but sometimes the children just absolutely refuse. And the thing about cleaning up is that the person with the highest tolerance for messiness usually "wins" (and this doesn't only apply to children). :-)
And yeah, there may be room for creative incentive structures / choice architecture. The effectiveness of these things is a function of the parents, the children, and the conditions, and sometimes there are just more important things to attend to so we let this one go.
My kids (my son espcially) understood from a young age that their toys can disappear at any time, should my wife and my very minimal suggestions be ignored. It never needed to happen, but they fully understood that I keep my promises and that their choices could have that effect. No violence, no intimidation, just a negative outcome they will feel and dislike.
Once a child understands that their favorite toy can simply disappear forever, they have learned how to form their own incentive structure, with our gentle help, of course. Along the way, though, we made sure they understood that we love them and work hard to make them happy, but that we also have a far greater depth of understanding about how things need to done. That means, for example, that one always knocks on the bathroom door :-)
This world is a tricky place. I suggest that the only way to best orient one's moral compass -- and entire life, thereby -- is through compassion. All relationships, including parent-child, spouse-spouse, and employer-employee always benefit from being as compassionate as possible. Even when dealing with a violent sociopath, having compassion ensures that one is not acting out of bigotry, self-superiority, pleasure of oppression, vindictiveness, or any other negative motivation; compassion helps us take the whole into consideration, and not just our own selfish benefit.
There is no more important place for this perspective than in parenting, where our children's lives are literally at our mercy. Learning how to develop wisdom via compassion is where the art comes in, but all art begins and ends with hard graft, with mistakes and learning and getting better through brutally honest self-reflection.
Reminds me of going through my old toy chest with my parents. Most of what I found I just tossed - my mom wanted to offload to goodwill but I was sure few of them were worth it.
The items I wanted to keep were mostly either silly figures of animals I like (old-school dinosaurs, etc), or creative stuff like Bionicles. In fact, I took home the Bionicles and spent a few weekends actually playing with them, creating new figures. I'm certainly not neurotypical, but I feel that a decent barometer for toys that will truly engage a child is "Could a creative adult also enjoy this?"
I have some young children in my life and agree the landscape of toys-and-their-ads is insane these days. Especially with the crisp unboxing videos, it's so hard not to want to get the weird (and, truthfully, often quite creative, on the designer's part) stuff that's coming out. I sympathize with parents; it's never going to be easy to say no even once you've identified that a badly desired toy is actually going to be a waste of money 6 hours after purchase.
That's a very good metric. I've had friends ask me when I come up with an activity or toy, "how did you think of x?" The answer is "it sounded fun to me if I was a kid."
Many of your odd toys don't even meet modern safety standards and so should be either tossed or put in a collectors display cabinet where kids won't touch them. Sure we survived, but that doesn't make them toys safe.
I was old enough to see them, but my dad looked at them and said that can't possibly be safe and so refused to let us have them. It was almost a decade latter (or so I remember) before they were recalled.
Yeah, I wonder how horrible the plasticizers were in the Playtex baby bottle nipple-tops of the 1970s. First they heated up the Similac in a little plastic pouch/bag, then slapped that nipple on top, then we sucked it all in.
The biggest takeaway for me is that toys are 4x cheaper to make than they were 20 years ago, adjusted for inflation. So it's just easier to buy more of them.
As another poster mentions, this article fails to dig into the Buy Nothing communities, or even Facebook Marketplace. We actively try to get rid of the kids stuff as they outgrow them, and these are the two places we first hit up.
Toys I remember from the 1980s had already outsourced production to Taiwan. I assume that things soon moved to China, but it is astonishing to think that Chinese labor could have made already cheap Asian production so much cheaper. So, I assume that the drop in production costs is driven by some kind of industrial process improvements?
Not to mention the really cheap plastic stuff given away in gift bags when it is someone's birthday. Small non-functional yo-yo's balls with paddle. etc. Since you can't give food or candy for fear of nuts.
For things like LEGO they are mostly specific sets, so they get built and displayed like models by my kids. Rarely to they build random stuff like I did when I was little, with only a small amount of LEGO.
When did gift bags at parties become a thing? When I was a kid the social contract was "I host the party you give me a present, and next time you get one".
When my kids come home with gift bags I feel like screaming.
I think the trend of gift bags comes from a good place. Parents saw that when the birthday kid gets everything, it's easy for that to become a lesson in selfishness and Main Character Syndrome. Having the birthday kid also give gifts to the guests helps make it feel like a shared experience where everyone is important.
My advice for young parents is to make birthdays and holidays gifts of an experience. Encourage loved ones to not buy any toys and contribute to a party, train ride, bouncy castle, petting zoo... whatever it is. If you want to do any gifts at all, make the tradition 1 or 2 special gifts that the parents pick out. Of all the loot a kid acquires on their
Your kids will have better, more memorable birthdays and you'll have SOOOO much less junk and clutter in the house.
My own experience, but I've been very happy with the level of toys I have. It feels manageable and I can pick up all toys within 5 minutes (depending on how scattered they got). However, whenever kids come over to my house (particularly slightly older children- 6+), their first comment almost without fail is "where are all the toys?"
I feel like our choice has been fairly intentional.
It's interesting that the article keeps referring to stuff kids see in tv or YouTube. But my kids don't watch TV with ads and don't watch YouTube unboxing videos, and my house is still too full of toys.
I have to keep reminding my friends and relatives to not get them more stuff. Toys are just too easy too available.
You’ve gotta get ahead of the problem when they’re little, get rid of toys early and often. Kid doesn’t play with it, away it goes. If the grandparents don’t like it they can keep them at their house.
Exceptions made for the kids or parents favorites that aren’t broken: Barbie, Hot Wheels, Lego, etc.
If there's a social expectation of coming with a present to your nephew or cousin or mother or whoever's birthday, or at Christmas, or whatever, and you know no-one wants to have a discussion about different ways to do things... what do you do, other than buy some silly thing that ticks the required social box? Genuine question.
I've tried a few little things myself, but with very little success. There just is an established set of patterns where you have to buy certain things, or else there'll be mumbling behind your back, and there doesn't seem to be a way around it in the short term (other than accepting the mumbling).
Toys are cheap, many last a long time, and they're handed down / given away regularly. Even when we bought toys we got them at a second hand store and they were crazy cheap.
By the time I had a second child we didn't "need" anymore toys, but we still got them for birthdays, holidays and so on.
I'm a parent of two young kids and don't really sympathize with this.
Its self-inflicted and part of a larger culture of Having More Stuff. Having lived most of my life in South America and later migrated to North America, I feel I can see that more clearly than people who grew up here.
People always go over the top with anything material. Have a single child? You need a minivan. Family of four? You need a 3-level, 2000-sqft house (with the garage where you will never park your minivan, because it is full to the ceiling with clutter you never use). Toys are just another facet of this culture.
As someone from the outside who has been around, I can say the rest of world is not like this. Its not particularly hard to avoid. Just buy less stuff, and donate/dispose of things you don't want or need.
Seems like hyperbole. If anything, the empirical evidence suggests the opposite. You can only fit 2 child seats in a "normal" car, so if you want 3 kids (requiring 3 child seats), you need a minivan. However, minivans are apparently so undesirable that there's a mild contraceptive effect on births, because parents keep their kid count to under 3 to avoid getting a minivan.
> As someone from the outside who has been around, I can say the rest of world is not like this.
I agree with your general point that this is part of a broader cultural phenomenon, but I think your "rest of world" point is over extrapolating from your specific life experience in a small number of countries. I grew up in a European country and the culture around toys/stuff/etc is basically the same as the US.
I considered adding "the rest of the world (or what I know of it)", but that is kind of implied, as no single person can plausibly have knowledge of life in every single place in the world.
I lived in a few different places in Europe, and while the underlying desires that power materialism might be the same as in the US/Canada, I would very strongly argue that the practical manifestation of those desires is still at least an order of magnitude lower. Or in other words: middle-class Americans have much easier and cheaper access to industrialized goods, not to mention large housing, than most of their EU counterparts.
My family has passed down through the generations an old farmhouse in the mountains where we go on vacation. When my father was growing up, they would pack the family of five and their bags into a Volkswagen Beetle and head up for a weekend. When I was growing up, we were also a family of five and we filled a minivan to the brim for a weekend.
This is very true, it’s super stressful for kids especially when they have a messy room depending on their personality type they can be completely paralyzed by the amount of toys. Having higher quality or even just toys curated to the core desires of the child can help reduce wasteful purchases. I can’t count how many “awesome” toys I’ve donated to goodwill because my kids realized they didn’t want them after a few days, or weeks.
I own an Analogue Pocket, which is an FPGA system for the gameboy color (and more). I have found that by forcing myself to just play the inserted cartridge instead of games loaded on the the memory card, I have a high attention span for the game and can play for longer periods.
It is a sad and colossal waste. From experience, when the kids are grown you have to decide what to do with the toys that are often half broken or with missing parts you have no idea where they ended up. As the article states, these toys come into your house whether you want them or not. You agonize about how to get rid of them in a responsible way (much more time consuming than acquiring the toy to begin with), only to find out that the landfill is pretty much the only option.
So many barbies and barbie-like dolls have shown up, that they are often laying in a pile at the bottom of the doll castle.
I dread opening the doll castle because the sight of the dolls laying, stacked on the castle's floor, just brings back images I've seen of ethnic cleansing.
Having young relatives, I've noticed this issue. I attribute it to several factors:
1. Declining birth rates. There are more adults in a given child's life;
2. Delayed child birth. Not only are there less children per year because of this, but it also means the parents and relatives are older and tend to be more affluent;
3. Larger houses. Possessions are like a gas. They will expand to fill available space. This affects every possession type, not just toys. Where once a family of 5 might be in a 3x1 1100sq ft house, now it's a family of 3 in a 3000sq ft house;
4. Toys are generally cheaper (the article mentions this) and easier to get thanks to Amazon;
5. Increased information. You're now aware of many things you previously weren't before the Internet. So an aunt or uncle could bring a toy you've never heard of. Now? You've seen Tiktoks about everything the second it's available. So with increased means and knowledge of pretty much everything, there are fewer unfulfilled needs.
6. Guilt. People generally have to work longer hours, more jobs and harder than they did 30+ years ago. As necessary as that is, you will find people "compensating" for the lack of time with material things;
7. Children spend less time playing with each other because now everything is a "play date". We've come a long way from the TV ads of "do you know where your children are?" that would play at 10pm. Now you get arrested if your children walk to the store by themselves [1]. As much as people bemaon video games, computers and devices, it's often the only social outlet with peers children have.
8. A single device (eg console, phone, tablet) can replace the need for many toys so these things tend to collect rather than breaking and getting thrown out.
1. "Declining" is true, but "barely" is a needed prequalifier[1]
2. There are more children per year [2]. In fact, there are more children alive now than there ever have been in U.S. history.
3,5,6 - Maybe.
4 - I think cheap toys is the most likely explanation. Toys today are SUPER cheap compared to the 1980s. And more capable. And more cool. I am so jealous of the toys kids have available today.
7. I take it you don't have children or live in a "weird" area. Where I am (western US), there are children everywhere playing together, often outside! Anecdotal, I know, but so is yours =D And sure, you can find the crazy "news" stories about parents getting warnings/arrested for letting their children walk a mile outside. The reason those stories make the news is that they're bizarre and rare. The more likely reason is a single power-hungry cop/social worker who just had to prove to everyone how powerful they are.
You nailed it with all of those, from my experience. Nearly all of the toys we have were gifts. Two sets of grandparent, with not enough grandchildren to go around, and more options than ever. Even birthday parties have us struggling to fill the car with all the new crap. Plushies, barbies, Bluey merch, Gabby merch. I think my and my parent's generations can't seem to help themselves. I think there's also some compensating for being able to give the kids things you would never have been able to get. I know I'm susceptible to it as well. I bought a rock tumbler kit for them the other day, because I always wanted one as a kid.
Too many overcompensating adults, too few kids to be the recipients of that compensation, too many toys out there to buy. This doesn't even touch on the scarcity/scalping of certain toys as well, which also breaks the brain in its own way. What do you mean, no one has Muffin from Bluey in stock and it's $80 on ebay? Now my brain is on a mission to find it and buy it at MSRP, when I really shouldn't care to begin with.
The article is not talking about the real cause: There is an ongoing extermination of young people through low birth rates. Any child today is inheriting toys from several childless uncles and aunts and friends of parents, or getting presents from them.
Do these statistics correspond with what you observe in everyday life? There is a reason why Lego has shifted focus from the child market to the adult market.
But I admit that declining birthrates is probably not the only reason. There are decades of mass produced toys that get inherited/reused, and as the article points out; mass produced goods are cheaper than ever, especially plastic stuff like toys.
Yes. All I can assume (by making an ass out of me) is that you live in a big city. Come to suburbia, there are children everywhere, all the time.
As for the lego thing. Yeah, just take a moment to think this through. Lego has become absurdly popular with adult nerds. Adult nerds have money. Children do not have money. If your company was previously marketing to children. But, suddenly had a large influx of interest from people with money. Who would you market to?
Are you implying "The Government" is lying? Because now we're entering crazy-land and I won't discuss that further.
Children never had money to buy their own toys (or diapers for that matter). These adult nerds would buy Lego for their kids - if they had kids. Lego has become absurdly popular with adult nerds because they've focused on that market. Lego needs to make money and they do that by selling stuff to guys who are 20+ years old, instead of waiting until they are 45 and have their first child.
Statistics can be misinterpreted. If you think that somebody who is skeptical of government statistics is crazy, well you should have seen the wonderful statistics in the Soviet Union.
The official government statistics for the fertility rate is below replacement level in the US, meaning that the ratio of adults per child is higher. If we believe government stats.
> Shelves overflowing with cars and blocks and action figures can be just as stressful for kids as they are for parents. Sometimes “kids don’t play with anything, because there’s just too many options,” said Sarah Davis
I find it quite interesting that "choice fatigue" is found just about everywhere, from what show to watch on Netflix to what toy your kid picks up. Semi related anecdote but I recently picked up a Steam Deck with the intention of emulating PS2 games. One thing I was very intentional about is to not load it up right away with every game imaginable but rather, go one game at a time, much like I used to when I still had to buy these games at the store.
I use the Deck quite often and attribute much of that to the fact that I limited my game options, as if I loaded up every game I could possibly play then I would just drown in choices.
I've been debating getting a steam deck for a few years now and getting close to pulling the trigger. That's good advice, thank you
Steamdeck is awesome. Just don’t sign up for the wishlist sale emails . I had to turn off notifications because I was buying way more games than I could play.
> One thing I was very intentional about is to not load [the Steam Deck] up right away with every game imaginable but rather, go one game at a time
I attribute my continued, regular enjoyment of my Playdate console to Panic's intentional choice to throttle the Season One games to once per week. Now I purchase a new game or two every month from their catalogue. I think if I got it already fully loaded I wouldn't have enjoyed it as much, which is really counter-intuitive to me and was an opportunity for introspection.
Sounds like mindfulness - set your intention before you use something and keep checking in to make sure you're not getting distracted (by something other than the game!)
What beefs me with Netflix that none of top100 non-english movies are on it. Yes it’s tiring to pick be picking trash.
I feel the same way about books.
Yep. Currently going through choice fatigue in trying to decide what program to use for designing things that will be 3D printed. There's also a seemingly endless number of guides to help you choose, each with its own set of reasons, which only expands the choice landscape even further.
I have a 9 month old and we are drowning in toys. We have bought very few of them. The article is clearly not written by a parent because it barely touches on Buy Nothing Groups on Facebook.
We've barely bought any clothes either. They all come from Buy Nothing groups. Kids grow out of toys and clothes every 3 months. Parents are desperate to offload this stuff.
And my wife has become a hoarder as have other parents in the neighbourhood. Buy Nothing groups seem to set off some sort of hoarding affliction in parents.
My local group is not "buy nothing" but rather "zero waste" but yeah the amount of quasi-trash that my wife keeps bringing home ("this is broken but I'll fix it!") is crazy.
A few weeks ago she managed to offload a pink salt lamp to a lady, mentioned "this is not working but should be easy to fix" and the lady replied she's just gonna feed it to some goats and it was glorious.
I could be totally off the mark but this sounds very much like leboncoin!
> The article is clearly not written by a parent because it barely touches on Buy Nothing Groups on Facebook.
The author very clearly indicates they have children. I don't think the author wants to make it an article about themselves.
Keep in mind: Toys just show up from well-meaning people. There's a lot of social momentum around gifting; I started dreading Christmas because it means a bunch of toys my kids won't play with.
And, not only am I drowning in toys, I'm drowning in books too.
pretty much the only toys i get for my kids to get are lego compatible bricks. with those it doesn't make a difference if you have 1 or 10 kg of them. just add to the pile.
no books in my house because we are moving to often. but i grew up in a library. my dad probably has 10-15m worth of bookshelves. from my granddad we inherited 3 or 4 times as much. but they were both collectors, curating their collections with care. still, sorting through those books to figure out whats valuable is a lifetime occupation. and i can see how a lot of books can be overwhelming if you are not into that.
a year ago i heard about someone passing away leaving behind a house with a collection of 75000 books. the cost to sort through them would be higher than the value of the collection, so instead it all goes to a landfill because i a not even sure it can be recycled or the cost of getting it recycled was to much too.
There are a few types of toys that my wife and I are still ok with getting and Lego is one of them. She's started using the phrase "more really is more" to describe the category. Basically, it's systems where you build something and the more you have, the more things you can do: Lego, Brio, Magna-Tiles, Hot Wheels track, etc. Even things like Pokemon cards (if your kid actually plays the game) can fall into this. You do have to be careful not to end up with too many of these systems, especially really similar ones.
We're also still ok with getting books. We have a few too many for our shelf space, but at their current ages, our kids are aging out of books about as quickly as they receive new ones. I just need to do a better job of giving away the old ones more regularly.
Yes! I've run out of ways to tell MY parents not to get toys for my kids for Christmas/birthdays. I can ask directly for no physical things; I can suggest tickets to shows or evens, memberships to museums or zoos, etc; I can point out every time they come over that there's not enough space for the things we already have; I can tell them what sorts of clothes the kids could use instead. They're still going to get each kid a "showstopper" (toy workbench, Big Wheel, something physically large) plus several cheap plastic trinkets... plus the clothes.
And that's just my parents. I can politely talk to them about not getting physical things for my kids, but then there's all of the extended family that loves to get them big, cheap plastic stuff, too. I know they're trying to be generous and don't really understand the fallout, but I'm starting to reconsider the whole "it's the thought that counts" idea.
I need to do a better job of helping the kids periodically go through and give stuff away, but 1) try explaining to a 3-year-old why giving away your toys is a good thing, and 2) the influx of new things always seems to outstrip the rate at which I can find time to get rid of stuff.
Try not to worry. Its not like your baby's first Christmas is just just round the corner.
Probably has something to do with the price of zero. The concept keeps showing up in random feeds for me, and it’s something both marketers and behavioral economists like to talk about. It seems free short circuits a lot of our normal cognitive pathways.
That said, I learned an interesting trick years ago. If you’re trying to get rid of junk, leaving it on the side of the road with a free sign is not as effective as using a sign with a slightly more than nominal amount. $25 used to be the sweet spot, $50 might be better today. Probably depends on the thing. Make it look like they’re getting a deal. Items tend to disappear after that, though I did once have someone knock and pay.
There's a big fat grey area between being a hoarder and simply not being wasteful ;-)
Good luck!
There's not enough energy left after a regular work day to make the decisions to winnow out all the toys That . Just . Keep . Coming .
I'm pretty convinced that it's ruining fun.
We moved a few months ago, and even now about 90% of their toys are still packed up in boxes. No exaggeration. We didn't make a thing of it, we just quietly decided not to unpack anything by default - neither kids' stuff nor parents' stuff - and instead only unpack specific things when someone specifically wants them. Because how often do you get such a good chance to find out which of your possessions you actually care about?
So far what we've seen is:
This method is called "packing party" (without the moving) by the [Mm]inimalists.
In work environments it often takes the form of red tagging (https://www.learnleansigma.com/guides/5s-red-tagging/)
> In work environments it often takes the form of red tagging (https://www.learnleansigma.com/guides/5s-red-tagging/)
That sounds like a terrible idea... but now I understand where the insanity of our last wiki migration came from. The rule was to not automatically migrate anything that wasn't modified in the last year. Everything else needed to be migrated manually, by hand. It was sold as a great opportunity to "clean up."
We lost a lot of important design and reference documentation. My systems were fine, but if the last lead had been in charge during the transition, we'd have been fucked.
I think kids get overwhelmed by too many toys the same way we get overwhelmed when we have too many things laying around. Every time we get a new toy for my kid we ask him to give up one of the older toys they're not playing with. It worked out pretty well so far.
I’ve moved a little while ago and kids loved going to garage to look in random boxes for toys
It looks like the parents in the article are not teaching their children that each kind of toy should be put away before the next toy gets brought out to play with. Teaching children that mixing all one's toys up creates an unusable chaos is a good lesson for how to (not) organize one's work environment, room's clothing, kitchen area, etc. Installing a sense of order is IMO a valuable lesson for young people.
As a family with a lot of Lego (both daughter's Friends stuff and son's Technics and Ninjago), they have put in signifcant work to keep it sorted so that it remains usable.
I understand that most parents are not so diligent (time constraints for working parents are brutal), but our primary advantage is that the kids have never had their own tvs or internet-connected devices (except for son's chess computer which is in our living room). Not having on-demand media has left them needing to choose their own activities, which includes asking to watch something specific within our shared media computer.
What is nice about this is that we almost never have to ask either of them to clean/organize their areas, because they have learned the Marie Kondo-style kind of joy in keeping your area organized. And, yes, our daughter read and loved that book.
[Side note: not having on-demand media also helps develop their joy of reading, though it was more difficult for our son than daughter.]
But can we maybe for once ease off on the blatantly moralizing at parents?
In my circle of friends and family, every single parent wants to uphold this standard. The only ones who have actually succeeded in consistently maintaining it also have a very authoritarian parenting style. Everyone else has settled on compromising to various degrees.
Morality is what keeps one race of people from enslaving other folks; keeps someone from robbing or killing another, and many other negative attitudes and behaviors. We human beings are the only moral creatures around here, being able to learn from our mistakes, evaluate the results of our actions, and change how we go about things. This world absolutely needs more moralizing, not less, but not self-righteous I'm-better-than-you kinds of pompous bullsh_t, but just results-based, impartial discussion of what the best outcomes are and what the best methods are to achieving them.
Regarding parenting, one has to find the middle way, being neither abusive nor too slack.
The important thing to understand is that children are intrinsically selfish, and that we have to teach them empathy and kindness, and -- most importantly -- that they have selfish impulses they must resist, in order for the society as a whole to function its best.
No, most people do not have the level of understanding about human nature to properly educate their children. Not having learned how to live, parents are now doing their best, but have failed to question the inertia of our world techno culture, that is overlaid on their native age-old culture. And now we see how negatively social media via smart phones has affected our children (and parents, too, seems to me).
It is the blind leading the blind, but anyone with material wealth is so very cocksure that they know best. "Might makes right" and "wealth means intelligence" are the maxims of the day, yet both are leading us to less and less desirable outcomes.
As Jamiroquai's Jay Kay said in Virtual Insanity, "I think it's time to find a new religion." That new religion requires skepticism about our societal/cultural inertias, and being open to new ideas about community and the role of compassion in all our doings, our doings' effects, and the intentions behind those doings.
> authoritarian parenting style
Because they are on their devices all the time too…
I have known plenty of parents who, as you suggest, do not try. We ourselves have tried various tactics, but sometimes the children just absolutely refuse. And the thing about cleaning up is that the person with the highest tolerance for messiness usually "wins" (and this doesn't only apply to children). :-)
And yeah, there may be room for creative incentive structures / choice architecture. The effectiveness of these things is a function of the parents, the children, and the conditions, and sometimes there are just more important things to attend to so we let this one go.
My kids (my son espcially) understood from a young age that their toys can disappear at any time, should my wife and my very minimal suggestions be ignored. It never needed to happen, but they fully understood that I keep my promises and that their choices could have that effect. No violence, no intimidation, just a negative outcome they will feel and dislike.
Once a child understands that their favorite toy can simply disappear forever, they have learned how to form their own incentive structure, with our gentle help, of course. Along the way, though, we made sure they understood that we love them and work hard to make them happy, but that we also have a far greater depth of understanding about how things need to done. That means, for example, that one always knocks on the bathroom door :-)
This world is a tricky place. I suggest that the only way to best orient one's moral compass -- and entire life, thereby -- is through compassion. All relationships, including parent-child, spouse-spouse, and employer-employee always benefit from being as compassionate as possible. Even when dealing with a violent sociopath, having compassion ensures that one is not acting out of bigotry, self-superiority, pleasure of oppression, vindictiveness, or any other negative motivation; compassion helps us take the whole into consideration, and not just our own selfish benefit.
There is no more important place for this perspective than in parenting, where our children's lives are literally at our mercy. Learning how to develop wisdom via compassion is where the art comes in, but all art begins and ends with hard graft, with mistakes and learning and getting better through brutally honest self-reflection.
Reminds me of going through my old toy chest with my parents. Most of what I found I just tossed - my mom wanted to offload to goodwill but I was sure few of them were worth it.
The items I wanted to keep were mostly either silly figures of animals I like (old-school dinosaurs, etc), or creative stuff like Bionicles. In fact, I took home the Bionicles and spent a few weekends actually playing with them, creating new figures. I'm certainly not neurotypical, but I feel that a decent barometer for toys that will truly engage a child is "Could a creative adult also enjoy this?"
I have some young children in my life and agree the landscape of toys-and-their-ads is insane these days. Especially with the crisp unboxing videos, it's so hard not to want to get the weird (and, truthfully, often quite creative, on the designer's part) stuff that's coming out. I sympathize with parents; it's never going to be easy to say no even once you've identified that a badly desired toy is actually going to be a waste of money 6 hours after purchase.
> "Could a creative adult also enjoy this?"
That's a very good metric. I've had friends ask me when I come up with an activity or toy, "how did you think of x?" The answer is "it sounded fun to me if I was a kid."
Many of your odd toys don't even meet modern safety standards and so should be either tossed or put in a collectors display cabinet where kids won't touch them. Sure we survived, but that doesn't make them toys safe.
Oh no, "You'll shoot your eye out kid"
You jest, but if that kid weren’t wearing glasses…
I was thinking more of lawn darts. One look at those, and you just know that one is eventually going to end up in the back of someone’s skull.
I feel like I missed out by being born too late to enjoy those.
I was old enough to see them, but my dad looked at them and said that can't possibly be safe and so refused to let us have them. It was almost a decade latter (or so I remember) before they were recalled.
Yeah, I wonder how horrible the plasticizers were in the Playtex baby bottle nipple-tops of the 1970s. First they heated up the Similac in a little plastic pouch/bag, then slapped that nipple on top, then we sucked it all in.
The biggest takeaway for me is that toys are 4x cheaper to make than they were 20 years ago, adjusted for inflation. So it's just easier to buy more of them.
As another poster mentions, this article fails to dig into the Buy Nothing communities, or even Facebook Marketplace. We actively try to get rid of the kids stuff as they outgrow them, and these are the two places we first hit up.
Toys I remember from the 1980s had already outsourced production to Taiwan. I assume that things soon moved to China, but it is astonishing to think that Chinese labor could have made already cheap Asian production so much cheaper. So, I assume that the drop in production costs is driven by some kind of industrial process improvements?
I talked with the parents of a 30-year-old family member. They said their child had overflowing toys 29 years ago...
Not to mention the really cheap plastic stuff given away in gift bags when it is someone's birthday. Small non-functional yo-yo's balls with paddle. etc. Since you can't give food or candy for fear of nuts.
For things like LEGO they are mostly specific sets, so they get built and displayed like models by my kids. Rarely to they build random stuff like I did when I was little, with only a small amount of LEGO.
When did gift bags at parties become a thing? When I was a kid the social contract was "I host the party you give me a present, and next time you get one".
When my kids come home with gift bags I feel like screaming.
I think the trend of gift bags comes from a good place. Parents saw that when the birthday kid gets everything, it's easy for that to become a lesson in selfishness and Main Character Syndrome. Having the birthday kid also give gifts to the guests helps make it feel like a shared experience where everyone is important.
The plastic junk is just collateral damage.
My advice for young parents is to make birthdays and holidays gifts of an experience. Encourage loved ones to not buy any toys and contribute to a party, train ride, bouncy castle, petting zoo... whatever it is. If you want to do any gifts at all, make the tradition 1 or 2 special gifts that the parents pick out. Of all the loot a kid acquires on their
Your kids will have better, more memorable birthdays and you'll have SOOOO much less junk and clutter in the house.
My own experience, but I've been very happy with the level of toys I have. It feels manageable and I can pick up all toys within 5 minutes (depending on how scattered they got). However, whenever kids come over to my house (particularly slightly older children- 6+), their first comment almost without fail is "where are all the toys?"
I feel like our choice has been fairly intentional.
It's interesting that the article keeps referring to stuff kids see in tv or YouTube. But my kids don't watch TV with ads and don't watch YouTube unboxing videos, and my house is still too full of toys.
I have to keep reminding my friends and relatives to not get them more stuff. Toys are just too easy too available.
You’ve gotta get ahead of the problem when they’re little, get rid of toys early and often. Kid doesn’t play with it, away it goes. If the grandparents don’t like it they can keep them at their house.
Exceptions made for the kids or parents favorites that aren’t broken: Barbie, Hot Wheels, Lego, etc.
I'm very proud of our ton-of-Lego, especially my Unimog :-)
And, someday, all our Lego Friends sets will find good homes.
If there's a social expectation of coming with a present to your nephew or cousin or mother or whoever's birthday, or at Christmas, or whatever, and you know no-one wants to have a discussion about different ways to do things... what do you do, other than buy some silly thing that ticks the required social box? Genuine question.
I've tried a few little things myself, but with very little success. There just is an established set of patterns where you have to buy certain things, or else there'll be mumbling behind your back, and there doesn't seem to be a way around it in the short term (other than accepting the mumbling).
Toys are cheap, many last a long time, and they're handed down / given away regularly. Even when we bought toys we got them at a second hand store and they were crazy cheap.
By the time I had a second child we didn't "need" anymore toys, but we still got them for birthdays, holidays and so on.
I'm a parent of two young kids and don't really sympathize with this.
Its self-inflicted and part of a larger culture of Having More Stuff. Having lived most of my life in South America and later migrated to North America, I feel I can see that more clearly than people who grew up here.
People always go over the top with anything material. Have a single child? You need a minivan. Family of four? You need a 3-level, 2000-sqft house (with the garage where you will never park your minivan, because it is full to the ceiling with clutter you never use). Toys are just another facet of this culture.
As someone from the outside who has been around, I can say the rest of world is not like this. Its not particularly hard to avoid. Just buy less stuff, and donate/dispose of things you don't want or need.
>Have a single child? You need a minivan.
Seems like hyperbole. If anything, the empirical evidence suggests the opposite. You can only fit 2 child seats in a "normal" car, so if you want 3 kids (requiring 3 child seats), you need a minivan. However, minivans are apparently so undesirable that there's a mild contraceptive effect on births, because parents keep their kid count to under 3 to avoid getting a minivan.
https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.1086/731812
> As someone from the outside who has been around, I can say the rest of world is not like this.
I agree with your general point that this is part of a broader cultural phenomenon, but I think your "rest of world" point is over extrapolating from your specific life experience in a small number of countries. I grew up in a European country and the culture around toys/stuff/etc is basically the same as the US.
I considered adding "the rest of the world (or what I know of it)", but that is kind of implied, as no single person can plausibly have knowledge of life in every single place in the world.
I lived in a few different places in Europe, and while the underlying desires that power materialism might be the same as in the US/Canada, I would very strongly argue that the practical manifestation of those desires is still at least an order of magnitude lower. Or in other words: middle-class Americans have much easier and cheaper access to industrialized goods, not to mention large housing, than most of their EU counterparts.
My family has passed down through the generations an old farmhouse in the mountains where we go on vacation. When my father was growing up, they would pack the family of five and their bags into a Volkswagen Beetle and head up for a weekend. When I was growing up, we were also a family of five and we filled a minivan to the brim for a weekend.
This is very true, it’s super stressful for kids especially when they have a messy room depending on their personality type they can be completely paralyzed by the amount of toys. Having higher quality or even just toys curated to the core desires of the child can help reduce wasteful purchases. I can’t count how many “awesome” toys I’ve donated to goodwill because my kids realized they didn’t want them after a few days, or weeks.
I own an Analogue Pocket, which is an FPGA system for the gameboy color (and more). I have found that by forcing myself to just play the inserted cartridge instead of games loaded on the the memory card, I have a high attention span for the game and can play for longer periods.
It is a sad and colossal waste. From experience, when the kids are grown you have to decide what to do with the toys that are often half broken or with missing parts you have no idea where they ended up. As the article states, these toys come into your house whether you want them or not. You agonize about how to get rid of them in a responsible way (much more time consuming than acquiring the toy to begin with), only to find out that the landfill is pretty much the only option.
My kids have a doll castle.
So many barbies and barbie-like dolls have shown up, that they are often laying in a pile at the bottom of the doll castle.
I dread opening the doll castle because the sight of the dolls laying, stacked on the castle's floor, just brings back images I've seen of ethnic cleansing.
Is anyone here involved in the toy industry, whether in design or another role? What’s the industry’s take on this?
Is this bad or good?
Having young relatives, I've noticed this issue. I attribute it to several factors:
1. Declining birth rates. There are more adults in a given child's life;
2. Delayed child birth. Not only are there less children per year because of this, but it also means the parents and relatives are older and tend to be more affluent;
3. Larger houses. Possessions are like a gas. They will expand to fill available space. This affects every possession type, not just toys. Where once a family of 5 might be in a 3x1 1100sq ft house, now it's a family of 3 in a 3000sq ft house;
4. Toys are generally cheaper (the article mentions this) and easier to get thanks to Amazon;
5. Increased information. You're now aware of many things you previously weren't before the Internet. So an aunt or uncle could bring a toy you've never heard of. Now? You've seen Tiktoks about everything the second it's available. So with increased means and knowledge of pretty much everything, there are fewer unfulfilled needs.
6. Guilt. People generally have to work longer hours, more jobs and harder than they did 30+ years ago. As necessary as that is, you will find people "compensating" for the lack of time with material things;
7. Children spend less time playing with each other because now everything is a "play date". We've come a long way from the TV ads of "do you know where your children are?" that would play at 10pm. Now you get arrested if your children walk to the store by themselves [1]. As much as people bemaon video games, computers and devices, it's often the only social outlet with peers children have.
8. A single device (eg console, phone, tablet) can replace the need for many toys so these things tend to collect rather than breaking and getting thrown out.
[1]: https://abcnews.go.com/US/georgia-moms-arrest-puts-free-rang...
1. "Declining" is true, but "barely" is a needed prequalifier[1]
2. There are more children per year [2]. In fact, there are more children alive now than there ever have been in U.S. history.
3,5,6 - Maybe.
4 - I think cheap toys is the most likely explanation. Toys today are SUPER cheap compared to the 1980s. And more capable. And more cool. I am so jealous of the toys kids have available today.
7. I take it you don't have children or live in a "weird" area. Where I am (western US), there are children everywhere playing together, often outside! Anecdotal, I know, but so is yours =D And sure, you can find the crazy "news" stories about parents getting warnings/arrested for letting their children walk a mile outside. The reason those stories make the news is that they're bizarre and rare. The more likely reason is a single power-hungry cop/social worker who just had to prove to everyone how powerful they are.
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_Sta...
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_Sta...
[2] https://www.childstats.gov/americaschildren/tables/pop1.asp
You nailed it with all of those, from my experience. Nearly all of the toys we have were gifts. Two sets of grandparent, with not enough grandchildren to go around, and more options than ever. Even birthday parties have us struggling to fill the car with all the new crap. Plushies, barbies, Bluey merch, Gabby merch. I think my and my parent's generations can't seem to help themselves. I think there's also some compensating for being able to give the kids things you would never have been able to get. I know I'm susceptible to it as well. I bought a rock tumbler kit for them the other day, because I always wanted one as a kid.
Too many overcompensating adults, too few kids to be the recipients of that compensation, too many toys out there to buy. This doesn't even touch on the scarcity/scalping of certain toys as well, which also breaks the brain in its own way. What do you mean, no one has Muffin from Bluey in stock and it's $80 on ebay? Now my brain is on a mission to find it and buy it at MSRP, when I really shouldn't care to begin with.
The article is not talking about the real cause: There is an ongoing extermination of young people through low birth rates. Any child today is inheriting toys from several childless uncles and aunts and friends of parents, or getting presents from them.
I know the "media" talks all about poor birth rates and all. But, there are more children now in the US[1] than there ever has been:
[1] https://www.childstats.gov/americaschildren/tables/pop1.asp
Do these statistics correspond with what you observe in everyday life? There is a reason why Lego has shifted focus from the child market to the adult market.
But I admit that declining birthrates is probably not the only reason. There are decades of mass produced toys that get inherited/reused, and as the article points out; mass produced goods are cheaper than ever, especially plastic stuff like toys.
Yes. All I can assume (by making an ass out of me) is that you live in a big city. Come to suburbia, there are children everywhere, all the time.
As for the lego thing. Yeah, just take a moment to think this through. Lego has become absurdly popular with adult nerds. Adult nerds have money. Children do not have money. If your company was previously marketing to children. But, suddenly had a large influx of interest from people with money. Who would you market to?
Are you implying "The Government" is lying? Because now we're entering crazy-land and I won't discuss that further.
Children never had money to buy their own toys (or diapers for that matter). These adult nerds would buy Lego for their kids - if they had kids. Lego has become absurdly popular with adult nerds because they've focused on that market. Lego needs to make money and they do that by selling stuff to guys who are 20+ years old, instead of waiting until they are 45 and have their first child.
Statistics can be misinterpreted. If you think that somebody who is skeptical of government statistics is crazy, well you should have seen the wonderful statistics in the Soviet Union.
The official government statistics for the fertility rate is below replacement level in the US, meaning that the ratio of adults per child is higher. If we believe government stats.
Indeed, same thing with housewares. How many sets of wedding china does anybody need?
Please keep your breeding fetish private.