I'm sure there are portion of us for whom this treasure trove recalls fond childhood memories of reading Dahl's short story The Mildenhall Treasure, a creative account of real events in 1942 surrounding the controversial finding of a huge cache of 4th century Roman silverware - one of the other great historical hoards dug up in modern Britain.
>A hoard of Norman-era silver coins unearthed five years ago in southwestern England has become Britain’s most valuable treasure find ever, after it was bought for £4.3 million ($5.6 million) by a local heritage trust.
Different article about the discovery of the Sutton Hoo treasure...
>The exact value of the Sutton Hoo treasure isn't widely known, in part because the items in the treasure have never been up for sale. They were donated to the British Museum by Edith, and have remained there ever since. Typically, the items are described as "priceless," suggesting that their value to the museum and as historical artifacts makes them incredibly valuable.
>Given their historical significance, it's easy to imagine that the value of the items in the treasure would be valued in tens or even hundreds of millions of dollars.
> For the group of seven metal detectorists who discovered the 2,584 silver pennies in the Chew Valley area, about 11 miles south of the city of Bristol, it marks a lucrative windfall since they will pocket half that sum. The landowner on whose property the coins were found will receive the other half.
I'm curious how this arrangement came about; is it mandated by law? Negotiated on a case-by-case basis? Is 50/50 the "standard" split?
One wonders if they are worth face value given inflation. It would be a fun exercise to figure out their value in pounds sterling and then calculate what that number would be in the present.
That said, my kids and I buried 50 copper coins in a forest in the sierras, perhaps a thousand years from now the aliens visiting our dead planet will find them. :-(
It's have to be deflation for them to be worth more. The only thing here that would be the equivalent would be the value of the silver. I'm _guessing_ that the silver is worth like 1% of the valuation (from looking at the photos). Doesn't seem like it's 2500 kilos of silver (~$1100 per kg at current prices)!
>The only thing here that would be the equivalent would be the value of the silver
Not necessarily. A lot more silver has been mined since the Norman Conquest (for example in the New World, but also in the Old World) which increases its supply. The demand for and utility of silver in general has also changed since then.
Have you done any comparative economics? That is where you take what it "cost" in terms of money for goods or services at a given time and compare that to the cost of the same (or equivalent) goods and services in the present time. Some things like property ownership won't work because the rules changed so much between then and now but meals? Etc? might work.
> perhaps a thousand years from now the aliens visiting our dead planet will find them. :-(
aliens will likely find us the same way we find dinosaurs but probably no one will find us. 1000 years from now things will be very different but i suspect humans will still exist. imo we as a species have very little chance of living 1M years, tho.
For grins and giggles (and because you know, why not?) I took the IPCC model[1] and ran it forward 1000 years given the current trend lines. It isn't "good science" because, well no system responds linearly given that long a time frame and perturbation that great, but it is kind of depressing. Really wish we had a better handle on where the clouds will form, given the higher moisture content, as that swings things between ice age and scorched rock.
[1] I only have one from 2021 so it's not "current" either.
You’d be surprised! It’s all about supply and demand. You can get very common Ancient Greek coins from 300 BC (eg ~2300 years old) for $50 these days. For example:
I understand rarity and all, but it's still strange that there are US pennies worth far more than these coins. It makes sense, but instinctively feels wrong.
I think it's one of those things where people love US pennies because it's what they know and or grew up with (and possibly got them into collecting) - at least in the US. I always got the impression that collecting ancient coins like this was much less mainstream than people collecting the coins of the country that they currently live in.
You used to be able to get uncleaned late Roman bronze coins from the Balkans for about a buck apiece in the early 2000s, so I’d guess they’d be maybe $3-5 each now. Then you get the fun of very carefully removing the encrustations to reveal the coin underneath. You generally ended up with a coin worth about what you paid for it, but it was fun.
I was similarly surprised recently when I found out you can legally purchase many ancient artifacts, like lamps, seals, and burial items. They're by no means cheap, but they aren't priceless treasures either. We've always mass produced stuff, and the museums aren't interested in most of it.
Firstly, the UK is three separate legal jurisdictions, each with their own rules on metal detecting: England/Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland.
Secondly, these rules are not binary legal/illegal, but on a continuum of permissiveness. You always need some kind of permission. England/Wales is more permissive (where most non-protected land can be detected on with the landowner's permission) than the Republic of Ireland (where you need state approval to use a metal detector anywhere).
Yes, obviously it's legal in England, or the coins wouldn't have been found, reported, and ultimately sold, as per the article. It's also legal in Ireland.
There are prohibitions and licensing requirements in both countries for search of heritage sites, national monuments, and other protected sites, and reporting requirements for unintentional "heritage" finds.
I'm sure there are portion of us for whom this treasure trove recalls fond childhood memories of reading Dahl's short story The Mildenhall Treasure, a creative account of real events in 1942 surrounding the controversial finding of a huge cache of 4th century Roman silverware - one of the other great historical hoards dug up in modern Britain.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mildenhall_Treasure
From the article...
>A hoard of Norman-era silver coins unearthed five years ago in southwestern England has become Britain’s most valuable treasure find ever, after it was bought for £4.3 million ($5.6 million) by a local heritage trust.
Different article about the discovery of the Sutton Hoo treasure...
>The exact value of the Sutton Hoo treasure isn't widely known, in part because the items in the treasure have never been up for sale. They were donated to the British Museum by Edith, and have remained there ever since. Typically, the items are described as "priceless," suggesting that their value to the museum and as historical artifacts makes them incredibly valuable.
>Given their historical significance, it's easy to imagine that the value of the items in the treasure would be valued in tens or even hundreds of millions of dollars.
> For the group of seven metal detectorists who discovered the 2,584 silver pennies in the Chew Valley area, about 11 miles south of the city of Bristol, it marks a lucrative windfall since they will pocket half that sum. The landowner on whose property the coins were found will receive the other half.
I'm curious how this arrangement came about; is it mandated by law? Negotiated on a case-by-case basis? Is 50/50 the "standard" split?
Yes, it's enshrined in UK law so that museums get opportunity to buy detectorists' finds. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treasure_Act_1996
One wonders if they are worth face value given inflation. It would be a fun exercise to figure out their value in pounds sterling and then calculate what that number would be in the present.
That said, my kids and I buried 50 copper coins in a forest in the sierras, perhaps a thousand years from now the aliens visiting our dead planet will find them. :-(
It's have to be deflation for them to be worth more. The only thing here that would be the equivalent would be the value of the silver. I'm _guessing_ that the silver is worth like 1% of the valuation (from looking at the photos). Doesn't seem like it's 2500 kilos of silver (~$1100 per kg at current prices)!
>The only thing here that would be the equivalent would be the value of the silver
Not necessarily. A lot more silver has been mined since the Norman Conquest (for example in the New World, but also in the Old World) which increases its supply. The demand for and utility of silver in general has also changed since then.
Have you done any comparative economics? That is where you take what it "cost" in terms of money for goods or services at a given time and compare that to the cost of the same (or equivalent) goods and services in the present time. Some things like property ownership won't work because the rules changed so much between then and now but meals? Etc? might work.
> perhaps a thousand years from now the aliens visiting our dead planet will find them. :-(
aliens will likely find us the same way we find dinosaurs but probably no one will find us. 1000 years from now things will be very different but i suspect humans will still exist. imo we as a species have very little chance of living 1M years, tho.
For grins and giggles (and because you know, why not?) I took the IPCC model[1] and ran it forward 1000 years given the current trend lines. It isn't "good science" because, well no system responds linearly given that long a time frame and perturbation that great, but it is kind of depressing. Really wish we had a better handle on where the clouds will form, given the higher moisture content, as that swings things between ice age and scorched rock.
[1] I only have one from 2021 so it's not "current" either.
Why would our planet be dead in 1000 years? And why did you decide to have children if you believe that?
A thousand year old coin for $1000? That seems rather cheap.
(Professional coin nerd here)
You’d be surprised! It’s all about supply and demand. You can get very common Ancient Greek coins from 300 BC (eg ~2300 years old) for $50 these days. For example:
https://coins.ha.com/itm/ancients/greek/ancients-phoenicia-s...
Of course you can also get rare ones for $thousands or $millions. All about who cares and how many there are.
If I was looking for one of those coins as a gift for a friend who is very into ancient Greece, where would I go?
Bearing in mind that I know nothing about ancient Greece and coins in equal parts.
I understand rarity and all, but it's still strange that there are US pennies worth far more than these coins. It makes sense, but instinctively feels wrong.
I think it's one of those things where people love US pennies because it's what they know and or grew up with (and possibly got them into collecting) - at least in the US. I always got the impression that collecting ancient coins like this was much less mainstream than people collecting the coins of the country that they currently live in.
Will the number of coins in the OP cause prices to drop?
wonder how much that coin is worth now vs how much it was worth in 300 Bc
Prices in Ancient Greece in Athens in the 5th century BC
1 loaf of bread 1 obolos
The standard rate for a prostitute 3 oboloi
6 oboloi are 1 drahma, about 4 drahmai to the shekel. That coin is 1/16 shekel, so about 1.5 loaves
Or half a hooker...
Yes, but which half ?
You used to be able to get uncleaned late Roman bronze coins from the Balkans for about a buck apiece in the early 2000s, so I’d guess they’d be maybe $3-5 each now. Then you get the fun of very carefully removing the encrustations to reveal the coin underneath. You generally ended up with a coin worth about what you paid for it, but it was fun.
I was similarly surprised recently when I found out you can legally purchase many ancient artifacts, like lamps, seals, and burial items. They're by no means cheap, but they aren't priceless treasures either. We've always mass produced stuff, and the museums aren't interested in most of it.
Trash is cheap
So metal detection to search for historical artifacts is legal in UK, illegal in Ireland?
It's more complex than that.
Firstly, the UK is three separate legal jurisdictions, each with their own rules on metal detecting: England/Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland.
Secondly, these rules are not binary legal/illegal, but on a continuum of permissiveness. You always need some kind of permission. England/Wales is more permissive (where most non-protected land can be detected on with the landowner's permission) than the Republic of Ireland (where you need state approval to use a metal detector anywhere).
Some of the details here: https://detecthistory.com/metal-detecting/uk/
Is there any place where metal detection to search for historical artefacts is illegal on private land?
Yes, obviously it's legal in England, or the coins wouldn't have been found, reported, and ultimately sold, as per the article. It's also legal in Ireland.
There are prohibitions and licensing requirements in both countries for search of heritage sites, national monuments, and other protected sites, and reporting requirements for unintentional "heritage" finds.
I don't know the laws personally, but different nations often have different laws.