Elon Musk's Conversations with Vladimir Putin

(wsj.com)

91 points | by NN88 9 months ago ago

65 comments

  • breadwinner 9 months ago

    Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason. [1]

    To "adhere" means to support or be loyal to. In this context, it refers to someone aligning themselves with the enemies of the U.S., either by joining them or providing help and resources, such as intelligence, weapons, or logistical support.

    [1] https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?edition=prelim&path=%2Fp...

    • Caius-Cosades 9 months ago

      Hypothetically speaking, would supporting an entity that attacked an US Navy ship, directly resulting in death of US navy servicemen, constitute as such?

      • ttyprintk 8 months ago

        Treason requires allegiance to the United States. Seditious conspiracy is more often used. For example, Jan 6 revolutionaries might have denounced the United States thinking that it would get them off a treason charge, only to discover that denunciation is a conspiracy to commit sedition.

    • lawn 9 months ago

      Sounds like Trump would match this description too with his relationship with Putin, how he sent Covid machines to him instead of the American people, how he's promised to withdraw all support to Ukraine and cripple NATO.

      Essentially he wants to give Putin everything he asks for.

      • ttyprintk 8 months ago

        He’s very protected because less than 2/3 of the Senate voted to convict his impeachable offenses. The reality of Presidential treason depends on his/her reputation among our betters in the Senate.

    • belter 9 months ago

      "...Following the Russian invasion of Ukraine, Musk floated a controversial proposal on Twitter in October 2022, arguing that Ukraine should permanently cede occupied territories (e.g. Crimea) to Russia, and that Ukraine should drop its bid to join NATO..." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Views_of_Elon_Musk

      "Russia’s Putin praises Elon Musk as an ‘outstanding person’ and ‘talented businessman’" - https://www.cnbc.com/2023/09/12/russias-vladimir-putin-prais...

    • moosedman 9 months ago

      [flagged]

  • MilnerRoute 9 months ago

    That puts this story in a new light.

    "In October 2023, Musk shared a meme to his millions of followers" that according to leaked documents obtained by a number of European media outlets "was put together by none other than the Social Design Agency" -- a Moscow-based group accused by the U.S. of orchestrating a "persistent foreign malign influence campaign" on behalf of the Kremlin.

    https://futurism.com/the-byte/elon-musk-shared-putin-propaga...

    • libertine 9 months ago

      I think the most obvious thing has been the volume of Russian propaganda bots that flooded Twitter since Elon acquired it.

      We're talking about accounts posing as US citizens, for example, spreading disinformation.

      It was like a backdoor was opened for this sort of thing to flow unchecked.

      • lawn 9 months ago

        Musk financing the purchase of Twitter using Russian oligarchs is an even bigger proof.

        • blooalien 9 months ago

          Yeah, and Russia "mysteriously" getting more and more "illegal" StarLink terminals / access... Can't Musk cut off their service (since they're sanctioned and supposedly "illegally" using the service / equipment)?

          • inemesitaffia 9 months ago

            [flagged]

            • libertine 9 months ago

              It's quite mysterious how an internet service provider isn't aware of their devices being used in an active warzone at the hands of war criminals and doesn't seem to care that much to see if their devices are violating sanctions or not.

              It's almost like you're saying that Starlink is a risk to national and international security because any terrorist group can use it unchecked.

              Except when Putin requested him not to deploy Starlink on Taiwan, and looks like Elon complied: https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/news/4938264

              If it's Russia using them on the battlefield, "oh anyone can use it it's a retail product"... if it's Taiwan "well it's complicated"...

              So maybe you're right, Starlink should become heavily regulated moving forward.

              I'm all for the law taking action on these matters. If there's corruption at play, let it come to light.

              • inemesitaffia 9 months ago

                You're being ridiculous. The equipment is being used in Ukraine, not Russia and devices don't violate sanctions. People and Organizations do.

                There's a Pentagon working group responsible for dealing with the proliferation issue in Ukraine and the Pentagon claims SpaceX is proactive and fully cooperative.

                Starlink isn't operative in the areas of Ukraine subject to sanctions and SpaceX has no agreement with any Russian entity to supply them with equipment. They don't accept Russian payments or deliver to Russia

                Any terrorist group can use any similar product. You can go online and buy similar products. Did you somehow think Starlink was the first company with SATCOM or phased arrays? I've noted the Taliban leadership has a preference for iPhones and Kim Jung Un drives a BMW.

                The Taliban also used SATCOM on drones before Starlink existed.

                Taiwan doesn't want Starlink. When they are ready to deal they'll get it. Like many countries and territories have.

                Read that article you linked and stop with jumping to conclusions on headlines. You'll get the insights you need. A hint is SpaceX doesn't do joint ventures.

                Starlink is already heavily regulated by multiple regulators

        • inemesitaffia 9 months ago

          [flagged]

          • Zigurd 9 months ago

            8VC is a Russian-run firm and an investor in Twitter.

          • lawn 9 months ago

            They were recently forced to release their investors and yes there's Russian money there. It's just an internet search or two away.

    • dzhiurgis 9 months ago

      > shared a meme

      You can stop reading here

      • luuurker 9 months ago

        Why would you stop reading there? Because the content in question is an image with text instead of a video or a short article?

  • aspenmayer 9 months ago
  • moosedman 9 months ago

    Treason season started early.

    • schiffern 9 months ago

      Under US law, "treason" means either 1) trying to overthrow the government or 2) providing "aid and comfort" to enemies in war. The last time I checked, the US has not declared war with Russia.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treason_laws_in_the_United_Sta...

      • dekhn 9 months ago

        I think the Logan act is probably more apt? It came up a year ago when this was originally reported https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-08-21/musk-told...

      • JojoFatsani 9 months ago

        War or not, he is aiding and comforting hostile nations.

        • dzhiurgis 9 months ago

          Allegedly.

          Are you actually unaware he is getting contracts from DOD?

      • Zigurd 9 months ago

        Has anyone litigated whether a war needs to be declared to be a war? Not treating war as a technicality is one reason judges exist.

        • ttyprintk 8 months ago

          It’s irrational to demand that. Treason can obviously preclude war. In practice, seditious conspiracy charges are far more common. There was a slave revolt in the 1800s after which charges of treason didn’t stick because resisting slavery is not war against the nation.

      • ttyprintk 8 months ago

        Many treason cases do not depend on Congress declaring war:

        Slave rebellions

        Puerto-Rican separatists

        American citizens implicated in terrorism

        The Congress has never even come close to declaring war in any of these circumstances.

      • moosedman 9 months ago

        We're well on our way towards war, but also I did add the word early.

      • aguaviva 9 months ago

        No one said anything about US law specifically (which wouldn't apply to Musk anyway in this regard), or any kind of law.

        One can also read it as: "moral treason", betrayal, etc. Not for talking with the guy, per se. But at the moment, if anyone is talking with Putin, it should be for one purpose only: to end the war -- and with that explicit framework in mind. Not business as usual of any kind.

        And we shouldn't be expected to believe that they talked about “space as well as current and future technologies" in any case.

        • Zigurd 9 months ago

          There is a reason treason is both prominent is US law: it's in the constitution, and it is hard to convict because the definition is very narrow and requires specific evidence. The men at the center of our revolution were labelled traitors by the British.

          Though Elon is the kind of overachiever to possibly surmount a high bar, FARA might be a better bet.

        • schiffern 9 months ago

          On the contrary, in this very comment section posters have already called for Musk to be put on trial and possibly executed for treason. That doesn't sound very metaphorical...

          • aguaviva 9 months ago

            I see one such comment, but either way: I meant of course "no one" not posting the type of comment you'd be likely to ignore anyway.

          • JumpCrisscross 9 months ago

            Musk is speaking to people who facilitated attacks on U.S. warships. He should not have a security clearance if this is true. If that means him giving up control at SpaceX, so be it.

            • inemesitaffia 9 months ago

              [flagged]

              • JumpCrisscross 9 months ago

                > you're reading this because the contacts were reported

                No? No evidence that’s the Journal’s source. And we don’t know when what was reported.

                > article claims it's all good

                Where?

                • inemesitaffia 9 months ago

                  The article claims the intelligence agencies see nothing to take action over. One thing will be a lack of reporting of contacts

    • 9 months ago
      [deleted]
  • 42lux 9 months ago

    Speed running being Henry Ford any %.

  • amai 9 months ago

    "Putin has no common topics to discuss with Scholz now — Kremlin"

    https://tass.com/politics/1850993

    That was the answer when the German chancellor was thinking about talking to Putin.

    So it seems Musk has common topics to talk about with Putin.

  • MilnerRoute 9 months ago
  • breadwinner 9 months ago

    The correct title is Elon Musk's Secret Conversations With Vladimir Putin.

    Omitting the word "Secret" makes it seem like the conversations were innocuous. Keep in mind that Musk has a security clearance that allows him access to certain classified information. If he is having secret conversations with Putin while possessing classified information that's a problem.

  • 9 months ago
    [deleted]
  • karp773 9 months ago

    Looks like Putin, at 72, still enjoys working with high profile agents personally. What a dedication to the craft.

  • NN88 9 months ago

    >At one point, Putin asked the billionaire to avoid activating his Starlink satellite internet service over Taiwan as a favor to Chinese leader Xi Jinping, said two people briefed on the request.

    uh.

    holy s--t!

    • SlightlyLeftPad 9 months ago

      What the actual F?

    • moosedman 9 months ago

      The word for this is treason. Arrest him, strip him of his assets, revoke his citizenship, and put him on trial with the death penalty on the table.

      • bdjsiqoocwk 9 months ago

        Would be the happiest day of my life.

      • akimbostrawman 9 months ago

        Being allegedly asked a question is treason?

      • pikachu786 9 months ago

        [flagged]

      • inemesitaffia 9 months ago

        [flagged]

      • skeledrew 9 months ago

        And watch the value of those assets the US gov currently prizes become little more than nothing.

    • inemesitaffia 9 months ago

      [flagged]

  • adultSwim 9 months ago

    [flagged]

  • IamLoading 9 months ago

    We call this treason, ok sure. Cant say, I am confused by the word treason these days. You cannot deny the oligarchy thats present, When citizens united is being so aggressively embraced by the big corps, is that not treason?

    Disclaimer: Compleete neutral. Only alliance is with a MOSFET