That was a bit ironic, indeed, but at least the USB-A works!
For what it's worth, the majority of mechanical RGB keyboards and mice are USB-A anyways, so, if you're fine with a very powerful machine that wouldn't have an internal keyboard support for a few weeks, sounds like a good advice anyways!
An ARM64 is "a very powerful computer"? The whole promise with ARM is better thermals and long battery life, not screaming performance. With the thermals/cpu not working, we don't even get that.
Ubuntu has an experimental installation image for this laptop at https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/ubuntu-24-10-concept-snapdrag... . Everything works except for audio and screen brightness control (I saw a patch for audio upcoming on LKML. I don't know about the brightness control, but it is stuck on high. Nevertheless, it still reports 12+ hours of battery with a bright screen.). It is a nice laptop, if you like the Lenovo T series.
I'm a bit puzzled about their weird naming. "T14s Gen 6" when apparently "T14s Gen 5" was Intel based. Surely changing the entire CPU architecture deserves a new model name?
I always ask about battery consumption... Apple seems to be on another galaxy right now. I decided to stop waiting and installed Parallels to run Ubuntu there... I really wish the best for Asahi Linux.
The M3 Max laptops can cross-build FreeBSD at a fraction of the time of the ThinkPad, being at around 791 seconds for `make -j17` versus the T14s being at 3210 seconds (with `make -j12`) according to the post above.
You probably can follow build(5) from FreeBSD hosts instead.
NetBSD is similar, but you need to edit `tools/llvm/Makefile` and make sure that you use the following target for `support-modules` instead:
support-modules: module-test.cpp Makefile
- if ${HOST_CXX} -stdlib=libc++ -c -fmodules -fcxx-modules -fmodules-cache-path=./module.cache \
- ${.CURDIR}/module-test.cpp 3> /dev/null 2>&1; then \
- echo HOST_SUPPORTS_MODULES=yes > ${.TARGET}; \
- else \
- echo HOST_SUPPORTS_MODULES=no > ${.TARGET}; \
- fi
+ # Just don't use modules pre for C++20 targets. Some compilers cannot support them.
+ echo HOST_SUPPORTS_MODULES=no > ${.TARGET};
You can further speed up NetBSD builds by editing `share/mk/bsd.sys.mk` and removing the workaround for SunPro's cc. The repeated invocation of /bin/mv for each object file really does add up.
I have not tried cross builds of OpenBSD from other operating systems.
Word of warning, I ended up getting a lot of strange compiler segfaults within xgcc when using when using `MKGCC=yes` instead `MKLLVM=yes` with NetBSD, specifically with floating point heavy code. I never did end up finding out why that happens.
Using the Ubuntu experimental image on the T14s Gen 6, the screen brightness is not adjustable, so for me it is stuck on high. Nevertheless, Gnome claims 12+ hours remaining when near 100%. In Windows where I can adjust the brightness, the battery lasts longer. Battery life is much better than any other x86 Thinkpad I've ever owned.
The CPU is pretty fast as well. I did no real benchmarks, but C++ std::sort() on the Snapdragon runs just 10-20% slower than on my 4 year old Ryzen 5 5600X desktop. Also, the base model T14s comes with 32G of memory, which is very nice.
On the other hand, I dropped mine in the street, damaging the upper right corner of the display (physically intact, but dead pixels in the corner). Even though the case material is nice, the laptop seems to be more fragile than older Thinkpads. (I've dropped my T480 and T450 numerous times, and never had issues other than cosmetic.) So the $35 accidental damage protection was worth it.
Mitchell Hashimoto has written extensively about his use of Linux in a VM on macOS. He published a NixOS configuration[1] which seems easy to use.
I recently bought a Mac mini M4 to experiment with this setup, and am strongly considering getting a MBP if it works as advertised. As a longtime ThinkPad user and F/LOSS enthusiast, it feels awful giving money to Apple to run Linux as a second-class citizen, but honestly there is just no comparable hardware that does what Apple has accomplished.
I'm actually thinking of switching from a Mac back to the PC, since everything is done in a browser anyways, regardless of the system, but the lack of the fanless laptops in the PC world isn't promising.
ThinkPad X13s Snapdragon was fanless, but it's a bit old now, plus, only 2x USB-C, without any USB-A ports, and a screen that doesn't open 180°, unlike any other ThinkPad, meh.
So far, I’ve had a very good user experience, but I haven’t yet tried using it exclusively for an extended period to compare its battery life with that of a bare Apple Silicon macOS. Mapping shortcuts now...
I upgraded from a 10-year-old Lenovo to a MacBook Pro M1 w/Asahi Linux for a while recently. It convinced me that we're not ready for ARM Linux desktops for general-purpose, regular-person use.
Besides all the crappy Linux desktop software today (I have been trying multiple recent distros out on multiple new laptops... all the Linux desktop stuff now is buggy, features are gone that were there 10 years ago... it's annoying as hell). The ARM experience is one of being a second-class citizen. A ton of apps are released as AppImages or Snaps/Flatpaks. But they have to be built for both X86_64 and ARM64, and extremely few are built for the latter. Even when they are built for it, they have their own bugs to be worked around, and there's fewer users, so you wait longer for a bugfix. The end result is you have fewer choices, compatibility and support.
I love the idea of an ARM desktop. But it's going to cause fragmentation of available developer (and corporate/3rd-party) resources. ARM devices individually are even more unique than X86_64 gear is, so each one requires more integration. I'm sticking to X86_64 so I don't have to deal with another set of problems.
Counterpoint: I've been on an M2 Macbook running NixOS-via-Asahi-installer for about a year, and I've run into maybe 2 applications that I cannot find in the Nix repos or flathub. I have a stable, fast, long-lasting machine running Hyprland and all the productivity software I've needed. I'm currently missing an internal microphone and, I believe, Thunderbolt (USB-C works fine) but this machine is faster than and as stable as it was when it had macOS on it.
I am as general purpose, regular person as you're going to find, in this world at least. I stare at a sentence like "In a functional programming language, everything is a function" and just blink. But a few months of blood and suffering to learn Nix/NixOS and I am managing the family's computers from a single repository and working faster than ever.
One hopeful note: the developers for the Snapdragon X Elite are active on the kernel mailing list, and they are supplying patches for specific laptops, including the T14s. Now I run Debian, so i don't use AppImages or Snaps or Flatpaks, but I expect to have a fully functional T14s Gen 6 running Trixie when it is released as stable next year, assuming Trixie uses kernel 6.12 or (hopefully) 6.13.
I love it(in context of FreeBSD):
—————
What does not work: Keyboard, mouse, TB & USB-C ports, thermal/freq mgt.
Conclusion: Highly recommended
Sounds like some of the Linux phones. This is our flagship device. It doesn't have a working camera or radios, but who needs those?
That was a bit ironic, indeed, but at least the USB-A works!
For what it's worth, the majority of mechanical RGB keyboards and mice are USB-A anyways, so, if you're fine with a very powerful machine that wouldn't have an internal keyboard support for a few weeks, sounds like a good advice anyways!
An ARM64 is "a very powerful computer"? The whole promise with ARM is better thermals and long battery life, not screaming performance. With the thermals/cpu not working, we don't even get that.
Somewhat surprised that networking is not mentioned in either list. Maybe a USB to ethernet dongle was used?
I mean it's a fun computer to write drivers for. You will be that dude if you make it all work and share with community
Ubuntu has an experimental installation image for this laptop at https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/ubuntu-24-10-concept-snapdrag... . Everything works except for audio and screen brightness control (I saw a patch for audio upcoming on LKML. I don't know about the brightness control, but it is stuck on high. Nevertheless, it still reports 12+ hours of battery with a bright screen.). It is a nice laptop, if you like the Lenovo T series.
OpenBSD has support for a number of Qualcomm Snapdragon X Elite machines.
A bit more works on the T14s Gen 6 too, such as the keyboard! ;-)
https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-cvs&m=172925590407875&w=2
> So when my regular HW-pusher had a T14s G6 with Qualcomm Snapdragon ARM64 CPU, for only EUR1000 + VAT, and I couldn't resist.
I wonder where Poul-Henning, who is based in Denmark, got that price. Perhaps he managed to get US pricing.
Lenovo EU are notorious for charging a ton of money for new models with limited supply. And poor after-market support, as everything is outsourced.
Linus tech tips reviewed these or something similar.
Short story: good but compatibility issues.
I'm a bit puzzled about their weird naming. "T14s Gen 6" when apparently "T14s Gen 5" was Intel based. Surely changing the entire CPU architecture deserves a new model name?
There's the "T14s Gen 6 (AMD)", "T14s Gen 6 (Intel)", and "T14s Gen 6 (Snapdragon)".
I'm not naming them either ... just telling you how it works.
T14(s) Gen5 were also available in AMD versions, so I guess there will be T14(s)-Gen6's in Intel/AMD/Qualcomm versions
(Typing this on a T14-Gen5-AMD, under linux, which is still not really stable with the amdgpu driver crashing at least weekly)
The Vivobook ARM from Asus also seems very decent, and it has a numpad.
Where I live, the T14s is also sold with 64GB memory. It's the cheapest VRAM around (although support for it is lacking everywhere).
I always ask about battery consumption... Apple seems to be on another galaxy right now. I decided to stop waiting and installed Parallels to run Ubuntu there... I really wish the best for Asahi Linux.
The M3 Max laptops can cross-build FreeBSD at a fraction of the time of the ThinkPad, being at around 791 seconds for `make -j17` versus the T14s being at 3210 seconds (with `make -j12`) according to the post above.
No idea about power consumptions.
It still scares me.
One is $1000 and the other is around $3000. So performance per dollar looks about right.
Not only performance per dollar but also battery duration/consumption.
The M3 Max though only boosts GPU - the M3 Pro has the same number of CPU cores at a lower price.
Not so on the M3 generation (nor the newer M4s). M3 Pro was particularly hobbled in this regard with only 6 performance cores vs 10 on the Max.
my m4 pro has 10 p cores as m4 max has ,get your facts right at least.
Do you have more details or a source on this? I'd like to learn more about the build process and timings.
Sure.
I basically did the following on trunk:
You probably can follow build(5) from FreeBSD hosts instead.NetBSD is similar, but you need to edit `tools/llvm/Makefile` and make sure that you use the following target for `support-modules` instead:
You can further speed up NetBSD builds by editing `share/mk/bsd.sys.mk` and removing the workaround for SunPro's cc. The repeated invocation of /bin/mv for each object file really does add up.I have not tried cross builds of OpenBSD from other operating systems.
Word of warning, I ended up getting a lot of strange compiler segfaults within xgcc when using when using `MKGCC=yes` instead `MKLLVM=yes` with NetBSD, specifically with floating point heavy code. I never did end up finding out why that happens.
I have an M3 but the battery life is not that great -- because you still want to run a Linux VM for actual engineering.
“Actual engineering” is incredibly subjective.
Arguably, more people do “actual engineering” on macOS and windows.
Using the Ubuntu experimental image on the T14s Gen 6, the screen brightness is not adjustable, so for me it is stuck on high. Nevertheless, Gnome claims 12+ hours remaining when near 100%. In Windows where I can adjust the brightness, the battery lasts longer. Battery life is much better than any other x86 Thinkpad I've ever owned.
The CPU is pretty fast as well. I did no real benchmarks, but C++ std::sort() on the Snapdragon runs just 10-20% slower than on my 4 year old Ryzen 5 5600X desktop. Also, the base model T14s comes with 32G of memory, which is very nice.
On the other hand, I dropped mine in the street, damaging the upper right corner of the display (physically intact, but dead pixels in the corner). Even though the case material is nice, the laptop seems to be more fragile than older Thinkpads. (I've dropped my T480 and T450 numerous times, and never had issues other than cosmetic.) So the $35 accidental damage protection was worth it.
Any issues or things you wish you had known with your current Parallels/Ubuntu set up? Asking since I've been considering doing the same thing
Mitchell Hashimoto has written extensively about his use of Linux in a VM on macOS. He published a NixOS configuration[1] which seems easy to use.
I recently bought a Mac mini M4 to experiment with this setup, and am strongly considering getting a MBP if it works as advertised. As a longtime ThinkPad user and F/LOSS enthusiast, it feels awful giving money to Apple to run Linux as a second-class citizen, but honestly there is just no comparable hardware that does what Apple has accomplished.
[1]: https://github.com/mitchellh/nixos-config
I'm actually thinking of switching from a Mac back to the PC, since everything is done in a browser anyways, regardless of the system, but the lack of the fanless laptops in the PC world isn't promising.
ThinkPad X13s Snapdragon was fanless, but it's a bit old now, plus, only 2x USB-C, without any USB-A ports, and a screen that doesn't open 180°, unlike any other ThinkPad, meh.
So far, I’ve had a very good user experience, but I haven’t yet tried using it exclusively for an extended period to compare its battery life with that of a bare Apple Silicon macOS. Mapping shortcuts now...
> What does not work: Keyboard, mouse, TB & USB-C ports, thermal/freq mgt.
So, eh, yeah. Basically useless as a laptop.
Is the "Conclusion: Highly recommended" at the end sarcasm?
I upgraded from a 10-year-old Lenovo to a MacBook Pro M1 w/Asahi Linux for a while recently. It convinced me that we're not ready for ARM Linux desktops for general-purpose, regular-person use.
Besides all the crappy Linux desktop software today (I have been trying multiple recent distros out on multiple new laptops... all the Linux desktop stuff now is buggy, features are gone that were there 10 years ago... it's annoying as hell). The ARM experience is one of being a second-class citizen. A ton of apps are released as AppImages or Snaps/Flatpaks. But they have to be built for both X86_64 and ARM64, and extremely few are built for the latter. Even when they are built for it, they have their own bugs to be worked around, and there's fewer users, so you wait longer for a bugfix. The end result is you have fewer choices, compatibility and support.
I love the idea of an ARM desktop. But it's going to cause fragmentation of available developer (and corporate/3rd-party) resources. ARM devices individually are even more unique than X86_64 gear is, so each one requires more integration. I'm sticking to X86_64 so I don't have to deal with another set of problems.
Counterpoint: I've been on an M2 Macbook running NixOS-via-Asahi-installer for about a year, and I've run into maybe 2 applications that I cannot find in the Nix repos or flathub. I have a stable, fast, long-lasting machine running Hyprland and all the productivity software I've needed. I'm currently missing an internal microphone and, I believe, Thunderbolt (USB-C works fine) but this machine is faster than and as stable as it was when it had macOS on it.
I am as general purpose, regular person as you're going to find, in this world at least. I stare at a sentence like "In a functional programming language, everything is a function" and just blink. But a few months of blood and suffering to learn Nix/NixOS and I am managing the family's computers from a single repository and working faster than ever.
One hopeful note: the developers for the Snapdragon X Elite are active on the kernel mailing list, and they are supplying patches for specific laptops, including the T14s. Now I run Debian, so i don't use AppImages or Snaps or Flatpaks, but I expect to have a fully functional T14s Gen 6 running Trixie when it is released as stable next year, assuming Trixie uses kernel 6.12 or (hopefully) 6.13.