I'm in my early sixties. My longest owned possession died last week. It was a dinner plate from the set that my mom served us with growing up. I still used it every day. I put a butter dish down on it a bit too hard and it shattered. Bringing it to the trash can felt like a funeral procession.
Somewhere along the line I read advice not to let objects become totems. I heeded that over the years and have let things go when they seemed to acquire power over me. But sometimes I wish I held on to a few more things from sentiment if not practicality.
For every quality, well-made object there is a point in its existence where it should be evaluated for a transition from usable item to heirloom --- if one chooses to structure their life to include the responsibility and obligation of caring for heirlooms.
I have a ceramic milk jug of my great-great-grandfather who was a Civil war veteran (alongside his son) which my daughter will take responsibility for when she gets her first home --- it may be that she will donate it to a library or museum --- her choice.
Similarly, I have thousands of books --- my will directs that any which my children do not wish to keep are to be taken to my memorial/funeral service and each person attending will be asked to take at least one, and to relate how they knew me and why they picked the book which they did. (A project for future me is to get acid-free bookplates w/ archival adhesive and apply them to all my books, or maybe I'll just print bookmarks on acid-free paper and put one in each book)
Unfortunately, none of the bikes which I had when I was younger survived/were kept (in particular, the Huffy Wind 15-speed had its frame bent on a rainy day because I was never taught to put your foot on the front wheel to slow down) --- currently have two, a folding Montague Swissbike and a Twicycle --- we'll see how they hold up and if I get a third (lusting for a Helix folding bike).
Lastly, while I don't have the exact bow (Bear Archery Little Bear) which I got for Christmas when I was 10, I bought one like to it for my son when he expressed an interest in archery, so at least he has that.
I love your comment, because you are intentional about where your possessions should go after you are gone, and for sentimental reasons. Others should take note, these discussions and thoughts should take place before death. Otherwise, it'll all end up at Goodwill or similar, without any of the meaning passed down. "This mattered to me, and I hope it matters to you because X."
Also, strongly consider not waiting until death to pass along heirlooms. Give them when you can still enjoy someone else enjoying them, it keeps the memories alive through time. Possessions are fleeting, but we remember how something (or someone) made us feel.
Might make a nice tradition for bibliophiles. Somewhat evocative of the "I was a friend of <the deceased>." from Frank Herbert's _Dune_ which is where I got the idea from --- that and a friend's funeral where his nieces seemed somewhat taken aback by folks such as myself who were in attendance whom they had could not recall having seen before (the only one I had seen previously was a babe in arms at the time, and that didn't seem meet to bring up).
The kids are also supposed to take all the unopened bottles from my liquor cabinet and offer them to the Honor Guard/Chaplain as a thank you, with a request that they use them to drink a toast in my honor at some later occasion.
Man, what is it about these wallets. I am still using one I acquired in fifth grade, it is sort a mess now 30 years later, and people keep giving me wallets to replace it, which I appreciate, but my ratty old wallet still works, and I have sort of grown fond of it after all this time.
A deep and wide orange cast iron casserole pan my grandmother bought after the war back when you needed to get on a waiting list for an item like that because metal just wasn't available in large quantities for homeware yet.
She gave it to me a few years before her death because she couldn't lift it safely any more, and knew I would actually use it and appreciate it. Suffice to say that I still use it frequently, and hope to have it see its centennial jubilee in use.
My dad had a leather stuffed dog he got from his mother when he was a kid. He held onto it for his entire life. When he went to his mother's funeral when she died in her 90s, he brought the leather dog with him and placed it in her coffin -- symbolically to act as a sort of guardian/psychopomp in the hereafter.
It was one of the most beautiful partings with a cherished object I'd ever heard of.
I think maybe it’s not about not letting objects become totems, but about being deliberate and intentional about which, and why.
I have a lot of friends that keep “altars”; collection of objects sacred to them (and objects that are prayers). I think they’re probably right to do so.
I got injured a couple of times in the past few years enough to need crutches to walk on broken limbs and a neighbor gave me her old 100+ year old wood ones. Found them to be way better than the new aluminium ones that they make now. They may not have any padding at all, and are somewhat heavier, but I just found they were more comfortable to use somehow. The foam padding on the new ones causes chafing and absorbs stuff like your hand sweat which gets really gross in tropical countries.
I definitely don't need them anymore but keep them around as a cool antique which I might need again someday and as a reminder that contemporary designs aren't necessarily better... Crazy that they've been in service for longer than anyone alive in my family.
I think in general “padding” doesn’t work as well for human bodies as its popularity implies. It feels more comfortable for the first few seconds but less so afterwards. Usually it puts pressure on soft tissues in a way that cuts off blood flow and nerve function, whereas our body is already shaped and evolved to interact properly with firm surfaces with our own padding and bones in just the right places.
For example, serious long distance cyclists mostly still use old fashioned hard leather saddles, which case a lot less pain and numbness on a long ride than the modern padded ones.
This information is not accurate. Tensioned leather saddles are in no way an aesthetic choice, but a radically different design that is more comfortable. I’m a long distance cyclist and only use Brooks saddles. The entire seat is tensioned heavy leather that shapes to your body over time rather than having a hard molded section with padding over it. See here: https://www.sheldonbrown.com/leather.html
Modern race seats are molded material- plastic or carbon fiber, with a small layer of padding and then a covering. There may be race seats without padding, but most have a little. They have a small amount of padding that is then often used with padded shorts.
Padding works very well to dampen vibrations, without it a body part in prolonged contact with a vibrating hard surface will accumulate trauma pretty quickly and will be out of use. The leather bicycle saddles have a similar effect as the leather is not nearly as hard as the seat post or steel rails it stretched between and it's flexible enough to not pass high frequency vibrations from the seat post to the soft tissue. This is also why leather had been used forever as padding on tool handles.
Yeah, leather saddles also often have an actual suspension with springs. Suspension systems of almost any kind are great for bodies, especially if you can make them not involve overly soft surfaces directly against your body.
I see this quite often with gym equipment. If it's designed poorly no amount of padding helps, while better designed equipment may not even have much more than a rubberised pad for grip.
Mattresses as well. When we moved into our house it came with some furniture, including a bed with a memory foam mattress in the master. After a few days I noticed I was getting back pain and figured it was just from unpacking.
One time I feel asleep in the other bedroom, with our old mattress which was a lot firmer, and I woke up without any pain. Tried a few times on both, and yes, the firmer mattress is better for me.
This summer I went through a lengthy process of replacing one of the cogwheels in my Bosch e-bike motor from 2012. The cogwheel is known to break in this revision of Bosch motors, and an improved replica is available on ebay. This cost me totally around €250. Right after that the brakes had to be replaced probably because of hydraulic liquid leakage which was another €400.
The miracle is that the battery is still chugging along, my guess is that it must be around 70% capacity compared to new. I do realize this was quite a big gamble since who knows how much longer the battery will last.
I wish e-bikes was designed to be more modular and less proprietary so you could easily swap out for example (parts of) the motor and battery for a reasonable sum. As examplified in TFA the frame can last more or less forever and the rest of the parts are changeable and can also last a pretty long time.
Next time I get an e-bike I will probably convert an mechanical bike using a Bafang kit or something like that, since they seem to have more of those traits.
Bosch is a huge company, and attitudes vary across divisions. I've been spending more time than I care about talking with their hydraulics division - Bosch/Rexroth, earlier known as Mannesmann/Rexroth.
Their manic attention to detail is only surpassed by an almost fanatical devotion to documentation and standardization.
They still make replacement parts for 30+ year old designs, and sounded almost apologetic when explaining to me (very patiently) that a critical component for an embedded device manufactured in Western Germany was no longer available, so I had to upgrade the control to the next generation (introduced way back in 2012 or so...).
No sweat - the replacement device could be configured as a drop-in replacement.
The original way you built an e-bike was with a motor hub, wires, some sort of speed controller, and a battery pack. You had to figure out what that all meant in practice for your frame of choice but there were several forums for bikes that could help. I’m sure all that is on Reddit now as well.
Framework is solving the “I’d like something modular but slicker than a Clevo and with a support line that is willing to go a bit further than selling an ODM unit to a middle man like Sager.”
If you don’t know who Clevo is but you know who Framework is, that means Framework’s plan is winning.
For E Bikes there are a couple big brands with good support and some boutiques that will take care of you. The big box store stuff using Bosch parts are more of a Wild West.
We have most of those, but they're high-level abstractions (voltage levels, Vulkan), so you need bulky translation layers (shims, drivers) to interoperate with the hardware.
What I really want is detailed schematics, ideally machine-readable, so I can attach things together at the lowest level that my use-case requires, while still able to use high-level interfaces if I need to.
When two devices that naturally speak the same, simple wire protocol have to interoperate via USB-C because of regulations, I cry a little. This isn't how things were meant to be, and isn't what the regulations were meant to achieve.
There already are ebike conversion kits like that. The problem is they generally aren’t legal since they aren’t capped at a certain speed. And the battery packs have a history of exploding in flames
I had a mid-drive ebike and while it definitely shined on the extreme hills found in Seattle, i think my next ebike is gonna be a wheel hub motor type and just be really over-powered. Trying to change gears while under power or applying power too early after a shift was super annoying and constantly caused the chain to slip off and made terrible clunky noises.
I think front hub motor + internal geared hub on back + belt drive is the ideal bike for me. Only downside is not getting to do power wheelies :)
Never had a similar experience with a mid-drive. I’ve found every bike with a hub motor I’ve tried disappointing on hilly terrain or with a lot of start/stop and if you only cycle on flat what’s even the point of having an ebike? (Assuming it’s one that’s legal in Europe).
A Europe legal hub drive is gonna be super weak. My hub drive isnt technically legal but cops literally can’t be bothered to do their basic jobs these days in the US so it’s not like I’m ever gonna get caught
I am 70 and still have the bike my father bought me when I was 14. I ride it every day. The only original parts are the frame, the rear brake post, and the head bearing nut.
I'm in my 40s and still ride the bike given to me by a friend in childhood as my primary bike. Everything besides the (slightly modified) steel frame has been swapped out numerous times.
I enjoy working on my bikes as they're fairly standard as far as parts go. Swapped the original 26" tires for 640Bs, removed front derailleur for more rear gears, changed hand bars, etc. The bike has grown and changed along with me through the years.
I still use the alarm clock that I was given when I was 11. The iPhone alarm will sometimes just go off silently (I've watched it happen), which is my most hated "feature".
When I moved to Sweden in 1998, I bought an radio alarm clock with a wire to plug it in and big red numbers. Big softly glowing red numbers. Easy on the eyes. I got a little discount because the cover for the battery was missing and I was a poor student at the time. But because it was going to be plugged in, I did not care about having a battery. I've since moved country four times but this thing is still next to my bed. I love being able to glance at it at night with a half open eye and know what time it is. That's it's only function. I don't use the alarm very often and if I do, I use my phone for that. And I haven't listened to the radio in well over ten years. It's the clock that is important to me.
> iPhone alarm will sometimes just go off silently
Oh man, as a recent android to iOS convert I thought I was just doing it wrong. The alarm feature of this phone is utterly useless it’s so unreliable. It just decides randomly (from what I can tell) to silence itself with no user interaction. Luckily it hasn’t resulted in major life consequences yet, but I’ve learned to not even bother with it.
Thanks for returning a tiny bit of my sanity!
Whichever programmer or team was responsible for this “feature” that decides you know better than me, why?!?
My current conspiracy theory is it’s the wearables team since then only way to be certain you will at least get some physical/audible feedback it’s time to wake up is by wearing your Apple Watch to bed. Then you get to deal with frantic charging it before your flight or whatnot, fun times!
After my wife stole (back) her high school alarm clock I wasn't satisfied with the replacements. But I picked up an old one for $0.25 at a market festival recently and am pretty happy with it.
I recently had my alarm clock I was given when I was a teenager fail on me, 30 years later. Even when plugged in, it occasionally turns off. Got a few good decades out of it, though.
Always these pesky capacitors (I had like 3 LCD monitors with a faulty capacitor from prolonged use, it is somewhat of an easy fix, no need to throw away the whole monitor).
I've been an iPhone user since 2016, Android before that. After the first few times I encountered the silent alarm problem, I would make sure to unmute the phone before bed, and also max out both the alert volume control and media volume control, simply tanking the sound of the alerts during the night hoping that the alarm would work. Even doing this, I would still watch the alarm go off silently.
I'm convinced that this was one of the reasons that the sleep schedule app was created, because they wanted to see if a different team wouldn't introduce the same bug.
The legendary Gazelle Toer Populair. Produced since like forever, the classic Dutch bicycle. Guess who is also happy with his Gazelle since many years? Yep, this Dutchie living in Munich, Germany.
I bought a second-hand Gazelle in 2003 (for €125 lol), it was briefly stolen in 2010, it moved with me to three different countries, and I'm still using it to this day.
I got at least 21 years of use out of a €125 purchase, I'm sure it must be the single best thing I've ever bought.
My grandfather is still riding his father's bike. I'm not kidding, I don't even know how that bike still manages to remain in one piece. FYI, grandfather is 87, the bike is definitely about the same age
Funny that they make an article about this. My grandpa bought his steel frame Diamant race bike at age 14, and is now 82. He doesn't use it for longer trips or when using his trailer (he has an ebike for that) but short trips like to the trains are still riden on it.
We've been in the mid manufacturing era for quite a while, when every part is engineered to fail the day after the warranty expires. Maybe the idea of a bicycle that can last seven decades is interesting to people.
Why would a modern bike fail when the warranty expires? If you want a bike that lasts 70 years you either need to be fine with not having much more effective brakes/gearing or just do regular maintenance on it.
There are plenty of products (eg. especially cars) that are much, much more reliable than their older counterparts.
I’m not sure I agree with the entire premise. Maybe it’s true about the cheapest bikes but that’s because bikes used to be considerably more expensive on average.
If you’re willing to pay the same (inflation adjusted) I think the overall quality is considerably better than 30+ years ago.
They should be limited to give assistance up to 25 kph, but many are illegally modified. It is a problem though, so they are working on new regulations for that.
Requiring the rider to get a special license, force them to ride on the road and not on paths. If you want a motorcycle, then it should be regulated as a motorcycle.
Oh yeah I have a friend who modded his to go faster and he says he's going faster than the cops driving the speed limit while going down a certain hill on a highway and he's in the bike lane and they can't do shit about it but watch him zip by
I still have a t-shirt given to me by my father in 1990. It's a bit threadbare so I don't wear it except around the house, but I enjoy having something that old that I regularly use.
Bikes can last a lifetime, this is a case in point. Imagine how little cost in carbon and energy has gone into this item after its life of use.
Now imagine the same with an automobile. It was a terrible mistake to build a car centric world where we sit in metal boxes to go to massive parking lots with enormous stores to fill our cars with useless crap that lasts a moment in time.
My racing bike lasted about 30 years from my teens till the police destroyed it as a terrorism hazzard. I was cycling past Westminster tube when it started raining heavily so locked it to a post and got the tube not knowing that wasn't allowed around Westminster.
It’s because they have the same time velocity, you don’t notice it. Like when you’re riding in a car and toss a ball up from your lap. The ball is moving at the same speed as you so you don’t even notice its speed since it travels along with you.
I have some Prana pants that I really like, but don't wear too often. Recently someone asked me where I got them and I said, "hmm maybe 5 years ago at MEC." A month later I came across a picture of me wearing those same pants on a fishing trip 16 years ago.
I had a few things I though "when did this got this banged up, I just got it" but it was actually almost a decade old. Usually tools or headphones, rode my QC15 for 7 years before upgrading.
What do you expect. It's a Gazelle. Last year I bought a second hand Gazelle Champion road frame that is my age and built it up with parts that at least look period correct, even though they're not necessarily. It's a joy to ride.
It's not a broom¹ you know. She won't be replacing the frame, pedals, and handlebar any time soon. In terms of both mass and volume that accounts for most of the bike already. for bicycles the identity seems to be tied to the frame mostly.
I am surprised that Gazelle is still such a strong brand and is made in the Netherlands. And also that, in general, bicycle manufacturing is resilient within the whole EU, despite the rising costs people rightfully complain about.
It is still a strong brand among the middle-aged and older population. It is now owned by Pon Holdings, and Gazelle has been in trouble in the last 20 years, with multiple reorganizsations. Road bikes and mountain bikes have completely gone as a result. Other companies under the Pon umbrella still offer road bikes and mountain bikes, even sponsor pro teams.
Don’t most European manufacturers just buy frames from Taiwan or even China and just combine them with Taiwanese/Chinese/Malaysian parts from SRAM/Shimano? I don’t think a lot of manufacturing is actually done in Europe.
I have an e-bike and it’s enabled me to cycle on steep inclined and hilly roads that I would be unable to do otherwise. Having an e-bike encourages you to cycle a lot more than you typically would imo. I use it as my primary form of transportation.
I’m just surprised that people continue to use old bikes when the newer technology around them has continued to improve.
The quoted study does not mention fitness. It does find (1) physical activity level increases of e-bike vs bike riders is similar. (2) e-bike riders ride farther than conventional bike riders.
From the linked study:
> E-bikers take longer trips by e-bike and bicycle, compared to cyclists.
> Physical activity gains from active travel are similar in e-bikers and cyclists.
The second point is non-obvious IMO and interesting.
The first point makes sense though IMO. AFAIK the majority of pedal bike trips are short ranges. A subset of bike riders travel larger distances. This averages out to be relatively short distances. An e-bike I believe is not attractive for a short distance (why pay the cost when a cheaper pedal bike that you will ride for 10 minutes would do just as well and for a fraction of cost?). I think it makes sense that e-bikes then push that distance-travel average up over conventional bikes.
My main use of a bike is X miles per day to work and back. Shopping trips and some weekend activities add miles, but the baseline is commuting. I'm not particularly athletic. I have some friends who commute on e-bikes, and I'm fully supportive. It's all good.
Switching to an e-bike won't add hours or miles to my baseline. I mention this anecdote only to illustrate that the effect of an e-bike depends heavily on circumstances.
I think a better generalization might be that an e-bike combined with a lifestyle change can result in better fitness. This is where I see the great benefit of e-bikes, and why I encourage my friends to get them.
Just spitballing a number, if the bike supplies 50% of the effort, then a lifestyle change could consist of increasing your use of a bike by 2x or more. This is not implausible because a lot of people get virtually no exercise at all.
Oddly enough the most frequent question I get about cycling is: "When are you going to get an e-bike?"
I think there will always be a few remaining uses for a bike that is cheap, maintainable by the owner, light enough to carry up a stairs or throw into a car, can be stored anywhere, indefinitely, and used on demand, doesn't catch fire, and is powered by the lipids stored in your body. ;-)
I did a study, informal, involving sitting at a cafe watching the bikes go by for 30 mins and the ebike riders were definitely in worse shape than the regular bike riders. That said I ride an ebike - nothing's perfect.
I wonder how much that is biased by the people who buy pedal assist ebikes. They're still expensive enough for most people that it requires a certain amount of cycling enthusiasm to buy one.
Yeah, I found buying one, though it was very expensive, to be worth it, because I started getting a lot more exercise than I would have without it. I don’t need to carry cargo or passengers very often :)
> studies have shown that people who use e-bikes (pedal assist not throttle) tend to be more physically fit and active than ones who just use regular bikes.
I read the abstract of the study you linked, and it does not say that people who use e-bikes are more fit than people who use regular bikes.
It says that e-biker have slightly less "metabolic equivalent task" minutes per week compared to cyclists.
Hehe I guess it greatly depends on the kind of group of people you test it on. There are a lot of people that buy these comfortable e-bikes with fat wheels and big seats, not because they're sporty, but because they're lazy and want comfort. And often you can also see it from their weight.
> I’m just surprised that people continue to use old bikes when the newer technology around them has continued to improve.
Newer technology is not necessarily always better. A lot of the e-bike utility derives from having a working motor and battery. Those two are probably the most expensive fragile items in a bike. Good luck dealing with the fire when your battery explodes. Good luck getting home when your battery goes flat and you have to ride a heavier bike home and you are in the middle of nowhere because with a working battery you can. Oh, yes let's a buy a backup battery and increase your bike costs. Good luck getting a new battery when your bike supplier dies.
> having a working motor and battery. Those two are probably the most expensive fragile items in a bike.
As an example, a replacement battery pack for the e-bike model I bought is 25% of the price of the bike. I'd assume the motor and other electronics would ring up to another 25%. Since I bought a cargo e-bike, there's really no meat motor bike to compare the remaining price to see how it aligns.
I was actually referring to regular bikes not e-bikes in my last point, your quote, but I agree with everything you said. There are definitely disadvantages to e-bikes
> Good luck dealing with the fire when your battery explodes.
Any data available for how often that happens? I have never heard of a single instance, nor it even being a risk even.
> Good luck getting home when your battery goes flat and you have to ride a heavier bike home and you are in the middle of nowhere because with a working battery you can.
Indeed the 'stranded with a heavy bike' was a problem. Less so now that e-bike ranges are 60+ miles.
> Oh, yes let's a buy a backup battery and increase your bike costs
I don't think this makes sense. Have you heard of this as common? Do you know any manufacturers who recommend this? The shelf life of batteries is years and years. A replacement would be idle..
> Good luck getting a new battery when your bike supplier dies.
Bikes are relatively simple. Happily the wiring can be redone if need-be to retrofit to something new
You are confusing the people who you think use ebikes vs the ones who are actually using it. I'm not sure about the future but ebike riders are generally people who would never bike to begin with or who couldn't do the trip ahead of them with a normal bike.
And if a previous bike user switches to ebikes, generally they would have been considering another alternative instead (e.g. Motorbike, car, public transport, etc.)
After spending last week at a house right off the boardwalk in Newport Beach I’d have to disagree here. I probably saw well over a hundred e-bikes zoom by during my stay and would say that most were either teenagers/young adults or people in their 30s to 50s that seemed perfectly capable of riding a standard bike.
(As someone who rides a regular, non-electric bike daily, and has no desire to switch to an electric one) on the other hand, electric bike is strictly better than driving a car, or just staying at home. Perfect is still the enemy of good.
What makes you think e-bikes would cause anyone to get out of shape?
I don’t have one yet, but I’ve seen a dramatic increase of older people cycling up canyon roads on pedal assist e-bikes. They can do rides with e-bikes that they otherwise couldn’t, and they can go further and/or longer. I’m certain I’ll replace my all-mechanical cycle with an e-bike at some point, and I think it will help me stay in shape and continue to enjoy long-distance cycling as I age.
In town, people are replacing car trips to the store and the pub with e-bike rides. That’s both more active, and better for the environment, than car or motorcycle trips, no?
Not only that, as a cyclist, it’s been helpful to have more and more riders representing the need for bike lanes, bike safety, and bike awareness.
I don’t see any major downsides to the e-bike trend, and there are a lot of upsides. It seems universally great to me.
I don't think I have ever met a single person riding a bike that was "out of shape", maybe it's purely anecdotical but I feel like if you ride a bike regularly you are already in a "good shape" and e-bike will not change that.
From what I see in Paris, people are just using them more or for longer trips which is probably net-positive in the end, both for them and the planet
I'm utterly out of shape but use the bicycle for trips within my city (that I can't walk). It's just that that's only a few times per week and it's hardly strenuous, so it's not nearly enough exercise on its own.
> Ebikes enable trips that are a bit too far on a normal bike and so enable more fitness
Just because an ebike can go further does not mean they are mostly used in that way. The proper thing to say is that bikes enable unfit people to go further than they could with a normal bike. Most fit people can cycle distances that ebike readers wouldn't do even if the bike can do it. How many people travel across cities with an ebike?
> Most fit people can cycle distances that ebike readers wouldn't do even if the bike can do it. How many people travel across cities with an ebike?
What types of distances are you thinking of? 'Most fit people's feel is a bit ambiguous since we are likely speaking about less than one third of the population (at least in the US).
Cross town trips seem to be a place where e-bikes shine IMO. At least gauging by the anecdata that e-bike commuters in the last 15 years have gone from rare to occasionally to the majority of bicycle commuters (at least on many days, and along my commute route, that is not the best connected and is at least 6 miles one way)
I fully agree in many situations that is the case. Oddly enough, there is a curve where when ranges get far enough, pedal bike is what you want again. Eg: 35+ miles one way (ie: past the 90% range of an e-bike). That number will keep going up though as batteries get better and lighter. For most people, that tidbit is irrelevant, but IMO an interesting niche datum from bike culture.
What exactly are you disagreeing with? I'm postulating essentially infinite time (no upper bound on either time or distance) and finite battery. Which is more real world compared to infinite battery and is why I said when distances get long enough. If you want to flip the criteria to make your disagreement, sure.. My point is that there is actually no upper bound to distance (which implies more time than normal), and at a certain threshold the e-bike is no longer what you want because the battery runs out. If you want to say there is a hard upper bound for either time or distance, sure - but there isn't such an upper bound.
In practice, those that would go more than 70 miles round trip on a bike is a very limited number of people to begin with. Even given infinite battery and/or infinite time, it's just not a lot of people. Hence why I think the 'more than battery distance' aspect is not well appreciated. A car centric culture would just not even consider such distances as an option at all. Hence the perspective IMHO that going for more than 90 minutes is just a non option for everyone, even though it is.
My experience riding with e-bikes is how and why I come to say this. They simply can't do a century plus ride. For extreme distance rides (inter-state) - even more so. At those points, non motor is better. I've met just one person doing a tour on an e-bike (that is way less than 1% observed). While that is anecdata, it greatly contrasts with the ballpark 40% to 80% cyclists I observe commuting via e-bike vs non assist pedal bike.
You are a fanatic. Nothing wrong with that but it isn't 'most people' are going to do something else at those distances.
time matters for most people. Thus what matters is how far they can get in about half an hour. It doesn't matter if we are talking about walking bikes, cars, helecopters: how ever far you get in half an hour matters.
Perhaps we agree? I pretty much entirely agree with you - just adding some extra color.
I am of course explicitly not talking about most people. Which is my point - at greater ranges fewer people would be willing to bike, but e-bikes enable larger ranges, but at a point it flips back to non-assist.
30 minutes. Time is the correct measure of distance in most cases, not something like km or mile. If it takes too long to get there I'll go by some other mode.
sure fanatics will bike 100 mile, or some such, but the rest of us have lives to live and we don't have time to waste getting places. The destination is the point. That an ebike get us there in reasonable time is important, exercise is a nice side benefit.
Hard disagree. I own an ebike, which I drive in "eco" mode most of the time. After 25kph there's a hard cutoff, meaning I only drive a very heavy bike.
I also live on top of a hill, and an ebike has greatly increased my will to commute, especially when cycling home after gym.
The problem is regulation. Any bike that has a throttle, or isn't capped to 25kph should be illegal to drive without registering it as a motor vehicle. Yet I've never seen anyone actually enforce this.
The oldest possession I have is a book titled Programming QUICKBASIC 4. It was published in 1989 and must have gotten it around 1990. I had an older book titled Programming GW-BASIC, which must have been from around 1987/1988, but it started to fall apart about a decade ago and since I can't find anymore, I must have thrown it out...
I just bought a Lectric brand cargo e-bike. The family loves it for riding to school and nearby trips. The e-bike concept is sound.
The bike itself though has been constant issues, like the front bearing wore out in 50 miles because they didn’t add enough grease and the tires aren’t rated for the weight the bike says it is. So avoid that brand!
How has it not been stolen yet? (Edit: Just finished reading the article! How has it only been stolen once? ;)
When I moved to Amsterdam, my first bike (which I loved!) was stolen in a month. My Dutch acquaintances were not surprised. Getting your bike stolen, way of life...
Depends on both location and how you secure it. Amsterdam, Utrecht, Rotterdam, The Hague; yeah, it will get stolen at some point. The rest of the country? Should be fine as long as you always (always) use a cable lock (like those which slot into the regular rear wheel lock) to affix to something unmoveable like a light post, the bicycle stand, or a railing of some kind. Also, don't have an e-bike or something fancy like a VanMoof.
I recently bought an ebike and realized as I bought it that I was buying a bike that had a limited lifespan because I won't be able to replace the batteries once they stop making that model
it cost more than 4x my regular bike and that was at 45% of its list price because it was used
Batteries can be refurbished with new cells; a family member had a technician recently did this with an e-bike that was bought more than 10 years ago. In the process the cells chemistry was also changed, which means we have a new charger.
In America "cheap" has been given a negative connotation because we're expected to consume excessively and replace things that still work. But keeping something this long if it's still working is more reasonable.
Fun part is I used cheap just as I expect any person in US would. I consume HN and loads of US centric media as basically we could play “We all live in America, America is wunderbar” by Rammstein.
Because Dutch, Scottish or area of people I live nowadays frugal nature has negative connotation.
I’d say having bicycle for so long is impressive but at the same time it is not really worth it if you can get a new one supposedly better spending less than quarter of your monthly income.
I've worked on old and newer bikes. I ride a steel frame bike, that I built up from old parts.
It's hard to define the quality of a bike. Bikes are like an "ecosystem" that depends on dealers and at least modestly knowledgeable users, and a continuing supply of spare parts. It's not surprising that the longest-serving bikes are in countries with a strong cycling ecosystem.
A new bike made by a reputable brand like Trek is likely to be of very good quality, and benefits from some improvements in materials that have occurred since 1949, such as aluminum wheels and puncture resistant tires. If it receives light-duty service, such as commuting and shopping, and is proactively maintained, it can last forever.
The main threat to a decent bike is neglect. Also, "sportive" use of a bike, such as racing or off-road, brings its own list of issues, including obsolescence. The Dutch are deservedly famous for their bike culture, but their typical use is a few miles per day on well maintained roads and paths.
Especially with the latest trend. I read somewhere many bicycle manufactures are now making models that are close to impossible to repair by a "regular" person.
For the "Ship of Theseus" comment by @ytss:
35 years ago, by first good bike got hit by a car and I had to replace the frame. I took parts from it and put it on a new frame. After 2 decades that frame cracked, un-repairable.
So on my current ride, all that is left is the original bike are the break levers and break fittings and racks. Can that be considered still the original :)
What do you mean by that? Unless it’s an e-bikes most modern bikes are extremely standardized and IMHO generally better quality than older bikes (unless we’re exclusively talking about fixed gear steel frame ones)
I do not remember the details, I saw a blurb on a bicycling site that manufactures are starting to create bikes that regular people cannot repair.
I think I heard the following over the last couple of years:
* a kind of automatic gear shifting, but very lite weight
* Cables are somehow routed through the frame
* I thought I heard there is a shifter that no longer needs cables.
* And I know about tubeless tires.
* I did hear about using Mars Rover tires for bikes, that should great, but last I heard they were very expensive. Not sure if they hit the general market yet.
All of that to me points to a very complex system.
Thankfully. Azor (NL) and Achielle (BE) to name just two brands available in the Netherlands today. My Achielle is over ten years old now and requires only minimal maintenance. It's also one of the few brands with 70cm frames in their line-up! Great for tall people.
They do. I have an Achielle Craighton transport bike (with the double horizontal bar). I actually have a photo of it on Wikimedia Commons because I needed it to illustrate a type of bicycle stand:
My wife rides an Azor with a classic 'cross' frame; these are also known as preacher's bicycles, because it (allegedly) allowed them to ride one in a frock without resorting to a ladies bicycle.
Both frames have a nice bit of heft, which is really great from a traffic safety standpoint because of the stability you have.
Reading between the lines, the frame is one of the only components that has stayed constant over the lifetime of the bike. But then, it's also the one we most strongly associate with the bike's identity.
Definitely, I've had my bicycle for about ten years; after a couple of years I replaced almost everything with parts from the frame I had for about seven years before that. I don't consider that I have that bicycle any more, and I would say that I have the same one now that I bought rideable, even though I didn't keep any moving parts from it.
> Most cyclists experience some knee pain over the course of their riding career. A systematic review and various studies report the incidence of knee pain ranging from 36% to 62%[1] [2]and it is the second most reported overuse injury for cyclists
Yes. The article you linked discusses overuse injuries in professional/semi-professional cyclists. In other words, people who compete and train rigorously as cyclists for sport, and who are expected to regularly push their bodies to their absolute maximums. That's why it uses terms like "riding career" and includes references to studies performed on professional athletes. I don't know if you are or have ever been a professional athlete, but that kind of activity is nothing like that described by the OP, which is about a woman who rides a bicycle as part of daily life, like for going to school or to run errands.
Hypothetically, cyclists could be more likely to have chronic knee injuries than they are to have other chronic injuries, but also still be less likely to have chronic knee injuries (and chronic leg injuries in general) than the more stationary general public.
I'm in my early sixties. My longest owned possession died last week. It was a dinner plate from the set that my mom served us with growing up. I still used it every day. I put a butter dish down on it a bit too hard and it shattered. Bringing it to the trash can felt like a funeral procession.
Somewhere along the line I read advice not to let objects become totems. I heeded that over the years and have let things go when they seemed to acquire power over me. But sometimes I wish I held on to a few more things from sentiment if not practicality.
For every quality, well-made object there is a point in its existence where it should be evaluated for a transition from usable item to heirloom --- if one chooses to structure their life to include the responsibility and obligation of caring for heirlooms.
I have a ceramic milk jug of my great-great-grandfather who was a Civil war veteran (alongside his son) which my daughter will take responsibility for when she gets her first home --- it may be that she will donate it to a library or museum --- her choice.
Similarly, I have thousands of books --- my will directs that any which my children do not wish to keep are to be taken to my memorial/funeral service and each person attending will be asked to take at least one, and to relate how they knew me and why they picked the book which they did. (A project for future me is to get acid-free bookplates w/ archival adhesive and apply them to all my books, or maybe I'll just print bookmarks on acid-free paper and put one in each book)
Unfortunately, none of the bikes which I had when I was younger survived/were kept (in particular, the Huffy Wind 15-speed had its frame bent on a rainy day because I was never taught to put your foot on the front wheel to slow down) --- currently have two, a folding Montague Swissbike and a Twicycle --- we'll see how they hold up and if I get a third (lusting for a Helix folding bike).
Lastly, while I don't have the exact bow (Bear Archery Little Bear) which I got for Christmas when I was 10, I bought one like to it for my son when he expressed an interest in archery, so at least he has that.
I love your comment, because you are intentional about where your possessions should go after you are gone, and for sentimental reasons. Others should take note, these discussions and thoughts should take place before death. Otherwise, it'll all end up at Goodwill or similar, without any of the meaning passed down. "This mattered to me, and I hope it matters to you because X."
Also, strongly consider not waiting until death to pass along heirlooms. Give them when you can still enjoy someone else enjoying them, it keeps the memories alive through time. Possessions are fleeting, but we remember how something (or someone) made us feel.
I love the book idea. I might copy it.
Thanks! I'm flattered.
Might make a nice tradition for bibliophiles. Somewhat evocative of the "I was a friend of <the deceased>." from Frank Herbert's _Dune_ which is where I got the idea from --- that and a friend's funeral where his nieces seemed somewhat taken aback by folks such as myself who were in attendance whom they had could not recall having seen before (the only one I had seen previously was a babe in arms at the time, and that didn't seem meet to bring up).
The kids are also supposed to take all the unopened bottles from my liquor cabinet and offer them to the Honor Guard/Chaplain as a thank you, with a request that they use them to drink a toast in my honor at some later occasion.
Not sure how many pieces it broke into but it could have been a quite interesting project of kintsugi.
My longest held possession is my wallet. My mom got it for me at the dollar store when I was 5, I still use it at 32.
My mom died when I was 20, so I've had this wallet for a few years longer than I ever had with her.
Man, what is it about these wallets. I am still using one I acquired in fifth grade, it is sort a mess now 30 years later, and people keep giving me wallets to replace it, which I appreciate, but my ratty old wallet still works, and I have sort of grown fond of it after all this time.
Mine is probably my wallet as well.
My wife gave it to me about 18 years ago (when we were dating). We laugh about me looking for a replacement, but never do.
A deep and wide orange cast iron casserole pan my grandmother bought after the war back when you needed to get on a waiting list for an item like that because metal just wasn't available in large quantities for homeware yet.
She gave it to me a few years before her death because she couldn't lift it safely any more, and knew I would actually use it and appreciate it. Suffice to say that I still use it frequently, and hope to have it see its centennial jubilee in use.
My dad had a leather stuffed dog he got from his mother when he was a kid. He held onto it for his entire life. When he went to his mother's funeral when she died in her 90s, he brought the leather dog with him and placed it in her coffin -- symbolically to act as a sort of guardian/psychopomp in the hereafter.
It was one of the most beautiful partings with a cherished object I'd ever heard of.
I’m a lot younger but
I think maybe it’s not about not letting objects become totems, but about being deliberate and intentional about which, and why.
I have a lot of friends that keep “altars”; collection of objects sacred to them (and objects that are prayers). I think they’re probably right to do so.
I got injured a couple of times in the past few years enough to need crutches to walk on broken limbs and a neighbor gave me her old 100+ year old wood ones. Found them to be way better than the new aluminium ones that they make now. They may not have any padding at all, and are somewhat heavier, but I just found they were more comfortable to use somehow. The foam padding on the new ones causes chafing and absorbs stuff like your hand sweat which gets really gross in tropical countries.
I definitely don't need them anymore but keep them around as a cool antique which I might need again someday and as a reminder that contemporary designs aren't necessarily better... Crazy that they've been in service for longer than anyone alive in my family.
I think in general “padding” doesn’t work as well for human bodies as its popularity implies. It feels more comfortable for the first few seconds but less so afterwards. Usually it puts pressure on soft tissues in a way that cuts off blood flow and nerve function, whereas our body is already shaped and evolved to interact properly with firm surfaces with our own padding and bones in just the right places.
For example, serious long distance cyclists mostly still use old fashioned hard leather saddles, which case a lot less pain and numbness on a long ride than the modern padded ones.
No racing bike seats are padded. The leather ones are really just an aesthetic choice.
Those fat padded seats only come on those $200 bikes sold to people who don’t ride bikes because it looks more comfortable.
This information is not accurate. Tensioned leather saddles are in no way an aesthetic choice, but a radically different design that is more comfortable. I’m a long distance cyclist and only use Brooks saddles. The entire seat is tensioned heavy leather that shapes to your body over time rather than having a hard molded section with padding over it. See here: https://www.sheldonbrown.com/leather.html
Modern race seats are molded material- plastic or carbon fiber, with a small layer of padding and then a covering. There may be race seats without padding, but most have a little. They have a small amount of padding that is then often used with padded shorts.
Padding works very well to dampen vibrations, without it a body part in prolonged contact with a vibrating hard surface will accumulate trauma pretty quickly and will be out of use. The leather bicycle saddles have a similar effect as the leather is not nearly as hard as the seat post or steel rails it stretched between and it's flexible enough to not pass high frequency vibrations from the seat post to the soft tissue. This is also why leather had been used forever as padding on tool handles.
Padding can have a hard surface on top of it. For most tools, this is unnecessary (you can adjust your grip), but for other things it might matter.
Yeah, leather saddles also often have an actual suspension with springs. Suspension systems of almost any kind are great for bodies, especially if you can make them not involve overly soft surfaces directly against your body.
I see this quite often with gym equipment. If it's designed poorly no amount of padding helps, while better designed equipment may not even have much more than a rubberised pad for grip.
Mattresses as well. When we moved into our house it came with some furniture, including a bed with a memory foam mattress in the master. After a few days I noticed I was getting back pain and figured it was just from unpacking.
One time I feel asleep in the other bedroom, with our old mattress which was a lot firmer, and I woke up without any pain. Tried a few times on both, and yes, the firmer mattress is better for me.
This summer I went through a lengthy process of replacing one of the cogwheels in my Bosch e-bike motor from 2012. The cogwheel is known to break in this revision of Bosch motors, and an improved replica is available on ebay. This cost me totally around €250. Right after that the brakes had to be replaced probably because of hydraulic liquid leakage which was another €400.
The miracle is that the battery is still chugging along, my guess is that it must be around 70% capacity compared to new. I do realize this was quite a big gamble since who knows how much longer the battery will last.
I wish e-bikes was designed to be more modular and less proprietary so you could easily swap out for example (parts of) the motor and battery for a reasonable sum. As examplified in TFA the frame can last more or less forever and the rest of the parts are changeable and can also last a pretty long time.
Next time I get an e-bike I will probably convert an mechanical bike using a Bafang kit or something like that, since they seem to have more of those traits.
Bosch is awful. three different mounting arrangements for the same model motor, seemingly just to confuse.
Ebikes can be repairable, but a lot of the prefab ones are truly awful, intentionally confusing wiring and controllers that are locked down, etc.
Better to build your own, check the endless sphere forums for some good guides.
this thread covers why prebuilt ones are unfixable https://endless-sphere.com/sphere/threads/tons-of-dead-1-2-y...
Bosch is a huge company, and attitudes vary across divisions. I've been spending more time than I care about talking with their hydraulics division - Bosch/Rexroth, earlier known as Mannesmann/Rexroth.
Their manic attention to detail is only surpassed by an almost fanatical devotion to documentation and standardization.
They still make replacement parts for 30+ year old designs, and sounded almost apologetic when explaining to me (very patiently) that a critical component for an embedded device manufactured in Western Germany was no longer available, so I had to upgrade the control to the next generation (introduced way back in 2012 or so...).
No sweat - the replacement device could be configured as a drop-in replacement.
I wish more companies were like that.
Are we in need of a Framework-like company for e-bikes? Or any other industry?
Devices built from the ground up to be modular, not because of regulations, but because of market forces?
The original way you built an e-bike was with a motor hub, wires, some sort of speed controller, and a battery pack. You had to figure out what that all meant in practice for your frame of choice but there were several forums for bikes that could help. I’m sure all that is on Reddit now as well.
Framework is solving the “I’d like something modular but slicker than a Clevo and with a support line that is willing to go a bit further than selling an ODM unit to a middle man like Sager.”
If you don’t know who Clevo is but you know who Framework is, that means Framework’s plan is winning.
For E Bikes there are a couple big brands with good support and some boutiques that will take care of you. The big box store stuff using Bosch parts are more of a Wild West.
What I really want are open standards.
Standard battery inter connectors, software APIs, etc.
We have most of those, but they're high-level abstractions (voltage levels, Vulkan), so you need bulky translation layers (shims, drivers) to interoperate with the hardware.
What I really want is detailed schematics, ideally machine-readable, so I can attach things together at the lowest level that my use-case requires, while still able to use high-level interfaces if I need to.
When two devices that naturally speak the same, simple wire protocol have to interoperate via USB-C because of regulations, I cry a little. This isn't how things were meant to be, and isn't what the regulations were meant to achieve.
There already are ebike conversion kits like that. The problem is they generally aren’t legal since they aren’t capped at a certain speed. And the battery packs have a history of exploding in flames
most controllers can set a max limit for speed, alternately you could just be a responsible user, like with a motor vehicle.
Actually there is a small bike company named Framework that was featured on Gravel Cyclist YT channel two weeks ago.
https://youtu.be/UlXSB5Inr-A
DIY is mostly hub motors (which are just meh..) though? Or is building a mid-drive one actually feasible?
I had a mid-drive ebike and while it definitely shined on the extreme hills found in Seattle, i think my next ebike is gonna be a wheel hub motor type and just be really over-powered. Trying to change gears while under power or applying power too early after a shift was super annoying and constantly caused the chain to slip off and made terrible clunky noises.
I think front hub motor + internal geared hub on back + belt drive is the ideal bike for me. Only downside is not getting to do power wheelies :)
Never had a similar experience with a mid-drive. I’ve found every bike with a hub motor I’ve tried disappointing on hilly terrain or with a lot of start/stop and if you only cycle on flat what’s even the point of having an ebike? (Assuming it’s one that’s legal in Europe).
A Europe legal hub drive is gonna be super weak. My hub drive isnt technically legal but cops literally can’t be bothered to do their basic jobs these days in the US so it’s not like I’m ever gonna get caught
what about something like pinion e-drive system?
that's super cool, i hadn't seen that before. hopefully it becomes more common and the price comes down.
I am 70 and still have the bike my father bought me when I was 14. I ride it every day. The only original parts are the frame, the rear brake post, and the head bearing nut.
I'm in my 40s and still ride the bike given to me by a friend in childhood as my primary bike. Everything besides the (slightly modified) steel frame has been swapped out numerous times.
I enjoy working on my bikes as they're fairly standard as far as parts go. Swapped the original 26" tires for 640Bs, removed front derailleur for more rear gears, changed hand bars, etc. The bike has grown and changed along with me through the years.
I still have my BMX bike that I purchased in 1985 with my hard earned money from working on the tobacco farms as my youth.
I still use the alarm clock that I was given when I was 11. The iPhone alarm will sometimes just go off silently (I've watched it happen), which is my most hated "feature".
When I moved to Sweden in 1998, I bought an radio alarm clock with a wire to plug it in and big red numbers. Big softly glowing red numbers. Easy on the eyes. I got a little discount because the cover for the battery was missing and I was a poor student at the time. But because it was going to be plugged in, I did not care about having a battery. I've since moved country four times but this thing is still next to my bed. I love being able to glance at it at night with a half open eye and know what time it is. That's it's only function. I don't use the alarm very often and if I do, I use my phone for that. And I haven't listened to the radio in well over ten years. It's the clock that is important to me.
> I love being able to glance at it at night with a half open eye and know what time it is.
You mean confirming that the time you already knew it was, was actually correct.
Just like you also wake up 2 minutes before the alarm goes off.
> iPhone alarm will sometimes just go off silently
Oh man, as a recent android to iOS convert I thought I was just doing it wrong. The alarm feature of this phone is utterly useless it’s so unreliable. It just decides randomly (from what I can tell) to silence itself with no user interaction. Luckily it hasn’t resulted in major life consequences yet, but I’ve learned to not even bother with it.
Thanks for returning a tiny bit of my sanity!
Whichever programmer or team was responsible for this “feature” that decides you know better than me, why?!?
My current conspiracy theory is it’s the wearables team since then only way to be certain you will at least get some physical/audible feedback it’s time to wake up is by wearing your Apple Watch to bed. Then you get to deal with frantic charging it before your flight or whatnot, fun times!
For a long time the Android alarm will silence itself randomly; I've replaced it with a $9 Casio travel clock, the battery lasts forever
After my wife stole (back) her high school alarm clock I wasn't satisfied with the replacements. But I picked up an old one for $0.25 at a market festival recently and am pretty happy with it.
I recently had my alarm clock I was given when I was a teenager fail on me, 30 years later. Even when plugged in, it occasionally turns off. Got a few good decades out of it, though.
I'm going to guess that would be an easy and cheap fix if it's just a power issue? Wild guess but perhaps just a capacitor finally got spent
I'm more of a software/econ nerd. Where would I even start if I wanted to repair this?
Always these pesky capacitors (I had like 3 LCD monitors with a faulty capacitor from prolonged use, it is somewhat of an easy fix, no need to throw away the whole monitor).
I once missed a flight because of this. I believe it is (or was) linked to the volume level on the phone.
And yeah, my decades-old alarm clock remains reliable (though it can be a struggle to remember how to set the time after the power goes out…)
I've been an iPhone user since 2016, Android before that. After the first few times I encountered the silent alarm problem, I would make sure to unmute the phone before bed, and also max out both the alert volume control and media volume control, simply tanking the sound of the alerts during the night hoping that the alarm would work. Even doing this, I would still watch the alarm go off silently.
I'm convinced that this was one of the reasons that the sleep schedule app was created, because they wanted to see if a different team wouldn't introduce the same bug.
The legendary Gazelle Toer Populair. Produced since like forever, the classic Dutch bicycle. Guess who is also happy with his Gazelle since many years? Yep, this Dutchie living in Munich, Germany.
I bought a second-hand Gazelle in 2003 (for €125 lol), it was briefly stolen in 2010, it moved with me to three different countries, and I'm still using it to this day.
I got at least 21 years of use out of a €125 purchase, I'm sure it must be the single best thing I've ever bought.
Got a gazelle too after living in netherlands. People do not realise how amazing that bike is. It’s like apple or tesla.
I expected this to be you. read this before seeing the username. great bikes.
My grandfather is still riding his father's bike. I'm not kidding, I don't even know how that bike still manages to remain in one piece. FYI, grandfather is 87, the bike is definitely about the same age
Is it the same bike or the same bike frame? Have the wheels, seat not being changed? People often pin a bike's identity on the bike frame
Even if it were just the same frame, we'd all consider it the same bike.
This reminds me of the Ship of Theseus
[dead]
Funny that they make an article about this. My grandpa bought his steel frame Diamant race bike at age 14, and is now 82. He doesn't use it for longer trips or when using his trailer (he has an ebike for that) but short trips like to the trains are still riden on it.
We've been in the mid manufacturing era for quite a while, when every part is engineered to fail the day after the warranty expires. Maybe the idea of a bicycle that can last seven decades is interesting to people.
Why would a modern bike fail when the warranty expires? If you want a bike that lasts 70 years you either need to be fine with not having much more effective brakes/gearing or just do regular maintenance on it.
There are plenty of products (eg. especially cars) that are much, much more reliable than their older counterparts.
Because it is produced as cheaply as possible to survive the warranty to make most profit.
And when a bike costs more, as a layman, you have a hard time judging if it costs more because of more profit or better quality.
I’m not sure I agree with the entire premise. Maybe it’s true about the cheapest bikes but that’s because bikes used to be considerably more expensive on average.
If you’re willing to pay the same (inflation adjusted) I think the overall quality is considerably better than 30+ years ago.
E bikes are such a legal grey area. Personally I think some of them should be categorized as a motorcycle. Some of em really rip!
In the UK up to 15.5 mph counts as a bicycle, faster is supposed to categorise as a motorcycle. Though people of course ignore that, the the police sometimes try to stop them: https://news.sky.com/story/e-bike-seizures-surge-as-police-t...
The other bad issue is battery fires - quite a few deaths there.
They should be limited to give assistance up to 25 kph, but many are illegally modified. It is a problem though, so they are working on new regulations for that.
What is your goal of categorising it differently tho?
Requiring the rider to get a special license, force them to ride on the road and not on paths. If you want a motorcycle, then it should be regulated as a motorcycle.
What does licence going to achieve?
In UK you are already required to ride on road. What if I wanna ride slow on pedestrian paths and fast on roads?
All of this regulation is just gonna force people into cars.
Oh yeah I have a friend who modded his to go faster and he says he's going faster than the cops driving the speed limit while going down a certain hill on a highway and he's in the bike lane and they can't do shit about it but watch him zip by
I bet they can do something about it.
I still have a t-shirt given to me by my father in 1990. It's a bit threadbare so I don't wear it except around the house, but I enjoy having something that old that I regularly use.
https://archive.ph/DQ2mp
Bikes can last a lifetime, this is a case in point. Imagine how little cost in carbon and energy has gone into this item after its life of use.
Now imagine the same with an automobile. It was a terrible mistake to build a car centric world where we sit in metal boxes to go to massive parking lots with enormous stores to fill our cars with useless crap that lasts a moment in time.
My racing bike lasted about 30 years from my teens till the police destroyed it as a terrorism hazzard. I was cycling past Westminster tube when it started raining heavily so locked it to a post and got the tube not knowing that wasn't allowed around Westminster.
It’s an interesting phenomenon how people go on through life with their belongings and not notice their age.
My wife certainly notices the age of some of her belongings, most notably that of her husband.
It’s because they have the same time velocity, you don’t notice it. Like when you’re riding in a car and toss a ball up from your lap. The ball is moving at the same speed as you so you don’t even notice its speed since it travels along with you.
I have some Prana pants that I really like, but don't wear too often. Recently someone asked me where I got them and I said, "hmm maybe 5 years ago at MEC." A month later I came across a picture of me wearing those same pants on a fishing trip 16 years ago.
It doesn’t help that a lot of modern synthetic fabrics hold up really well until small wear/tear of the fabric suddenly adds up to look tattered.
Also, shopping at MEC 16 years ago was a different time.
I had a few things I though "when did this got this banged up, I just got it" but it was actually almost a decade old. Usually tools or headphones, rode my QC15 for 7 years before upgrading.
What do you expect. It's a Gazelle. Last year I bought a second hand Gazelle Champion road frame that is my age and built it up with parts that at least look period correct, even though they're not necessarily. It's a joy to ride.
> "[...] A few years ago a new dynamo was put on. The previous one was slipping."
That's incredible.
Made me think of the Ship of Theseus https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus but according to the article only a few parts were replaced.
It's not a broom¹ you know. She won't be replacing the frame, pedals, and handlebar any time soon. In terms of both mass and volume that accounts for most of the bike already. for bicycles the identity seems to be tied to the frame mostly.
1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUl6PooveJE
I am surprised that Gazelle is still such a strong brand and is made in the Netherlands. And also that, in general, bicycle manufacturing is resilient within the whole EU, despite the rising costs people rightfully complain about.
It is still a strong brand among the middle-aged and older population. It is now owned by Pon Holdings, and Gazelle has been in trouble in the last 20 years, with multiple reorganizsations. Road bikes and mountain bikes have completely gone as a result. Other companies under the Pon umbrella still offer road bikes and mountain bikes, even sponsor pro teams.
Don’t most European manufacturers just buy frames from Taiwan or even China and just combine them with Taiwanese/Chinese/Malaysian parts from SRAM/Shimano? I don’t think a lot of manufacturing is actually done in Europe.
The e-bike trend will only accelerate getting out of shape while people like this one will stay in good shape much longer.
While having a few advantages, it's not universally great.
Actually, studies (e.g. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S259019821...) have shown that people who use e-bikes (pedal assist not throttle) tend to be more physically fit and active than ones who just use regular bikes.
I have an e-bike and it’s enabled me to cycle on steep inclined and hilly roads that I would be unable to do otherwise. Having an e-bike encourages you to cycle a lot more than you typically would imo. I use it as my primary form of transportation.
I’m just surprised that people continue to use old bikes when the newer technology around them has continued to improve.
The quoted study does not mention fitness. It does find (1) physical activity level increases of e-bike vs bike riders is similar. (2) e-bike riders ride farther than conventional bike riders.
From the linked study: > E-bikers take longer trips by e-bike and bicycle, compared to cyclists.
> Physical activity gains from active travel are similar in e-bikers and cyclists.
The second point is non-obvious IMO and interesting.
The first point makes sense though IMO. AFAIK the majority of pedal bike trips are short ranges. A subset of bike riders travel larger distances. This averages out to be relatively short distances. An e-bike I believe is not attractive for a short distance (why pay the cost when a cheaper pedal bike that you will ride for 10 minutes would do just as well and for a fraction of cost?). I think it makes sense that e-bikes then push that distance-travel average up over conventional bikes.
Sure, there's "studies" but there's also physics.
My main use of a bike is X miles per day to work and back. Shopping trips and some weekend activities add miles, but the baseline is commuting. I'm not particularly athletic. I have some friends who commute on e-bikes, and I'm fully supportive. It's all good.
Switching to an e-bike won't add hours or miles to my baseline. I mention this anecdote only to illustrate that the effect of an e-bike depends heavily on circumstances.
I think a better generalization might be that an e-bike combined with a lifestyle change can result in better fitness. This is where I see the great benefit of e-bikes, and why I encourage my friends to get them.
Just spitballing a number, if the bike supplies 50% of the effort, then a lifestyle change could consist of increasing your use of a bike by 2x or more. This is not implausible because a lot of people get virtually no exercise at all.
Oddly enough the most frequent question I get about cycling is: "When are you going to get an e-bike?"
I think there will always be a few remaining uses for a bike that is cheap, maintainable by the owner, light enough to carry up a stairs or throw into a car, can be stored anywhere, indefinitely, and used on demand, doesn't catch fire, and is powered by the lipids stored in your body. ;-)
I did a study, informal, involving sitting at a cafe watching the bikes go by for 30 mins and the ebike riders were definitely in worse shape than the regular bike riders. That said I ride an ebike - nothing's perfect.
I wonder how much that is biased by the people who buy pedal assist ebikes. They're still expensive enough for most people that it requires a certain amount of cycling enthusiasm to buy one.
These things can cost like decent used cars. We're living in a crazy world.
Yeah, I found buying one, though it was very expensive, to be worth it, because I started getting a lot more exercise than I would have without it. I don’t need to carry cargo or passengers very often :)
> studies have shown that people who use e-bikes (pedal assist not throttle) tend to be more physically fit and active than ones who just use regular bikes.
I read the abstract of the study you linked, and it does not say that people who use e-bikes are more fit than people who use regular bikes.
It says that e-biker have slightly less "metabolic equivalent task" minutes per week compared to cyclists.
Hehe I guess it greatly depends on the kind of group of people you test it on. There are a lot of people that buy these comfortable e-bikes with fat wheels and big seats, not because they're sporty, but because they're lazy and want comfort. And often you can also see it from their weight.
> I’m just surprised that people continue to use old bikes when the newer technology around them has continued to improve.
Newer technology is not necessarily always better. A lot of the e-bike utility derives from having a working motor and battery. Those two are probably the most expensive fragile items in a bike. Good luck dealing with the fire when your battery explodes. Good luck getting home when your battery goes flat and you have to ride a heavier bike home and you are in the middle of nowhere because with a working battery you can. Oh, yes let's a buy a backup battery and increase your bike costs. Good luck getting a new battery when your bike supplier dies.
> having a working motor and battery. Those two are probably the most expensive fragile items in a bike.
As an example, a replacement battery pack for the e-bike model I bought is 25% of the price of the bike. I'd assume the motor and other electronics would ring up to another 25%. Since I bought a cargo e-bike, there's really no meat motor bike to compare the remaining price to see how it aligns.
I was actually referring to regular bikes not e-bikes in my last point, your quote, but I agree with everything you said. There are definitely disadvantages to e-bikes
> Good luck dealing with the fire when your battery explodes.
Any data available for how often that happens? I have never heard of a single instance, nor it even being a risk even.
> Good luck getting home when your battery goes flat and you have to ride a heavier bike home and you are in the middle of nowhere because with a working battery you can.
Indeed the 'stranded with a heavy bike' was a problem. Less so now that e-bike ranges are 60+ miles.
> Oh, yes let's a buy a backup battery and increase your bike costs
I don't think this makes sense. Have you heard of this as common? Do you know any manufacturers who recommend this? The shelf life of batteries is years and years. A replacement would be idle..
> Good luck getting a new battery when your bike supplier dies.
Bikes are relatively simple. Happily the wiring can be redone if need-be to retrofit to something new
You are confusing the people who you think use ebikes vs the ones who are actually using it. I'm not sure about the future but ebike riders are generally people who would never bike to begin with or who couldn't do the trip ahead of them with a normal bike.
And if a previous bike user switches to ebikes, generally they would have been considering another alternative instead (e.g. Motorbike, car, public transport, etc.)
After spending last week at a house right off the boardwalk in Newport Beach I’d have to disagree here. I probably saw well over a hundred e-bikes zoom by during my stay and would say that most were either teenagers/young adults or people in their 30s to 50s that seemed perfectly capable of riding a standard bike.
In the Netherlands it's often kids riding to high school now, who certainly would have used normal bikes in the past.
And once they start with ebikes, I don't expect them to ever switch to mormal bikes anymore.
(As someone who rides a regular, non-electric bike daily, and has no desire to switch to an electric one) on the other hand, electric bike is strictly better than driving a car, or just staying at home. Perfect is still the enemy of good.
What makes you think e-bikes would cause anyone to get out of shape?
I don’t have one yet, but I’ve seen a dramatic increase of older people cycling up canyon roads on pedal assist e-bikes. They can do rides with e-bikes that they otherwise couldn’t, and they can go further and/or longer. I’m certain I’ll replace my all-mechanical cycle with an e-bike at some point, and I think it will help me stay in shape and continue to enjoy long-distance cycling as I age.
In town, people are replacing car trips to the store and the pub with e-bike rides. That’s both more active, and better for the environment, than car or motorcycle trips, no?
Not only that, as a cyclist, it’s been helpful to have more and more riders representing the need for bike lanes, bike safety, and bike awareness.
I don’t see any major downsides to the e-bike trend, and there are a lot of upsides. It seems universally great to me.
I don't think I have ever met a single person riding a bike that was "out of shape", maybe it's purely anecdotical but I feel like if you ride a bike regularly you are already in a "good shape" and e-bike will not change that. From what I see in Paris, people are just using them more or for longer trips which is probably net-positive in the end, both for them and the planet
I'm utterly out of shape but use the bicycle for trips within my city (that I can't walk). It's just that that's only a few times per week and it's hardly strenuous, so it's not nearly enough exercise on its own.
Maybe, but they also are practical car replacements where acoustic bikes aren’t. Nevermind carrying 100kg of kids and stuff in an urban arrow
Now you tell me there are bikes driven by sound?!
Ebikes enable trips that are a bit too far on a normal bike and so enable more fitness.
> Ebikes enable trips that are a bit too far on a normal bike and so enable more fitness
Just because an ebike can go further does not mean they are mostly used in that way. The proper thing to say is that bikes enable unfit people to go further than they could with a normal bike. Most fit people can cycle distances that ebike readers wouldn't do even if the bike can do it. How many people travel across cities with an ebike?
> Most fit people can cycle distances that ebike readers wouldn't do even if the bike can do it. How many people travel across cities with an ebike?
What types of distances are you thinking of? 'Most fit people's feel is a bit ambiguous since we are likely speaking about less than one third of the population (at least in the US).
Cross town trips seem to be a place where e-bikes shine IMO. At least gauging by the anecdata that e-bike commuters in the last 15 years have gone from rare to occasionally to the majority of bicycle commuters (at least on many days, and along my commute route, that is not the best connected and is at least 6 miles one way)
I fully agree in many situations that is the case. Oddly enough, there is a curve where when ranges get far enough, pedal bike is what you want again. Eg: 35+ miles one way (ie: past the 90% range of an e-bike). That number will keep going up though as batteries get better and lighter. For most people, that tidbit is irrelevant, but IMO an interesting niche datum from bike culture.
I disagree. as I said in another comment the correct measure of distance is time and old ebikes generally run out of time budget before battery.
If you are doing a long trip you are right but most people will find some other way to do those trips even if they had infinite battery.
What exactly are you disagreeing with? I'm postulating essentially infinite time (no upper bound on either time or distance) and finite battery. Which is more real world compared to infinite battery and is why I said when distances get long enough. If you want to flip the criteria to make your disagreement, sure.. My point is that there is actually no upper bound to distance (which implies more time than normal), and at a certain threshold the e-bike is no longer what you want because the battery runs out. If you want to say there is a hard upper bound for either time or distance, sure - but there isn't such an upper bound.
In practice, those that would go more than 70 miles round trip on a bike is a very limited number of people to begin with. Even given infinite battery and/or infinite time, it's just not a lot of people. Hence why I think the 'more than battery distance' aspect is not well appreciated. A car centric culture would just not even consider such distances as an option at all. Hence the perspective IMHO that going for more than 90 minutes is just a non option for everyone, even though it is.
My experience riding with e-bikes is how and why I come to say this. They simply can't do a century plus ride. For extreme distance rides (inter-state) - even more so. At those points, non motor is better. I've met just one person doing a tour on an e-bike (that is way less than 1% observed). While that is anecdata, it greatly contrasts with the ballpark 40% to 80% cyclists I observe commuting via e-bike vs non assist pedal bike.
You are a fanatic. Nothing wrong with that but it isn't 'most people' are going to do something else at those distances.
time matters for most people. Thus what matters is how far they can get in about half an hour. It doesn't matter if we are talking about walking bikes, cars, helecopters: how ever far you get in half an hour matters.
Perhaps we agree? I pretty much entirely agree with you - just adding some extra color.
I am of course explicitly not talking about most people. Which is my point - at greater ranges fewer people would be willing to bike, but e-bikes enable larger ranges, but at a point it flips back to non-assist.
What's "too far" on a bike? Covering distance on a bike is almost zero work. It's work if you need to go up.
30 minutes. Time is the correct measure of distance in most cases, not something like km or mile. If it takes too long to get there I'll go by some other mode.
sure fanatics will bike 100 mile, or some such, but the rest of us have lives to live and we don't have time to waste getting places. The destination is the point. That an ebike get us there in reasonable time is important, exercise is a nice side benefit.
Is exercise the only reason to ride a bike?
No, for enjoyment, parking convenience, traffic avoidance, cost, and to be environment friendly :)
Cycling is actually the fastest way to get around NYC and London most of the time if you’re able to keep a consistently high speed
Hard disagree. I own an ebike, which I drive in "eco" mode most of the time. After 25kph there's a hard cutoff, meaning I only drive a very heavy bike.
I also live on top of a hill, and an ebike has greatly increased my will to commute, especially when cycling home after gym.
The problem is regulation. Any bike that has a throttle, or isn't capped to 25kph should be illegal to drive without registering it as a motor vehicle. Yet I've never seen anyone actually enforce this.
If the "e-bike trend" accelerating involves people switching from cars to e-bikes, then I imagine they'll be in better shape, not worse.
The oldest possession I have is a book titled Programming QUICKBASIC 4. It was published in 1989 and must have gotten it around 1990. I had an older book titled Programming GW-BASIC, which must have been from around 1987/1988, but it started to fall apart about a decade ago and since I can't find anymore, I must have thrown it out...
I just bought a Lectric brand cargo e-bike. The family loves it for riding to school and nearby trips. The e-bike concept is sound.
The bike itself though has been constant issues, like the front bearing wore out in 50 miles because they didn’t add enough grease and the tires aren’t rated for the weight the bike says it is. So avoid that brand!
How has it not been stolen yet? (Edit: Just finished reading the article! How has it only been stolen once? ;)
When I moved to Amsterdam, my first bike (which I loved!) was stolen in a month. My Dutch acquaintances were not surprised. Getting your bike stolen, way of life...
Depends on both location and how you secure it. Amsterdam, Utrecht, Rotterdam, The Hague; yeah, it will get stolen at some point. The rest of the country? Should be fine as long as you always (always) use a cable lock (like those which slot into the regular rear wheel lock) to affix to something unmoveable like a light post, the bicycle stand, or a railing of some kind. Also, don't have an e-bike or something fancy like a VanMoof.
I recently bought an ebike and realized as I bought it that I was buying a bike that had a limited lifespan because I won't be able to replace the batteries once they stop making that model
it cost more than 4x my regular bike and that was at 45% of its list price because it was used
Batteries can be refurbished with new cells; a family member had a technician recently did this with an e-bike that was bought more than 10 years ago. In the process the cells chemistry was also changed, which means we have a new charger.
That bicycle is just itching for a subscription model. </sarc>
Well she is Dutch I don’t expect she threw away good bike.
I am not Dutch but I lived there for 10 years.
In my country of origin I live in area others would call Dutch or Scottish so we are also rather cheap.
In America "cheap" has been given a negative connotation because we're expected to consume excessively and replace things that still work. But keeping something this long if it's still working is more reasonable.
Fun part is I used cheap just as I expect any person in US would. I consume HN and loads of US centric media as basically we could play “We all live in America, America is wunderbar” by Rammstein.
Because Dutch, Scottish or area of people I live nowadays frugal nature has negative connotation.
I’d say having bicycle for so long is impressive but at the same time it is not really worth it if you can get a new one supposedly better spending less than quarter of your monthly income.
Why throw a whole bike in the landfill when it just needs a new part?
Low price are great for allowing people to afford a comfortable life, but also really drive a culture that doesn’t value maintenance or repairs.
The story makes more sense if "How am I supposed to get home now?" was asked by the suspect to Goosens, not the other way round.
Except, it’s had 5 new chains, 2 cranksets, 10 seats, 2 rear wheels, 4 front wheels and one frame.
Gazelle have always been known as very reliable bikes in the Netherlands. this is proof. amazing
"We should make her swap bikes every year"
- People who like forced automatic software updates
Its probably better made than a current bike
I've worked on old and newer bikes. I ride a steel frame bike, that I built up from old parts.
It's hard to define the quality of a bike. Bikes are like an "ecosystem" that depends on dealers and at least modestly knowledgeable users, and a continuing supply of spare parts. It's not surprising that the longest-serving bikes are in countries with a strong cycling ecosystem.
A new bike made by a reputable brand like Trek is likely to be of very good quality, and benefits from some improvements in materials that have occurred since 1949, such as aluminum wheels and puncture resistant tires. If it receives light-duty service, such as commuting and shopping, and is proactively maintained, it can last forever.
The main threat to a decent bike is neglect. Also, "sportive" use of a bike, such as racing or off-road, brings its own list of issues, including obsolescence. The Dutch are deservedly famous for their bike culture, but their typical use is a few miles per day on well maintained roads and paths.
Especially with the latest trend. I read somewhere many bicycle manufactures are now making models that are close to impossible to repair by a "regular" person.
For the "Ship of Theseus" comment by @ytss:
35 years ago, by first good bike got hit by a car and I had to replace the frame. I took parts from it and put it on a new frame. After 2 decades that frame cracked, un-repairable.
So on my current ride, all that is left is the original bike are the break levers and break fittings and racks. Can that be considered still the original :)
> impossible to repair by a "regular" person.
What do you mean by that? Unless it’s an e-bikes most modern bikes are extremely standardized and IMHO generally better quality than older bikes (unless we’re exclusively talking about fixed gear steel frame ones)
>What do you mean by that?
I do not remember the details, I saw a blurb on a bicycling site that manufactures are starting to create bikes that regular people cannot repair.
I think I heard the following over the last couple of years:
* a kind of automatic gear shifting, but very lite weight
* Cables are somehow routed through the frame
* I thought I heard there is a shifter that no longer needs cables.
* And I know about tubeless tires.
* I did hear about using Mars Rover tires for bikes, that should great, but last I heard they were very expensive. Not sure if they hit the general market yet.
All of that to me points to a very complex system.
Than a current mainstream bike, yes.
Otherwise there are plenty of framebuilders doing bikes like in the school days.
Thankfully. Azor (NL) and Achielle (BE) to name just two brands available in the Netherlands today. My Achielle is over ten years old now and requires only minimal maintenance. It's also one of the few brands with 70cm frames in their line-up! Great for tall people.
Do they come with steel frame ? Alu has some advantages but is impossible to repair, going right to the bin at first serious crash.
They do. I have an Achielle Craighton transport bike (with the double horizontal bar). I actually have a photo of it on Wikimedia Commons because I needed it to illustrate a type of bicycle stand:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Fixed_bollard_bicycl...
My wife rides an Azor with a classic 'cross' frame; these are also known as preacher's bicycles, because it (allegedly) allowed them to ride one in a frock without resorting to a ladies bicycle.
Both frames have a nice bit of heft, which is really great from a traffic safety standpoint because of the stability you have.
https://www.achielle.be/ and https://www.azor.nl/
Yeah, steel is real.
Reading between the lines, the frame is one of the only components that has stayed constant over the lifetime of the bike. But then, it's also the one we most strongly associate with the bike's identity.
Definitely, I've had my bicycle for about ten years; after a couple of years I replaced almost everything with parts from the frame I had for about seven years before that. I don't consider that I have that bicycle any more, and I would say that I have the same one now that I bought rideable, even though I didn't keep any moving parts from it.
Probably weighs as much as two current bikes though.
Yes, bicycles are not iPhones.
She got lucky with her knees.
Riding a bike your whole life will do that.
Are you sure?
Later edit: From here [1]
> Most cyclists experience some knee pain over the course of their riding career. A systematic review and various studies report the incidence of knee pain ranging from 36% to 62%[1] [2]and it is the second most reported overuse injury for cyclists
[1] https://www.physio-pedia.com/Cyclist%27s_Knee
Yes. The article you linked discusses overuse injuries in professional/semi-professional cyclists. In other words, people who compete and train rigorously as cyclists for sport, and who are expected to regularly push their bodies to their absolute maximums. That's why it uses terms like "riding career" and includes references to studies performed on professional athletes. I don't know if you are or have ever been a professional athlete, but that kind of activity is nothing like that described by the OP, which is about a woman who rides a bicycle as part of daily life, like for going to school or to run errands.
Hypothetically, cyclists could be more likely to have chronic knee injuries than they are to have other chronic injuries, but also still be less likely to have chronic knee injuries (and chronic leg injuries in general) than the more stationary general public.
I would too, except all the bikes I had a special connection with were stolen. I'm so happy for her. Keep on riding, granny!
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