I am seriously considering creating a dropship company focused exclusively on buying and selling electronic components that are sold for parts and people can assemble them at home, Ikea-style.
I would start with selling 50" and 65" inch "dumb" TVs. Just the panel, a nice enclosure and a board with an IR receiver, TV tuner and HDMI outputs. BYO top box and Soundbar. I wonder how fast it would take to get 10000 orders.
The Framework folks hit an unexpected snag with a similar idea: turns out the US tax on a laptop assembled in Taiwan is much lower than on a box of parts made in Taiwan that you can assemble into a laptop yourself. (Why? Because.) Thus the strange not-really-DIY “DIY edition”.
What is a laptop anyway? Can somebody sell 60 2-in-1 convertible laptops where the top bit comes off and also has an HDMI in port? The computer could be a raspberry pi or something…
Probably. This is a thing with guns, too. In CA, for example, owning an AR15 with certain features is illegal. But separate the upper from the lower, and you no longer have an AR15; now you have parts, none of which are semiautomatic and center-fire on their own. That’s no longer illegal (though if they can prove intent everything changes, of course).
IANAL, but I always found that kind of loophole fascinating.
No, the lower is still legally considered a firearm. It can't fire anything, and it's not a gun in practical purposes, but for purposes of regulation it is still a firearm.
The reason it's probably still legal to have in California is that California bans a lot of largely cosmetic or non-functional items. For example, many states ban threaded barrels which by itself doesn't change any characteristics of the barrel other than the fact that it has a thread on the end of it.
I wanted to find a reputable source to back up this claim but instead I found a link from the atlantic. I did not read it, its behind a paywall and its not peer reviewed. The general concensus is that smart = subsidized by adware
You have this backwards. The consumer "smart" units are subsidized by the monetize of the data they hoover up as you use it. This subsidized price as become accepted as normal price, but they clearly are discounted prices.
Yeah yeah, economy of scale on consumer vs prosumer+ units, but if you really believe that is the sole reason you are sorely mistaken
I recently picked up an 85” Sony TV from Costco on clearance for $1399 (this model originally retailed for $2500, its only a step or two down from their top-of-the-line). I connected it to a hardwired ethernet cable, let it do the software updates, then unplugged it. No need for it to be online if I’m just using it with an AppleTV box anyway. I’d suspect an 85” “business TV” would be at least 4-5x the price.
Funny thing was after the software updates, the next day the TV prompted me to install a firmware update on the remote. First time I’ve ever seen that one.
I think you'll find the price at that volume and without subsidy a bit higher than a lot of people want to pay.
It may be cheaper and even easier to just buy and somehow modify Onn/Hisense into dumb displays, though I've never explored the idea myself to know how feasible it even is.
Just don't connect the "smart" Tv to the internet. It's still a "dumb display" if you don't give it internet access. Don't give it wifi access, don't plug in an ethernet cable.
While its allowed by the standard, its not something that is often used. Certainly the AppleTV that I use does not even offer an option to share its network connection over Ethernet. And I’m not aware of any other box that does.
I would love to buy a TV with a great image quality, a bunch of ports, image tweaking and nothing else. No wifi, no cellular, no internet, no speakers.
Honestly? Doesn’t even need a remote provided CEC works fine with my Apple TV.
As a journalist once said to me, regarding a different topic (local politics in some city), something like: I wasn't surprised that bribes were happening; I was surprised that the bribes were so small.
Similar applies here: incredulous that, in various aspects of the tech industry, customers/users are often being sold out for such small amounts of money.
(Though manufacturing is easier to understand than a lot of software-only businesses, which aren't about cost engineering.)
It sort of makes sense. Like, I’m very bothered by this spyware-industrial system and put a high value on my privacy. But, objectively, I am extremely boring and seeing what I’m looking at is actually worth much less than $15.
It is actually really weird how popular this business model has become (I guess it is a thing because people don’t read the fine print). Invasion of privacy is, I think, extremely asymmetric, so the business model of spying on people is a huge destroyer of value.
Try buying the regular smart ones and disabling the spyware while keeping the rest of the subsidized price. It would be a legal battle about whether you can actually enforce some terms of use that would prohibit it. The rough part is having to cover the warranty when resold which will cost a lot. But probably still cheaper than the dropshipped dumb panels.
Industrial panels make horrible TVs. Even if you use an appropriate panel, there’s more than just designing a sheet metal case.
Based on people suggesting commercial large format displays, apparently some don’t understand this. The market for someone foolish enough to drop $3k on a large screen without Dolby Vision is very small though. People that are absolutely cost conscious will continue to buy the loss leader crap TVs.
The problem in that segment is that it's basically the same disposable, non-repairable tech that's destined to the dumpster in a couple of years. The company is selling the appearance of having a different design philosophy, and it works because the consumer has no way of telling.
So, if you want to do anything more profound in that space, it's going to be hard to compete.
That one you linked has actually quite a lot of features - the 12 presets, auto cooking mode, weight setting, the slightly confusing buttons like "express" and "micro power".
Microwaves that are just time and power setting, cooktops that are just four knobs, ovens that are just mode and heat, maybe a simple timer… I’d buy those too.
See the LG 48 CX OLED television versus the Gigabyte AORUS FO48U OLED monitor. The LG was a jump in quality and performance (4K 120Hz) and many people bought it to use as a computer monitor. But it's smart (cannot disable advertising itself over Bluetooth while on), cannot be woken up over HDMI (requires using the remote control to turn on each day) and it does not have displayport in.
The Aorus is the same panel but not a TV, functions as a monitor should, and I would have bought that instead had I known.
If a product finder like alternativeto.net existed, where you find non-shittified alternatives to a popular appliance, I would use it every time I shop.
Look up "large format display". Its basically a TV sans any smart shit. Used in commercial display applications, dynamic menus in restaurants, info panels etc.
They are mad expensive because presumably they are not subsidised by the shitware that "smart" tvs ship with.
I'm sure the ad revenue is part of it, but the commercial ones are also built for 24/7 operation over the course of years. And I expect another part of the added expense is that they know commercial purchasers aren't as price sensitive.
The entire reason that smart TVs are cheap with ads is because consumers "prefer" that. If (most) people bought expensive TVs with no ads, companies would, you know, sell that.
I’ll keep repeating this but I used to be a TPM for “advance analytics” for a major media agency and we used this data in our reporting for ad reach effectiveness.
From a previous comment of mine:
> … my Insignia TV (best buy store brand) with fire tv built in is basically unusable.
Echoing a previous comment I made too, about “smart tvs” and the “streaming sticks”:
Hey, have you ever thought of why even the $149 Black Friday loss-leader no-name-brand TVs all have Amazon Fire, Roku, or are now "Smart" in some way? Certainly isn't because they need to incentivise you to connect it to the internet so it acts as a Nielsen-esq measurement device of all media you view on the screen via digital fingerprints that exist in all commercial media and advertisements. [1][2]
Why the fuck would anyone buy a "smart monitor" that is hooked up to a computer? Are they too incompetent to directly watch Netflix/Prime/etc on the computer? What is LG's target audience here?
I'm guessing snwy_me got the monitor from someone else and forgot to factory reset it and disable WiFi.
It’s the only way to get a good hidpi panel in the 5K space without breaking the bank. They also have DEEP integration with the Samsung ecosystem like dex integration.
LG has been getting into this market; their target market appears to be folks that want to have a miniature tv at their desk in small (studio) apartments to watch Netflix, etc on without fiddling with a pc. Which makes sense: in Korea and a lot of other places now, 200sqft apartments are becoming more common and the affordable option without splitting with others.
I bought something like this from Samsung. Honestly, was an oversight that I only started regretting when I learned that the controls to change the input source suck in a major way (not possible to switch source via a provided remote, source-switching buttons are very inconveniently placed at the bottom of the monitor and sometimes enter full settings instead of the source-switch menu). Lesson learned the hard way. And yeah, I keep the wifi disabled on that thing, except when occasionally checking for updates in the hopes that they fixed that shit via a software update.
Yeah, I'm trying to see what the problem is here. Seems like just a reason to gripe. What difference does any of this makes if the monitor itself is only fed a video signal (i.e. don't connect its wifi). Does the monitor fail to operate without its WiFi connection or something?
Aargghh, a prompt similar to this is going to make me an extremist that'll wage j**d on IT companies!
Google Photos wants you to turn on backups so you blow through your 15GB quota and buy storage from them, so once in a while when I open the app it screams "Back up is not turned on! You risk losing your photos!" (ok maybe not that hysterically).
Then the "Back up photos" slider is active, and I just have to hit "Continue". I'd have to slide it to off, and the button changes to "Continue without backup" and I have to hit it.
It's freaking disgusting that software companies now change your settings (ok, thankfully it still asks for your confirmation) and nag you about it every few weeks.
BTW Google, I have a Google Pixel 1 phone that has lifetime unlimited photos backup, and I intend on abusing that functionality by using automated transfers between my daily phone -> my NAS -> Pixel 1 -> your servers until you fuck me over and delete my account.
For what it’s worth, this is a Smart TV (ie, a streaming box) that happens to also be monitor sized. I have no idea why anyone would buy one of these for primary use as a computer monitor, and the marketing and messaging is clear and up-front that these are streaming devices running an Internet connected OS.
Why streaming devices need to be so ad-infested is a different interesting topic, but IMO this “my monitor has an EULA” thing is just engagement bait.
Agree - this twitterbait is purposely omitting relevant details that this is NOT a traditional external display in any sense of the word. I mean the category of displays on LG's website is labelled "Smart Monitors with webOS" - which should be a clue right there.
That Samsung/LG/etc. are sulfurous pits of spyware is a completely different and well understood problem (but coincidentally too pedestrian to garner the desired rage induced upvotes).
And if you gaze for long into an LG™ liquid-crystal display monitor, the LG™ liquid-crystal display monitor asks your permission to gaze also into you.
Hm. Will Linux drivers permit this thing to talk to the Internet? And if it can't reach the mothership, will it still work as a monitor?
This has exploit potential. If a properly crafted ad can successful take over a monitor, the attacker now owns a USB-C device with an Internet connection. From there, it can make the device pretend to be some other USB device, such as a keyboard, mouse, and USB storage. From that point, they can do almost anything.
A few manufacturers are now shipping monitors with the same OS as their smart TVs, so they can stream Netflix and stuff standalone. OP has an LG one, and I know Samsung are also doing it on some of their newer models. Thankfully there's still plenty of dumb monitors on the market for now, including most LGs and Samsungs.
Why does my monitor need to do that? My OS, the Intel Management Engine, my application, the website I'm using, my internet provider, my modem's hardware stack, and the several networked microphones in my home are already doing it.
Consider the case where there's a quiet observer looking at the screen alongside you. The monitor also needs to identify them so that it can ensure that you're not an accessory to thoughtcrime by letting them look at your screen.
I don't think that really caught on that much. Film studios care about it, but TV manufacturers don't really.
This is for advertising plain and simple (and probably selling user data to some extent). That's direct income for the manufacturers so they care about it a lot.
But, why doesn't the ethernet just connect to the device directly? Have they really taken so many ports away from us that the only way to connect to ethernet is to daisy chain through a fucking smart monitor?
Single cable docking. You plug your laptop into the monitor via USBC and it charges your laptop, provides it a Ethernet connection and drives the monitor display.
Not defending the sickening concept of a “spy” monitor.
But my Dell P2423DE monitor has a USB-C “dock” built into it so that I plug a single cable into my laptop which connects it to 2x 1440p monitors, power, mouse, headset receiver, keyboard and a wired ethernet connection.
Quite frankly, it’s awesomely convenient.
It’s totally legitimate to have a network port on a monitor.
I've never heard of this. What specific devices, if you don't mind me asking?
I had no idea a Thunderbolt hub could serve as a parallel Ethernet hub, nor that there were devices that could or would want to take advantage of this.
The manufacturer could have added connectivity via mobile baseband and a SIM card, just for the privilege of harvesting your viewing habits and passwords.
Actually, it's Sony's patent 8,246,454 which has that "interactive networked video game" feature (https://patents.google.com/patent/US8246454B2/en), and AFAIK there isn't a "drink verification can"-style patent yet.
Not sure if it's this one in question, or even from a real patent at all, but I think this is what GP was referencing; it made the rounds a few years back.
Unfortunately, DisplayPort and HDMI specifications are kept private unless you're a paying member. I've successfully implemented DisplayPort 1.2 in an FPGA from specification documents I found, but I could never find the specification for anything better.
I have started preparing myself mentally for a future where I give up on most of modern technology in the home and just go back to paper books/vinyls/etc.
Related: my mac bugs the hell out of me to accept new cloud Eula junk after os upgrade ... it's constantly popping up every 5 mins or so and can interrupt shutdown. Out stubbornness I've ignored for 6months running.
We updated security policy at our company to prohibit use of monitors that aren’t specifically authorized.
One of our customers detected a risk in an audit - it hadn’t occurred to anyone. Now we log display connections and customer facing folks can be terminated for violating the rules.
I wonder what would happen if Amazon introduced a boycott feature. It could be a list of active boycotts next to the buy button on a product page. Customers can choose to join one of the boycotts instead of clicking the buy button, and then get redirected to a list of alternatives.
It won't ever happen obviously, but I wonder if it would solve these types of problems? Consumers collectively boycotting something is the most powerful way to fight things like this, but I can't think of a successful example of that in recent times. Even "viral" boycotts on social media platforms are likely to get limited reach due to algorithm fuckery. Or is it that nobody but us tech nerds actually cares about stuff like this, and even a blatant in-your-face boycott feature on Amazon wouldn't make a difference?
> I wonder what would happen if Amazon introduced a boycott feature. It could be a list of active boycotts next to the buy button on a product page
A feature that simultaneously discourages sales, encourages retailers to pull products from the platform, and heavily incentivizes abuse from competitors who would benefit from convincing customers to boycott their competitors products? For some reason I don’t imagine Amazon product managers are going to like this idea.
Boycotts are wishful thinking in the modern era of online shopping. The Venn diagram of people who would actively boycott a product like this and the people who would seek it out on Amazon has no overlap. These products are targeted at people who do purchasing for their office or who click the buy button without taking 1 minute to glance at reviews. The people who care enough to actively boycott have already read reviews of a product before they seek it out for purchase.
If Amazon were competing to win customers, they might do something like this to increase trust in the quality of the products on their store. Of course, that's not Amazon. The only significant threats to Amazon today are anti-trust regulators.
I don't think it's competitive, it's suicidal. No rational storefront would ever tell you all the terrible things about the products they stock, no matter how large or small they are. It's insulting to the suppliers and more importantly, stops people from impulse-buying big-ticket products.
You might argue that showing these "boycotts" would stop people from returning these products, but it would also curtail a whole lot of buyers that would consider it "good enough". Amazon deserves their fair shake by the FTC but if you think this is the reason then you've got pretty bizarre expectations.
Agreed, sadly comment OP is in dreamland about why an E-commerce company would ever even consider doing anything to stop people from buying things, regardless of quality or any other external factor.
This would be a fantastic chrome extension because Amazon would never do this. It would be great to vote on the reasons why to boycott, allowing the most egregious reasons at the very top.
I'm on the fence regarding a "likely boycott" for Ooni pizza ovens, specifically the Karu 16 dual fuel. There are many videos about defective or improperly installed thermocouples. Ooni has some really helpful FAQ guides for fixing it on your own, but I was amazed at how many videos exist about this problem for an $800 pizza oven.
Not buying alone sounds a pretty powerful boycott thing.
Unluckily, so many care less than nothing, buying whatever is the cheapest and loudest in praising itself with the biggest lies or misdirection. There is a huge and successful market for these kind of customers. Actually it overwhelms the small group of conscious costumers. So manufacturers are making less and less 'honest' products.
My TV did this. The worst part was that it disappeared so quickly I didn't have time to get the remote and acknowledge it. There did not appear to be any way in the settings to go and handle it manually. I just had to wait and get lucky.
A particularly annoying aspect of monitor makers blurring the distinction between monitors and TVs that I hit with my Samsung S9 5K is that my Samsung TV remote can turn the monitor on/off and the monitor remote can turn the TV on/off.
Did it not occur to Samsung that people might have their computer in the same room as their television?
I don't know, I am still processing the 'remote for a monitor' idea. Sounds like the 'remote for a car stereo' kind of thing. Is this for people with short arms perhaps?
Yeah this is something I feel like doesn't get talked about enough. I have a raspberry PI that acts as my streaming device connected to my Samsung "Smart" TV and since Samsung can't get on the WIFI it's effectively just a display terminal.
I am outraged by the lack of outrage over this enshittified dystopia.
I would like to think myself better than that but things have really escalated to a point I really wish death and illness upon the advertiser leeches that started and continuously fueled the enshittification train till the point that we're at now.
I don’t know why everyone here thinks it is unconscionable for a hardware vendor to block user access to content with a pop up, when this is standard practice in the entire software industry.[1][2]
I’ve had Microsoft Teams interrupt my presentation to a CEO to force me to click through some stupid dialog that a self-important developer put in there at the direction of an an even more self-absorbed manager.
“STOP TALKING NOW! You are nothing! Only our imagined legal risks matter! Click here to accept. DO THIS NOW.”
It didn’t exactly say that, but it may as well have. That was the meaning.
I would love to create a simple, searchable directory of consumer appliances, software and services that list all the ways you are _objectively_ fucked over as a consumer (I.e. whether something sells your data, requires always-on internet connectivity, requires additional subscriptions to unlock full functionality, etc..)
Wow the Q&A's answers seem AI generated... Everything about these 'smart' monitors feels quite 'fabricated' to me. I feel next time I shop for a monitor I will skip LG.
A lot of vehicles also show this on the nav screen every time you start the car, and many websites also display similar popups when you visit. It's a disgusting practice but it certainly isn't new.
BTW if you want a TV that doesn't have any of these smart features you can get one of those commercial displays used in malls, train stations, and such. They're expensive though.
Related: my mac bugs the hell out of me to accept new cloud Eula junk after os upgrade ... it's constantly popping up every 5 mins or so and can interrupt shutdown. Out stubbornness I've ignored for 6 months running.
Nice, I've got the same (default colorway)! Such a good keyboard! I built/bought many keyboards and finally got tired of the search and decided to finally try the fabled Topre... so good <3
The idea of TVs doing this smells of urban legend to me, but a friend bought a new car recently, and he can connect to it from his phone (obviously over the cloud), he was wondering how it works because he didn't have to subscribe to anyhing, but yeah it has cellular connectivity paid for by the car manufacturer...
Great, make sure you max out that bandwidth with random garbage (preferably to the same endpoints that the telemetry goes to) to prevent your owned devices from exfiltrating your life.
I wonder if they bought these on purpose, or if the monitors were provided by their employer. That looks like an office.
It's hard to sympathize with someone buying one of these in 2024 and then being outraged that it wants to do ad tracking. 'Smart' monitors are so easy to avoid right now, they are all clearly marketed as such and it's still the case that premium 'dumb' monitors are available in every category.
I am seriously considering creating a dropship company focused exclusively on buying and selling electronic components that are sold for parts and people can assemble them at home, Ikea-style.
I would start with selling 50" and 65" inch "dumb" TVs. Just the panel, a nice enclosure and a board with an IR receiver, TV tuner and HDMI outputs. BYO top box and Soundbar. I wonder how fast it would take to get 10000 orders.
The Framework folks hit an unexpected snag with a similar idea: turns out the US tax on a laptop assembled in Taiwan is much lower than on a box of parts made in Taiwan that you can assemble into a laptop yourself. (Why? Because.) Thus the strange not-really-DIY “DIY edition”.
What is a laptop anyway? Can somebody sell 60 2-in-1 convertible laptops where the top bit comes off and also has an HDMI in port? The computer could be a raspberry pi or something…
Probably. This is a thing with guns, too. In CA, for example, owning an AR15 with certain features is illegal. But separate the upper from the lower, and you no longer have an AR15; now you have parts, none of which are semiautomatic and center-fire on their own. That’s no longer illegal (though if they can prove intent everything changes, of course).
IANAL, but I always found that kind of loophole fascinating.
No, the lower is still legally considered a firearm. It can't fire anything, and it's not a gun in practical purposes, but for purposes of regulation it is still a firearm.
The reason it's probably still legal to have in California is that California bans a lot of largely cosmetic or non-functional items. For example, many states ban threaded barrels which by itself doesn't change any characteristics of the barrel other than the fact that it has a thread on the end of it.
You can search NewEgg or Amazon for "Business TV" or "Commercial TV" and they will almost all be "dumb" TVs. They are readily available.
Readily available at a good premium.
You can sometimes get a great deal on these during liquidation though.
Nope, you're getting the ad-infested TVs for a good discount.
Well, they're at a discount if your privacy has no value.
No, they're at a discount period. They're sold for less money.
You have to decide what's more valuable to you - an extra chunk of money or the privacy which is endangered with the cheaper option.
I really doubt manufacturer lose money on smart tv sales.
I wanted to find a reputable source to back up this claim but instead I found a link from the atlantic. I did not read it, its behind a paywall and its not peer reviewed. The general concensus is that smart = subsidized by adware
https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2023/01/smart...
> Readily available at a good premium.
You have this backwards. The consumer "smart" units are subsidized by the monetize of the data they hoover up as you use it. This subsidized price as become accepted as normal price, but they clearly are discounted prices.
Yeah yeah, economy of scale on consumer vs prosumer+ units, but if you really believe that is the sole reason you are sorely mistaken
I recently picked up an 85” Sony TV from Costco on clearance for $1399 (this model originally retailed for $2500, its only a step or two down from their top-of-the-line). I connected it to a hardwired ethernet cable, let it do the software updates, then unplugged it. No need for it to be online if I’m just using it with an AppleTV box anyway. I’d suspect an 85” “business TV” would be at least 4-5x the price.
Funny thing was after the software updates, the next day the TV prompted me to install a firmware update on the remote. First time I’ve ever seen that one.
I think you'll find the price at that volume and without subsidy a bit higher than a lot of people want to pay.
It may be cheaper and even easier to just buy and somehow modify Onn/Hisense into dumb displays, though I've never explored the idea myself to know how feasible it even is.
Honestly when you see what a modern TV has inside and how it is assembled you realize that there’s not much “subsidy”.
Just don't connect the "smart" Tv to the internet. It's still a "dumb display" if you don't give it internet access. Don't give it wifi access, don't plug in an ethernet cable.
I think the hdmi standard allows for Ethernet over hdmi. That’s a sneaky way in for your tv
While its allowed by the standard, its not something that is often used. Certainly the AppleTV that I use does not even offer an option to share its network connection over Ethernet. And I’m not aware of any other box that does.
I would love to buy a TV with a great image quality, a bunch of ports, image tweaking and nothing else. No wifi, no cellular, no internet, no speakers.
Honestly? Doesn’t even need a remote provided CEC works fine with my Apple TV.
How would you tweak the image via CEC over the Apple TV?
Potentiometers on the side. (I’m only half joking)
please do. but it seems it would be more expensive to produce a tv with less features: https://www.tomsguide.com/features/dumb-tvs-heres-why-you-ca...
"Google pays between $12 and $15 per unit to a manufacturer like TCL or Hisense per TV that uses Google TV."
I'd be willing to pay a $15 premium for a TV that is built to do what I want, not what an advertiser wants.
As a journalist once said to me, regarding a different topic (local politics in some city), something like: I wasn't surprised that bribes were happening; I was surprised that the bribes were so small.
Similar applies here: incredulous that, in various aspects of the tech industry, customers/users are often being sold out for such small amounts of money.
(Though manufacturing is easier to understand than a lot of software-only businesses, which aren't about cost engineering.)
It sort of makes sense. Like, I’m very bothered by this spyware-industrial system and put a high value on my privacy. But, objectively, I am extremely boring and seeing what I’m looking at is actually worth much less than $15.
It is actually really weird how popular this business model has become (I guess it is a thing because people don’t read the fine print). Invasion of privacy is, I think, extremely asymmetric, so the business model of spying on people is a huge destroyer of value.
Try buying the regular smart ones and disabling the spyware while keeping the rest of the subsidized price. It would be a legal battle about whether you can actually enforce some terms of use that would prohibit it. The rough part is having to cover the warranty when resold which will cost a lot. But probably still cheaper than the dropshipped dumb panels.
IR receiver is optional IMO. Most people would plug an Android TV box or media PC into it anyhow, which will handle volume control and power via HDMI.
i think somebody is already doing it - you may combine forces. Check this thread, about year ago:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35484594
also, check this one from yesterday:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41855403
Wouldn’t hold my breath.
The relevant subthread really is this:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35487062
Industrial panels make horrible TVs. Even if you use an appropriate panel, there’s more than just designing a sheet metal case.
Based on people suggesting commercial large format displays, apparently some don’t understand this. The market for someone foolish enough to drop $3k on a large screen without Dolby Vision is very small though. People that are absolutely cost conscious will continue to buy the loss leader crap TVs.
I’ve also thought about this in quite some depth. I think people would be willing to pay a premium for simple, quality electronics.
I also think there could be a good opportunity to expand this to kitchen appliances too. Premium quality but really dumb. I would be a loyal customer
With kitchen appliances, it's already a thing. For example, there's a "retro" brand that sells microwaves with a timer knob:
https://www.amazon.com/Nostalgia-NRMO7YW6A-Countertop-Microw...
The problem in that segment is that it's basically the same disposable, non-repairable tech that's destined to the dumpster in a couple of years. The company is selling the appearance of having a different design philosophy, and it works because the consumer has no way of telling.
So, if you want to do anything more profound in that space, it's going to be hard to compete.
I think you make a good point in general, but the Ikea TILLREDA microwave might be a better example of cheap and simple: https://www.ikea.com/ie/en/p/tillreda-microwave-oven-white-6...
That one you linked has actually quite a lot of features - the 12 presets, auto cooking mode, weight setting, the slightly confusing buttons like "express" and "micro power".
Microwaves that are just time and power setting, cooktops that are just four knobs, ovens that are just mode and heat, maybe a simple timer… I’d buy those too.
How about BYO tuner while you're at it?
See the LG 48 CX OLED television versus the Gigabyte AORUS FO48U OLED monitor. The LG was a jump in quality and performance (4K 120Hz) and many people bought it to use as a computer monitor. But it's smart (cannot disable advertising itself over Bluetooth while on), cannot be woken up over HDMI (requires using the remote control to turn on each day) and it does not have displayport in.
The Aorus is the same panel but not a TV, functions as a monitor should, and I would have bought that instead had I known.
If a product finder like alternativeto.net existed, where you find non-shittified alternatives to a popular appliance, I would use it every time I shop.
Drop me a line if you ever decide to start. Be glad to help.
I would absolutely love something like that.
Is it even possible to just buy panels for normal consumers?
Look up "large format display". Its basically a TV sans any smart shit. Used in commercial display applications, dynamic menus in restaurants, info panels etc.
They are mad expensive because presumably they are not subsidised by the shitware that "smart" tvs ship with.
I'm sure the ad revenue is part of it, but the commercial ones are also built for 24/7 operation over the course of years. And I expect another part of the added expense is that they know commercial purchasers aren't as price sensitive.
The entire reason that smart TVs are cheap with ads is because consumers "prefer" that. If (most) people bought expensive TVs with no ads, companies would, you know, sell that.
Sign me up
Customer here!
I’ll keep repeating this but I used to be a TPM for “advance analytics” for a major media agency and we used this data in our reporting for ad reach effectiveness.
From a previous comment of mine:
> … my Insignia TV (best buy store brand) with fire tv built in is basically unusable. Echoing a previous comment I made too, about “smart tvs” and the “streaming sticks”: Hey, have you ever thought of why even the $149 Black Friday loss-leader no-name-brand TVs all have Amazon Fire, Roku, or are now "Smart" in some way? Certainly isn't because they need to incentivise you to connect it to the internet so it acts as a Nielsen-esq measurement device of all media you view on the screen via digital fingerprints that exist in all commercial media and advertisements. [1][2]
[1] https://www.ispot.tv/
[2] https://www.samba.tv/
It appears to be this line of Smart Monitors: https://www.lg.com/us/smart-monitors
Why the fuck would anyone buy a "smart monitor" that is hooked up to a computer? Are they too incompetent to directly watch Netflix/Prime/etc on the computer? What is LG's target audience here?
I'm guessing snwy_me got the monitor from someone else and forgot to factory reset it and disable WiFi.
My partner has the Samsung equivalent of these.
It’s the only way to get a good hidpi panel in the 5K space without breaking the bank. They also have DEEP integration with the Samsung ecosystem like dex integration.
LG has been getting into this market; their target market appears to be folks that want to have a miniature tv at their desk in small (studio) apartments to watch Netflix, etc on without fiddling with a pc. Which makes sense: in Korea and a lot of other places now, 200sqft apartments are becoming more common and the affordable option without splitting with others.
I bought something like this from Samsung. Honestly, was an oversight that I only started regretting when I learned that the controls to change the input source suck in a major way (not possible to switch source via a provided remote, source-switching buttons are very inconveniently placed at the bottom of the monitor and sometimes enter full settings instead of the source-switch menu). Lesson learned the hard way. And yeah, I keep the wifi disabled on that thing, except when occasionally checking for updates in the hopes that they fixed that shit via a software update.
Yeah, I'm trying to see what the problem is here. Seems like just a reason to gripe. What difference does any of this makes if the monitor itself is only fed a video signal (i.e. don't connect its wifi). Does the monitor fail to operate without its WiFi connection or something?
By definition, another "future I wanted" can only occur "later" than now, so those two options kinda make sense. :P
Aargghh, a prompt similar to this is going to make me an extremist that'll wage j**d on IT companies!
Google Photos wants you to turn on backups so you blow through your 15GB quota and buy storage from them, so once in a while when I open the app it screams "Back up is not turned on! You risk losing your photos!" (ok maybe not that hysterically).
Then the "Back up photos" slider is active, and I just have to hit "Continue". I'd have to slide it to off, and the button changes to "Continue without backup" and I have to hit it.
It's freaking disgusting that software companies now change your settings (ok, thankfully it still asks for your confirmation) and nag you about it every few weeks.
BTW Google, I have a Google Pixel 1 phone that has lifetime unlimited photos backup, and I intend on abusing that functionality by using automated transfers between my daily phone -> my NAS -> Pixel 1 -> your servers until you fuck me over and delete my account.
Please scroll to the bottom and confirm you have read the entire FUTURE EULA before continuing.
(Later) --> Remind me (Tomorrow) (3 days Later)
I want that T-Shirt.
Your LG monitor likely just read that comment and will bill you for the T-shirt immediately.
For what it’s worth, this is a Smart TV (ie, a streaming box) that happens to also be monitor sized. I have no idea why anyone would buy one of these for primary use as a computer monitor, and the marketing and messaging is clear and up-front that these are streaming devices running an Internet connected OS.
Why streaming devices need to be so ad-infested is a different interesting topic, but IMO this “my monitor has an EULA” thing is just engagement bait.
Agree - this twitterbait is purposely omitting relevant details that this is NOT a traditional external display in any sense of the word. I mean the category of displays on LG's website is labelled "Smart Monitors with webOS" - which should be a clue right there.
That Samsung/LG/etc. are sulfurous pits of spyware is a completely different and well understood problem (but coincidentally too pedestrian to garner the desired rage induced upvotes).
LG has a page dedicated to "LG SmartMonitors", and the photo shows a desk with mouse and keyboard, no mention of TV or Smart TV
And if you gaze for long into an LG™ liquid-crystal display monitor, the LG™ liquid-crystal display monitor asks your permission to gaze also into you.
Holy. This is so dire. I like how "smart" is always a euphemism for "shitty" when it's the prefix of a technology product.
Jury's still out on the Smartphone with a good number of pros/cons.
I'd bet that many who are enraged by this story, have already accepted numerous such agreements in the software/sites they use.
Is this a side effect of allowing monitors to use USB-C? Is there some driver via WHQL that allows the monitor to connect to the internet???
This seems to me like a potential security issue.
Hm. Will Linux drivers permit this thing to talk to the Internet? And if it can't reach the mothership, will it still work as a monitor?
This has exploit potential. If a properly crafted ad can successful take over a monitor, the attacker now owns a USB-C device with an Internet connection. From there, it can make the device pretend to be some other USB device, such as a keyboard, mouse, and USB storage. From that point, they can do almost anything.
That was my question as well. What is the user benefit of the monitor having a network connection?
A few manufacturers are now shipping monitors with the same OS as their smart TVs, so they can stream Netflix and stuff standalone. OP has an LG one, and I know Samsung are also doing it on some of their newer models. Thankfully there's still plenty of dumb monitors on the market for now, including most LGs and Samsungs.
Once you've identified the viewer you can see if they have a license for that they're viewing and report the thoughtcrime if not.
Why does my monitor need to do that? My OS, the Intel Management Engine, my application, the website I'm using, my internet provider, my modem's hardware stack, and the several networked microphones in my home are already doing it.
Consider the case where there's a quiet observer looking at the screen alongside you. The monitor also needs to identify them so that it can ensure that you're not an accessory to thoughtcrime by letting them look at your screen.
Your monitor manufacturer isn't on the list and also wants a piece of that fresh brain meat
Until we could tap into your optical nerve or directly into your brain, the monitor is the closest we could get.
I don't think that really caught on that much. Film studios care about it, but TV manufacturers don't really.
This is for advertising plain and simple (and probably selling user data to some extent). That's direct income for the manufacturers so they care about it a lot.
special offers!
I use my monitor's network connection so devices connected to it via thunderbolt also have ethernet.
But, why doesn't the ethernet just connect to the device directly? Have they really taken so many ports away from us that the only way to connect to ethernet is to daisy chain through a fucking smart monitor?
Single cable docking. You plug your laptop into the monitor via USBC and it charges your laptop, provides it a Ethernet connection and drives the monitor display.
It's neat, but not this dystopian neat.
Not defending the sickening concept of a “spy” monitor.
But my Dell P2423DE monitor has a USB-C “dock” built into it so that I plug a single cable into my laptop which connects it to 2x 1440p monitors, power, mouse, headset receiver, keyboard and a wired ethernet connection.
Quite frankly, it’s awesomely convenient.
It’s totally legitimate to have a network port on a monitor.
That does not sound to me like a network port on a monitor. That sounds like a monitor / docking station combination.
I've never heard of this. What specific devices, if you don't mind me asking?
I had no idea a Thunderbolt hub could serve as a parallel Ethernet hub, nor that there were devices that could or would want to take advantage of this.
The manufacturer could have added connectivity via mobile baseband and a SIM card, just for the privilege of harvesting your viewing habits and passwords.
I'd love to see a lawsuit regarding them knowingly shipping a monitor with this defect.
When the EULA is blocking the content, the monitor isn't working as advertised. And they willingly shipped it like that.
I just want a somewhat trustworthy group to create a 'dumb' certification.
Coming soon to monitors with integrated webcams: please drink verification can to continue working!
Sadly they've only given us Mountain Dew flavored Doritos but not the other way around yet...
Doesn't microsoft have that patented?
I know you guys are joking, but there use to be a Microsoft energy drink, that was only available to employees.
https://www.google.com/search?q=Microsoft+employee+Talking+R...
The blue one actually tasted really good. Was available on campus for several years in nearly every building. :)
Actually, it's Sony's patent 8,246,454 which has that "interactive networked video game" feature (https://patents.google.com/patent/US8246454B2/en), and AFAIK there isn't a "drink verification can"-style patent yet.
Not sure if it's this one in question, or even from a real patent at all, but I think this is what GP was referencing; it made the rounds a few years back.
https://i.redd.it/wb7lhfporqj91.png (sorry for reddit pic link, poked around a bit and this was the one I could find)
This is the first time I ever thought we need an open source monitor hardware
Unfortunately, DisplayPort and HDMI specifications are kept private unless you're a paying member. I've successfully implemented DisplayPort 1.2 in an FPGA from specification documents I found, but I could never find the specification for anything better.
I thought only HDMI is problematic, and DP is quite open?
Do you have anything online documenting how you did this? That’s actually really cool
I feel like we need open source hardware cellphones too, and everything else.
Fair point
I have started preparing myself mentally for a future where I give up on most of modern technology in the home and just go back to paper books/vinyls/etc.
Same. My newest computer is from 2015... That said, at least one vendor is making computers I'm willing to purchase: https://www.crowdsupply.com/mnt/mnt-reform-next
I guess it could become so difficult that it could be easier to RE the hardware and remove all the spying stuff
Related: my mac bugs the hell out of me to accept new cloud Eula junk after os upgrade ... it's constantly popping up every 5 mins or so and can interrupt shutdown. Out stubbornness I've ignored for 6months running.
We updated security policy at our company to prohibit use of monitors that aren’t specifically authorized.
One of our customers detected a risk in an audit - it hadn’t occurred to anyone. Now we log display connections and customer facing folks can be terminated for violating the rules.
I wonder what would happen if Amazon introduced a boycott feature. It could be a list of active boycotts next to the buy button on a product page. Customers can choose to join one of the boycotts instead of clicking the buy button, and then get redirected to a list of alternatives.
It won't ever happen obviously, but I wonder if it would solve these types of problems? Consumers collectively boycotting something is the most powerful way to fight things like this, but I can't think of a successful example of that in recent times. Even "viral" boycotts on social media platforms are likely to get limited reach due to algorithm fuckery. Or is it that nobody but us tech nerds actually cares about stuff like this, and even a blatant in-your-face boycott feature on Amazon wouldn't make a difference?
> I wonder what would happen if Amazon introduced a boycott feature. It could be a list of active boycotts next to the buy button on a product page
A feature that simultaneously discourages sales, encourages retailers to pull products from the platform, and heavily incentivizes abuse from competitors who would benefit from convincing customers to boycott their competitors products? For some reason I don’t imagine Amazon product managers are going to like this idea.
Boycotts are wishful thinking in the modern era of online shopping. The Venn diagram of people who would actively boycott a product like this and the people who would seek it out on Amazon has no overlap. These products are targeted at people who do purchasing for their office or who click the buy button without taking 1 minute to glance at reviews. The people who care enough to actively boycott have already read reviews of a product before they seek it out for purchase.
If Amazon were competing to win customers, they might do something like this to increase trust in the quality of the products on their store. Of course, that's not Amazon. The only significant threats to Amazon today are anti-trust regulators.
I don't think it's competitive, it's suicidal. No rational storefront would ever tell you all the terrible things about the products they stock, no matter how large or small they are. It's insulting to the suppliers and more importantly, stops people from impulse-buying big-ticket products.
You might argue that showing these "boycotts" would stop people from returning these products, but it would also curtail a whole lot of buyers that would consider it "good enough". Amazon deserves their fair shake by the FTC but if you think this is the reason then you've got pretty bizarre expectations.
Agreed, sadly comment OP is in dreamland about why an E-commerce company would ever even consider doing anything to stop people from buying things, regardless of quality or any other external factor.
This would be a fantastic chrome extension because Amazon would never do this. It would be great to vote on the reasons why to boycott, allowing the most egregious reasons at the very top.
I'm on the fence regarding a "likely boycott" for Ooni pizza ovens, specifically the Karu 16 dual fuel. There are many videos about defective or improperly installed thermocouples. Ooni has some really helpful FAQ guides for fixing it on your own, but I was amazed at how many videos exist about this problem for an $800 pizza oven.
Hah, like the ad-block extensions you'll be able to download boycott-lists.
But as Basil Fawlty said... don't mention the war!
Not buying alone sounds a pretty powerful boycott thing.
Unluckily, so many care less than nothing, buying whatever is the cheapest and loudest in praising itself with the biggest lies or misdirection. There is a huge and successful market for these kind of customers. Actually it overwhelms the small group of conscious costumers. So manufacturers are making less and less 'honest' products.
It would probably be possible as a third party extension. See Fakespot extension for instance.
My TV did this. The worst part was that it disappeared so quickly I didn't have time to get the remote and acknowledge it. There did not appear to be any way in the settings to go and handle it manually. I just had to wait and get lucky.
A particularly annoying aspect of monitor makers blurring the distinction between monitors and TVs that I hit with my Samsung S9 5K is that my Samsung TV remote can turn the monitor on/off and the monitor remote can turn the TV on/off.
Did it not occur to Samsung that people might have their computer in the same room as their television?
I don't know, I am still processing the 'remote for a monitor' idea. Sounds like the 'remote for a car stereo' kind of thing. Is this for people with short arms perhaps?
Any TV that doesn't have your WiFi password is a dumb TV. No TV I've owned to dated has required network connectivity to work.
Yeah this is something I feel like doesn't get talked about enough. I have a raspberry PI that acts as my streaming device connected to my Samsung "Smart" TV and since Samsung can't get on the WIFI it's effectively just a display terminal.
I am outraged by the lack of outrage over this enshittified dystopia. I would like to think myself better than that but things have really escalated to a point I really wish death and illness upon the advertiser leeches that started and continuously fueled the enshittification train till the point that we're at now.
Have your pet accept the EULA :)
I don’t know why everyone here thinks it is unconscionable for a hardware vendor to block user access to content with a pop up, when this is standard practice in the entire software industry.[1][2]
I’ve had Microsoft Teams interrupt my presentation to a CEO to force me to click through some stupid dialog that a self-important developer put in there at the direction of an an even more self-absorbed manager.
“STOP TALKING NOW! You are nothing! Only our imagined legal risks matter! Click here to accept. DO THIS NOW.”
It didn’t exactly say that, but it may as well have. That was the meaning.
[1] https://how-i-experience-web-today.com/
[2] Command line tools used in unattended workflows will hang, waiting for EULA acceptance from a human who isn’t there: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/5151034/psexec-gets-stuc...
Many of the responses to the post on X don't seem to realize that the _monitor_ is putting up this message, and they're blaming "windows"
I would love to create a simple, searchable directory of consumer appliances, software and services that list all the ways you are _objectively_ fucked over as a consumer (I.e. whether something sells your data, requires always-on internet connectivity, requires additional subscriptions to unlock full functionality, etc..)
This is one from a line of LG monitors that state they come with webOS
https://www.lg.com/us/smart-monitors
https://www.lg.com/us/monitors/lg-32sq730s-w-smart-monitor
Wow the Q&A's answers seem AI generated... Everything about these 'smart' monitors feels quite 'fabricated' to me. I feel next time I shop for a monitor I will skip LG.
A lot of vehicles also show this on the nav screen every time you start the car, and many websites also display similar popups when you visit. It's a disgusting practice but it certainly isn't new.
BTW if you want a TV that doesn't have any of these smart features you can get one of those commercial displays used in malls, train stations, and such. They're expensive though.
Related: my mac bugs the hell out of me to accept new cloud Eula junk after os upgrade ... it's constantly popping up every 5 mins or so and can interrupt shutdown. Out stubbornness I've ignored for 6 months running.
DRINK VERIFICATION CAN
For those as out of the loop as myself, apparently a 12 year old 4chan greentext meme:
<https://imgur.com/please-drink-verification-can-dgGvgKF>
mountain dew is for me and you
in a life-imitates-art twist, Xbox did in fact release an Xbox minifridge that was mountain dew colors many years after this greentext
What keyboard is that and where do I get one?
Topre Realforce R2, but that colorway was a limited edition and it's already gone.
https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/products/topre-realforce-r2-...
Nice, I've got the same (default colorway)! Such a good keyboard! I built/bought many keyboards and finally got tired of the search and decided to finally try the fabled Topre... so good <3
HN will really say anything except "We should regulate common-sense bad behavior" huh?
Better get a firewall for you monitor. Maybe a usb-c plug that filters non visual traffic? /s
A prepaid cellular modem is installed to transmit essential telemetry.
The idea of TVs doing this smells of urban legend to me, but a friend bought a new car recently, and he can connect to it from his phone (obviously over the cloud), he was wondering how it works because he didn't have to subscribe to anyhing, but yeah it has cellular connectivity paid for by the car manufacturer...
This would be a great thing to hack to get free internets. =D
Those SIMs usually have very limited bandwidth packages.
Great, make sure you max out that bandwidth with random garbage (preferably to the same endpoints that the telemetry goes to) to prevent your owned devices from exfiltrating your life.
So is this Recall by Microsoft, without having to use Windows? Great!
/s
Did they really get interrupted or did they willingly click into 'Settings' and select 'Reset AD ID'?
Why would a device, monitor or TV or refrigerator, randomly reset it's AD ID?
I believe this is just your stock standard X (formerly known as Twitter) ragebait post.
Congratulations, you fell for it.
It's a shame ragebait is now popping up on this site.
The title text is from the quoted tweet, not the one that's directly linked.
https://twitter.com/snwy_me/status/1847389300687860062
I don't think the "interrupt" part of this is what I find concerning.
apologies for the confusion, i could have linked the first tweet but the further exploration was also interesting
I wonder if they bought these on purpose, or if the monitors were provided by their employer. That looks like an office.
It's hard to sympathize with someone buying one of these in 2024 and then being outraged that it wants to do ad tracking. 'Smart' monitors are so easy to avoid right now, they are all clearly marketed as such and it's still the case that premium 'dumb' monitors are available in every category.